I did not find your post unreasonably “political”. My comment was because sometimes it seems that one person makes a post and then someone commenting with a dissenting view is accused of being “political”. So that these forums end up being a one sided echo chamber. If some moderator finds mine objectionable they should look at yours too.

@Elizabeth86 I am sorry for your and your loved ones loss. @desertflower Not denying that people are dying. Many of us are similarly waiting for the majority of people to wake up and understand that the jabs do not work to stop infection, transmission, nor even in many cases severe illness. But even losing someone close who is fully vaccinated or seeing robust young footballers keeling over on the pitch - sometimes videotaped - seems to do nothing to wake people up to the jabs being neither as effective nor as safe as generally claimed. (And Imo a response to your post like this is no more “political” than your own post. It has seemed for a long time that WTM allows “political” posts as long as they are on the side that WTM and the majority of its moderators support. ) The bird pic is intended for emotional and spiritual uplift, the other two for content. I am not sure there is actually significantly more Covid with more people vaxxed as the drawing shows - but as the map shows it isn’t significantly lessening as expected. Season and geography seem more important than jab rate.

What I was trying to convey was that I personally know people who have been helped without monoclonal antibodies. In fact I don’t personally know of any irl people I know who have had monoclonal antibodies at all. I agree that the idea of anything in itself as a magic cure all, one size fits all, tends to be wrong. I think the groups of items taken together for CV could be equated to a headache formula plus personal protocol (perhaps flexible) such as one I take which has acetaminophen plus aspirin plus caffeine all together (and one version has potassium also) in a powder plus some additional supplements one of which may be Vitamin C interestingly enough given your example. Vitamin C can help to reduce histamine problems for me, thus if a headache has a histamine aspect - histamine intolerance or an allergic aspect for example - that can be a reason for Vitamin C helping - and possibly more help at root rather than just symptoms blocking. I personally have not had a headache solved by vitamin C alone, but I do actually know some people who do have headaches that are solved by vitamin C alone. I also know a few people who get headaches as a vitamin C side effect. Can Vitamin C have pain relief aspects ? Yes. There’s mounting evidence for it as analgesic as well as histamine reducer and also very low C can of course cause painful scurvy (and possibly suboptimal C can cause pain without actual clinical scurvy) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › 28410599 ... accumulating evidence indicates that vitamin C administration can exhibit analgesic properties in some clinical conditions Various B vitamins also have a role ime. and the synergistic mixed formula I take works best when it gets some absorption at the mouth stage plus gets a few other supplements with it. So it isn’t just ingredients but also how it is taken. Again, the effect is synergistic amongst several ingredients none of which alone seems to work for me—and also the way it is taken matters. And what works best may be different for different people as where someone having histamine intolerance as part of their headache might be helped by vitamin C and someone else might not be. What works for you if you have a headache might not for me and vice versa. I also think that for CV as with headache treatment hitting it early rather than waiting till it’s severe works best. And does it work 100% or 100% of time? No. And I think that similar is also true for Ivermectin (or hydroxychloroquine/zinc etc) protocols. Synergy and exactly how it’s done has importance. We are often dealing with synergy and more nuance and with medicine as in large part a human healing art, not a simplistic robotic “take this for that”. Like it might be a protocol is to use Ivm along with ___ early unless contraindicated in which case use ____ and then if ___ then add ___ as some of the practitioners have done and as they have been discovering things and sharing information. I think the someone in your hypothetical attributing full improvement to the Vitamin C is not logical. And I also think a dismissive failure to understand that Vitamin C may have some significant analgesic aspects, or help a headache if histamine is involved (and perhaps other ways it may help too) is also illogical. That is, an implication that obviously it must have been the Tylenol and not the vitamin C that was solely helpful. anyway, as with Vitamin C as having aspects that could contribute to headache relief, so too (and perhaps way more strongly so) there is plenty of evidence available for Ivermectin if one chooses to look for it rather than to dismiss

I do not know anything about the doctor in the video. I do know a number of people who have had (“anecdotal” yet very important to the individual and family members) very excellent responses to Ivermectin protocols (often a group of things not Ivm alone, sometimes Ivm alone ) and without any monoclonal antibody treatment. The action, subjectively, seems to be a very clear medicine / supplements dose taken leads to improvement response experience. What I mean by dose leading to response is like if you have ever experienced reduction of pain after taking aspirin or acetaminophen, it subjectively feels pretty obvious that the medicine is having an effect. And this has included high risk people. that sense of “how can people look at things logically and think the way they think?” cuts both ways though you may not realize it

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR3Pd274AVDeLCGSzpx83wpovokxJmDWJZS52LVmV8OQQcmmRLA8dFrTums

