bnwhitaker

July 27, 2022

6 hours ago, J-rap said:

Videotext?

I appreciate you sharing this. It's not this curriculum unfortunately. Does have similar features though. The guy on the other curriculum I'm looking for was younger.

July 26, 2022

Hello All, I'm hoping you can help me recall a math curriculum we where looking into.

What I can remember I believe was that this company only had Algebra and Geometry. They were taught by a man on video. These classes were good for someone who had dyslexia (which my guys does). The classes had all they needed but were maybe more to the point and they had less lessons than say teaching textbooks. I would appreciate any ideas. Thank you

*I found the answer. For anyone who may be wondering in the future. It's Denison, their success version.

April 14, 2021

On 4/11/2021 at 7:19 PM, PeterPan said:

My ds has SLDs, and it's pretty popular right now to blend SWI with OG type instruction. So you end up with products like spell-links https://learningbydesign.com/ or Morpheme Magic https://morphememagic.com/

I think it makes a lot of sense as a methodology when you're at the roots/morphemes stage of spelling but is maybe less efficient in the earlier stages when something prefab might do as well. In a way it's what SWR, WRTR, etc. have been doing for years. (not exactly, but sort of)

https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/campaign/vocabulary/ I got workbooks from this series, because I wanted something easier to implement. Rasinski also blends SWI methodology into his fluency workbook series. I particularly like his poetry workbooks. https://www.teachercreatedmaterials.com/parents/p/poems-for-building-reading-skills-level-4/50238/

I'm not really in a position to make anything more free form happen, but that's great if you can.

Thanks for the links! I loved morphememagic!

On 4/11/2021 at 7:34 PM, kirstenhill said:

I'm really curious about SWI because I'm trained in OG but didn't take the level of training that looks much morphology. I really love that SWI is coming from linguistics as a field of study. That being said I don't know much about it yet. I feel like this has the feel of implementing SWi in a homeschool curriculum, but I don't know enough to know if this is actually a faithful representation :

https://www.rootedinlanguage.com/instructional-materials/word-study-packet.

Thanks for the link!

2 hours ago, kirstenhill said:

Bunny trail for a minute...would you mind sharing what dyslexia groups you have found helpful? I'm in a couple groups on FB for OG practitioners that I joined after I took OG training, but both groups are heavily populated with classroom teachers and school interventionists, and their needs are so different from mine just working with one kid in a homeschool setting.

I had this same questions as I read. Glad to hear the answer!

April 12, 2021

I'd love to hear your experience if you've used it! Or if you've heard about it and decided against it, your why?

April 10, 2021

I'm hoping to find something similar to Fix It grammar. Any ideas?

April 15, 2020

17 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

How old is he? If he's 7 or 8+, I wouldn't hesitate to do meds. Otherwise, you're gonna keep really short sessions and just keep working, working. I had to work with my ds that way when we started. We did 10-12 minute sessions, over and over throughout the day, 4-8 sessions a day. You can make lots of progress if you work in little chunks and just keep at it. Get him up, get him moving.

You know the other things you can be doing are work on working memory (there's never too much of that work!) and RAN/RAS. I've shared my files for that. Print, put in page protectors, and run him through them every day. Strong RAN/RAS is highly correlated with strong readers, and it tends to be low in dyslexics. It's something tested on the CTOPP, the major test they run. So technically, it would be nice if you'd go ahead and get evals and get a baseline there. What you might want to do is find ANYONE who can get you a CTOPP and some achievement testing run. That can be an SLP who specializes in reading, an OG tutor, a Barton tutor, a psych, an intervention specialist, ed therapist, anyone you can find right now who will do it. If you can get that baseline testing run, at least those things, you'll really be glad. Then, if it takes you a year to make psych evals happen (shut down plus normal 6 month wait for psych evals), then you can intervene in that year without worrying. He'll still be diagnosable, but just having that baseline will be really good.

Around here, I can find a reading tutor to do that kind of testing for just $75. It can be a really low key thing, kwim? Just ask around, see what you can find. Maybe call/email psychs and see if they have some names of people. We got that tutor name from the swanky psych. Asking is free.

What is RAN/RAS? Or where can I find the files?

April 15, 2020

15 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Ok, so some people are really into the parts to whole, whole to parts thing. When I bring that up with my phd educator friend, she snorts and says it's both. There are also words they'll use like "gestalt" and the idea of whether the person *can* see the whole.

However when I read your description, honestly it sounds more like anxiety. I can't remember all your other thread, but were ADHD and anxiety on the table? That's what it sounds like to me. He's trying to control his world. So anything you can do to increase predictability, increase structure, etc. will be good. So YES you should give him a calendar and let him know exactly what the PLAN is. There is a plan and it's knowable and this does not have to be something that is adding to his anxiety.

My ds was very anxious and controlling like that. It chilled quite a bit. Now he just needs a heads up to know if something will be different or if there is something coming he wasn't anticipating.

As far as not understanding the Real Science 4 Kids, hmm. Didn't we ask you questions about his language? Is he reading or is he listening to you read the text? And are you giving him supports like a list of precise academic vocabulary and helping him form sentences using that vocabulary and helping him narrate the lesson using the vocabulary?

