Alison in KY
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Posts posted by Alison in KY
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When do you count working a part-time job as a work co-op?
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I know this is an older post, but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions...internet safe sites you recommend, etc.
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We are Christians, but I am interested in finding a comparative religion course. Does anyone have a suggestion?
Alison
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Thank you so very much Lolly! That was greatly encouraging and full of some great nuggets. I really appreciate all of your suggestions.
Alison
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Does anyone have a suggestion for an Algebra 2 course? I know I'm leaping here, but I do plan on buying a program and using it with whatever time I have. We are working okay through the Tabletclass pre-algebra course. If I continue with their Algebra 1, there will be some overlap between the pre-algebra and algebra 1. I could try their Algebra 2 also, but I wasn't sure if there was something out there I was missing. I really like the looks of Power Basics for geometry, but I see they do not have Algebra 2. Also, I found edX and their intro to geometry looks great for my needs.
I bought a used Lial's Algebra for college students, but I'm thinking I bought the wrong book. This is reading a little wordy and not so simple for my tired brain.
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I've written down all of the above suggestions of curriculum, etc. Thank you all. Honestly, I really wasn't looking for suggestions as much as I was looking for some in the same situation to discuss our situation and the handling of it. And success stories, I really was hoping to hear of success stories :). All that being said, I still do appreciate the suggestions.
I had the wonderful opportunity yesterday to speak with a local public school guidance and career counselor. She was able to enlighten me on some of the confusion I had. Bottom line is that right now in my state (KY) all kids are required to graduate with algebra 1, 2, and geometry. I couldn't believe it, and I asked for clarification. Every kid. Now again, being a private school, I do not have to necessarily live by that. However, I would not want to look that different in a transcript because of what my kids have an interest in, which is attending college.
I asked her how it's possible for all kids to pass those classes and be able to graduate, and she said it doesn't happen (me reading between the lines here I'm thinking they just don't flunk a kid out for math grades). She said that often they will take algebra 1 stretched over 2 years, then do geometry and algebra 2. Also, they will tutor, offer extra credit, etc. I do not know what textbooks they use in this school. This is an adjacent county with a smaller population and many farming families.
I can't tell you what a relief it is having that conversation with her. I mean, I totally think it's crazy having all kids meet that requirement (and she agreed lol), but I now understand that they are obviously helping kids all across this state get through the math. So some of these kids are having teachers give credit, opportunities, etc. I feel totally better about sitting down with my son and reviewing a math test where he's missed many problems from little inattentive mistakes and walking through the problems with his understanding, then moving on.
Back 35 years or so ago when I was in public school we had a separation of classes from high, medium, and low. Those kids doing great were high, and the strugglers were low...so we basically have low math going on here.
She was also able to clarify the getting into college grades/scores for me. If my son can meet the overall ACT score of 18, then he's in (at least the 2 closest colleges). However, if he doesn't meet that benchmark math score on ACT then they will have him in a lower level math class. I'm great with that, I just needed to hear he could get in. For dual credit, with his current math scores, I believe he just would not be able to take a math class, but could do social sciences, English, etc.
I feel like a weight is lifted, just from talking to her and reading between the lines. I'm not saying it's going to be easy for him, but it will be doable. We are going to keep working through the math daily, with some added nighttime homework. We will learn as much algebra and geometry as possible for him between now and college.
BTW, any suggestions for an easy going geometry? We're using Tabletclass for Algebra (well, actually pre-algebra, but several topics overlap). I've found the edX geometry and will use that for a start.
Alison
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You and I were posting at the same time, and I did not see this. My post looks so insensitive coming straight after yours. :crying: I hear that you are working at it so diligently and I agree that the system is unfair. I know that other disagree with me, but I would not even require Algebra 1 for certain kids that I tutor. There would be much better and more useful classes for them. I get *very* frustrated teaching kids how to use the quadratic equation when they can't even solve a basic word problem. Someone has NOT thought this through. But unfortunately, no one who sets policy has ever asked me! I am not saying that you should require a serious class in Algebra 1 and Geometry course in order to list it on the transcript; I would totally make them 'light' courses and call it good. But passing algebra 2 suggests a mastery of a *serious* algebra 1 class, and that is where you fall into trouble. Algebra 2 is hard. Very hard. And not all kids can get through it. That does not mean their life is over. Seriously, what percentage of the population uses Algebra 2 even occasionally? It is not high. So talk to the Colleges and find out how they handle kids like yours. There has to be a way. You need to ask!
Ruth in NZ
Love this, thanks.
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I was looking at some random KY community colleges, and some of them want you to list textbooks you used. Going through Power Basics together might be a good git'er done.
Also, gently, listing that you have completed a class when you actually haven't done anything at all for that class, is fraud, isn't it? Be nontraditional if you want, but don't do nothing and say you did.
