So beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for sharing such a special connection.

Any "ah-ha" encounters to share?

So sweet. There's hope for humanity in this girl. May God preserve her sweet, forgiving spirit.

Tell me more, tell me more....

I don't know about that. Well of course there are imperfections in many of the Bible characters, I don't disagree with that, but, in the case of Jacob and Esau, Jacob is the favored one. I don't think it was because God wanted to work with his imperfections. It seems like he had some quality that was good. This gave me pause to think about why. I pondered this a long time, for years off and on.

A while ago I saw a story come across my Facebook. It was about Christian children in the Middle East who pray for their persecutors. I couldn't help but wonder about their home lives and what faith they were living in and with their families and within their communities. It's a wonder. Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

The children and I are going through Ancients this year, my favorite time period, so mysterious, and I'm reading aloud from a Children's Bible to revisit the old stories. In my own time, I'm listening to Search the Scriptures on Ancient Faith and digging deeper into the stories. I have fallen in love with an unlikely character, Jacob. I've always been fascinated by this story of a man who tricked his father in order to obtain his blessing, and the wrestling with God in the dessert, and working 14 years to marry Rachel. Why is this character an example in the Bible? Why is this behavior presumably good? Why did God prefer Jacob over Esau? I've been puzzling over this for years every time I have read, re-read or re-encountered this story. It's just in the last year or two that I have really grown to like Jacob, and now I really love him. What I really like about him is his determination to receive a blessing. He seems to know what is good and he will stop at nothing to obtain it, not like in a materialistic way, but of course I see this as a spiritual parallel. The blessing from his father, his inheritance, the blessing from the Angel of the Lord in the desert, Rachel: if you see these as types and shadows of the Kingdom of God then the story is so beautiful and Jacob is a hero of faith. I feel like his story teaches us what Jesus told us, about the violent taking the Kingdom by force. Who's your favorite Bible Character? Why? Do you have a love for any unlikely Bible characters?

I just read Brave New World for the first time. Reading about Transhuman ideals reminded me of that society.

If you know me, you know I really enjoy discussing religion, especially church history, but I also enjoy discussing philosophies, ideologies, social structures, and the like. Today I learned about a new philosophy, or some are calling it an emerging religion, Transhumanism. Why have I just heard about this? Apparently this is not a new movement. Is it a philosophy or a religion? Are the ideologies of this movement good for humanity? Do you see elements of this movement creeping into your religion or your social circles? I want to know your thoughts. (I'm horrified.) Here are a few articles on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism http://www.singularitysymposium.com/transhumanism.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zoltan-istvan/a-new-generation-of-trans_b_4921319.html And you can find much more with Google.

Introduction Leason 9

Another thing I learned and found interesting is about the putting together of the Hebrew Scriptures. It was a very long process. She talks about different stages of development. The first stage being when the events occurred, those of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the beginning of the Bible. The first date they can come up with is the dating of Abraham in 1800 or so BC and Moses in around 1250 BC. The next stage is the stage where the stories were written down which didn't occur until as late as 1000 BC. The third stage began when the Babylonians destroyed the Jewish Temple in the 500's BC, 580-540 ish, and they no longer had a place of worship. So, they turned to their writings and began to think of them as Holy Scripture. Of interest, she also mentions that the Jews were the first to have a Holy Scripture. This was a new concept.

I've been listening to the Search the Scripture podcasts in whatever free time I can squeeze out, and I found it interesting the way she explains the difference between "inspired" and "inerrant." Orthodox Christians believe that the Scriptures are "inspired" but not "inerrant." When we say inspired what we mean is that the authors of the Bible, or the origins of the story wherever they came from include the element of human cooperation with God in a synergistic relationship. Care to discuss the difference, and the different ways people approach the Bible? So, we are all on the same page as far as word definitions, here is a quick definition of each word: in·spired inˈspī(ə)rd/ adjective of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse. in·er·rant inˈerənt/ adjective incapable of being wrong.

Lots of good points ^^. As far as the "we know" he's wrong comments that I made, I was never presuming to know God's mind, but that "we know" Christian doctrine and teaching based on the councils and practices over time. I would never presume to know God's mind. Is that the same thing? I don't think so because we have doctrine, which includes a human element which can always include some obscurity to perfect light and knowing and we have God's mind, which is unknowable.

I was curious about his story because he's mentioned in the podcasts I linked earlier. From what I understand he had put years of trust in the inerrancy of Scripture, and after studying the manuscripts including their discrepancies and one thing led to another until he ceased to be Christian. Here's an audio interview where he tells his own story. http://cfvod.kaltura.com/pd/p/618072/sp/61807200/serveFlavor/entryId/1_ky0c2bee/v/1/flavorId/1_3pw4xtpo/name/a.mp3

Hmmm, I will try to find out for you. She's my friend on Facebook. Hehe.

I'm going through a series of podcasts right now which gives an extensive introduction to the Bible: what is the Bible, where did we get it, why should we study it...then she picks up in Genesis and goes verse by verse. It's a university course she teaches, modified slightly for Orthodox Christians, which means more detail on the Orthodox side. God willing she will go all the way to Revelation. She's up to Ezekiel now. She's a professor and a Phd in church history (I think) but very accessible, not dry, conversational. http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/searchthescriptures

So appropriate as we prepare to prepare for the nativity.

Is there a particular paragraph or passage you can share here?

I do not think it's used in an insulting way but to say that God humbled Himself so as to be described within the limitations of language for our sakes.

In studying the Bible recently, I came across a couple of new thoughts from of old. What do you think about these quotes from some early fathers in the faith? The great thinker Origen called the Bible God's “baby talk†to humanity, and St. John Chrysostom perceived Scripture as an expression of divine “condescension."

Ah, I can see that, possibly, rereading her post. My apologies Arctic Mama. I had read it as an invite to explain if there was a more specific topic on doctrine mentioned, which is why I queried about what were her particular Scriptural problems with the major topics addressed in councils 5-7.

I'm sorry you got me wrong here. I'm not "trying" anything. I was taking you up on your offer, copied here: "If there is a particular doctrine you'd like my opinion on I'll give it, though :)" If you changed your mind, that's ok. I can live with that. Though I was looking forward to your articulate Scripture based response, as offered. :( Oh well. Moving on...

I am starting a whole new spin off thread to discuss the Bible. Please join in if in your free will this is something you are compelled to do. I invite everyone who contributed (or lurked) here to continue the convo in a new thread dedicated to the discussion of the Bible.

^^ Big title. I wonder if it will show up in its entirety. Can we talk about the Christian Bible? I really <3 the study of church history and I would like to discuss the implications surrounding the fact that the putting together and establishment of the Scriptures we have today was a very long process. For one, it didn't take one meeting (council). Scripture was in use in the liturgy before it was what we would call officially "Scripture." And it wasn't until 400+ years after Christ that the Scriptures became an official canon. But it was a pretty organic process: Scriptures were used in some unity, and the councils were a good place to make official that which was already in use. Does this disturb anyone and if so, why and in what way and what do you want to "do with that?" I have heard it said by someone who's teaching was very instrumental in my Christian experience that he believed the Church had gone astray somewhere in the 200's or 300's and the forming of the canon "was a problem" to him, but he couldn't articulate in what way it was a problem. I would like to understand what problems folks have with the forming of the canon and what particular teachings, doctrine, etc would move someone to say the church went astray in the early 200's or 300's. So that we all have a very, very basic idea of what the process was like, here's a wiki on the subject: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Christian_biblical_canon Other more detailed articles / papers are welcome to be shared.