I’m sorry that you and your family are having these problems. I JAWM with you that what is going on in the world is very stressful and driving horrible wedges . Bad enough when it’s between people on an Internet forum. So much worse when in families or between former friends. I have no idea about any particular percent better for natural immunity versus protection from vaccination, but generally natural immunity has long been considered the best there is for various reasons, including because the immune system is primed to recognize all of a germ, not just one segment. I realize there are lots of conflicting reports however . And I realize that that causes terrible stress and divisive situations, especially when family members embrace different views. And holidays often bring out stress even in less fraught times. I pray you and your family will manage to heal from all this and to feel blessings and thanksgiving and joy and connection over the holidays season! Happy Thanksgiving to you!

you might find this of interest too -

Wow!!! I am so impressed by all you are doing!!! Inspired to so far as my circumstances permit!

i saw that on some public available articles i think speculative reason I saw is that lack of oxygen — not so much lung oxygen issue as a blood oxygen issue so essentially all tissues, mitochondria, red blood cells ... - may be a chronic problem in long Covid

glad clarity returning and hope for good by tomorrow !!! And then even better Wednesday!

ty ! 👍 no idea why. someone I know dealing with frozen shoulder months later says she wished she’d kept moving through the pain - guess she was told that might have helped? Probably most people have no idea that meclizine or something like that could help

I’ve never taken meclizine, but it sounds interesting to consider if needing an antihistamine. I did also see it in some CV19 or CV19 vax list - dont recall any details i would be interested in your foods to get rid of heavy metals info - how you did it - when you are up to it

HBOT would not cause more heavy metals or graphene or whatever type stuff could conceivably be in vax stuff or just in body to get into cells along with Oxygen could it? increased blood pressure does also sound like a concern . Idk but getting oxygen in to cells and inflammation down seem like they’d be good ??? Do your doctors just leave it to you to schedule? Or have suggestions for when and what to look for? methyl levels changes is interesting idea even if you were partly joking

Wish you could have been a no bad effects at all person - but at least sounds like you’re managing! Hang in there! Have heard of not only falls, but also car crashes following vax and brain involvement so that I expect someone will be driving for you for safety More HBOT sessions sounds like a promising plan to me - no idea in timing . If it helps I’d think as much as is helpful would be good! there probably is not data on timing I’d probably be inclined towards sooner (3 days if that’s what they said) rather than later - can you think of harm for hbot at 3 days rather than a week? I am sure you know much more about HBOT both personal reactions and reading pub med etc than I do. to me I’d think getting your medical team weighing in as soon as possible if they are willing to help would be a good idea. Neither CV19 nor vax reactions IMO seem like the present prevailing idea of waiting to be a hot mess is a good idea. I wonder if HBOT would help others for other post vax problems or long term Covid too? ( @Plum ? Have you looked at HBOT? I think there have been a few small trials with it posdibly relevant to your dh? ) Speculatively, just surmise, it seems like achieving excellent oxygen perfusion via HBOT could help a lot of people with oxygen perfusion CV type issues and probably much more safely than intubation. again just my thinking out loud as it were: I wonder what result would have been if hospitals early on had asked for lots of HBOT units for early HBOT treatment rather than lots of ventilators for late stage ventilator treatment

chilling seems like a really good idea!!! if you think you are having a reaction maybe contact your doctor? You mentioned before that you thought you might need meds to keep down inflammation? screens probably do not help and probably especially not if it’s small print and name calling etc that might be in this thread? Seems to me that would increase anxiety type feelings. Otoh I and others too here I expect want to know how you are doing! I’d think best would be to Stay home and in safe spot and with people to check on you in case you do get a side effect problem, and maybe listen to a fun audio book or something to give distraction without having to visually focus on a screen or maybe go outside if you have a nice place to be with out driving — if outside and plants help your anxiety ? I like green plants and nature! Do you have a sweet dog or cat to pet? That’s supposed to help heart rate and brain waves afaik. i wonder if something like 5HTP or inositol would be ok on top of recent vax ?

@PeterPan no idea about turmeric in your circumstances but if it normally keeps your asthma controlled might be a good thing to try to research if you can keep taking it as usual or not with regard to the illness CV19 there were various things on turmeric about stages it was good to take it — and other stages to avoid it and I can’t recall if it was good early but not late or vice versa or maybe good middle but neither late nor early

the main thing I have heard people say they thought helpful was to stay well hydrated I guess good hydration is important in general anyway and I expect you are already up on all the regular things like vitamin D and C and K and A and E and magnesium and glutathione and doing all the right things with regard to your personal methylation So you are probably as good as you can be! I didn’t pay any particular attention to ibuprofen recommendations. What is the view on aspirin in re clotting issues as well as pain if any? one person I know got frozen shoulder and said in retrospect she thought she should have kept moving it even though it hurt— but I haven’t looked into any of that the person I know who had had the bad tbi had no reaction at all afaik to vax - not even local pain . I hope you will be in that same category.