I think if he has language issues, you're going to need to get those eval'd and identified. We can't really figure that over the internet, because that takes evals. He clearly has some challenges.

An example of helping someone see the BIG PICTURE in history would be to use the Veritas Press cards. I used them with my dd successfully. I am an avowed HISTORY HATER, one of the few you'll ever meet. My mother ran a museum and my stepfather was a curator in another, so don't tell me that I'd love history if I had better exposure. I was dragged all over to history junk and I HATE it. But you know WHY I hate it? Because history is this never-ending fractal of detail, and I get lost. I literally graduated from college thinking all of history was on a timeline, non-overlapping. Then I started homeschooling and they're like no stuff overlaps! I had no idea of the connections, couldn't piece anything together, didn't know the BIG PICTURE. So the very thing history people like (the details that they piece together into narratives) was what lost me. I need frameworks, like the VP cards, into which I can fill details.

If you read SWB's Well-Educated Mind, she also suggests using your specialized interest or a genre area of endeavor as a way of organizing history, and that works too! So for instance you could study weapons through time and let all your history connect and be organized in that way. For me, music across time is really good. Anything you want.

So I'm with you on the value of frameworks and structure for organizing material for people like me who have issues with gestalt and tend to get lost in the weeds. It's an issue, sure. But in your case, it's possible you have more going on.

Thank you so much, I truly appreciate all your help. I've learned a lot for all you've written. Its funny as I learn more and more I see so much I have probably been missing. Even for myself. I have been listening to the book Overcoming Dyslexia and its funny. Although I can hear and understand her its just too much. I have always been I guess "big picture", like just tell me the basic facts about it and I can handle that. But if you give me all these details that the book does, my head just can stand it. I actually get so irritated and sick of hearing it. Its just over the top for me with info. I skip details in directions also and just want to hear the basics. Somewhere in the details it boggs me down. Although say when Im planning something like a school program or party Im more detailed and precise than almost anyone I know. And I love it.

I def think some anxiety is an issue for sure. Not sure about ADHD. I totally see what your saying about trying to control his world and how we can help to make that part a bit better.

As far as history YES ha I get you! My oldest lives on our ranch and HATES everything about it, so he says. Im sure people will be telling him when he is older how he would probably love to live on land like they would. Hahaha, he will def set them straight on the fact he's completely aware & educated on what HE DOES NOT LIKE OR ENJOY. I also like the later idea you gave for teaching history. Makes sense.

I think with the science part, RS4K, I'm probably not being fair. He's in a classroom with 8 others and he is very distracted by being with them. One he loves to be with them and that's his fav part since its his only day he gets to. So he is pretty focused ON THEM. So if I remember right the last time I was reading he was making faces with one of the girls at the other end of the chairs haha. Probably not to tuned in. But when he and I read here at home cuddled on our he listens and understand. No its not RS4K but other science books we read at home. It is pretty detailed too (in the "parts" way?), RS4K. Im just not sure he's gonna care too much about a plant cell at this age. So I think I will take a diff route.

We took the barton test for him last night. He passed Task B almost perfectly. Task A he took a while to understand but once he did he got most of it correct. But as far as their test I'd say, didn't pass Task A. Although I know in one week of him practicing he would pass it. Task C, He got 4 wrong but the rest were easy. I would add thou that I think one of the reasons he got some wrong was it was too much in a row for him. He can sit and do it but his brain seems to get sick of things quickly, "School Wise". He doesn't want to any of it very long. He begins to roll his eyes and not try as hard. But when he is fresh he gets most correct. Anyway all in all, I think for their test he would pass Task B, fail Task A & C.

April 15, 2020

I'm new to learning about this. Can you guys give me ideas of what would be whole to parts for History and or Science please?

April 14, 2020

I

April 14, 2020

If anyone has some direction with these two subjects I would love some 🙂 I'm thinking my DS is a whole to parts guy. But I am still learning.

He seems to want to know the big picture before anything else. And if it is the details they don't seem to matter to him. He wants to know who his day is going to go (that is if its not just free play all day - if so then he doesn't ask). But if there is a schedule of any type he wants to know everything before bed the night before. Always asking questions to understand what is that is going on. Not okay to do step by steps really. So Im thinking at least from what I've been learning he might be a whole to parts. I've been doing things like real science 4 kids and its not working at all for him. Just as an example.

April 14, 2020

On 4/13/2020 at 5:42 AM, PeterPan said:

I wondered if by this she meant like what SWR says, that kids will "spell their way into reading." They'll work on spelling every day and the kid just reads back what he spelled. It's a *piece* of what you do with a larger OG approach, but it's not complete instruction for a kid with SLDs.

On 4/13/2020 at 4:49 AM, Lecka said:

Really I think there are two different issues.

One — should reading instruction be slowed down to match spelling instruction?

Probably not.

(Edit — but can spelling instruction reinforce reading instruction — yes. But that doesn’t mean “do spelling first,” it can mean — work on them together but spelling’s purpose is to help reading.)

Two — is handwriting or copying a *fruitful* method of learning? It often is not for kids who have dyslexia. Other times it is. If spelling is going to primarily mean: memorizing or copying words — this honestly might not be a fruitful method at all. It might not particularly transfer to reading.

