Actually this was very helpful. It sounds like your child is very similar to mine and it helps me to know that people do understand this situation. I know there is no "magic solution" to this very minor problem. We have similar incidents outside of the kitchen and looking back, I could have found a better example to share on this board that would have taken the focus off of food in general....which I know is a hot-button issue for many here. It just happened to be the latest and "freshest" example of the ongoing conflict between good intentions and family rules. It reminds me of the time a relative's kids "washed" her car "just like daddy" as a surprise. They apparently thought daddy used gravel in that bucket....not water. At least I am just out some yogurt starter and not a $2000 body shop bill......

We make cone coffee with boiling water from the stove. She is allowed to grind the coffee, prepare the cones, fill the kettle with water, but is not to start the stove until one of us is there. That is what she did this morning. She prepped but did not start the stove.....this time anyway. It has been a problem in the past. Same with eggs. She saw eggs on the board and fired up the stove for the frying pan. Again, she was not "punished" but dh had a much more serious talk with her about following the stove rule after that incident. It is all related. All of the rules surrounding breakfast prep have reasons behind them. Obviously the safety-related ones are easier for her to understand and clearly easier for others to understand. The planning-related rules are harder for her to grasp and therefore follow. After the first few incidents, we laid out what is allow...feeding the cats, prepping the coffee, getting the dishes, pans, utensils, and silverware out, even getting the ingredients out. The line that was crossed this morning was putting it all together before asking. In other incidents the line was crossed when the stove got turned on.

This is a great idea! There are many many things dd could do unsupervised before we wake up that would be welcome and surprising. I could make a list of 100 (at least). She already has an extensive garden and I have no idea what she planted in it. And she has helped be GREATLY in getting in and tending to our family garden.

I hesitate to respond to this since it is somewhat off topic. But yes, of course plans change, meals get swapped out, we decide to go for ice cream instead of dinner, etc..... No one is going to starve in my house due to this morning's incident. We'll eat the smoothies tomorrow, I will buy new starter, and life will go on perfectly fine. It is not a big deal. But we do have rules to avoid unnecessary disruption of the plans. Dd is in the kitchen almost daily helping me or working on her own projects....after she has asked and is being supervised to a level we are comfortable with. My bigger question is how people (in general) feel about (minor) and repeated "disobedience" in situations in which the child has good intentions. Especially if that child is sensitive.

I actually took myself through this same exercise this morning when I was reflecting on the whole situation. This very scenario has happened a few times now. Despite being asked not to, she has made breakfast and there was no planning/supply problem. While appreciative, both dh and I on separate occasions have reminded her about the rule and asked her to not do this. But I have a hard time calling it "disobedience" and dd is very sensitive so I would never call it that. More like letting her heart get ahead of her head. In dh's case, she used the stove while unsupervised, which is another no-no and he was concerned. So, yes, I would still be irritated. I would never yell or punish over this. We are not yellers and dd is usually corrected with simple discussion, punishment is almost never ever used. But she is very very sensitive and knows when I am not pleased even though I don't say anything. Really, I am just looking for how others would feel i my situation. Not so much an evaluation on our diet, budget, or mental health:)

I don't think it is that unusual to have a tight budget or for one to manage household food so that it gets turned over on a regular basis and little gets wasted. We don't have strict food rules, dd does a lot of cooking, and she did not get in trouble. I think some people are over-reacting a little here. I identified in the first post that this was partially my own fault for not updating the white board. I also indicated in the OP that I feel dd is also at fault because she has been asked repeatedly to not make breakfast (specifically) because we do often run right up to the end of things the day before grocery/CSA/farm day. We are a small family, we have a small kitchen, and we have a small budget....is it so unusual to run low on perishables at the end of a week? I am not really sure where people are getting that I am a purist or that we have a lot of strict rules about food. We do have rules about preparing meals without asking first and I am simply asking for opinions on how upset (or not) I should be when they are not followed.

