I'm curious about prices, too. Beth, how much was the trip that your daughter took? Robin

Lisa, does Henle take you all the way through three years of high school Latin? I was thinking it only covered two years for some reason. I'm hoping to find something that we can do for years two and three. What can you tell me about the exercises in Henle? How many and how often? Do you have to divide up exercise sets over days? From what I've heard about Henle (haven't seen it), I'm afraid that it's very condensed and that we'd have to figure out on our own how to stay on a chapter for some time to master it. I just don't think I want another program that has only 10 - 15 lessons/chapters for the year and we have to stay on one lesson for weeks. I'd like something a little more incremental... at least one lesson a week with several days of structured exercises to follow. Kind of like the way Classical Writing has a weekly schedule. That would be ideal for us. A local school uses Wheelock in 7th and 8th grade (after a couple of years in Latin Primer). I thought that was a college text? Wonder if I should look at it, too... I've also been reading your an others' comments about reading more in latin in the early years. I am definitely thinking about LL as a supplement because of what has been said. LitCT had little reading, to be honest. A couple of paragraphs every other week. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions (not just in this thread)! Robin

Thanks, Janet... I'll check out Cambridge! Robin

Hi Maverick, Yes, we did use the study and drill sheets. My dd would do the exercises out of the book in a day or so, and the drill/study sheets in a day or so, and that was too quick. And the exercises were not logically divided up to be done in multiple sittings... programs that are will have (for example) Set A one day, then Set B the second day, and then Set C the third, etc., so that the student would get sufficient review and practice every day. One topic in LitCT might be reviewed in only one exercise out of 20 or 30... so you could go weeks before reviewing it again. Does that make sense? We'd go quite a few weeks without seeing a topic for a while, which caused some problems with forgetting... and then at least once, maybe several times, a topic would be taught and then no examples or exercises... the vocative case comes to mind as such an instance. Did you notice that one of the last tests actually tested on a topic that was never covered at all? And I have the newest edition, for sure. Anyhow, we still managed to get through the program and enjoy it, but it was only first year, and easy enough to feel our way around when we got confused. I have no latin at all and weak grammar, and I just don't feel confident that I can navigate my way through increasingly difficult levels on such a thin rope. I need a big wide plank with lots of safety nets :). Something like a Saxon equivalent for Latin! LOL Daily review, etc. I know lots of people who like LitCT... I hope I'm not discouraging others... I think maybe it's a better fit for someone who works well with a "chapter approach" that lays out the chapter objectives, but leaves individual scheduling, etc, up to the teacher. That's just not me... which is one of the reasons why TOG isn't a good fit for me, either. Thanks so much for mentioning the drill and study sheets, though... you are right... they do add extra practice. Robin

13yodd succeeded with LITCT but I wasn't particularly fond of the program. I didn't think there was enough explanation or practice with each lesson, and I didn't really like the way each two week lesson was handed to us in one large clump without any sort of schedule recommendations. Dd would finish up all the exercises in a day or so with nothing left to do, yet she really hadn't had enough practice over a long enough period of time to truly learn/absorb the info - too much went to short term memory. There was also a problem with exercises that had no corresponding lesson, and lesson material that had no corresponding exercises (!!). Anyhoo... thinking about a switch next year and was wondering what would be a good program to switch to considering she's already successfully completed year 1 with another program. Any recommendations? Thanks, Robin

Colleen, I'm not aware of a new edition but that doesn't mean there isn't one :). However, I know there is a new edition of Nance's logic series... maybe that's what you were thinking of? Robin

Michelle, here is a link to their camp for "high achieving" students (i.e. serious camp related to career interest): http://www.tamug.edu/seacamp/newweb/TAG.html They have one for marine biology, marine engineering, veterinary medicine and premed. Expensive, though. There are other, not so demanding, camps as well.

An acquaintance of mine sends her high school soon to Texas A&M at Galveston's Sea Camp (a Marine Biology camp). She says it is wonderful and her son loves it. She recommends it highly.

Thank you for this thread. I am struggling with a lot of what is discussed here... unmotivated child, my constant pushing and prodding... I am so worried (and weary) about the relationship issues - I just want to be my dd's mom and cheerleader again, instead of this barking drill sergeant!! In another thread on the gen board, I asked people what they thought about the need for homeschoolers to keep a tight structure re: schedules, deadlines, etc., (to properly prepare their children for the realities of life beyond homeschooling), and how on earth you balance that structure and discipline with the various flexibilities that homeschooling affords... I think I realize now what I really wanted to know is how do you balance all that with the inherent relationship problem that being a constant nag can cause. I've been asking these sort of questions lately for real reasons... I am seriously thinking about putting my dd in school next year and this is part of the reason why. I would love to be her cheerleader for a change and not the meanie who forced her to forego a fun activity to complete an assignment on time. The fact that we are facing some financial issues right now and could use the extra income is another reason, too... it's not all because of the relationship issues, but I'm tellin' ya... the idea of being able to work a little bit and help my husband out with income, and being able to greet dd when she gets home from school with a smile and plenty of emotional energy left over to just be her loving mom.... it's really, really tempting. I don't know what I want right now... encouragement to keep the homeschool going or encouragement to make a change if necessary, but I just wanted to thank you all for this thread because it articulated some of the problems I've been having and it has made me realize that I an not completely off base here for thinking that accountability to someone else besides me might be exactly what my dd needs to thrive and be more motivated. Reading this thread has been kind of an "aha" moment. Robin

