Hi, Jean gave you a very detailed reply but let me take a crack. (Jean, no, of course I dont mind if you jump in on a thread I start. For one thing, I don't camp out all day at WTM like *some people*! :) The whole sky appears to rotate from east to west each day because of the Earth's rotation. However, the Moon and planets actually are moving in their orbits from the west to the east. The Moon appears to move the fastest of all the "wanderers" in the sky, and completes a circle through the constellations in a month. The planets take longer to complete a circle. Jupiter takes 12 years, and moves through one constellation a year. Anyway, it sounds like you have been observing bright Jupiter rising in the eastern sky. This lunar month, since the last New Moon on August 20, the Moon had been moving towards the east from night to night. On Tuesday evening, the Moon was to the right of Jupiter, but by Wednesday evening, the Moon passed to the left of Jupiter. The Moon and Jupiter are actually very far away, but the Moon only passed near the same line of sight with Jupiter, and they appeared close in the sky. Jupiter didnt "jump," it was actually the Moon that jumped from Tuesday to Wednesday. The Moon moves east about 24 lunar diameters each day, or about one lunar diameter an hour. Yeah, it's hard to get this stuff straight. The only way is to consistently observe the sky, and make an effort to learn some constellations. Eventually, it starts to become clear. You'll soon lose sight of the Moon in the evening after it is full on Friday. But you can find it again in the early morning, after sunrise. The Moon will then be "waning," and each day will be a little thinner and a little closer to the Sun, until it again vanishes into the sunrise at the next New Moon. FWIW, I write a newsletter about this stuff, and have created a homeschool astronomy curriculum (which I can't discuss on list). Feel free to explore my site (link below) and send me a direct email if you have any other questions. Venus is blazing brightly as the morning star in the pre-dawn sky. The waning crescent Moon will pass Venus on the morning of Sept 16 -- always a pretty sight. Nope, Jupiter is there every night and will be for the rest of 2009. Watch it move toward the west in the coming months. Yep, you've been watching Jupiter. Again, it's there every single night, including tonight. Notice how far the Moon is tonight. take care, jay

You should read "The Disappearance of Childhood" by Neil Postman. Dr. Postman posits that childhood as a period of innocence and learning is a product of literacy, and appeared following the invention of the printing press. There was no such notion in medieval times, where 7 was defined as "the age of reason," after which one was expected to work and otherwise pull one's weight in adult society. Postman goes on to point out how the modern definition of childhood is eroding under the influence of television, where kids are now more adult-like, and adults are now more child-like. Written in 1982, but truer today then ever.

In case anyone remembers to look after dark, the gibbous Moon will be to the northeast of Jupiter tonight, as seen from the Americas. Jupiter is the bright "star" near the Moon. Yes, that's *really* Jupiter, it is the fourth brightest object in the sky, after the Sun, Moon and Venus (currently "The Morning Star" visible before sunrise.) If you're having clear weather today, be sure to remember to look after dark. You can spot these two in evening twilight as night falls and the pair should be spectacular during full nighttime. I regularly report on such planetary conjunctions in the Classical Astronomy Update, an email newsletter especially for Christian homeschoolers (though everyone is welcome!)

Scanning this thread, not sure why I want to chip in, being *only* a husband and a dad, but here goes... My maternal great-great-grandmother was married at 14 and gave birth to 10 children in the 1870s through the 1890s. Only three survived infancy. Meanwhile, my paternal great-grandmother married her husband (a widower with seven children) and in the 1910s had five pregnancies between the ages of 40 and 45, three of whom survived childhood (which was the period of the Spanish Flu epidemic). Anyway, for all 21 years of our marriage, my wife and I have practiced "natural family planning," (starting out with the "sympto-thermal method). Basically, my wife is very attuned to her monthly cycle and the accompanying signs of fertility. Using that, we have planned all five of our children and avoided pregnancy at the other times. We have never used any type of artificial contraception in 21 years. We are Christians and trust the LORD for our family and its size, and any unplanned children are welcome, if He so deems. That being said, we are grateful that the LORD has given my wife clear signs by which she can discern her fertility. We've learned that pregnancy is not a random or indeterminate process. As the breadwinner, I think the LORD gave us brains because He expects us to use them. The arithmetic of making babies is not different from the arithmetic of feeding babies. Given my income, it is already a struggle to meet the needs of five kids, can't imagine what it would be like with twelve or even more. But the LORD has always given us our daily bread, and we are grateful. Anyway, this is how we've been led, what anyone else does is between them and God.

