We went straight from FLL4 to AG in 5th grade. It has been a very good transition and a lot more independent.

I also recommend a tattoo/piercing place. Dd was 6 when she got hers done at our local tattoo business. Not only do they use a needle, which is less problematic than the blunt gun, but they also use rings instead of studs so that you can clean the wounds much more effectively. Dd has really sensitive skin so we were set on finding the best possible experience. The tattoo place was a little scary for a 6yo and the HUGE guy who did the piercing looked a little (OK, a lot) rough, but he was a real sweetie and put dd to ease immediately. We did have to bring a copy of dd's birth certificate.

Me too. Dd was very surprised by her findings (so was I) and she was eager to share it.

That is awesome.

Arrangements between adult friends is very different from asking if you can send a 4yo along with an 8yo to a playdate where the parents are not friends/family. In my circle of friends, it is fine to stop by each other's houses or ask to watch each other's kids. It is fine to ask for a younger sibling to tag along and it is OK to say no. It is even fine to invite yourself over for dinner. However, when I step outside of my circle, traditional etiquette applies. I do not invite myself or my kid to someone's house/party/boat/vacation. I can say "let's get the kids together" to open a conversation. I can invite their kid(s) to my house/party/boat/etc.... I can even suggest a regular play date where we take turns hosting. But I should not say "Hey, can my kid come over all day tomorrow to play?" Well, I can, but I don't because it is rude. But at least in that case, a simple "no, we are busy" will shut the conversation down if they do not want to host. The OP's situation is more awkward because she has no "out." She is clearly not "busy" because one kid is coming already. She can say "no" or "my house is not 4yo-friendly" or another response, but they are all more awkward and the asker has made it awkward. Hence, etiquette rules. To avoid that.

Can you give an example of a polite yet truthful response when the answer really is that you do not want to deal with/supervise a 4yo?

Because no one wants/likes to hear "your little 4yo Suzie is really cute but I don't want her at my house." We have etiquette rules to avoid this sort of awkward interchange. You don't invite yourself (or by extension your child/children) over to someone's house so no one has to say "I don't want you (or your child/children) at my house." Obviously, the rules change a little when we are talking about family, close friends, asking a favor, or having a local cultural norm that deviates from this.

Not everyone likes dealing with little kids. I am not comfortable supervising small children that I do not know well. My house is no longer little-kid-friendly and I tend to try to get things done when dd is playing with a friend. If a person knows me well enough to ask to watch (much) younger siblings as part of a package, they already know the answer is likely "no." If a person does not know me well enough to ask, then they shouldn't because it is rude.

In certain situations, I think it is OK to ask. Like if you know the family really well or both siblings are close to the friend or if you state that a babysitter is really what you are looking for AND you are prepared to be OK if the answer is no. To ask outside of those situations is rude. It is the same as inviting yourself (or child/children) to something without prompting. It puts people in an awkward situation. You either have to say no and risk offending the offender or you feel pressured to say yes even if it is not what you really want to say.

Weird. Two 8 yos is a "play date" where my kid is occupied and I can get something done. Two 8 yos AND a 4 yo is me babysitting. I am cool with babysitting if asked outright as a favor and I think 6 hours is plenty of time to deem someone worthy of sitting. But to pass it off as a package-deal-play-date is not cool with me. I have dealt with a family that had a "package deal" rule in their family for playing and birthday parties. Imagine my surprise the first time when dd's friend got dropped off with her 4 yo sister and 2 yo brother to dd's 8th birthday party. I was alone with 10 8-ish yos in my unfenced yard on a busy street PLUS these two little kids. I was so flabbergasted when the mom said that it is her family's "policy" that if one kid goes to a party (or play date, I later learned) they ALL go that I could not even formulate a response. She had driven away before I realized what I gotten myself into. She left the 2 yo's diaper bag! I was so MAD! I spent most of the party trying to keep these two littles out of the road. The 4 yo tried to run away then had a potty accident. We had to cancel some of the activities because I could not manage to run them while taking care of the littles. All of this AFTER we had not invited some of dd's friend's siblings who are closer in age and friends with dd because I felt 10 8 yos was the most I could supervise on my own. This happened again (i know, I am dumb) a few months later when dd invited the girl over for an afternoon of playing. Ironically, the girl was adamant about not including her siblings in their play. When mom dropped them off (again, I had no idea she was going to leave all three until she got here), I told her I was not comfortable keeping all three, she stated her family "policy" again and was prepared to tell her now-teary 8 and 4 yos that the date was off. I relented and let them all stay. Needless to say, dd is no longer allowed to invite this particular girl over. And I told her why. That is the only experience I have had with this sort of thing and all of my friends agree it was weird.