maybe not I am genuinely interested in knowing answers that I asked I have fully supported a number of people who I know personally in that vax seemed to be best personal decision for them. I do not believe in a “one size fits all” approach whether that’s toward vax or toward other options. And I also think some decisions like Dr Bergen’s to both vax and also take vitamin D, etc make sense for his own circumstances as he has described them I support @PeterPan in her decision and hope it continues to go well for her I found TCB much more reasonable and persuasive in her reply than I find yours

good - glad you aren’t having side effects at least not yet and maybe will not at all! did you say you chose Moderna?

ok thank you for this well expressed and thoughtful sounding reply - are you comfortable saying what general location you are in? And are you comfortable saying any more about the people dying? What types of treatment they got and how early it was started? Other factors like obesity, vitamin D status etc? Do you think doctors who say their protocols have significantly reduced CV19 mortality rates are lying? Or if not, what is your explanation?

I am not trying to persuade you or @PeterPanetc not to get vaccinated. When I say “do research” or similar I literally mean that because I think it makes whatever decisions people make more personally “owned” and to have less regrets whatever is the outcome. If you mean if I were to be very sick with CV19 would I be moaning like we hear in media some people do that they wish they had gotten vaccinated ? No. I do not expect so. I think for myself my research, discussion with doctors, etc, means I feel I have made the best decision for myself that I could make. What about you if you find out in future that you were wrong ? And have you administered the CV19 vax shots to people or just attended CV19 patients in hospitals if I correctly understood that you are an HCW?

@PeterPan some of the MI testimony like these may offer you a different perspective, perhaps a drop of compassion for people who think differently than you do / and differently than most of Wtm active posters do I am not trying to dissuade you from getting vax - but do expect of you less anger towards HCW who do not share your perspective . We have been communicating for years on Wtm and I do not think the anger toward HCW who do not vax fits you but rather is driven by fear and lack of hearing enough other perspectives with a more open heart anyway, may you do well with your choice, And have little or no reactions and side effects, and not get the both A and B double whammy 🕊

I meant longer space could lead to more/stronger immune system stimulation/reaction - was not meaning allergic type reaction as to PEG etc more immune system stimulation/reaction is not always positive - afaik one really wants a right amount - like Goldilocks - of immune system activity, not too little which can fail to address the situation, but not too much which can go towards cytokine storms, autoimmune flares etc I do not disagree with that. I know some people who have had bad reactions. Some very bad. And I also know people who have had close to zero reaction at all . I agree with what you wrote. But I do not think the problem was limited to having given vax to people who had already had Cv19 There are graphs of sharp upticks in CV19 and in death rates even in places where there had been almost no cv19 prior to vax programs I think that huge roll out of vax program during active epidemic would be likely to cause strains already in existence and more able to withstand the vax to proliferate and become dominant. And would tend to drive mutations in the direction of worse strains — rather than the classic natural course of a germ becoming more mild in the population. It’s pretty much basic immunology to expect something like delta or strains even more able to evade vax to become rampant in such circumstances. And rather than protect those unable to get the shots it can easily have opposite effect of surrounding people with proliferation of more dangerous strains that can worse affect the un vaxxed including those who cannot vax. Could be a worsening spiral if new forms of vax target the new worse strain of germ and allow proliferation of yet more tough pathogens ... In addition to other aspects beyond what fits discussion here I think ours may be more sensible! Not like what you describe at all! But then I tended to already have gravitated towards holistic leaning dentists, doctors etc. when I could. Consider some other aspects. Dentists’ typical body mass. Iodine. (https://www.dentistryiq.com/dentistry/article/14187476/molecular-iodine-as-a-new-frontline-defense-against-covid19-in-the-dental-office ), Air purification, etc etc etc

a bit- more as to blood types and secretory IgA etc and things pertinent to my own and family members situations. I think if for whatever reason you have people where you know their risk is higher whether diabetes or obesity or genetics or poor immunity that would all make sense to be weighted in making logical decisions as best you can Igot more interested in things like why there was so little Covid amongst dentists - even ones who stayed open - and what they were doing And what could be learned and used personally from that As well as overseas approaches. Etc. And again what could be learned and used personally Eta: And some doctors in my own family have chosen to vax and others not to vax and I have listened to their reasons and discussions.

it can go the other way too though and a longer spacing may elicit *more* reaction - which could help in people who tend to have low reactions like elderly, but possibly be a problem if people are tending to have strong reactions. the person I know who had had major tbi I think might have gotten Janssen so I guess not spaced if that’s true ... otherwise I only really know people well who got the US spacing regimen if they got 2 dose vax