The part I hated the most about 40 was losing my near vision and needing "granny glasses" to read. That REALLY stunk. But now that I'm pushing 50, I'm finding that all the other stuff is starting to go to pot.

(My two cents, but I'm just dropping a comment and probably won't be back anytime soon to view any replies.) In this debate, it's been pointed out that throughout all human history, in all cultures, from Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas, among cultures that had no contact for millennia, marriage had always been defined as between a man and a woman. Even in classical Greece where homosexuality was open and pervasive, a man would still have a wife. In most cultures, including non-Judaeo-Christian societies, marriage was understood to be between a single young man and a single young woman, with the expectation of a life-long commitment. The benefits of this arrangement for child-rearing and family continuity are evident to most people. Though homosexuality has always been around, I doubt if anyone can find a single example of any place or time in all history (prior to 2004) where two men or two women would presume to take a vow to make a life-long commitment in a marriage. It simply has never been defined in these terms anywhere, at any time. It takes our selfish, libertine generation to casually toss aside the precedent of 6000 years of recorded history at the whim of the politically correct "cause du jour."

Looks like Facebook and Twitter have had "denial of service" attacks today. Here's an article... http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/08/facebook-apparently-attacked-in-addition-to-twitter/

Scouting has been a blessing to our family. All three of my sons were Cub Scouts who received the Arrow of Light, and my daughter is an American Heritage Girl. Scouting gives the kids good direction, teaching useful skills, health and nutrition, citizenship, self-reliance, leadership, and a bunch of other great things, all while having fun. Cub Scouts isnt really an outdoor program, though Boy Scouts definitely is. I'm personally not very "outdoorsy" myself. I hate camping, or rather, I hate sleeping on the ground away from my comfortable bed, especially when it's cold and rainy. But the boys learn great skills on campouts (such as the above) and that's why scouts camp. Here's an article on homeschool scouting I wrote for TOS a few years back. Check out cub packs in your area, I'm sure you'll have a great experience as did we and all our friends. http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/How_To_Homeschool/articles/boy_scouting_and_homeschool.php

Oh yeah, if you want to use Metro a lot in the same day (ex, going to the zoo or Arlington) get one of those all-day Metro passes for everyone. Still very pricey by "outside the Beltway" standards, but still cheaper than paying one-way fares between multiple destinations.

I lived in DC for 6 years and played tour guide a lot. Our Boy Scout troop stayed at Greenbelt Park in Maryland. It's not far from the Beltway and Rt 201, and very near the College Park Metro -- longish walk but a short drive. There are showers and very cushy camping accommodations. As you know, everything in DC is free. Capitol tours require some planning in this post-9/11 world. Come and go to the Capitol from Union Station and have lunch there -- regular fast food prices, cheaper than the vendors. The Smithsonian is always a good bet. Everyone wants to see Air and Space but I personally like the National Gallery and Natural History. Forget the Washington Monument, the line is so long during tourist season. If you like a lot of walking, head to the Lincoln Memorial and stop at the Vietnam wall on the way. The Bureau of Printing and Engraving is off 15th St. near the Monument. If you're driving, be sure to check out the statue "The Awakening" at Haines Point, south of the Jefferson Memorial. Hope that helps, have fun!

Chaucer is a lot of fun in the original! Some of those literal phonetic spellings are hilarious! You could warm up with a facsimile edition of the 1611 KJV!