On the other hand — if spelling is going to mean — working on sounding out words, noting the sounds, working on segmenting, blending words after you have written them or formed them with tiles ———- that could be a really helpful thing to do. Because, it is then working on phonemic awareness skills. And, it is multisensory. And — those two things are good for a lot of kids.

So there is a big difference between someone saying they do spelling or emphasize spelling, and that looks like copying or memorizing, and the child does not have the phonemic awareness skills or the automatic handwriting, to get very much out of those....... or it can look like people do letter tiles and word chains and things that are things that often are helpful with dyslexia.

But it depends on what level, how the child does, etc.

Hi guys, so sorry I did not see this. I keep checking my "bell" up above but Im now seeing it doesn't always show me when someone has responded. I have now been going into each post separately to check. I appreciate you responding.

I should of gave more details, sorry bout that. So I ordered AAS & AAR last week when I knew something needed to change. BEFORE I wrote anything on these forums about some of the troubles I was seeing. Since then many of you have helped me to see my 2 DS and actually maybe all 3 might have dyslexia and/or (Stealth for my older). So I also text a friend I live close to who has a daughter with severe dyslexia. She said the woman who is in our area works with her daughter loves those programs (AAR/AAS). So I have them coming still. Should arrive soon.

I was confused thou if I should be working on both for my possibly dyslexic son 8 yrs. or just do reading and later (months) or maybe after a certain level start AAS. Wasn't sure if it would be too much?

I have been reading Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally S. also looking up all I can online. Its pretty confusing on what will work? But what seems to make the most sense is Yes that it can be a problem and most need an OG type program but really each child is very different with what they can handle and how they can handle it. Im only to chapter 5 or 6 in the book, so maybe it will help more. But after hours on the computer.... I feel I've almost come up with...... I will need to take a best guess and then just try a few things that I have seen recommended. And by that I don't mean just any old program but ones that would possibly work for him if he is dealing with dyslexia. Rote memorization seems to be a no for sure.

Right now since I have only just started to learn about this and have no real evals Im gonna have to just begin somewhere.

AAR & AAS - for reading/ spelling. I may try both at the same time, Time frame split up thou. Maybe one at beginning of school day and other at the end. U have also wondered thou I should do AAR & Apples to Pears for spelling? But then I think maybe two that might work together better from same company?

Teaching Textbooks for math - I've been using Masterbooks, Math Lessons for a living education. He seems to be learning well or at least Im seeing he can figure the answers out. He's really good at the word problems. They are basic but he always seems to do well, really thou most of it he gets well. Its the math facts that don't seem to stick. MLFLE actually teach to use Right Brain Flashcards, I have not done that yet, been using CLE FC. I have wavered on whether or not to switch from MLFLE to TT. My older two told me I should swtich to TT. That they wished I would of just started with TT and stuck with it. That its one they have understood well. They do have great grades in it. They both struggle with reading/spelling also. I also like the idea of TT teaching the lesson well and consistently. But I would be sitting right by him helping him with all classes.

Reflex Math - this is something I was thinking of trying for facts. I'm not sure if the time thing in games (pressure) will be too much or he will love it. He did love the running games in LOE with reading a word quickly. So we will see I guess.

Its confusing not really knowing what will be best for him.

Science - I need to change up. But is just hands on enough or should he be watching something or me reading to him. OR all of it. Supercharged is great for experiments and she always does a lil video too. My older two boys said they learned most science from Moody science videos (so old), magic school bus, & Sonlight experiment videos. They did watch those all the time when young. Then in 6th grade & the summer we did a group class for all 5 books (in a row) of Real Science 4 Kids Middle School. It was awesome. Worked well.

History - Been using Masterbooks Story of America. He says he doesn't really like it or remember any of it. We are in class when I read it. I wonder if he would be more interested if he could ask questions while I read and me just talking with him afterward would make sense. When teaching a class we of course can not interact the same as when its just he and I, so I miss those opportunities. I do ask all the children 1/2 way through our 4 pages if they would please tell me something I read to them. My DS told me yesterday that he always has to think of it and say it over and over in his heard till I get to him so he doesn't forget it. I too realized in the fall that if I didn't begin with him or put him in the beginning somewhere of asking that he would forget 2 min later, or another child would say what he was and he didn't have anything else. Although lots of the students struggled a bit with this. Like it was something they would need to learn to do. So its again hard to know.

