This is why I think my son would relate to short division more. He prefers to, and usually is able to do, everything in his head. He will look at a long division problem (still using one digit divisors) and do it in his head--and get the right answer. Then it turns into varying degrees of drama when I say, "Yes, that's right, but I need you to write down the steps you took to get there." His response is always, "I don't know. I just did it." So I am trying to make sure he at least understands the steps, but I think he would be MUCH more receptive to short division. I would have taught it already, but I wanted to make sure he learned "the right way" first. If he gets the concept of division in general and can do it in his head, is it ok if we move on to short division? He still hesitates when doing long division (only because he's not sure what to write where, not because he doesn't know the answer to the problem).

I recently purchased it to use next year. A quick look at the table of contents looks like it averages out to one writing assignment a week (using it 4 days a week for 36 weeks). However, I haven't looked closely to see what the assignments actually are. Based on our experiences with the 6th grade book, just because it's labeled a writing assignment doesn't mean they'll do much ACTUAL writing. It could just be a prep work lesson for a writing assignment in the future. Congratulations on the job, but just out of curiosity, really, why the need to be so cryptic in the original thread? Why not just say it was you to start with?

As a kid, I was originally taught long division and then in middle school, my Pre-Algebra teacher introduced me to short division. I love it, and this is how I do it all the time now. I think my son would actually pick this up faster and easier than long division, but I am afraid that he's "supposed" to learn long division first, like I did. Is it ok to teach short division instead? Or is there something inherently important to learn about long division first. (He has just learned long division, but I wouldn't say it comes naturally to him yet.)

My son (8 yrs old, 3rd grade) is this way, but not just with long division. He's this way with pretty much everything--math, science, history, diagramming sentences, etc. It just depends on his mood. If he's in a good mood, he has no trouble doing any of it, but on a bad day, he "can't" do anything at all. On those days, I've realized the best thing to do is just sit with him. I might have to either prompt him through it or just watch while he does it himself. On a really bad day, I will do the writing for him while he talks me through the problem telling me what to do and what to write where. Usually, after doing a few problems that way (and me saying, "OK, where do I put the 2? Wait, why does it go there? Oooh, that's right. OK."), he realizes it's faster and easier to do it himself. But he's told me he likes having me there, even if I don't help him directly. He just still wants that one-on-one time and feeling like he's not all alone.

If you ever are able to post your worksheets, or alter them to post them, or email them directly, I would LOVE to see them and probably use them. Sorry I missed the link before they told you to take it down.

I wouldn't mind too much that he laughed/giggled initially--at least he was at the table and listening as opposed to sitting in a corner with headphones on, but when he continued to let it be a distraction, I could see getting frustrated. 16 is too big for that, imo. Were his parents there?

We are completely jumping around within the 3 books. Each child takes a turn picking what type of animal they want to study. We do any chapters relating to that animal. Usually, it's just one chapter, but recently my daughter wanted to learn about horses. Horses are in the chapter about ungulates, and since there are two chapters on ungulates, we did both chapters. Then, my oldest son wanted to learn about beavers, so we did the chapter on rodents, after which my middle child chose sharks, so we did the chapter on sharks and rays. We've done it like that all the way through, and so far we haven't had any problems. There have been a few times where the author referenced something covered in an earlier book or chapter that we hadn't done yet, but it's never been an issue.

Thank you so much for the detailed feedback. The more I read, the more I think it would be worth it to us to use BJU. I love seeing that BJU is pretty rigorous. I really appreciate all the reviews!

Bethben, where can I find the DVD's for the BJU Earth Science? I don't see them on their website.

By all means, I really would love to hear what you don't like about Apologia for the middle and highschool levels. I have looked very briefly at the Gen Science text, but I haven't been able to study it for very long. Mostly I was planning on using simply because we were using the zoology books this year and have really liked those. If I remember correctly, it had some life science thrown in there as well. I am not as interested in that, because we did all 3 zoology books this year, and we've always been more life science/biology oriented, so it's about time we focused on more earth science topics. I really love the way the BJU earth science text looks, but Cathy Duffy's review says it's pretty parent time-intensive, and it costs over twice what the Apologia set costs. If it's worth it, then I'll pay it and put the time into it, but if it doesn't matter that much, I would probably just stick with Apologia.

I love the looks of this program as well, so I am all ears with this thread. The only reason I haven't gotten it yet is because of the cost. And to have to spend that every year is even more daunting. Can anyone tell me how many lessons are in each level and approximately how long you spend to complete each lesson? I'm wondering if it's something where we could do one lesson a week and spread it out over a couple of years. Is there enough there to do that?

I hear ya. That's exactly why my K'er ended up with a jr notebook. I knew if her brother's had them, she would have to have them as well. But since your oldest is still pretty young, I would just vote for not doing the notebooks at all. It is easy to find simple coloring sheets you can print off for them to color instead. :)

I had been planning to use Apologia's General Science for 7th grade (son) next year, since we enjoyed using the elementary Zoology books this year. However, I have seen some negative comments/reviews about Apologia at the higher levels, so now I'm having second thoughts. Could I get your feedback on Apolgia's General Science and/or BJU's Earth Science? We're a sciency family (I have a BS in Biology, and husband has a master's in Organic Chemistry), so I would prefer something that is fairly rigorous. Thanks again for your input!