I am not doing nothing and calling it a something. I am doing something as best as we can and going to call it passable. We have consistently worked on math every year, summers, etc. Even the different math textbooks are not consistent. Our pre-algebra mathusee did not have a lot of algebra in it. Now our pre-algebra Tabletclass math has a lot of algebra, and comparing it to the algebra 1, has many of the same topics, one just works a bit slower than the other.
I know you don't mean anything negative, and I'll admit I'm feeling like my toes are being stomped on a bit. As stated above, it's the system that is set up a bit wonky in my opinion. If a kid doesn't fit within the box, then they are made to feel like they have to pick a trade and I don't think that is correct. I'm just a frustrated momma.
A good friend, quite wise in life, made a 28 on the English portion of the ACT, and a 14 in math. She went on to go through college, get a BS and masters, and is doing quite well for herself. She still hates math, but handles her money quite well :). I know several people like this, and these are the people I tell my son about, so hopefully he feels like just because his brain can't connect with math, that he's not totally stuck in a certain future.
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I had to take a few days away from my own thread :). What was meant as a whiny post griping about the way things are set up making it difficult for some kids has me stressing out about it all over again.
Storygirl, I wanted to thank you for the thought and hugs. Well, not just Storygirl, but everyone here! I really appreciate it.
I do feel like I am in a situation where preparing this kid for college means I have to list a passing grade for algebra 1, 2, and geometry. It's what I've seen listed at the local community college and the closest state college. I really don't know what to do other than that. It doesn't make sense to me, but I have spoken with admissions in both colleges and that is what they say. At the same time, they tell me if ACT or COMPASS scores in math are low then the kids will have to take a remedial math class. What really confuses me is how they say to do both algebras and geometry, but they are also saying if scores are low then a remedial math class will be taken.
I think I need to go have a face to face meeting with admissions and make sure I'm comparing apples to apples because it seems like the schools are saying two different things. In KY they have what is called a pre-college curriculum and all colleges (even community) follow it. It lists three maths, algebra 1, 2, and geo. required for college admissions. Well, when it's black and white, listed as a requirement, then that looks like it's required. If I listen to admissions, a kid who doesn't do those three classes, or struggles, shouldn't even be in college (which is ridiculous). Yet I will see on their math classes that they offer courses below algebra (applied math, contemporary, etc).
We have not done the ACT yet, we have our first one in 2 weeks. On his practice ACT he said the math was terrible and he scored a 15, which was better than I was expecting :).
I feel like some of you think I should not put a passing grade on a transcript with Alg 1, 2, and geo. What I am saying is that if that's what it takes for a step inside the door at college to do remedial math, then I'm good with that. We will keep at math and get as far as we can as promptly as we can.
I just don't like nor understand the requirements written and told by colleges and almost a feeling like kids aren't college worthy if they struggle in one area or another.
I became whiny again, sorry.
I welcome anymore been there and done that, or in the midst of it. I also appreciate the curriculum suggestions.
Alison
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I know you say that you don't think he has dyscalculia, but it sounds like dyscalculia to me. I would ask the public school to test him (or do it privately, but that is expensive), so that you have it documented. Colleges may want to see that he has been tested.
My son has dyscalculia, diagnosed both privately and by the schools. He is only in fifth grade, so I can't advise you about what to do about high school, but your description of what math is like for your son sounds very much like what my son struggles with.
ETA: Schools generally won't call it dyscalculia but a Specific Learning Disorder in math.
Also, you said you don't want his troubles with math to hold him back in life. However, it is likely to affect his choice of college, which is why I think it is important to have the paperwork.
When I've looked up the symptoms, he fits in a few, but mostly he does not fit with dyscalculia. Not saying he doesn't, but we don't think he does. I think the attention deficit is the majority of it. We had him tested privately and the psychologist didn't suggest dyscalculia. He is taking ADHD medicine, but I'm really not sure it's helping. Thank you for the suggestions.
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This is likely an unpopular opinion, but if he can do the work with you standing by, but can't focus when you leave, I would try ADHD medication. Not having the math skills can really hold him back in life.
He's taking med's. If I show him how to do it, he get's it. If I let him do it on his own and remind him of the steps he can do it...left on his own he typically can't finish, skips, and/or makes lots of little mistakes.
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Honestly? I would create nontraditional Alg 1 and 2 and Geometry classes. Is your student a reader? For geometry, read some books that talk about Geometry, like String Straightedge and Shadow. Read some "living math" books (there's a website with those. I think it's livingmath.net). Have a book list for each class. Call it good when those books are read.
Git er done, but do something, don't just give credit for not even touching the topic. Just touch it in a different way.
If your student is more hands on, then find some hand on stuff to require instead. Maybe mess with Zometools for Geometry. Lakeshore Learning Center has lots of hands on stuff that has basic geometry, and that's all you need at this point.