Thanks so much for the replies so far. As I expected, people run the range of taking issue with it to think I am being a jerk:) Dd really loves to work in the kitchen. She makes dinner for the family once a week (she picks the recipe and does the shopping herself) and therefore is very confident. To be clear, she did not get in trouble this morning nor did I get "angry." But I did tell her that using up the yogurt meant that we were out of starter for the next batch. I think it is appropriate for her to know that because it is true. It is a bit of a conflict. My bad for not updating the board....even though the board is really for my own use only. I will be better about this when I can be. And her bad for not following the house rule of asking before doing in the meal department. Had this been a one time thing, I would not be bothered. Because it has happened many times now, I am getting progressively more bothered. I very much like the idea of setting aside a morning or two where she takes care of breakfast by herself. The timing of that day or two could even mean she could pick what she prepares and I can plan to use the other ingredients different days. I know she would like the whole thing to be a total surprise but that might be a good compromise.

I have a small but reoccurring problem with my 9yo dd and want to know if others would have a problem with the situation or if I am just being a jerk. Dd is so very sweet and is always looking for ways to be helpful and nice. She especially likes "surprising" her parents by doing things to help around the house.....especially in the kitchen. This is where we have a problem. Money is pretty tight and we eat almost 100% organic/local/whole foods. To make this work, much of what we eat is home-made and I have to keep a very tight food preparation schedule and budget. I have a large white-board in the kitchen that helps me determine when to prep what food for each meal and therefore anyone can look at the board to see what each meal will be each day. Breakfasts usually revolve around local eggs with homemade toast or homemade yogurt/granola/fruit. However, both of these require ingredients that are both finite and/or require advanced prep. So some mornings we have to deviate from what the board says because we are running low on something. An accidentally dropped egg early in the week can change the breakfast meal days later, for example. And someone other than me might not know this. There might be a full container of yogurt in the fridge but only I know that I need it for another meal and therefore might swap out a yogurt breakfast for something else. I also need some yogurt left to make the next batch. There are several similar variations on that theme. I have talked about this with dd and that she needs to ask before doing anything for meals in the kitchen. Despite these discussions, she will occasionally take it upon herself to set her own alarm and get up before us to "surprise" us with breakfast. It happened again this morning. She saw yogurt was on the menu and started the morning stuff. She made the coffee (awesome), fed the cats (awesome), then started making the yogurts. The last part was not so awesome. I had decided last night to pre-make smoothies for a surprise. This used up all but the little bit of yogurt I need to make the next batch. Well, dd spooned that all out and covered it in granola and berries. It was not enough yogurt for even one person (which would have been a clue) but she proceeded forward. So, of course, I was not pleased when I came into the kitchen to see her "surprise." I did not get angry but she knew right away that things got screwed up and feels awful. We have talked and talked and talked about asking before doing. And I realize this could be avoided if I took the time to update the board when there is a change. But often, I do not know there will be a change until that morning when I assess the current food situation. So, now I am peeved. I have had the same yogurt strain going for almost two years and now I have to buy new plain yogurt to use as a starter. I realize this does not sound like a big deal, but it is to me. Plus, we did not eat the smoothies I had already made so tomorrow's breakfast will now also be altered as well. It is such a little thing, but I am irritated. Dd feels bad. Dh thinks I am being a jerk to be upset by this (he does not really understand how much time and thought goes into food prep at our house). Dd and I have already gently talked (again) about why she needs to ask first. I know she gets it but I am also sure it will happen again. She honestly cannot help trying to be helpful. I do not want to kill her helpful spirit. And I will go the extra steps of trying to better record what is going to happen on the white board when possible. I am not really looking for advice as much as wanting to know if anyone else would have had a problem with this situation or if I just need to get over myself. Which leads to the greater general question; should I foster helpfulness even if it is not really "helpful?"

I just took up running for the first time about two months ago. In retrospect, there is no doubt that I did too much too soon. As a result, I have had a whole line of various pain issues starting with abdominal muscles (yeah, figure that out) down to knee and ankle pain. I cannot say that any or all of this will translate to be helpful for the specific problems you are having, but three things I have done has resulted in the elimination of all running-related pain: 1. Getting off the road and onto trails. This lessens the pounding of my entire body so I can run more frequently and further than I can on road/pavement. Even a gravel road is an improvement. 2. Ice ice ICE. I have been icing for 20 minutes a few times each day on the problem areas. 3. Stretching. This made the most immediate difference. I had been stretching after running every time but I found that my newly recruited running muscles need far more stretching. On a suggestion from a friend, I started doing yoga at home using the following site: http://www.doyogawit..._classes There are many to choose from, some geared towards runners. I do one of the shorter videos for runners after running and longer videos on non-running days. I have many runner friends and they all alternate running with other activities. Swimming is an excellent choice so you are on the right track there.

