You might want to look into the benefits of fresh milk for teeth.

That's up to you. I know LOTS of people with children numbering in the dozen range. In some ways, it's easier, they tell me (costly, though, to feed them!). You can always take it a month at a time. You don't have to make a decision permanently. Just ask yourself each month if you feel like maybe you can handle getting pregnant again. I, on the other hand, did it the dumbest way possible and don't recommend: I have a 13.5yo and a 20 month old. :svengo:

She didn't get to be a good writer by accident. She got that way because you've been teaching her! I wouldn't stop teaching. Probably, what I would do, is this: Have her work through Herodotus, doing only the language arts type assignments and the logic. Skip the writing assignments and sub in hers instead. Maybe go through the book and pick out a handful of writing assignments for her to do (ideally ones that are more argumentative, rather than merely reporterly), just so she keeps up and works on her essay writing skills. Two caveats: 1.At some point, she will HAVE to get good at essay writing, even if she hates it. If she goes to college, a lot of her work will be evaluated in essay form. Even if she doesn't, life calls for the ability to write cogently on topics that you believe to be important, at least from time to time. So, essays must be done. Before you toss everything, you better figure when she will develop this skill. 2.Putting the writing that she loves in her school work could, possibly, cause her to hate the writing, if she associates it negatively with her schoolwork. That's a matter of prudence based on what you know about your daughter and her emotional relationship to her schoolwork.

Hi Kim, Our Challenge group is just trying to get started this fall (still waiting to find out if they will get enough kids), so I can't really observe or talk to other parents, because I don't know who they will be. I'm wondering, how would you mitigate a situation in which a majority of the students weren't keeping up, or in which the Challenge director wasn't keeping up? I know that probably some of the students won't keep up, but if most of them don't or the director doesn't, then I am out not only several hundred dollars, but a lot of wasted time as well. Does CC have a method for dealing with persistently slothful students? Worse, how would CC handle a tutor not keeping up? Thanks for any light you can shed!

How I handle these things depends on my relationship to the people and my mood at the time. If I don't care much for them, or I've already had enough, or it's just the wrong phase of the moon....I'm likely to start giving them really inappropriate and unsolicited advice like "You need to make your kid get a hair cut" , "how can you let her wear low riders like that?", "You really should switch to Kotex, Tampax is so last century"...or a very blunt "mind your own business". If I think they aren't totally obnoxious, or if I might want to like them later, I still don't answer them directly or justify myself. Instead, I put the onus on them and tell them that they need to look up the information on the long-term success of homeschooled students and to look up how many Ivy League schools are actually seeking out homeschooled students, and then they can call you to talk. The point being that they don't know enough about the subject to: have and opinion, carry on a conversation about it, or question you on it. I also make it clear all of the things that I DON'T value, so there is no wasted discussion: prom (gag me), school sports, and school social life.

I grew up with a completely narcissistic mother. I get what you are saying. But I am not assuming it will be a positive experience. What I am assuming is that the pain of a last bad experience will be less than the pain of wondering if they wasted a final chance to heal that they will never get back.

There are many different issues here. The first is the SIL. I would just tell her flatly that she needs to mind her how business. Period. End of story. And I probably wouldn't be nice about it, either. I hate controlling busybodies. The second is how you and your husband as a couple handle his mother's dying. I would talk with your husband, privately, about how he truly feels about things, and let him know it's ok to want to see her even though things have been awful up to this point. The death of a parent is complicated, emotionally, and even more so when the relationship has been bad. He may need to see her, just so that he knows he did what he could and has no regrets later. This children seeing MIL is even more complicated. If she hasn't been brutal to them, you might consider urging, but not adamantly requiring, your children to see her one time. Give them some emotional support and let them know you are going to provide a boundary for them, so that if they are mistreated at any time during the visit, they can go. But I would urge them to go at least once, because dying does require some amount of charity on the part of the rest of us. What if their grandmother had a death-bed change of heart? It would be terrible to deny her and them the opportunity. After the one time, I would leave it up to your judgement and your kid's desire whether they see her again or not, depending on how the one visit went. Again, at the very least you and the children can have the knowledge that you did what you could. You don't have to carry regrets for the rest of your life about not making that last visit.