He does not enjoy audio books ( I think cause he's so used to the movies and youtube stuff ?). At least so far. I should try again thou. He just thinks he hates them now. I tried to get him to listen to Odyssy and he complained and then didn't want to listen to anymore? Not sure why. He hates to color. He will draw if needed and it doesn't bother him. OR LIKE in the middle of math..... He's supposed to be doing his facts but sometimes he will want to make every number drawn in artistic ways? Like all super long or super tiny or swirly. He enjoys doing the facts thou, never complains. He also said he does not want to cut anything out and glue it anymore LOL. We have been doing a lot of that in the co op. But mostly for cutting out Timeline figures, coloring them, putting them in our TL books. (and I ususally do all the cutting before hand to cut down on time) He's so not into it thou. One thing I did start doing more about 2 months ago was just sit and read to him from a science book like Usborne Childrens Encyclopedia and a geography book like mastersbook My story. AS long as I keep it to a few pages each and don't ask him to do extras he will really enjoy it. He also says his favorite subject is Bible (when people ask). It actually surprised me the first time I heard him say that. I use Bible Study Guide for all Ages, but all I do is read the story. He doesn't color the pages (hated it since he was little). I use the flashcards (which he gets only some right). But really it the little short and sweet story on the page he likes. He LOVES it when I say okay look at #1 picture box then I read. If I accidentally go to #2 picture with out telling him to move on he will ask me to back up and reread while he is looking at it. He's really specific with what he like to learn about. Like he loves legos but only really wants to do starwars even if its create his own. He likes the science encyclopedia but Hates the animal parts does not want to learn about animals. He lives on a ranch so he does see them a lot and know a lot about the biology of them. He loves the other sciences thou. We've always just chuckled and shook our heads (not where he can see) at how much he seemed to know what he liked at a young age & how particular he is. And how we can never guess with this child. He's so awesome and never boring. Just really lights our world up for the better.

One thing I been really pondering is how I will start our day next week. It seems like for reading purposes a few smaller times a day would be better? Or at least a couple breaks in his day & not overwhelming him. BUT he kinda has this thing where he wants to get EVERYTHING that is "on his list" done as soon as possible so he can have his day. SO he wants to do school asap, take his vitamins before he eats so its over, when we start school he wants to do each subject in a row and not take a break.... even when he is tapped out and needs a break. Its like he is painfully making himself do everything because he says he doesn't like to have a list to do. (Pressure - this is also my child who does not want to be part of ANYTHING organized music, sports, clubs, art BECAUSE its too much pressure and he also doesn't like to drive - we do live 20 min from anything) Now he wouldn't mind driving if its to target to get a lego set LOL! He loves to stay home. He was so excited when I signed him up for BOOSTER BRICKS club. He ran and told his brothers.... "Guys I get to be in a lego club and I don't ever have to go anywhere!" Oh dear, I was like, this child LOL. At least we found something he can kinda be a part of although he really isn't interested in doing may of the FB challenges because unless is specifically something he wants to create he's just not interested. He does however love the school day I put together for him with other students once a week. He loves to play with children and see his friends just fyi. Back to his at home school day... So when he wont give himself a break.... At that point I say MOM NEEDS A BREAK, he's not happy with that but knows it's necessary. He doesn't like to play and then come back to work. A couple weeks ago when I told him he couldn't gather the eggs until afternoon cause the chickens lay in the morning he was beside himself. Somedays are better than others. I also explained that I can not do everything right when he wants it done. So last night he wanted his vitamins before dinner.... I was super busy trying to do about 3 different things.... in past I have explained to him he will need to ask me more than once sometimes cause I might forget if Im in the middle of something. So by the 3rd time of him asking last night he said to me, " Mom my vitamins, I know this might be hard on your heart (he meant to keep interrupting me), but Its also very hard on my heart to have to wait." Cause it stresses him out so much he has stuff "to do". So its been very interesting trying to hear what are real issues, things that matter to him, his personality, and also just his age. Then to throw in his dad is the kind of guy who also wants to get up get everything DONE so he can then be done for the day. So humm not sure. But getting school done with this type of personality thing going on might not be in his best interest. To cram it all I mean JUST TO GET IT DONE. I will do the best I can and just be watching him.

Oh dear this is LONG. Can you tell my first one was NOT ENOUGH detail and my second post was WAY DETAILED LOL. Im always usually one way or the other its hard for me to be in the middle 🙂 ha. If you made it this long and have anything to say please do 🙂

April 13, 2020

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Welcome to LC! It does sound like you're in the right place.

Don't forget the Barton screening tests. I'll be interested to hear how they turn out if you want to share. People can help you interpret the results and make a plan. Also you can email or even call Barton herself and talk with her. She's a lovely person, very helpful.

I sure appreciate all you help! I did my test and It was totally fine. I will still need to have my son to do it.

April 13, 2020

5 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

I agree with everyone else in that it sounds like dyslexia. In addition to all the good info that you've received here and on the other board, the thing that stuck out to me is that Star Wars is (1) a visual input and (2) also a story, whereas nearly everything else you listed is rote memorization or memorization of snippets without context or a story. While you ponder getting evaluations, here are some things that worked for us and might help you in the meantime so that both you and he can gain confidence .....

(1). Building off of Dianne Craft's phonics cards, have him create a silly picture using the words that use the phoneme. So for example, for "eigh" that says the long a sound, we put 8 apples on a scale to be weighed. or for the /or/ sound, we drew a boy holding an OAR and a girl holding FOUR lumps of gold ORE standing on the FLOOR. (admittedly that's a lot for one card but it works for my kiddo.)

(2), Allowing the kiddo to immediately use the word/sound/fact in a silly story/sentence/conversation.

(3). put more things you want him to remember into a story format. Memorizing facts verbatim, even bible verses, is not the be-all--end-all. you might try funny poems (perhaps with hand motions) for him to gain confidence in memorizing. Or ... an offshoot of this idea .... put things into chants with a strong beat, perhaps that would tap into the musical side of his brain.