Thanks for the help:) This is a whole new things for me and no one in my family or circle of friends deals with it so I needed to get a handle on what is "normal" for the afflicted.

I do love my neti pot. Even though it does not fix things for the whole day, at least I get some relief. I find that I cannot use it more than twice a day or my nasal passages feel a little too "crispy" or "fried." When your meds do not last 24 hours, what do you do for the in-between time? I find the meds wear off about 3 hours before I can take them again. I have tried setting an alarm in the middle of the night so it wears off when I am asleep but it seems that I am not coordinated enough to manage a tiny pill in the dark while groggy. Too many nights of turning on the lights to look for the little pill I dropped. Dh is not amused..... Have you ever discussed long-term use of allergy meds with your doctor? I am concerned about using anything long-term. Makes me nervous....but maybe for no reason. I cannot find anything about problems with long-term use. Have the meds remained effective for you even after years of use?

Thanks! I am going to try this! And i like baths:) As soon as we call it "therapeutic" I get a pass for a nightly evening bath.

The drowsiness is something I worry about. I am happy that the Claritin works at all and does not make me sleepy. But it does not work all the way. I have looked at the others meds but Claritin just happened to be what my husband had in his suitcase when I finally broke down and took something. Since it worked, even marginally, I just stuck with it. Have you noticed a decrease in the effects of the meds over long-term use? Have you had to increase the dose or change after years?

My nose is driving me INSANE. I have never had seasonal allergies before. However, during my entire adult life I have had what I can only describe as an "over active nose." If the sun comes out, my nose runs. If I am cold, my nose runs...which is pretty much all winter. Every single time I get sick, the nose is the first and last symptom and always in overdrive. When I exercise outside and it is below 50 degrees, my nose runs. You get the point. In mid-April of this year it started running all of the time and has not stopped. So, two months now. We have been on several trips and have stayed in other hotels and houses. No change, which rules out my damp, ancient house as the source of the problem (I think). I know it is "allergy season" although I cannot really say I know when that really begins and ends. I am just assuming it is allergies even though this season has never been problematic before. I started taking Claritin and it really took the edge off. This further convinced me that it must be allergies. The Claritin seems to take a few days to really start working. It does not eliminate the runny nose completely but does allow me to do things without having to have a tissue in my hand all of the time. I have tried going off of it twice now and at first it seems like I am fine....but after a few days I am back to constant running, so I have started it back up. I am currently on the third try going off and sure enough, three days later, I am a mess. I have no other symptoms. No itchy eyes, no secondary sinus issues, etc...... I try to avoid taking meds of any kind so this Claritin thing really bugs me. While I cannot find anything that says long-term use of the stuff is really bad for you, it seems to me that as soon as you start tinkering with the body it stops doing what it is supposed to do naturally. And really, should anyone be taking something like this every single day for months at a time? I cannot really find any "natural" way to try and fix this problem. I have been using a neti pot twice a day. It gives me temporary relief but nothing long-term if I am off the Claritin. I even went to my chiro who did not find anything out of whack. So, I have questions for any allergy experts out there. 1. Anyone know if taking allergy meds long-term is a bad idea? Can I just pop a Claritin every day forever and be OK? 2. Are there other do-it-yourself methods I could try to get relief? I am willing to try just about anything at this point. 3. Is there anything a doctor can really do other than prescribe the same meds I am taking already? I am between doctors right now and we have very bad HD insurance.....meaning any testing or specialist is going to be out of pocket....which is not an option right now. 4. Are there long-term issues with having un-medically-addressed allergies. Is this just an annoyance or something that I should be more concerned about? 5. Is it possible this is not an allergy but something else?

I'll also say to stick with what works. If it isn't broken..... But, I am using it for my rising 5th grader and she has had no problem with the wording. It is very specific, which is why there are so many words. This is good for my 5th grader. She needs things spelled out very carefully or else does not seem to know what to do. I was concerned after reading on here because my dd is not advanced or gifted. And she had never done much independently. She seems to get a kick out of the independence factor and really likes that she "owns" the understanding of the concepts. I am not saying this will be the case for everyone but do know that there are some 5th graders that are using this successfully. She did do WWE 1-4 so she had a good background for WWS.

