Can anyone tell me what you think of R&S's writing instruction? My son is in third grade. I am finding that using R&S English along with copywork and dictation is plenty for him at this time. I had thought we would use Classical Writing starting next year, but now I'm not so sure. He is doing very well with R&S. It seems like most everyone here who uses R&S for grammar uses something else for writing. I haven't seen any levels of R&S beyond Grade 4. Do the upper levels provide a complete writing program or do I really need to use something else? Does R&S teach outlining? Any info. would be appreciated! I really like R&S and it seems complete to me, but I haven't seen those upper levels.

I believe that the general consensus on the WinterPromise message board and Yahoo group, is that it is more culture than geography but enough geography for the recommended ages. I believe the focus is on the weekly cultural experiences that you plan for and with your children. I haven't used CAW but am using another WP program. WP is very easy to teach. There is some planning ahead since there are crafts and lots of activities, but not overwhelming if you enjoy that sort of thing. My sister has used a year of WP. She has been very happy with it. Be sure to send your questions to the message board on their web site or the yahoo group.

Isn't TOG a history curriculum? I know it has alot of great literature, but isn't it just for history? MFW is a complete curriculum. So, you could consider that. What do you need? I've used MFW K, First Grade, and Adventures. I am now using Sonlight which I've previously used for a year and a half (before ever starting MFW). I like MFW very much. It's easy to use, very simple. TOG looks very complicated to me but I always thought I'd give it a closer inspection when my boys get older. I don't know though because we are feeling very much at home with SL. I'm very happy with it and right now, I'm thinking we will stick with it. For the ages of your children, you should look at SL if you haven't already. The books are so much fun. My boys love all of them. TOG looks so deep. I'm sure it is wonderful but we are having FUN with SL. They are all good. I didn't need the entire MFW package and to be honest, it became increasingly boring to me. I was bored, and I needed something that would interest me more.

WTMCAssandra, could you tell me what outlining workbook you are using and how it is going?

This year, I made some changes here and there and went back and forth on a few things. I've now settled on the materials that I can trust to provide what I need as a teacher and the children need to learn and remain engaged. I think I just had to try some different things to be sure that my original choices were good ones! So, we've gone back to some things I had dropped and everything is really clicking for us. As far as really looking FORWARD to each day, our SL books have had the most impact on us. I'm reading Egermeier's Bible Story Book to both of the boys. Both of them listen to this quite thoughtfully and enjoy talking about the stories. We have enjoyed every read aloud that we have ever read from our SL stuff. They look forward to their SL science - they like all of it: the books, DVD, and experiments. I truly love MathUSee and R&S for both spelling and grammar. I recently told my oldest son that we were doing school while we were doing our SL reading for the day. He said, "Are you joking? SL is school?" It was so cute and sweet.

My oldest does one page of Handwriting Without Tears plus some copywork and/or dictation most days. For the copywork and/or dictation, I use the books that he is reading (mostly Sonlight Grade 3 readers) or Bible verses. He also does the writing in R&S English. My youngest does one page of HWT almost every day. He just began a little bit of copywork. I use short sentences from books that he can read. He doesn't do the copywork as often as the HWT. I plan to continue to do both HWT and copywork/dictation.

I have tried MFW K two different times with two different children. I really did like it, but we fizzled out on it both times. That is no reflection on the program, it is super but not what I really needed for K. However, I have taught MFW 1st with GREAT results and will definately use it again next year with my current Ker. I think I will scale back on the copywork a bit this next time around, but other than that I'll use it just like I did before. When we used it, I also used FLL, HWT and ETC alongside it. No, this absolutely is not necessary but I just love all three of those resources and we had begun them in K. So, I just continued them and it worked well. I am very relaxed with my boys for both K and First, so it was not overwhelming to use all those different things. We just did what we wanted to do each day and kept plugging away. I think if you like K, you will probably love First Grade. It has a different feel than K. The phonics lessons are very effective. About mid-way through, it all clicked for my son and his reading just took off. Way before he finished the First Grade, he could read his KJV Bible all on his own. He could read just about anything really. You don't need ETC with First, but I enjoyed using it. I used ETC for those days when we didn't want to do much work but I thought he would benefit from a few minutes of phonics practice. I used HWT the same way. Just for those days when we weren't going to get around to "school" and he could do those lessons quickly. The book list in First Grade has titles on both math and science topics. My local library had alot of those. We also read many books on nature study type topics. Nature study goes along with First very well. We read many of the Thornton Burgess books and poems that focused on nature. I didn't use anything else for math. Just the MFW lessons and the living math books. I really like the math and it was just what we needed. My current Ker is already using MathUSee, so he will use that with MFW but again, it isn't necessary. My son LOVED the timeline and it is still up to this day! He is in 3rd grade now. Many times, my younger son has asked when he will get to start his. He also says he wants to read the Bible himself and I tell him he will use the Bible Reader next year and then he will be able to read the actual Bible before he knows it. So, I highly recommend it... especially if you like K.