Also -- you mentioned that he didn't want to join soccer because he realized it would be too stressful for him. this made me wonder if anxiety isn't also holding him back with his schoolwork. "If it's difficult and thus stressful, then I don't really want to do it."

Another thought - maybe he's bored with the repetition that is cause from waiting for him to remember his facts, or remember romans 5:8, or remember that 'Chemistry is the study of matter"; what if you went deep instead? what if you studied patterns in math instead? or studied the doctrine of grace instead? or watch video documentaries to dig deep into scientific concepts. Maybe he's more the "big picture" kind of guy.

Love all you wrote, thank you! Lots of great feedback and ideas to use or look at.

I like the idea of "big picture". I really line up more with the big picture idea its just most things I've been around are more the opposite. Is the big picture idea a "type" of teaching? Just wondering so I can look up some different curriculum options. Not really reading/math. I think im understanding my options with that. But mostly everything else. Im wondering if just reading would be best, I mean me reading to him. Or videos/docs/movies.

Do you know if the whole fill in the blank thing after reading in different subjects is something that works well? Something like Sonlight Science worksheets after reading the science or doing the experiment. OR something like Notgrass history the workbook review questions to fill in. Or is that something we shouldn't even worry about? I know for my other two boys it helped them not only to know they needed to pay attention so they would have answers but also to help get it into memory.

April 13, 2020

5 hours ago, Storygirl said:

I just read the answers that you got for this question on the Chat board. I agree with them. What you describe is very common for someone who is dyslexic.

And for what it's worth, Awana and Classical Conversations were both also poor choices for my children, due to the heavy demands on memorization. We needed a different approach. Memorization is not the only way to learn, but it's very common for homeschool teachers who embrace a classical philosophy to teach via memorization.

It can be hard to switch gears, but remember that your purpose is to help THIS child learn, so you will need to adjust your choices to suit his learning style. I would drop both Awana and CC. If Awana is the main offering for kids in your church, it may be appropriate to keep him in it but talk to the leaders about how he can participate with some modifications of the expectations. I would not pay money for CC for someone who cannot learn by their methods.

It would be a better use of funds to use them for evaluations and then for possible tutoring or the purchase of remediation materials (which often cost more money than regular curricula).

Thank you Storygirl for all your input. I can see that I will need to be changing the way I teach for sure. We did drop Awana earlier this year because I began to see him start to feel bad he couldn't keep up and he also began to say he didn't want to go it was no longer fun for him. The verses were way over where he was so we dropped. CC we dropped last year end of year and I created a drop off day this year where other students come and I teach. I've been using masterbooks America's Story and also Real Science 4 Kids and we do geography. We also had memory work for Spanish, Roots, & Math- grammar memory work. I'm seeing most of these I will have to change some things up.

April 13, 2020

I'm just learning as some of you have probably already been helping me... thank you.

I'm wondering. When a child has dyslexia should they be taught to read before spelling? OR should they be being taught at the same time subject wise?

Has anyone heard of or have experience with a lapbook helping a student with dyslexia? For any subject?

April 12, 2020

44 minutes ago, EKS said:

The most helpful aspect of Overcoming Dyslexia will be that it has lists of behaviors at various ages that are displayed by dyslexic people. You will be able to get a good idea from that if he might have it. Unfortunately, I lent my copy to someone many years ago and they never returned it, and I can't remember what she has in there about how to teach dyslexics. One thing I do remember though is that she says that parents should not try to remediate their children's reading. Ignore that. She means that parents should not *wing it* when remediating their children's reading.

Learning how my dyslexic son learned best was always a work in progress, so I never really felt completely sure I was doing the right thing. He turned out ok though--very well, in fact, in that as an adult he is doing exactly what he always wanted to do, and doing it well.

Here is what I did that seemed to work in elementary/middle school:

I never (or rarely) required rote memorization. Things that had to be memorized (like math facts) were worked on over a period of years.

All lessons were presented by me and were extremely interactive. I never expected him to do his schoolwork without me at his side--and this continued until he was in middle school. At that point, I still presented the material, but he would have some things (like math problems) that he would do on his own.

Once he could read fluently on a first grade level, I had him read aloud to me every day for 20-30 minutes. I gradually increased the reading level of the texts over a period of a few years. I think I had him stop with this when he was in 5th grade.

I read everything else aloud to him--all literature, history, science. All math directions and word problems. Everything.

As his reading got better, I did assign a few books for him to read on his own. These were always high interest and well within his capabilities.

He also was allowed to read in his room before he went to sleep. I would supply him with a stack of books that I thought he would like and gradually ratcheted up the reading level of the books in the pile over time. He had the idea that he was getting away with something by reading in his bed at night and found that motivating.

He did best with conceptual math--Singapore, Math U See--and not well at all with Saxon. He also did well with Jacobs Algebra.

When teaching math, I found that it worked well to scribe for him while he was learning a new concept. It also worked well to allow him to use a calculator for word problems. These things helped to reduce the cognitive load so that he could focus on the math.