We love it. However, because I was worried that we would get tired of just one or two types of animals, we are doing all 3 books simultaneously. So we have jumped from one book to another to another throughout the year. I am looking forward to getting back to the first book though, because we are going to get a butterfly kit to observe while we study insects. After using the notebooks with my kids (ages 11, 8, and 5), and at the ages your kids are, I would only get the jr notebook for the oldest one, if that. I'd probably prefer doing it more as a read aloud and just enjoy doing the experiments and more of the fun stuff listed on the website. Even though the jr notebook has less space to fill with writing, it is still a lot, and a lot of the stuff they would be writing is hard to spell. Even with my 8 yr old, I have ended up mostly writing down what he tells me, as opposed to him filling it out himself. I am sure we would have enjoyed just spending more time looking at the supplemental stuff on the course website and watching documentaries than doing the notebooks, but I already bought the notebooks, and I'm a little OCD like that, so we're going to finish them. And we are still enjoying the books immensely.

Thanks! I'll check it out.

This is good to know. Thank you. Can you give me an idea of how much time CE would actually require? If it could still be done in 15-30min twice a week, it sounds like it might be worth it.

I am trying to choose a vocabulary program for my will-be-7th grade son for next year. He had a spelling program this year, but we have not done a vocabulary program yet. He is a strong reader and picks up concepts quickly. He will be using the 7th grade Rod and Staff English, Kolbe Academy jr. high literature, and Pentime Cursive 7 for his handwriting (which is slightly better than illegible most of the time). I am looking for something workbook-style that is at least fairly independent and not too writing intensive. Ideally, it would also be something that could be completed with 15-30 min, a couple times a week or less. Based solely on Cathy Duffy's reviews and what I can tell from the online samples, I am interested in Vocabulary from Classical Roots, Caesar's English, Vocabu-Lit, and Sadlier-Oxford's Vocabulary Workshop. However, I have seen several people saying Vocabulary from Classical Roots is dry and disorganized in its presentation. I am worried that Caesar's English may be too time intensive for me as well, plus, I'm not sure what level he would need. I think the MCT website has Caesar's English I listed for 4th grade??? But the program listed for 7th grade (Word within a Word, I think) looks like it's too heavy for what I want. I really like Vocabu-Lit and Vocabulary Workshop, from what I can see online, but I wonder if it's better to approach it from the Latin/Greek roots perspective. So I guess the first question is, how important is it to learn Latin and Greek roots, especially for a child who has had no background in Latin/Greek as a foreign language? If it's very important, then I'd love input to help me choose between those two programs (or any others you'd recommend). If it's not that important, then any advice on any of these programs would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Isn't it incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition (in)? I think technically it should be "Sharing the goals of the communities in which we work and live."

I did this somewhere around age 6-8. My mom laughs about how much patience was required to listen to me tell a story. "He said, he said, he said, he said, he said, ...." before I would eventually get around to telling her WHAT "he said". I grew out of it.

Thank you for all the input. After reading your descriptions of the maturity level required (and the way your son initially reacted to not knowing the answers the first time, dereksurfs), I'm thinking we'd probably do best to stick with Horizons, at least for another year or two. After posting my question here, I found an old thread where 8FilltheHeart described her kids' personalities and experiences with AoPS, and it was very helpful as well. At this point, my son is not interested in competition math. I don't even know how homeschoolers would get involved in that. But thank you again for all the advice!

I was afraid we would get tired of one type of animal as well, so we're using all 3 books simultaneously this year. We did the introductions to all 3 books, and from then on the kids have taken turns picking which animal we study next. It's worked out really well. Before I bought them, I actually called Apologia to see what they recommended regarding order of the books, and the lady I spoke with said it really doesn't matter, other than the first chapter of the first book is a good introduction to the study of zoology overall. So they do recommend going over the first chapter of the first book. From there, it's up to you. (The entire first chapter of the first book is provided in the sample on their website.) And other than occasional references along the lines of "If you studied Zoology 2, then you may remember...", there really is no need to study them in order. Here is the page for the samples from the first book: http://shop.apologia.com/zoology-1/142-exploring-creation-with-zoology-1.html Hope this helps.

I've used Horizons with all 3 of my kids this year, and we all love it. My oldest son is about to finish up Horizons 6, and I had planned to start him on Horizons Pre-Algebra in the fall (7th grade). However, I just discovered AoPS Pre-Algebra, and I'm trying to decide if I should give it a try instead. My son is pretty quick with picking up math concepts, and his Horizons work is easy for him. He just doesn't enjoy the time it takes to solve a problem, especially since I make him show his work. From what I can tell so far, AoPS would be more likely to challenge him and make him think critically about the concepts he's using, but I hesitate to try it if he's going to balk at the extra effort. So I guess I have a couple questions. 1) Is AoPS that much more advanced than Horizons? If it's not that much different, then I guess it would make sense to just stay with Horizons, since we all like it already. 2) If AoPS is worth the extra work that seems to be involved, should I push him to rise to the challenge? I have no doubt he could handle the concepts academically. I just don't know if he would put forth the work required to do so. Is it worth forcing the issue? Thanks for any input!

Too funny! Thanks!

Thank you so much, everyone, for your responses. I didn't realize you just needed a bachelor's degree to qualify. I have that. And now I can tell my mother that I my degree IS actually coming in handy for something other than being a stay-at-home mom! lol

I sorry I don't have any advice for you, because I'm soaking in the responses myself. You are not alone. My oldest is 11, so I am not quite to your level of frustration yet, but issues come up daily that make me dread the teenage years. I love this idea. That is probably one of the biggest sources of contention with my 11 yr old. I give him a general list of things that I want him to do, thinking I'll go into more detail as he does each individual thing. Then all of a sudden he has a meltdown, because I "keep adding to it". And, I hate to admit, but I frequently forget what I told him previously, regarding consequences. There have been times that I have taken away computer priviledges, only to be told that I "already did that." I need to start putting EVERYTHING in writing with this kid! So thank you, suzziesnowflake, for bringing this up, and 8FilTheHeart, for the suggestions!