Have a related question for those of you with experience with this: What is the difference between taking the AP Biology exam and the SAT bio subject test? I mean, obviously they are different tests, but are they *very* different? Do colleges look at them differently? Why would you want to take one over the other? I have the Campbell's biology, as well as the study guide and lab book from the college board. I was planning to use the AP Biology course at Course Repository. Now I'm wondering. Thanks!

Since you said he can't handle an AP, then I would first find out not whether he wants a 4th science, but is there another class in ANYTHING that he would like to use that slot for? He doesn't *need* a 4th science, but maybe he wants to study economics in depth, or math, or a language, or an instrument, or or or.... If he does want a science, or you have decided that's what he should have, I would again first choose on interest. A 4th non-AP science really could be ANYthing. If he doesn't have a particular interest, I personally think the most useful 4th science is anatomy & physiology. After all, he's going to have to live in that body for the rest of his life. Understanding it can only be a good thing.

:rolleyes: I hate stuff like that. Makes a joke of REAL human rights issues.

I have a Russian MIL. I sympathize. This is something you can help your dh with, though. Teach him, role play if you have to, an agreed-upon way of handling what you KNOW is coming when you see her. Maybe something like: Mom, we aren't discussing that with you. If you don't drop it, then we are leaving for today. THEN LEAVE when she doesn't drop it. Don't get mad. Don't yell. Don't give in to pleas of "I'm sorry, I'll drop it." Just leave. She can try again another to respect your boundaries. Just say, "We love you. See you next week." And then go.

:iagree:And I would go one step further and flatly revoke the idea that she gets an opinion about jack-squat having to do with me or my kids. I would encourage the husband to also grow a pair and not let her rant at him...but if he wants to, he is not allowed to come home and talk about. She needs to be laid down some really hard, brick topped with barbed wire fencing, boundaries. She'll probably get mad for a while and not talk to you for a while. :party: But I'm meaner than most.

LOL!! I live on the eastern shore of MD, half hour from the ocean and beaches. We get the Baltimorons. :auto: Worse, even, than the ones who come for vacation are the ones who move here, then proceed to complain about the smell of chicken houses and the noise of farm vehicles. :banghead:

I am actually planning to use this course in the fall and have already bought the books. The only high school biology I can compare it to is Apologia. There is a lot more in the Campbell than in the Apologia book, but it does not look undoable. A lot of the difference is that there are a lot more graphics and that it is written in a lot more of a textbook style, whereas the Apologia is written more conversationally. I personally prefer the Campbell, as I think those graphics are actually important for biology. I also think that it is definitely at least an AP course and would take care of bio for a non-science major and serve a science major as excellent preparation. The Apologia is an acceptable biology for a non-science major who expects to take biology in college again. Hope that helps! Tammy

We've used Lukeion and we like it. It is rigorous, though, and under no circumstances would I start even a gifted child with them doing Greek 1 and Latin 1 at the same time. I am interested to hear what you've heard about them, though. I know that enough of the students liked it well enough last year that I had a hard time getting my son a spot in Latin 2 because it sold out in February, even though the semester wasn't over until May. We used Hey Andrew when he was young as an introduction to Greek. Probably too young for your daughter, though I would recommend the Greek alphabet book and song. Makes learning the alphabet super-easy, and she could do it before she starts her course (whatever that will be). We then switched to Elementary Greek. The level 1 was ok. Level 2 got to be too hard on top of our Latin studies, so we ended up dropping it. My feeling now is that for all but the super-motivated Greek is just too hard to do without some sort of outside help.

It will depend on the student. We did it a few years ago, and it was doable, but hard. Right now we are on a Greek break, and I hope to get back to it (at Lukeion also!) in a year or two. That said, if Greek suits her goals better, I would let her do the Greek and drop the Latin. Latin is easier to pick up on your own, or with less help, than Greek. And once you've done one inflected language, another is easier to understand.