For history, literature, and science, I went for exposure, and whatever stuck stuck. I didn't require him to learn anything in particular. So no tests on dates or vocabulary, for example.

For grammar, the only thing that stuck was Michael Clay Thompson.

Sequential Spelling got him spelling on about a fifth grade level. All About Spelling helped with some of the tricky rules, but his spelling is still not great, and it is good that he is able to use a spellchecker. His spelling is much better when he is using a keyboard (even without spellcheck) than when he is writing by hand.

For writing, we went through an extended period of him dictating and me writing it down. Then there was another good long period of him doing the typing but with me right there with him. That lasted until the middle of high school. Then he took Comp I and II at the community college and got As with very little input from me. He actually did the equivalent of a minor in writing at his four year school and got As in all of those classes. His writing now is quite competent.

I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for. If you want to post the resources you're using, the sorts of activities you're doing with him, and what your expectations have been, I might be able to give more targeted advice.

Thank you, this is awesome.

I'm in the middle of switching things up for him because what I was doing was not working. So this is very helpful!

April 12, 2020

5 hours ago, EKS said:

This sounds like my dyslexic son. All of the memory problems you're describing are related to remembering things that are disconnected from actual meaning (except the Star Wars stuff, which I'm sure has enormous meaning for him).

The reason many dyslexic kids have such trouble in elementary school is that the tasks required are all about the stuff they have trouble with. Sequencing, rote memorization, copying, etc. But as they move forward in school, and concepts, themes, and meaning take center stage, things start to get a lot better.

Note that there is no need for kids to memorize a bunch of stuff just to memorize it (despite what WTM says). I'd have him spend his energy working on other things.

I'd take a look at the book Overcoming Dyslexia and see if what she says in there resonates.

Thank you for your info! I'm so brand new to all this. I was just saying to another member that I was understanding that dyslexia is a harder time with words and numbers. But my son was also having a hard time with large picture cards. With full on pictures. I was thinking that should be helpful but he still struggles badly with it. So what your saying it might make more sense to me know. A lot of those pictures don't really have much meaning to him. They still just rote memorization I would think. If he knew the story behind each picture it might be helpful right? I really need to change so much of what Im doing. CC had me really thinking memory work all the way. So wow, okay shift I guess it is.

Do you think the book Overcoming Dyslexia will be helpful in knowing how to teach him going from here on out? I want to be using his time and energy wisely. I also really don't want to make him do anything that would be a disservice to him. Just for me to know the basics for even say tomorrow. Like, Would teaching full picture help him more like a story in history rather than facts. Or does saying part of the story back to me by narration help at all? Or writing things out or? He's good at coping cursive handwriting. You get the idea. 🙂 thank you!

April 12, 2020

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So like the others I'm going to suspect an SLD or two or three. That highly gifted, highly creative plus things not working like that should would fit that. And because of the above (which can indicate anxiety), I would say don't cheap out and just do a tutor eval or make assumptions. Actually go get a really good psych eval. Hoagies Gifted has a referral list, or just whomever you can find who specializes in dyslexia.

Can he *repeat* the verse if you say it? Because we're also going to want to discriminate language and hearing issues here. You never want to assume on hearing, so if it has been a while, that would go on my list to get tested. Our university will do a full audiology eval and an APD screening for FREE. We've had people on the boards here say their univ did it at low cost. Ours used to be $35. So it might be a drive once everything opens up but it can be very low cost. Or go privately if private audiologists are open now and you can make it happen.

Fwiw, I would try to find an audiologist who does testing for APD as well. That way you can start to have that discussion. Audiology isn't so much about what's happening as MAKING SURE IT'S NOT. Kwim? And given how much you're describing with language, I would just get that done, just to cover your butt and be sure. Is there any family history of learning disabilities? Did he have language issues as a child or require speech therapy? Have you suspected anything?

Again, it's time for evals. That's going a little far, even for dyslexia. We expect poor working memory and language problems with dyslexia. However at that age they were bringing in songs, visuals, games. When the reading element is removed, the learning should have been working better.

So it's definitely time for evals. The psychs probably have a waiting list and it can take a while to find someone who is not anti-homeschooling (important) and who has a good reputation with SLDs. Sometimes a neuropsych can be the right person, but sometimes they might be called something different. If the person is a clinical psych, just be very cautious. You want to hear more hours of testing, more tests they're going to do. Ask each person you call what tests they would run. Tell them the things you told us, and then write down quickly all the jibberish. Then you can google each test and compare to see who is offering you the most thorough evals.

Has he ever been to the chiropractor? It could be something simple like his tail bone being off. My was like this. But it could also reflect some bigger issues going on with retained reflexes, vestibular underdevelopment, sensory hypersensitivity, etc. So I would start with the chiro, since they're open and easy to make happen. Then take your time and see if you can connect with an OT. You probably can't get an eval right now, but you can google for the tests for retained primitive reflexes and run them. Our PT used the exercises at Pyramid of Potential. I think they sell a $35 video that has a lot of them. That would get you a month or two of progress. Then, when you can get the OT eval, get that done. Look for someone who is SIPT certified or who does a lot of sensory. The primitive/neonatal reflexes integrate and then the vestibular, vision, etc. reflexes do their thing, so problems with vestibular (which is what being uncomfortable in the car can indicate) can have the primitive reflex integration as their first step.