Laurel, I am heartbroken. We have all lost a member of our family. All of us are sad and we will miss Rudy so much. I feel stunned. I was so happy that we had just gotten a new friend for Rudy. I just can't believe the timing on this. I think the animal shelter idea is really great. I am especially praying for your awesome DH - he is so compassionate towards animals. I have always thought he should be doing some work at a shelter. I love you guys so much! You should post a picture of Rudy. That would be nice. He was a beautiful and sweet dog. Praying for you all, your sister.

We used Adventures in My Father's World from MFW for second grade. It is also appropriate for third graders. It's a complete curriculum so it includes more than just history. We liked it very much. It's just a one-year, sort of brief, overview of American history. The child makes a timeline and does a bit of notebooking... writing down their summaries of the history lessons. It also includes some simple activities and a huge book list in the back of the TM for additional reading material. Everything is very structured and laid out for you in an easy to follow schedule. Depending on how many of the books from SL Cores 3 and 4 you have read, it may not have as much depth as you desire. It really is intended to be a brief overview for younger children... to give them a foundation in American history before getting into the history cycle later on (at which point they would begin to study history from creation).

A man in our area recently threw his four very young children off of a very tall bridge into a gulf. Needless to say, they did not survive. The oldest was just a preschooler. Absolutely gorgeous children... with huge smiles in all the pictures that have been published. It stunned me that this story, to my knowledge, never made the national news. I agree with everything you said, Rhondabee. The Bible says that in the last days, there would be no natural affection... and the love of many would grow cold. I think that is what we are observing.

I would start with Alpha. I guess the placement test is the best way to decide, but if she has done some of Saxon 1, she will be ready for Alpha for first grade. Technically, MUS does not assign "grade levels" to their courses. Some start Alpha in first grade. I didn't start my oldest son in Alpha until second grade. And, as you have learned with your son, sometimes when students switch from another program to MUS, they will need to start at a level that you would think is below their grade level... but, it's not really a grade level, it's a skill level. I guess it would go both ways, and sometimes a child would place "above" the grade level that they have been working at. MUS is deep... but not wide. The child will concentrate on less variety of topics (less than most other math programs), but will cover them thoroughly. But, it is wider than it has a reputation for. It doesn't teach just one concept for a whole year. It focuses on one concept but other things are covered, too. And, eventually, everything is covered - and, to mastery. My five year old son is using Primer now. I really like it, and he does, too. But, if he had started MUS in first grade (rather than K), I would have started him in Alpha. I placed my older son is Alpha when he began second grade because I wanted him to have a quicker recall of the basic facts. He has an excellent memory but we had not used a curriculum that was conducive to memorization... it seemed more hit or miss. MUS is so logical. It is orderly and systematic in presentation. That's why I decided to try it and that's what will keep us using it.

It's very likely that she just needs a little time. Some of the moms that I know don't even start math at all until third or fourth grade. For K and 1st, my oldest son just played games (like Uno, Yahtzee, Sum Swamp and other commercially produced games), played with puzzles, maze and dot to dot books, glued beans to popsicle sticks (to make tens bars), made patterns with blocks and buttons, sorted rocks according to their attributes, listened to me reading math books that we got from the library, memorized skip counting songs using One Hundred Sheep Skip Counting tape, and worked very basic addition and subtraction worksheets using beans, played dominoes... etc. We started MUS in 2nd grade and he did fine with it, but it really wasn't until the beginning of 3rd grade that the math lightbulb went off for him. He now is doing great and really likes MUS. He is very smart and gifted in some areas, he just needed some extra time for math to click.

Well, the really important things for a first grader to accomplish are learning to read (and enjoy it!) and strengthening his/her handwriting skills. FLL is good and alot of it can be done orally. I wouldn't consider it essential, but it's fun if you have the time to fit it in. ETC is good, too. I love R&S but I personally would not start a first grader with it. Second grade is just right to begin R&S... maybe even third if the child still needs to work on phonics and handwriting. These are my favorite LA resources for that age: absolute favorite - My Father's World First Grade (it is a complete program including a thorough LA program, but also includes math, Bible, science, art...) Handwriting Without Tears Explode the Code Phonics Pathways Alpha Phonics First Language Lessons copywork from easy readers and Bible verses - unless using the copywork in FLL. I also like GWG very much. We dropped R&S for awhile and tried GWG. My son really liked it. However, about mid-way through the book (he was using book 3), I went back to R&S because he understood the way that R&S explains things better, I found that I like having him keep an English notebook rather than just doing workbook pages, and he didn't seem to be retaining the info. in GWG as well as with R&S. I haven't used GWG 1/2, but think I would prefer FLL. We love the poems in FLL and the CD that goes along with it.