Everyone's different, but I read Dante a couple years back and thoroughly enjoyed it. Though the whole Divine Comedy is very long, those short cantos work wonders on my short American attention span! Meanwhile, Paradise Lost is quite short, there are only 12 long chapters. If there's an edition of Milton with page headers to remind you of who is speaking (God, Satan, Raphael) it would sure help for following the story! My mind would wander and then lose the thread. have fun!

I'm picking my way through Paradise Lost. Wow, this is a rough plow. The word pictures are very colorful, but it's hard to keep your mind on who is speaking, since these rambles go on and on for several pages. I tried reading Milton in the early 90s and gave up, and am now picking it up again. The book is replete with classical references, and I've read so much in the classics since the early 90s that I now appreciate it all the more. I seem to be catching more references these days than are indicated in the footnotes. Don't read Milton unless you've already read a lot in the ancient classics. I think Dante is much easier since the writing is less "dense" and the chapters (cantos) are short, maybe a page or two.

Lewis wrote some brilliant Christian apologetics and allegory, but he was professionally a professor and noted scholar of literature. He wrote a great deal of scholarly material, much of which is still cited today by other scholars in the field. So his total body of work was much broader in scope than just Narnia. It should also be considered that Lewis was what he was -- a cigar-smoking, cognac-sipping Anglican of the early-to-mid 20th century, who happened to write some very timeless Christian writings. Though many of his works remain very popular today with 21st century American evangelical Christians, he was definitely not one himself.

I've heard for years that the "experts" have decreed that teen sleeping habits, including staying up late and sleeping past noon, are all a normal part of the hormonal world of a healthy adolescent. It was sure the case when I was a teen in the 70s, I remember sleeping as late as 3PM. But that doesn't mean that these kids don't still need a swift kick in the pants to get their butts out of bed! http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15185.php

From my newsletter, here's my recollections of Apollo 11, including pix from our visit to Kennedy Space Center and seeing the rocket on the pad. http://www.classicalastronomy.com/news/anmviewer.asp?a=53&z=21

My degree is in physics and here's my angle: "Classical physics" began essentially with Isaac Newton and continued through scientists like Maxwell in the late 1800s. It presumes to study the properties of matter and energy and physical quantities that we can observe "in the real world" (i.e., on our level of perception). This research led to the modern fields of mechanics, electrical systems, and optics. "Modern physics" began with workers in the late 1800s like the Curies who were observing phenomena such as radioactivity that appeared to violate the established laws of physics (e.g., conservation of energy). In studying the micro world, these workers were able to discover the nature of the atom and understand the counter-intuitive rules that govern the behavior of very small particles. This research led to modern chemistry, solid state semiconductors (e.g., computers) and of course, atom bombs and nuke plants.

1984 is one of only two books that I've read three times. The last time I read it was in 1984 when I was 23, but it has stayed with me all these years, especially as I've watched the media and the political process become increasingly "Orwellian." You have to consider that Orwell was not a very great storyteller and that his books are simply metaphorical vehicles for his political messages. The point isnt about Winston Smith or Julia or any of the characters, so the "chick movie" aspect of the story is irrelevant. What I ponder after all these years is how the state can control individual thought by controlling the language. By shortening the dictionary, the people's ability to articulate certain thoughts is shortened. (Consider today's acronyms). Replacing emphatic emotional terms with generic ones (e.g. double-plus good) removes the ability to even think emphatic thoughts. By removing terms from the language, they remove the very concept from the collective memory. We routinely see the media (i.e. the Ministry of Truth) rewriting old news stories or just throwing them into the "memory hole." We routinely see the media call good evil and evil good. I'm sorry to say, but in 1948, Orwell wrote a prophetic social commentary that has become an operating manual for the news media. So anyway, once you get over the ending ("He loved Big Brother"), spend some time pondering the concepts and you'll come to appreciate the value of 1984.