Take heart. Tons of kids got through public school barely scraping by in their math classes. I know you want to do better for your kid, and you have. Now we just need a "git er done" approach and let that be that.
Great suggestions, thank you! We are currently doing a pre-algebra course, but it includes several subjects from algebra 1. WE are doing school every day, and weekends and plan on going all summer. Although, I admit, things have slacked the last few weeks :) I'm motivated to gain as much ground as possible. I'll probably have him double up with geometry soon, although I hope I'm not wasting money even trying that one.
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Heigh Ho, I don't mind but to have him ready to go to college, it has to read like Alg 1, 2, and geo.
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In KY the norm/college track is to have 3 maths - alg. 1 and 2, and geo. I'm technically a mini private school so I could graduate him however I choose, but that would not look appealing should he decide to go to college.
He can and he can't. Sometimes it seems easier than others, I think it just depends on what's going on in his head. When we hit algebra, or any problem with an unknown, instead of trying to go through the steps he would (and still does some days) try to come up with a number for the unknown. He would stare and stare at a problem. If the problem was 2X = 4 then it was no big deal :). It was explained to me that it's very difficult for him to separate those problems into little steps. His brain instantly says no way, but this is all me saying this. He couldn't put it into words, he'd just say he didn't know. When he was younger we would hit road blocks with longer multiplication and division. Numbers would get out of line, etc. But we passed through it.
He has common sense. My middle one lacks the common sense, but if you give her instructions on how to do it then she'll get the problems right :). On a test, she would look much better than him. In real life, I'm not so sure that he wouldn't do better.
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As a high school math teacher, let me assure you that if he really does understand arithmetic, fractions, percentages, etc. then he is not as far behind as you may think. (I once tutored an eighth grader who had trouble with single digit addition and subtraction. Granted, I had her in a pull-out because of her math struggles, and that's not at all standard, but still.)
Most colleges are going to want the three math credits, so I would try to push through. If he does well in other areas, C's in math shouldn't kill his transcripts. (He may have to start in community college and transfer elsewhere later, but that's cheaper anyways).
I would recommend taking a look at jumpmath.org. It only goes through eighth grade, but some of the basic algebra concepts are covered. (Again, you'd be surprised at how many kids struggle to grasp basic algebra).From there, I'd probably go with something like Saxon (except maybe more mastery-oriented) or that teaches the kids how to do the math without making them try to discover it. Inquiry learning is great, but for a kid who has trouble with math it sometimes just leads to frustration.
Also, I would let him use desmos.com when he does his math work. It might help him to "see" the functions graphically.
Feel free to let me know if you have questions---not a parent, but I do teach math at a Christian school.
Thanks. I will try those things.
Could you tell me what you do as a math teacher when you have a kid like this? If I am there to help his focus, and remind him how, he can do the problems. I leave, then he can't because he's left to order and put everything together. I say he can do fractions but those are probably the hardest for him because he will forget which steps to do...like when do I need common denom.'s etc... But if we are actively working for a few days on one concept it's fine. Leave it for a week and it's gone. I could not review enough for this kiddo.
I'm thinking this surely isn't that uncommon, and I often wonder what level he'd be at in public school. Maybe I've kept him too far trying to get that passing grade on a test...which he often won't get. Maybe I should be okay with showing him a concept, having him demonstrate back to me, then moving on even if he couldn't pass it a week later on a test?
I am going to say he did the three math credits. I will not let his future be dictated by math struggles. I just wonder how others have handled similar situations out in the world.
Alison
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We used other venues to make the student realize details count. That could be cooking....does it matter if you forget the salt? How about skateboarding...if you shift your body incorrectly, do you land the trick? The band teacher also had a great lesson that he presented on details in a musical piece, so it wasnt just mom. How about driving...do you have to do a full stop or is rolling okay? I yanked the driving privileges for 6 months when the kid decided details dont matter in driving. He can pay attention to details that matter to him, such as clothing, passing a class etc. So he has the ability. Those 6 months had some interesting conversations, and he was still a kid that tried to do as little as possible academically in math. What changed his attitude was online software used by his college teachers. He could target his practice and get clear explanations well before he had to perform on a test and there was no penalty for failure on the hw.
For multistep, how is his working memory?
Good ideas. His memory is okay, sometimes it's non-existent and sometimes great. Very random, but it is. He lacks confidence and although he can do steps fine when you tell him every step of the way how to do things...he can't put it together and do it well on his own.
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Just wanted to post my thanks to those suggesting testing and trying some other things. We don't think he has dyscalculia. He does have ADHD.
I have hired an experienced tutor...didn't help. I've tried online programs, home programs, lots and lots of review, etc. Yes, we have gained ground..but when you have a soon to be 17 year old who will graduate in a year and a half, you don't have much time to cover three math levels.