Thanks everyone! I just needed a little perspective. Dd does know how to properly cite sources and many of the other requirements. It is just getting it all into the "required" format that seems more like an exercise in parent patience than in a child's science experience. I very much know and understand how the scientific process is important. We use it for every experiment. I just have apparently drawn the line at the required format and thoroughness that I think is a bit over the top for 5th graders.

Dd is 5th grade and working through Elemental Science Biology of the Logic Stage. She started covering the "Science Fair Project" part a couple of weeks ago. She picked a topic and got to work. AFTER she started, she learned about our area's regional science fair from friends and asked me to look into entering her project. So I did. There are 24 pages of guidelines. For 5th graders. I skimmed a bit and took note of the registration dates. It looked do-able at the time. Dd's experiment is pretty involved and took a long time to do one trial. It took the better part of a weekend. It had to do with exploring how the acid content of soaking mediums affects cooking time of legumes. She had no plans to do more than one, since it took all weekend. So, now, she has the data and I did more reading of the 24 pages of guidelines. As I read, a feeling of dread started. She would be required to do at least three trials. In addition, the display, report, and graphic requirements are not something a 5th grader (at least mine anyway) could do mostly independently. This was going to require a lot of help and a lot of hassle doing things that really have nothing to do with "science" such as messing around with Excel, formatting in Word, dealing with a minimum of five properly cited references, etc..... These are things my COLLEGE students struggle with (I teach engineering classes). I pulled the plug. She will finish the experiment to the guidelines outlined in her curriculum and we will call it good. I am wondering if we have failed somewhere? There are just not enough hours in a day to mess around with something so picky and I am seriously wondering how school children are doing this without their parents doing most of the work. Should my kid be able to do this stuff on her own?!?! She did the experiment herself....picked a topic, did some research, made a hypothesis, designed the experiment, performed the experiment, recorded the results, and is now drawing some conclusions. Left to her own devices, I think she could represent her experiment in a visual and written format that would make sense. But, it would not come close to meeting the "basic" guidelines required for the fair. Even had I known the guidelines before "approving" dd's topic to accommodate the required multiple trials, I still think the formatting part would require far too much parental involvement. Am I crazy?

It is hard for me to do. I cannot stand wasting the water. But if we freeze up from the main line, there will be no water for months. I actually do catch the water (in rubbermaid tubs in the bathtub) and use the water to fill my washing machine, water plants, and flush toilets. But still..... I hear you! And, in our case, we do not run all of the taps. Just one. Our pipes are not freezing inside the house, they are freezing at the split off the main line so no need to run every tap. In the OP's case, I might go ahead and drain the pipes if you are going to be gone. Also see if your water is zoned. You may be able to turn off taps you do not absolutely need until it warms up.

We are currently in a city-imposed freeze order and we all have to run our water to prevent freezing up until April. The city guy who came to our door said to run a "pencil thickness" stream at all times. So way more than a drip. We do get a water credit during these months to pay for it.

Yes, this helps! Thanks! I have a lot to think about......

You all are awesome! Thanks for sharing. I have a lot to think about and work with!