:iagree::hurray: Thank you. I have been rather uncomfortable with the name calling of some persons with different sensibilities (ding dong, embarrassment to homeschoolers). I am also grateful for the link. I will review it carefully. It may help me to resolve some of my own unclear feelings about this issue.

Or just wear a better coverage swimsuit and stop worrying about it. I'm too lazy to deal with that mess. :001_cool:

I guess I'd come down somewhat outside of the typical. I don't think all nude art is pornographic...but it isn't modest, either. And I think that some of our children being uncomfortable with it might be a sign of the fact that it isn't modest. I don't think the human body is ugly and sinful, but that doesn't mean it's public, either, IMO. And while I do understand what some of the great artists were going for, I'm not sure that it was wise (I'm also not sure that it was unwise...a sincere level of uncertainty). And even where it is great art, I'm not sure of the wisdom of exposure for children, especially "studied" exposure with long lengths of time looking at it and talking about it. Would I have dressed the statue like those people in CA did? No. But if my children, especially at a "middle age" where they are so tender about their sexuality and modesty, were with me, I'd probably make a point of walking by it without drawing any more attention to it that necessary. I don't cover the nudes in our art books, either. But I don't encourage my children to linger over them. And if they feel uncomfortable I would not suggest to them that those feelings were in the wrong. I think those feelings are something that God has given us. And I would definitely not visit the art museum in Portland with the statue linked above. Sorry. I don't find it to be art. And I think they know it's not art, because they keep moving it around so that it can't be avoided. The realism is provocative, even if the pose is not. And the moving it around to make sure that as many people stumble upon it as possible is even more provocative. I'm also uncomfortable with nudity in art because I really can't figure out who is supposed to determine where art ends and porn begins. I'm not saying that all nude art is porn. Definitely not. But an awful lot is. And more everyday. I will not allow my children to look, unsupervised, at art books in the book store, because so many of the nudes now are not merely nude, and not even merely provocative, but even debasing to the human form. But it's all "art". At least, the book is labeled as art, the author calls himself an artist, and the bookstore has it in the section labeled "Art Books". Sorry for this longish post. Largely thinking it out as I write, what I have been half-thinking without articulation for a while.

Did you talk to the tutor's superior about the tutor's inability? Did it do any good? This *is* one of my concerns.

Do you mean the other kids weren't keeping up? Or the tutor? Or, I guess I'm not sure what you mean.

Ok, then how about this? A 5 point grade system. The system compares this writing assignment to the last writing assignment. 1 = Much worse than the last assignment, poor effort, needs to be redone 2 = Not as good as last assignment; re-do teacher optional 3 = About on par with last assignment 4 = Somewhat better than last assignment 5 = Much better than last assignment The kid needs to understand that if they are doing what they should, most of their grades will be 3s. A few will be 4s, and there is the remote possibility of a 5 here or there.

I think whether it is worth the money or not depends on your home and local situation. One of the things that I am placing a high value on for my son is the dialectical part. I believe good communication skills on difficult, high-level topics (ie., not just chit-chat) to be exceedingly important. If I had 8 kids who talked to each other about their school work all the time, or a local situation with enough high schoolers of approximately the same academic persuasion, I might not value CC as highly, because the fact is that I am already doing most of what they have academically in my day-to-day homeschool. But what I don't have is a lot of high schoolers in my area who I can trust to be committed to keeping up with a year of stuff, or even a semester (sidebar: I have had a number of unfortunate experiences with co-ops that basically boil down to the parents were not committed to seeing things through, making the kids get their work done, etc. I will not involve myself in another co-op again unless it includes a substantial financial buy-in from the parents to weed out the uncommitted. In this way, I believe the cost of CC to be a benefit, at least for my local situation.) And my two children are 13.5 and 21 months. Whether or not CC is worth it to you boils down, I think, to this series of questions: 1.WHAT are you looking to get out of it? 2.What are your options for achieving those goals? This is REAL options, that include what you can afford time/money wise, as well as whether or not you can count on others to be committed, if a co-op is in your plans. 3.Given your goals and options, what is the best fit for your family? Honestly, while I am hoping that CC works out locally, I would not do it if there were a group of families in my area that I felt could provide the group, dialectical experience with commitment. I hope that helps. I would love to hear more from you as you think out your options. It might give me ideas. :)