I'm sorry, I hope I'm not coming across unappreciative. I think I'm just done worry about trying to get over this hurdle, when I think maybe the hurdle is overinflated anyway.
I'm trying to build my son's confidence that just because his math scores are low, that doesn't make him unintelligent or even not a good candidate for college. I have no idea what he will end up doing and all I tell him right now is that I wouldn't go for a degree with a lot of math.
I am annoyed that this has stressed me out so much. I'm annoyed that so much emphasis is placed on the ACT when I know too many people who scored poorly on their ACT and went on to go through college and be quite successful in life. I'm just annoyed lol. But I do appreciate all of the suggestions and comments. I will try my best to make the next year and a half go well for my moves at a snails pace, not good at math, lazy, fun, entertaining kid:).
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I would love to hear from other parents whose kids struggle in math. Like really struggle :). I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around what the world expects and what we are capable of, and what even makes sense.
In our case, my intelligent teen is a junior and we haven't gotten through beginning algebra yet. According to public high school and college, we should complete algebra 1, 2, and geometry before graduation. I doubt it's going to happen, not for lack of trying. What I do have is a kid who can add/subtract/multiple/divide, make change, understands fractions and percents, etc.
I've gotten a lot of advice over the past few years about trying this program or that, keep working on it, hold him back, etc. Nice advice, but it's one of those things that until you've been there I just don't think you understand. This is not a case of us letting math go, skipping around, etc. It's simply a case of an otherwise bright kid who struggles with multiple steps, unknowns, paying attention to details, etc. And this does carry over to other areas at times...with studying and testing the typical public school way.
So honestly, what then? What have you done? I plan on making an acceptable transcript with the required math courses graded a passing C. I really don't know what else I could do...I mean you don't just stop someone from growing up because they can't do "higher" level math :). And I will continue to encourage him to attend college, or whatever he wants for his future.
I know I'm venting here. I just get frustrated that the world is made to fit in that box, and if you don't fit it's somehow a negative :(.
Anyone else?
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I was wondering if someone here with experience could give me an idea of what my teens issue may be and how to help her deal with it. She's a fourteen year old who seems to not get the common sense of how things work. I've known that since she was little. It's not terrible, but she'll sometimes miss things in movies, or what people mean. It has gotten some better with age. However, when she's not texting her closer friends, but say texting an adult or grandparent, she often asks me what to say. It's like she can't come up with the words to text, or she's unsure of getting it wrong. She's done this for years now. She's also my high strung one so having an open discussion about the why's of this just don't happen.
When she does grammar and things are straightforward she does fine. If I ask her to write out her thoughts into words it's a blow up. She says she can't. Knowing her struggles and tendency to stress/spaz out I haven't pressed the issue so much, although I have tried to find out how she feels (she either doesn't say or can't say).
She is very picky on books, so I'm thrilled when she reads something and doesn't complain. She finished a book today and I asked her to type something about the book...anything. She stresses, freaks, etc saying she can't do it or doesn't know how. I give her ideas and I get the same reaction. I think part of the issue is just confidence, or worrying about looking dumb...even to me. She's the kid that won't let herself go to play physical games in front of others because she will be embarrassed. But it's got to be more than confidence issues.
Any ideas on gentle ways to help her put thoughts onto paper, or any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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I am wanting to use American School for some classes. I don't plan on using it for math or English. I would love some suggestions on classes that your kids may have enjoyed more than others. Also, would you suggest the online courses, or just paper?
Thank you.
Alison
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I'd give her the full credit and call it good :). My son is very intelligent but has always struggled with math. He doesn't fit in the typical math box for college, but I am not going to ever tell him he couldn't go to college because of his math scores and lack of advancement. It's taken me awhile to get this attitude :) I've worried more about mouth than anything, tried a variety of programs, tutoring, etc. Sometimes smart kids just can't do a subject (or that's our experience). I assume it's his ADD.
A close friend and mentor has a daughter who never completed Algebra 1 in highschool. She's not successfully going through college on her way to being a physicians assistant. This mom tried and tried to get through the math. Maybe it just takes some longer to get it, maybe some never do. I just know I'm tired of stressing over it and having my kid feel stupid about math :).
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Can anyone share some transcript examples and tips you've used to register a child in the NCAA? This is something I never thought I'd be doing and we have a fairly relaxed homeschool. My highschooler is in 11th grade, so I'm hoping I have recorded enough information from the past few years to be adequate. I'm just afraid not doing standard school type stuff will be a negative in this case, so some been there and done that would be great. Thank you.
Alison
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I'm in western KY....tornadoes hit this way too, but I'm not sure they make it to eastern KY. I've heard real rural areas of eastern KY have a big drug problem, and poverty but I'm not sure which area. I know there are church groups here that go to eastern KY for mission trips.
It is fairly easy as far as homeschooling rules go :).
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Work Co-op?
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
Anyone?