There is so much good info here! Thanks! I have been back and forth with Amy over the last few days and she has been very helpful. I am also looking for advice/experiences from other parents who school similarly to us. I agree that plowing through Latin earlier rather than later does not have any real advantage. Dd's goal (again....she is 10 so not exactly concrete) is to take on another language in high school. Our local university is a very real option for her but also requires college-level work load. I would prefer she be done with Latin before she starts another language....which is why we are looking at starting now. Like your son, dd has many interests and cannot do it all. We do also have the option of just not continuing past a certain point. The other somewhat strange reason I am torn is that we are stumped as to what to do the year we would wait for dd to be 12 (rather than 11) to start the classes. She is not warming up to the idea of taking a year off of Latin. She likes it and is concerned she will lose what she has learned. But we have reached the point where I cannot help her much anymore. And I don't really know what sort of one-year material I could use for her level. My back-up is to find some light translation exercises for her to do in the gap year with some time spent reviewing the conjugations, declensions, and vocabulary she already knows. Our library does have a copy of Wheelock's and I will grab it to see what dd thinks. She is finishing up Latin for Children C right now (which she loves) and I understand it is also based on Wheelock's.

Great. Thanks!

How long do your symptoms last after eating gluten? Do you think and/or suspect that gluten is "damaging" your body in any way? I guess what I am really asking is do you sometimes "cheat" knowing you will suffer the consequences but it is "worth it" to you to have that slice of pizza once in a while? Wow! I am so excited that this might be a possibility! Thanks for sharing. As much as I cannot imagine life without a craft beer here and there, I would love to know what is causing this and that I just might NOT be crazy.

Thanks for the recommendations! I was vegan for many years and the symptoms persisted through that entire period so I doubt it is dairy. We now with little exception only consume raw, local diary....most of which is cultured. But I would like to do a systematic elimination diet to rule out anything that I might be missing.

This is all very helpful! My dd has a pretty solid Latin and grammar background. It is the maturity and/or non-mommy-class aspect that has me a little concerned. She has been homeschooled from day one and I have never employed tests/exams/etc..... She is very responsible and mature for her age but not necessarily gifted. She did take the Latin placement test on their website. The site says a score of 70 or above indicates "readiness" for Latin 1. She got a 92% and had no trouble with the online test format or manipulating it without help. We also travel a lot. Dd is in a travel sport and we will be out of the country for part of the next school year. But we are also quite tech-savvy and have the gear/knowledge for her to access the class as needed. Time zones might be a bigger problem. It looks like your ds is now in Latin 2? Dd likes Latin now and thinks she is interested in continuing it all the way through Latin 4. Keeping in mind that I am dealing with a 10yo who may not really understand what that means or how challenging it could get, I am wary about setting her up for failure in the future. Latin 3 and 4 look pretty intense and might require maturity that a 13/14 yo might struggle with. What is your take on the acceleration so far? Does your son (or you) feel like he is ready to tackle Latin 3 and beyond?

What was your child's Latin and grammar background? Would you consider your child accelerated and/or gifted? Has your child ever taken a non-mommy class before this? Sorry for all of the questions! I am data gathering for figuring out next year's plan.

is it from eating them or from breathing near them? And how long does it take to feel the effects?

This is exactly what I am thinking of doing....as much as I don't want to! Having seen some "success" suggests I need to look at this more carefully and with more of a systematic approach. If I do trace this to something, a 10+ year mystery could be solved. My doctors have never been able to suggest anything other than taking medications. I would have never thought to explore diet until this light-bulb moment. I have been blaming it on my house/pets for years despite the fact that my symptoms are often worse when traveling.....which usually involves beer and bread!

Wow! Thanks so far for sharing! I thought I might be crazy.... I have had awful "allergy" symptoms that have gotten progressively worse over the years. I have been trying to manage it with OTC allergies meds with limited success. I had an epiphany a few days ago when I connected a particularly bad day with having had a couple of beers the evening before. It had been a long time since I had last had beer and we do not eat a lot of wheat/gluten in general. I thought it wouldn't hurt to explore this further. So, I have been experimenting by cutting out all gluten just to see what happens (fully realizing it might not be gluten, but wheat or something else common to beer and other foods we eat). The response has been immediate. No symptoms at all. This could be a fluke as I sometimes have gone for days in the past with no symptoms. Just knowing that others out there have seen or experienced similar situations is another data point int he experiment. I would love to hear from anyone else who has seen something like this!