Hey, don't worry about it! It's a holiday! I'm just sorry I saw it too late to get in on things... Have a great evening!!

Pam, I understood the op's premise because I read her actual post... it explains it all. I did wince at the last few options, but I didn't think any of the more playful responses were intentionally derogatory. Not at all. No consternation here... just a little "ouching" at a few of the suggestions :). The only question I still have, which you probably can't answer :), is who on earth selected "the competition" and were they serious? LOL

I, too, winced when I read the options... And I just wanna know who voted "the competition"? Were they serious?

I kinda thought that, too. I don't think he was suggesting that no one should bother to marry past 30 if they've remained chaste... I took it to mean he thinks that generally speaking, we are sending our kids confusing messages when we tell them that they shouldn't marry young AND they should remain chaste at the same time... that it's sorta ridiculous to say ignore your desires and impulses and don't even think about marriage before 30 because you're too young. You're just gonna have to wait because our culture has decided that marriage before 30 is too young, and our religion says don't have sex outside of marriage. Most young adults in their early 20s are perfectly capable of handling marriage and they are *ready* for it. For those who are, they should be allowed to move forward with their lives and not told to wait for ten years. I think his point was that if you enforce a ten year waiting period beyond the young adult's readiness, there might very well be a "why bother?" reaction or extreme frustration, resulting in pre-marital promiscuity, etc. He was kind of goofy in his delivery but I agree with the points he was trying to make.

Oh yes... definitely not a homeschooling issue. As a matter of fact, the original article was not about homeshcooling at all. I'm just reflecting on how, as a homeschooler, the temptation to coddle is even stronger... and how can I fight that and balance that fight with the unique opportunities for flexibility and self pacing that homeschooling affords. Sounds like a midlife crisis, eh? LOL

This is a good point, Rosie. I agree that adapting to workloads and schedules is basically a habit thing that most people can accomplish with a little effort. Thinking for oneself, though... I sense that you're suggesting that is one of the benefits of homeschooling? I don't disagree with you, but that begs the question - are we saying that public school children never learn to think for themselves? That homeschool school children do learn that just because they're homeschooled? What is it that teaches a child to think for themselves? Why do we assume that that will inherently exist in the home of a homeschooled child but not in the home of a public schooled child? Okay, I realize I'm changing the subject here... LOL Additionally, about the comments made elsewhere in the thread about the schools being a place to turn out pegged factory workers, etc.... I don't think that's true anymore. I want to see some evidence to back that up. Because here in Houston, there is a big shortage of skilled workers - a really BIG shortgage. There have been several news reports about this recently. One of cited reasons is that high schools have become more and more college prep and have offered less and less vocational training. Around here it is absolutely untrue that the high schools are turning out the necessary skilled labor workforce. The linked article still resonates with me with regards to how, as a homeschooler, I have had pie in the sky ideas about homeschooling allowing us to chase after whatever interests us at the moment... that's nice, and like the author said, it's a sweet time indeed, but in reality dh has had to work his tail off to make that possible for us, and this is not a realistic lifestyle for dd unless she happens to marry well (financially). I really don't think that my dd knows what it means to *really* work hard to accomplish something... partly because she is very bright and everything comes easy to her... partly because she just hasn't been in an environment where she has had to do so (which is my fault I suppose, but again... I don't know how to artificially simulate said environment!).

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses! I'm struggling with balancing self discipline and structure with the exhortation you hear all the time not to do "school at home." I think it's because I am one of those parents who is quick to extend a deadline to squeeze in an impromptu field trip. I'm pretty sure if my dd went to school, she would have a hard time adjusting to expectations and deadlines, and the responsibility of taking down all her assignments, making sure she understood them, and the self discipline of getting them done. On time. Properly. Without constant nagging from me. FWIW, I think the "flexibility" that the author of the article is talking about is not the same sort of "schedule flexibility" we are talking about - she is talking about the baby boomer generation's tendency to not direct their children well and not helping them find a path to pursue, all for the sake of being flexible and keeping all options open. Thanks for the discussion. Much to think about!