Thanks to everyone who participated. You have helped greatly! I am going to delete the OP for privacy.

You all have given me a lot to think about. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards giving dd more details, both about my own gut feelings and the actual issues. It could be disturbing but probably necessary and I can keep the detail level down enough to get the point across but not be too graphic. My initial resistance to filling dd in also includes concerns about discretion with other children, including the girl involved. I don't know how much their kids know about the situation, but it is quite public now so I imagine the older ones have to know at least a little bit. I will ask dd to not talk about it and I think I can trust her not to, but it was still a factor. I also appreciated the comment posted about her being old enough to be going places on her own, she really needs to be old enough to know these things. That is a very good point. I think we need to start having a lot more discussions about handling various situations. We live in a lower income area that unfortunately has a great deal of turnover and lots of rentals, so we don't know many of our neighbors or their history/issues/etc..... We have talked a lot about traffic safety, dog safety, and general stranger avoidance, but I guess it is time to discuss the many other possibilities.

This was my first inclination. I just wasn't sure if it was a good idea to do the "just trust me" part when being asked why. I don't want to make it some big mystery that dd will be hell-bent on finding more about, potentially spreading even more rumors amongst the kids.

I probably should have mentioned that we know of other families that have put an end the their kids being involved with this family and any attempt to communicate with the parents went very very poorly. I am not opposed to approaching them anyway, but the result will likely be the same in that we will have to explain to our dd what is going on....on some level anyway.

Thanks to everyone who helped me sort this out. I have deleted for privacy. Thanks!!!!

There is a chance the kids had lunch at home but are fishing for different or "better" food at your place. This happens a lot with dd's friends....also 9 yo. I am close friends with the parents of two of her close friends so we have had candid discussions about this. After a few play dates when the kids tell me they are hungry 15 minutes after coming over "after lunch" I asked the parents about it. Each time, the kid had lunch at home. Kids are smart. They know which houses have the good food or might be more accommodating to a guest than their own parents are at home. Either consider it a compliment or start serving foods that are good but not necessarily special or "fun." Knowing this, I have guided my own kid to NOT ask for food right after arriving anywhere and to eat a substantial lunch at home before playing. If a snack is offered, great....but asking is not cool unless she has been there for a few hours and is legitimately hungry.

I couldn't resist..... Yes, we have a basement. It is a dark, creepy, spider-filled space that is not only cold and damp, but has water running through it....in one side and right out the other. So, not cozy:) We cannot even store anything down there except tires and the litter box. 130 yo houses are just so fun......

Call me a mean parent, but I would stick with the original agreement. Whether or not it was a "gift" is subjective and means different things to different families. I personally would not have made a contract like this with my own kid because she is not capable of seeing the bigger picture yet.....it would have been setting her up for failure unless I was willing to hold her hand the whole time. BUT, I cannot say that the OP is in the same situation. Unless the OP truly feels she was mistaken in how the original plan was laid out, I think she should stick to it. To not do so is more damaging IMO. And if she has concluded that it was a flawed agreement, I think she should explain that, allow her dd to take the trip, and end the conversation there. Constant renegotiations of parent-child agreements is more damaging (IMO) than admitting parental wrong and just having her go.

My dd also struggled with the dictations in WWE4. She eventually got them but it was a slow and painful process. I think the narrations are far more useful longterm and she did not struggle as much with those. I started dd (9yo) on WWS1 a few months ago and we are working through it VERY slowly just to get a feel for it before the 5th grade "officially" starts in the fall. Narration skills are needed right off the bat. Despite my dd's strong narration skills in WWE4, she still finds the WWS1 narrations to be a challenge. Knowing what I know now, if I were in your shoes I would spend a little more time on narration skills before beginning WWS. Take short selections from whatever materials and work your way up to the length and content level found at the end of WWE4. Start with passages your child finds interesting then move to more challenging passages. Learning to narrate from passages that you do not find interesting is an important skill....if a painful one..... I would not worry about the dictations.

Thanks all!