I don't. The objective parts I mark correct or incorrect and have him fix. The subjective parts I look for effort and increase in writing skill over time. If I don't feel a sincere effort has been made, then I toss it and make him start over. I don't really see a point to grading. I'd rather focus on improving the writing. Even if I had an A+ paper, I would want to continue to focus on improving the writing. That's the point of the course. And if the writing is as good as possible (which I don't think is actually possible) then the course would be over, because there is no longer a need.

I'm getting ready to enroll my 13 yo son in Challenge 1, if they manage to get some other boys enrolled in the program (right now it's only girls, and he would hate that). I come at it from a slightly different perspective of loving rigorous academics (though only liking textbooks as far as they serve that, not as ends to themselves, and I also love living books), but HATING busywork. I want our work to be academically rigorous, but always with a point, never just for producing reams of paper. Therefore, when I started exploring Challenge my concern was that it *support* our academics, because we really didn't need more help in the academics themselves. I hope that makes sense. What I learned when I went exploring that makes me hopeful that we will be able to start Challenge in September are these things: -Challenge is not a school. The learning is done at home. Challenge is a place where the kids get together to dialectically enhance what they have been learning together. So, they aren't doing a math lesson at their Challenge session. They are talking about the math lessons they have been doing that week, and sharing what has worked, what hasn't worked, etc. and are able to get help from the tutor should they need it. They get an opportunity to learn math more deeply by seeing how other kids in the rooms approached the same problems. -You do not have to use the CC curriculums. You do need to make sure that your child is on *roughly* the same level in whatever curriculum you use, so that they can participate in the discussion, but it doesn't have to be the same curriculum. So while they recommend Saxon, if you like TT, you can stay with that. Just make sure you are in approx the same level. My son will be going into Challenge 1, where they do Alg 1. But he's finished Alg 1, so he'll be ahead, doing Alg 2. That's ok. He's also already signed up and paid for his online Latin 2 course (second half of Wheelock). The Challenge 1 course is based on starting Henle 1. That's ok, though. His previous Latin will get reinforced and he'll have the opportunity to dialog about what he's seeing. I really dislike IEW, philisophically, so we are going to use CW just like we have been doing. Which is fine. They aren't there to take a writing class, but to share their writings and get different perspectives on it. I was also told by the director that you don't have to even read the same books that they read for their lit selections. I wouldn't go changing all of them, but if one or two look problematic for you, then changing should be fine (I need to read it, but I doubt that I want my son to read "Star Ship Troopers" and will probably sub something for it). -Challenge is a lot about community. The group is limited to 12 so that they can become close over time and really grow intellectually. It is very helpful to kids to see other kids working as hard as they are. I will say that if your son really wants to become a doctor, he is going to have to get used to textbooks. Textbooks aren't bad. Stupid textbooks used stupidly are bad. They are a tool like anything else. Hammers aren't bad just because some people use them to bash other's brains out. Some things that others who have been in Challenge in different places say makes a difference to whether your Challenge experience is good or bad: 1. The director is really key. If the director is good, the experience will be good. If the director is flaky or disorganized the kids won't get nearly as much out of it as they could. If you don't really like the director and don't get satisfying answers to your questions, you might want to pass. 2. You can ruin CC for yourself by trying to add to much to it. It is a fair amount of work on it's own, and if you try to add tons to it you will be miserable. It works best when you use CC as the core of your homeschooling and only add things to it as extras and be willing to take those extras out if they are taking too much time. 3. One of the biggest things that you can do to help your kid succeed and enjoy CC is to focus your efforts on their organizational skills. In turn, having CC with which to practice organizational skills is tremendously helpful when they go to college. 4. Understanding that most of their learning will still be done at home and that CC is more like a study group, not a class. A lot of what they will get out of CC is going to be slightly intangible at first. One of the biggest things they will get out of CC is an increase in their communication skills. I hope that helps with your decision making! :grouphug: