Hello- My 9th grade twins have always enjoyed math. For 1-6 we used Singapore Primary Math, always doing the Challenging Word and Intensive Practice. In 7th we did Dolciani Structure & Method 2 (newer 1992 ed). In 8th we did Foerster Algebra I. They enjoyed all of these and did excellently on the homework and exams. This year we are 4 chapters into Jacobs Geometry 3rd edition, doing the problems suggested by the author for an "honors" course. They are miserable. I think what they object to most is that a) the lessons themselves have so few examples (much of it is in the exercise sets) and b) in some of the exercisess he asks what seems like a vague question where you have no idea what he is looking for (and there seem to be many possible ways to run with it) - when you look at the answer key he was clearly looking for a particular answer. They find this frustrating. We are lucky in that the girls have the chance to be meeting every other week with a retired university math professor to discuss math. When I talked with him today about our frustration, he handed me the AoPS Geometry and suggested we might like it. I had the girls do a few lessons from it and they seem to like it. What makes me nervous is that it looks "discovery based" - which is what, I think, the Jacobs is. (Although the Jacobs put the "discovery" problems into the exercise sets whereas AoPS seems to have them built into the lessons. The girls say this is less frustrating.) I don't see Dolciani or Foerster as being discovery based. Singapore - maybe in the CW and IP sets. I don't want to make a second mistake this year! We could restart despite being a quarter into the year, but I don't want to get a second book they don't like and have to start a third time. Does anyone have a feel for how someone who did not like Jacobs 3rd Geometry for the reasons given might like AoPS? Thanks so much, and sorry for the long post. Lydia

Hello, For those of you choosing to use older versions of the Dolciani texts, what do you do for testing? Create your own? Use exercises/tests from the text? I know you can purchase testing materials for newer editions, but wondered about the older ones. Thanks! Lydia

Oh, that is *very* helpful information. Thank you so much! In your opinion, would children beginning 7th who have done very well with Singapore 1-6 (including all of the Intensive Practice, Challenging Word and Federal Test Papers) do best going into Course 1 of this, Course 2, or not at all? We are also considering NEM. I sort of think going straight into an Algebra such as Foerster would be pushing it. Thanks again! Lydia

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it! Lydia

Hi, Would anyone with (preferably) an older version of these texts be willing to tell me the basic chapters in the Table of Contents? I have not yet been able to find a copy in any local library and am trying to make a curriculum decision. Please note this is Mathematics Structure and Method 1 & 2, not Algebra Structure and Method. Thanks so much! Lydia

Yes, I do recommend getting either the Teacher's Guide or the Home Instructor Guide. I have used the Teacher's Guides for levels 1-6. The reason they are important, IMO, is that the Textbooks are pretty bare bones. If you only go through the textbook, you may not realize what concepts you are supposed to be imparting to the students. The TGs (and presumably the HIGs) explain exactly what it is that you are supposed to be getting across, and detail the lessons (with more than just what is in the Textbook). The other things I consider critical to getting the full potential out of Singapore are the Intensive Practices and the Challenging Word Problems. Both of those add significantly to the program. Best wishes, Lydia

1) How much time do you allow for your morning routine before you officially begin school? Why have you established that much/little time? Do your children shower in the mornings? Have bible study? What kind of morning chores? Etc. The kids wake up around 7 and usually read in bed for awhile. Then they shower and dress, and we have breakfast together. Their morning chores consist of setting and clearing the breakfast table, emptying the clean dishwasher, and tidying their room (making beds, etc). We begin school at 9am. 2) How much time do you allow for lunch break? One hour. 12-1. 3) At what time does your school day officially begin and officially end; this should include ages of children because it differs from grade to grade. 9am - 4pm with the hour break at lunch. They are 11 (beginning 6th grade). 4) How many activities per week are in your schedule during school hours (ie: co-op, special foreign language class, etc.). Piano lessons and outside gym class once a week each. But piano lessons are not during school hours (piano practice is during school hours). 5) Do you schedule 4 or 5 day weeks? For those w/4 day schedules how do you complete all the math and grammar lessons in a year? (I realize programs differ, so maybe a mention of that is helpful. For example, Horizons Math has a full 180 lessons.) 5 days. I'm looking to see if I can tighten my schedule or if it's as tight as I can make it. Best wishes, Lydia

It is an interesting comment (from the tuner). I imagine he means that their "ear" will not develop with the correct pitch. I could see this being an issue for someone who might become a serious musician. It is interesting - not something I had thought about before. I might ask some piano teachers and some musicians for their thoughts on that. My girls began piano lessons just before they turned 5, so they actually learned to read music before they learned to read English, which was kind of funny. They are now 11 and still taking lessons and playing daily. We did not have a lovely old piano, so we were in the market to purchase one. The thing that was stressed to us was to be sure to get one with lovely tone and with really nice action. Nice action was stressed so that it would not be frustrating to their tiny fingers, and so they could learn proper hand position (not having to fight a difficult action). Lovely tone so that they would be making beautiful sounds. We took the plunge and got a good piano, not a keyboard. I guess I am a purist there. A piano has soul. Back to your question, I'd ask around more and see what other people in the profession think. -Lydia

We used it for a couple of years (2nd and 3rd grade) and then put it aside because the girls seemed to be learning to spell on their own. (They are visual learners when it comes to spelling, and they basically learned to spell mostly from reading. We realized that because when we would test them at the beginning of each year they would have lept many levels during the summer.) We are going to pick it up again this year and do the last level. It is very easy to use for both parent and student, and the girls enjoyed it when we used it. It has strategies to help various kinds of learners. My only complaint would be that for a true rule learner, I am not sure that the rules given in Spelling Power would be the best. Since mine did not learn to spell by memorizing spelling rules we did not worry much about that. One nice thing about it was that it eliminated the busy work inherent in so many spelling programs. Best wishes, Lydia

talk to them. Listen to what they say. Have dinners as a family and discuss interesting things. And turn off the TV so they can read and use their free time to come up with all kinds of creative things (which also usually happen to be quite educational) themselves. And show that you love learning by your interest and enthusiasm and open mind. Best wishes, Lydia

Writing Strands flopped here. As to what is working, well I feel almost silly, but just doing a lot of writing is working. Writing happens to be one of their favorite things to do, and they write quite a bit (mostly stories but also magazines etc) every day in their free time. In school they write 3-5 reports a week (for history and science) and then do the writing exercises in Rod & Staff English. They also have school time (not every day, but many days) to "free write". We discuss their writing together. Perhaps I should do something more formal, but it seems to be working very well for us. Best wishes, Lydia

My mother has been working through this with my girls, although I know she has made changes to a few of the exercises, and has added some of her own. They all three sit down together and all do the exercises (including my mother). They discuss and compare and critique their work - what worked well, what might be have been done differently, etc - and have a wonderful time. Best wishes, Lydia

In all honesty I'd have to disagree that the HIG is not needed at the lower levels if using Singapore as a main math program. We use the Teacher's Guides, not the HIG, but I think anyone using it as more than a supplement would really benefit from either the TG or the HIG. If you look at the texts they are pretty bare bones. The TG goes into great depth about the concepts that you are supposed to be imparting. It contains instructions/ideas/suggestions on how to teach each lesson. Since Singapore is a bit different than the way most of us adults learned math in the way it wants the child to understand and conceptualize the material, I really think you could miss a large part of the point without either the TG or the HIG. If using Singapore as a main program I also feel that Intensive Practice and Challenging Word are pretty necessary to take it to the level which it was intended to achieve. Best wishes, Lydia

Once a week for us too . . . -Lydia

Our typical classtime (we will be 6th grade) begins at 9am and ends at 4pm, with an hour off for lunch. I am not including the hour they spend free-reading before breakfast. Sometimes we end at 3:30 if we get everything done quicky, and sometimes we go late - but 9-4 is average. I do not have our classes scheduled down to the 1/2 hour. We do not always do our subjects in the same order every day, and some days we spend more or less time on a particular subject, depeding on how the lesson goes. The big change we made beginning in 5th grade is that we added study halls. What I mean by that is that in 1st-4th grades, I would teach math, then they would do their math assignment. Then I'd teach grammar and then they'd do their grammar assignment, etc, throughout the school day. Beginning in 5th grade we have a morning and an afternoon block of classes - meaning the presentation of any lesson and the classroom discussion. I give them their assignments, but we then move on to the next lesson. Then, each morning and each afternoon, there is a study hall time when they actually do the assignments. This has worked wonderfully for us, and has taught them how to manage their time. They need to allocate time so that they get their assignments done, and so that they do not spend the entire study hall working on the science report due Friday while neglecting the math assignment due tomorrow. It also gives them the freedom to do things in the order they want, and they have enjoyed that. Best wishes, Lydia

I do not know if there are non-smelly whiteboard markers, but I do know that this is the reason we got an old-fashioned blackboard and chalk instead of a whiteboard! That and the fact that chalk dust does not stain fingers/clothes/kitchen cupboards/anything you touch. I love our blackboard. To the OP- I use the blackboard every day! I - write their study hall assignments on it - use it during math lessons - sometimes use it during grammar if showing a new diagram - use it when doing Latin derivatives - use it to write an unfamiliar word - sometimes use it during science - much more It happens to be in the kitchen (we do school at the big kitchen table), so we also use it as a family to jot a reminder, or to draw funny pictures, to illustrate concepts we are talking about over dinner, or to illustrate to Papa just what that interesting bug we found in the yard today looked like. Best wishes, Lydia

Oh, yes, I see. What grade are they? Can they read aloud to you? Consider it two in one (oral reading practice and history)? -Lydia

During the first few years we liked reading it aloud - despite the fact that the girls were perfectly capable of reading it themselves - because it gave us opportunities to pause and discuss as we went along. We had some really good discussions. We would cozy up on the sofa and read it together - which was also nice! :) How much are you reading in a sitting? We never did more than one chapter in a sitting. Best wishes, Lydia

I did not give the tests. We did do oral reviews and discussions as well as the kids writing summaries. Best wishes, Lydia

Oh, wow, Kim. I thought Peela made a lot of sense. I am always completely taken aback by statements like yours above. I know that many people believe this, but it just amazes me. I am not sure this kind of comment is really appropriate for a forum where other people's opinions and beliefs are to be respected. Kind of hard to sound respectful when you are telling people that not sharing your beliefs means they and their families are going to hell. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to a less personal level. JMHO. Lydia

Holly, Do you think Traditional Logic (or Kreeft - I'll have to check that one out) should wait until high school, or is appropriate for 7th and 8th following Mind Binders and Critical Thinking in 5th and 6th? May I ask what in particular you liked better about Kreeft vs Traditional Logic? Thanks! Lydia

I think it depends on the child. Mine are very visual learners when it comes to spelling, and have basically learned to spell from reading. While they have learned a few spelling rules, this has not been the main way they learned spelling. But I think some children benefit greatly from learning spelling rules. Just depends on how a child learns best. Best wishes, Lydia

My girls are will be entering 6th. I only give grades on tests or quizzes. And we only have had tests or quizzes in Latin, Spanish, Math and Grammar so far. On other things I mark errors and hand them back for corrections, but I do not grade. I have not yet graded papers, but the paper is not finished until we are all happy with the quality. I have not yet given a grade for the entire class, just for a single test or quizz. Best wishes, Lydia

Thank you so much, all of you, for your replies! You have given me much to consider! Lydia

We do. We usually finish around June 10 or so and take off until Aug 25 or so. It is a much needed break and allows the girls to keep busy with their own projects and pleasure reading and spending some days with Grandma in the woods, prairie and lake. Other than continuing piano practices/lessons we have no scheduled activities in the summer, and aside from chores their time is their own. It amazes me how busy they keep and what creative things they do, and makes me glad that they have the time to come up with these things. And it lets me catch up on some chores and consulting, and get the gardening done. To summer! Lydia