Awwww... we love you too, you know. ((Pam)) You're going to make a fine nurse. ETA P.S. I know how it feels to be upset with yourself when you get emotional in a professional situation. It can be very, very frustrating. I'm sorry you're beating up on yourself right now.... you know, we all do the best we can and I'm sure every worker at the facility has been where you were yesterday at one time or another. Try to be kind with yourself and look forward, not back. ((Pam))

In another thread, I posted a link to a favorite article of mine by Frederica Mathewes-Green about how our culture doesn't really honor adulthood like it used to: http://www.frederica.com/writings/against-eternal-youth.html In this article, she says something that really sticks out to me as being a potential problem for homeschoolers. Talking about college aged Gen Xers: Particularly interesting to me was the sentence: Life after school turns out to have a lot of inflexible expectations, and children who’ve been raised on unlimited flexibility hit it like a brick wall. I'm going to admit that flexibility has not always been my friend. I have often cited it as a benefit of homeschooling, but to be honest... in hindsight... it has hindered as much as it has helped (if not more). What do you think? Do you agree with her? I do. But I'm not real sure what to do about it -- not in a homeschool. Would love to hear your comments... Robin

LUCKY!!!!!!! Oh, I'm so jealous of all three of you! Glad you had such a good time!!

Interesting you would say that.. one of the families I was referring to in my post is Italian. I agree that your way is better, too! Robin

I've been saying something similar for a while. I am close with a few families who are like this who have influenced my views (they place a high value on becoming adults, not on prolonging adolesence, and the kids typically get married younger because they are serious and getting on with their lives... the parent support system remains intact even to the point of financial support in the early years). This biggest influence on my views was an article in First Things a few years ago (I've posted this here link a couple of times before). It's worth the read: http://www.frederica.com/writings/against-eternal-youth.html

Erin, I am in Houston. There is a well networked group of homeschoolers in this city. If your mom or anyone in your family needs anything at all during her stay here, send me a pm or post it on this board and I will help make sure your needs are followed up on (as would several others on this forum who are also in the Houston area). Much love and prayers to you and your family. Robin

I will admit that I'm very reluctant to fault a guy for wanting custody of his son. I think that's the point Tammy was trying to make. Joanne, I feel awful that your family is going through all this. I hope that it resolves soon, peacefully, and with everyone's best interest considered. Like someone else said, maybe there's a silver lining to be found. Do you know why he asked for custody of just this one child? Isn't this the one that you've had problems with re: anger, etc? Is there any chance at all that living with his dad for a while could be of any benefit? Coud you talk to your xh about giving it a trial run this summer, and keeping the attorneys out of it for now? Maybe you can convince him that fighting in court and all the legal maneuvering isn't showing the children that their best interests are at heart... that fighting and winning is the point, not actually focusing on what is bes for the kids. Money spent on attorneys and courts is money that is needed for much better good, considering the underemployment in both households. Best wishes to you, Joanne.

How about painting the wall above the mantle an accent color? Someting that matches th sofas? You can bring in color with candles, too. Good luck. Sounds very pretty!

I don't know when or if Texas has ever executed anyone for rape. Certainly not in my adult lifetime. There is no large or popular movement to institute the death penalty for rapists in Texas. The one law that has been in the works for execution of child rapists was a law that also covers other issues... it would be more successful and receive more support if it allowed for life without possibility of parole. It is my opinion, based on what i've seen, that politicans are sticking in the death penalty part(here in Texas) for political reasons... trying to look tough on crime, etc. I haven't talked to anyone is completely comfortable with across the board execution of rapists... and I do agree with the justice who said that disallowing the death penalty for rape will give the rapist some incentive not to murder their victim. Everyone seems to agree that the death penalty would only be used if the crime was particularly heinous, but we all know that extremely heinous rapes of children usually result in the child's murder as well, and that qualifies for capital punishment. So, to answer your question, I am comfortable with the Supreme Court ruling on this. There are times when the country, as a whole, has to take a stand on an issue. I'm not saying that mistakes haven't been made, but I can think of a couple of instances where I am glad that the federal govt. has over ridden the states. It's not flawless but I do think the system is working the way it's supposed to and it's a good thing. I suppose one's view on the death penalty does taint their view on this, though... those who are very much for executing criminals for heinous crimes are going to be more upset that the federal govt won't let them do that, and those who are less supportive of the death penalty are going to be glad that the federal govt blocked this. I'm not sure it's possible to discuss this issue without your views of the death penalty affecting your opinion. All I know, is I want them off the streets, and I wish our legislators would put more effort into passing laws that lengthens sentences and removes the possibilitly of parole *now* instead of using the issue to maneuver for power from the Supreme Court.