My three sons have been in scouting since Tiger cubs. Our 15yo is a Life scout, needing to finish two badges and a project for Eagle. Our 13yo has just completed Life and our 11yo has completed Second Class. We have found scouting to be a wonderful fit for our homeschooling. However, I don't agree that MBs should be done in lieu of a formal subject. IMHO MBs should be extracurricular, and certainly can augment (but not replace) an existing course in e.g. biology. Here's an article I wrote a while back on homeschool scouting. http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/How_To_Homeschool/articles/boy_scouting_and_homeschool.php

When I was born again in 1980, I used to say "good luck" and got lectured all the time from Christians. I don't think I believed in random chance even before becoming a Christian, it was just an expression, a figure of speech. At the time it was explained to me to not talk about being "lucky" but rather being "fortunate," so as to create some sort of distinction. I've since learned that the Roman goddess Fortuna is styled as "Lady Luck" in our culture, and that the distinction between "luck" and "fortune" is purely semantic. Anyway, I think many Christians in their devotion go around making a lot of such issues. I've come full circle on that one, and no longer consider it a big deal when someone, especially a Christian, innocently says "good luck" or being "lucky." If anyone is generally concerned about pagan influences in our culture, one would have to live in a cave to keep oneself pristine.

Hi Myra, I just happened to be breezing through WTM and saw your post. No, I didn't create a schedule for S&S, though some moms have asked about that. The goal of the course is to directly study the sky, and since I can't schedule clear weather for all locations, there's no practical way to lay out a daily/weekly/monthly schedule. Instead, I've recommended that families try to capitalize on the clear skies in the warm season and perhaps treat S&S as a summer course. If you have any other questions, please send me a direct email since I may not be back at WTM for a while. thanks, jay

IMHO, I dont go for the student's standard argument, "what am I going to do with XYZ someday when I'm working?" That's not the point of a liberal arts education. As a physics major, I don't think the disclipline would harm a poetry major, and in my own degree, I had to take "artsy" classes that helped make me a well rounded person and able to hold semi-intelligent conversations on a variety of subjects. I hope that others here at a classical chat board would agree.

A friend of mine (who is a public school teacher) says its physically normal for teens to want to stay up late and sleep late. Something to do with their hormonal state or some such thing. Anyway, I have a 15yo that fills the bill and I was that way myself as a teen -- none of which makes it any less annoying!

Eliana, sorry, I'm just visiting WTM again today and havent been back since this thread was "fresh." I'll try to answer your questions. I think the answers to your questions depend on how easily offended you are by Christianity. I tried to present the topics in a frank, academic manner, but I don't feel that I proselytized in the text. But I'm a Christian writing for a Christian audience and therefore cannot promise that you won't find something you won't like. You might be pleased by the discussion of the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical and astronomical basis thereof -- something I find is poorly understood by many modern Jews. For example, Passover (14 Nisan) always falls at the Full Moon of spring. However, I also show very matter-of-factly that Easter follows the Passover and has similar astronomical rules. There is also a discussion of the Gregorian calendar that mentions Pope Gregory XIII. I wondered if some evangelical Christians might be offended by this and other references to Roman Catholicism, but Gregory is presented as a historical personage and hopefully we can all agree on that. S&S documents sources in the form of lengthy literary quotations, and though they are not footnoted or endnoted, the sources are listed in a detailed bibliography. A five page PDF sample can be found at the S&S page of our web site, linked below in my footer. FWIW, while writing, I anticipated a number of complaints from various offended parties, but havent really received many. A number of Jewish readers have enjoyed S&S and said good things about it, without agreeing with every particular. Here's some articles I've written in my newsletter that might give you an idea of my approach. "The Astronomy of Easter" was written in 2003 and was adapted into the Epilogue of S&S. The Astronomy of Easter http://www.classicalastronomy.com/news/anmviewer.asp?a=39&z=13 The Paschal Moon (Previously titled "The Astronomy of Passover") http://www.classicalastronomy.com/news/anmviewer.asp?a=19&z=15 Is Easter Pagan? (might also give you an idea of my approach) http://www.crosswalk.com/homeschool/11601857/ Hope that helps, please feel free to drop me an email off-list if you have any specific questions. Thanks for your interest, jay

I have the Modern Library edition of the Dryden translation. Got it a while back for $20 -- a good bargain at 1300 pages!