I use R&S and we do it daily. I haven't added a formal writing curriculum yet. For now (3rd grade), we're just doing one, sometimes two, R&S lessons and either copywork or dictation, everyday. He works on language arts (including spelling) for about 30 minutes a day. Maybe 45 if he is dragging his feet.

I'm not sure what you have in mind, but you may look at Rod & Staff Spelling by Sound and Structure if you haven't already done so. My oldest started R&S Spelling in 2nd grade. He loves it and it's one of the things in our curriculum that I could never imagine doing without. The words are not hard at that level, but the exercises are very valuable. Grades 2 and 3 reinforce the sounds in the words. In 4th grade, they begin to learn spelling rules. I plan to stick with R&S for all of the levels. I love how word root studies are included in the upper levels. The words on the lists have not been difficult at this point, but I have found he is able to transfer his knowledge to other words and it is really developing his confidence (he is just now beginning to enjoy writing).

Both of my sons love MUS. I didn't start my oldest in MUS until second grade. I started him in Alpha because I thought he needed the practice in order to have his basic facts thoroughly memorized. I am so glad I did that because he is now zooming through Beta and will begin the next level soon. My Ker is doing Primer. Looks like he will be ready for Alpha in about a month. I wish I had started my oldest son out with MUS from the beginning. During his K and 1st grade years, we used Singapore, some Miquon, and some lessons from Making Math Meaningful. I wanted a math curriculum that stressed understanding, but none of those were a good fit for us. I am glad they love math and want to do their work. I plan to stick with MUS for the long-term. I love the mastery approach, the DVDs, the uncluttered workbook, everything. They seem to be enjoying it more and more, not less. Everytime they get to do something new, they are excited and eager to move forward. Rather than being scared of new material, they are confident.

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You know, it's funny how different perceptions can be. One of the reasons that I continue to consider MFW is because I feel so confident that, with MFW, there will be no gaps and that my children will cover everything that needs to be covered... especially in regards to writing. MFW never leaves you guessing. And, they don't ask the child to complete an assignment that he/she hasn't been prepared for. I think MFW provides me more peace of mind in this area than SL. I believe that Intermediate Language Lessons (MFW's suggestion for English) covers some outlining. And, MFW includes the resources needed to teach the child to write a report. Also, with all the copywork, dictation, notebook summaries, and narrations, there really is plenty. MFW is so well organized. I'm not as confident about this with SL. I tried SL language arts in the past and found it to be very confusing. I may end up trying the new LA. But, I really like R&S. So, I'll have to come up with my own assignments to go along with the cores AND be sure that I'm being realistic about my child's abilities. You don't have that issue with MFW. I plan to put both children in ECC after next year. My youngest will be a second grader and my oldest will be in fifth grade. I already have ECC but I've decided to wait on it. Also, by doing it this way, my oldest will be older (duh) and I can add in some of SL Core 5 for him.

I've used both at different times and sometimes at the same time!! Both are a good fit for our family. Next year, I'll be teaching MFW to my youngest and SL to my oldest. Eventually, they will both be in MFW again. Then, I plan to have both of them back in SL. If my children were closer together in age, we would most likely stick with SL for just about everything... except, first grade. I think MFW First Grade is the absolute best. I love it and can't wait to teach it again next year. Well, my sons are three years apart, and that's a difficult age span for SL. It's possible to keep them in the same core for some of the years, but probably not all. There are many things to consider when making your choice. Not the least of which is the cost. MFW is so affordable and so complete. I'm not sure how SL would stretch your child more than MFW. Maybe you mean by exposing your child to certain content that is not so much focused on with MFW? Well, I dropped Core 1 with my oldest because he began to have nightmares after seeing some of the pictures in one of the books that SL uses for Core 1. He was GREATLY distressed by some of the content of Core 1. That's why I switched him to MFW. MFW ministered to his heart in a way that SL couldn't.

I'll have a first grader next year. He will be using My Father's World First Grade along with MathUSee Alpha. I will also use some of the lessons in First Language Lessons, but not all of them. MFW First Grade will most likely be enough for him, but if he needs additional practice with phonics or handwriting, he'll use Explode the Code and Handwriting Without Tears. I also plan to use Sonlight Science C (the old K) with him because he loves SL science and begs for it. And, I'll continue using read alouds from SL with him as he'll be sitting in on his older brother's Sonlight Core (Core 1+2) when he wants to. And, he'll play soccer.