The car thing can also be sensitivity to the sound (sensory hypersensitivity), auditory processing, etc. So really, you could use some evals to tease this apart. But start small, start with what you can make happen affordably now, and just take steps.

So this would not be a total solution, but if you can find an SLP in your area who specializes in reading (these exist!), they might be able to do evals for you right now via tele. SLPs who specialize in reading typically have extra tests for language issues, so they can screen his narrative language, expressive language, pragmatic language, of course his reading (decoding, phonological procession, comprehension), auditory processing, and more. They may have some tools to get you actionable info. It won't include the IQ, achievement testing, and other things a neuropsych would screen for, but still it could go a long way.

Thank you so much for all this. I wrote it all down to look up and learn about! I have tons to learn as I just last night started to realize through these forums that this might be our problem.

He can/does repeat after I say things. He just wont remember in 2 min or maybe even seconds. He talked early and well. His ability to have conversation and his level of words/vocab and thinking is WAY above his age level. Always has been. He would always and still does from those who are around him. Although he doesn't always love when I make him repeat. Just this week I was wondering if having him say the math facts out loud would help him? So I asked him to say them. He gave a big eye roll and look of ARE YOU SERIOUS mom 🙂. So that want too fun. But he obliged me for a few.

No family issues of learning that I'm aware of. Other than me after reading all of this, ha. I too can not memorize things well. I've done the SWR training 2x and it still just feels a bit overwhelming. Grammar although I've been through CC for years still doesn't stick. I've even had friends try to help me, it just feels like "a lot" and kinda sucks to try to understand it all. I just figured I disliked it that much or didn't care enough. I do not know 1 spelling rule although I teach them. I memorized NONE of CC memory work although I taught it. I have not one Bible verse memorized. I could muddle through a few. Although I know most of the Bible decently. There was a book in Challenge B my boys were supposed to be reading (I don't have enough faith to be an athiest) it was way too far above their reading level so I read. Oh my it was too hard for me. Sucked to even try to get through it. Which we didn't. I tried to do their Logic with them and it blew my mind didn't even want to try after a while. School was horrible for me personally. Although I could be told by friends and people who knew me "how wise I was". I'm looked at as smart but know I don't know things I should or have a hard time learning things. As I got older I began to learn things I cared about and it went better. I chalked it up to people learning better when engaged. Which is kinda how I have run my homeschool, because of this belief. I can read a book but not a high level, I can but its hard and makes my brain tired. I can read out loud decently after practicing these last 10 yrs. I'm good with numbers and have found ways to make things make sense. But was horrible at math class. My writing was BAD. My cursive and print looked good. My writing still feels bad in the way if I were to write a paper I would have no idea if it as "good" or not. Spelling I kinda could just figure out at least about 60% and I've grown a lot in the last 10 years of homeschool. But CC grammar and the IEW were just kinda really hard for me with my boys. I tried to do the Writing with skill 2 years ago with them and couldn't really understand how to help them. They knew more than I did at that point. If I were honest with myself , LOE phonograms, I still don't know them all. I just figured I don't pay attention enough to memorize. But being in CC for years, I would just think I don't memorize well. But really now im wondering??

About my 8 yr old again... I keep seeing dyslexia is a harder time with words and math. But I was just thinking my son has these 11x8 picture cards. Question at the bottom and then a large picture. He can remember some but only about 1/3. Then he can not seem to get the other ones down at all. He will give the same wrong answer every single time. So the fact that they are pictures I was thinking should be helping him?

April 12, 2020

14 hours ago, Pen said:

How is his reading?

It sounds like memory problems that typically go with dyslexia

Reading is very difficult. Gets overwhelmed easily He really isn't reading. Still getting his phonics down. We read beginning readers together. If he is reminded of the sounds as we are sounding out a word he can blend okay enough to read the word. Once the word is over 4 letters and we do the sounds all the way through he will almost of forgotten part before we get back and read the word through as the word (not just sounds). I mostly have to help him remember a handful of sounds. The ones he knows he often has to stop and think about when sounding out. We worked on LOE A & beginning of B and it was just to much. Too much time for him to sit too. He was tapped out 10 min in. He liked the workbook (I worked with him) and he liked the games and reading the little word papers that go with the games. Actually seemed to do better while playing the games, especially the running games.

April 12, 2020

4 hours ago, Jann in TX said:

I was going to say just this--- you have described a typical dyslexic student.

Dyslexia is NOT about letter reversals-- that is one tiny symptom that few dyslexics deal with!

Dyslexia is about working memory-- in particular with written words and numbers.

Dyslexia is NOT a learning disability-- it is a learning DIFFERENCE! Most people with dyslexia have very high IQ's --- they are extremely intelligent, but their brain processes written work differently than non-dyslexic people. Students with dyslexia often come across as 'lacking skills'-- but the tools used to 'teach and evaluate' these skills were designed by and for non-dyslexic people!

This is why he can see 7+2 but cannot recall that it equals 9 (but he can figure it out!). This is why he can tell you everything you ever wanted to know about Star Wars (highly visual and auditory stimulation is processed and remembered easily)!

--

My middle daughter (homeschooled) was a very early reader. When it came to memorizing I thought she was just stubborn. She knew her math facts and phonics-- but I used a multi-sensory approach because her older sister was on the spectrum and I taught them together. It wasn't until high school that she became overly frustrated-- she NEVER read for personal pleasure-- only for academic gain. She spent hours to do an assignment that 'should have taken' 20 minutes. She scored pathetically low on college placement tests-- she never finished a section before time was up... but she was also the TOP STUDENT in all of her DE classes. She was admitted to college under probation and graduated with honors (and several awards). When she started working on her Masters in the UK things began to make sense-- she was double majoring in cognitive linguistics and ESL... one of her mentors ended up being one of the foremost dyslexic specialists in the world! That is when DD discovered that she was dyslexic-- and everything started making sense!

Thank you so much for this explanation. It was fabulous! I'm so grateful you shared this. Changed my entire perspective.

April 12, 2020

Does anyone have insight on possible issues with memory? I have been focusing on some school issues I'm trying to overcome the last few days with my 8 yr old (9 June 1st). And as I've been really pondering everything the last couple years I'm wondering if I've been missing something. I have two teens DS's also and 8 DS. He just struggles to memorize anything. I have been chalking it up to him not being ready for school yet or his age. I still believe that was part of it. But now I'm starting to wonder if there is also maybe something I'm missing. Here are some examples:

-Memorizing Verses - Very hard for him. (my other two who are very different from one another both could memorize decently). Shorter one sentence verses are difficult. Been working on the new testament books for a long while now and he can get 1/2 way through with about 2 mistakes. But he has been working on this for months. (Not daily thou). Any other verses were just too much in Awana (sparks and or cubbies never worked). I had to take him out of TNT Awana this year because there was no way he could memorize it and he was beginning to feel so bad each week. It did seem like a lot for a 3rd grader in my opinion thou.

- We did Classical Conversations for 2 years age 6 & 7. He never memorized almost anything where as the rest of the class did a decent job. He was also not interested at all other than to be with the children. Never figured anything other than he would when he was older.

- I started a Club/Class this year every Tuesday where we go to do history/art/science and some memory work (Spanish & root words) and I teach a group of children age ranging 7-9. He is also the furthest behind in this class with memorizing... memory work, vocab, science points we put to memeory like: Chemistry is the study of matter. He wants to remember in class but often does not. He will just guess. I have incentives and no incentives. I try to make a diverse way of including all learning types. But I cant seem to figure his out. Since this is not daily they all do not memeorize everything. But they do some of it. Him almost nothing. Other than the roots, We have worked on those for about 2.5 years and if I do a hand movement with it he will remember like. Bi means 2 (with 2 fingers up). He can remember those well.

- I have been doing phonics (alphabet) for years and he still can not remember 6 letters.

- We have Bible cards with pictures I've probably go over 80 times or more with him. He will only remember a few usually the first 3 of 20 even though we learned them one by one. He will give the same answer each time even though I've helped, corrected, and taught him other ways to remember it correctly. I could tell you what he is going to say for each one.

- Math facts, addition 0's he a can do, 1's he adds it, 2's not quit grasping. He can add fine. But as far as remembering he could have 7 +2 figure it out and then have that same card again and still not know it. The other parts of math he understands. But the memory part is what is hard.

- He can however recall ALL of starwars. Names and all! He could remember things from when he was like 2 years old. So that part of memory was amazing I had always been wowed.

I don't move on quickly in most curriculum that has to do with reading or math because it just doesn't seem like he remembers much solidly. When I have moved on it's just too much. He is and has been so advanced in just his personality since he was about 3. He is always the most mature one in class. I've always chalked that up to the fact he lives with 2 brothers 7 years older and mom/dad. But he emotionally is advanced for his age. Friends are always a couple years older. When he was say 5 and 6 he couldn't understand why all the other 5 and 6 year old's couldn't hold conversations with him or why they were rude/mean. Well they weren't but they were just normal. Most people, like his aunts and others he is around see he has always been so "big" for his age. Seen it as a cute or neat thing. He is super super creative. He LOVES to play. He Hates being part of anything structured (other than the class I teach). He doesn't want to be part of sports (we are a very athletic family), music, art, etc. He was going to sign up for soccer but then 2 days after the decision to possibly try it decided not to because, "it would put too much pressure on him". He doesn't like to feel stressed out. Sometimes I'm like what kind of kid is that in touch with not only with how he is feeling but what to do about it. He has been on teams before just fyi. Just did not like it. He loves the sport, if played for fun. His favorite being rodeo. We are a ranching family. He is very tough, athletic ability, and also active. He makes "beats" like beat boxing since he was like 2. Again he is from a ranching family. This is not something he was taught. Loves music. We have offered for him to do any instrument (which he did piano and violin a bit) but that also fits into the "no structured activites for fun" list. He loves being at home. Hates to drive almost anywhere cause he dislikes to be in a car (since he was born).

Not sure if I should post this somewhere else. I feel clueless. I mostly at this point just want to figure out which direction to go for learning.

April 12, 2020