Take a second to re-read what I just bolded. Now re-read this part of your initial post. You were wrecked (and felt as if you would never heal, due, in part, to a "spiritual quagmire"). You met someone who was wrecked (and made it through to the other side, due, in part, as far as he was concerned, to faith). You could see no goodness in God. You met someone who told you that God wanted to be #1 for everyone. Someone told you that last bolded bit... and you mention that you feel you've had poisoned relationships and a severe doubt surrounding your soul. So I guess the last question(s) I would ask would be: have you put God first in your life over earthly things? (eg: was that one of the changes that occurred) I hate that question, by the way. I think it sounds like something a televangelist would say. I wish there was a better version - something like "have you realized that all of the cr@p on Earth really doesn't matter in the long run, and that the real answers aren't to be found here?" which leads to my second question/statement (one I learned from my mom, who lost my oldest sister when she was 2 days old): You don't always get an answer. It sucks. And you cry. And you hurt like no one should hurt. But it isn't because God is a bad God or God hates you. It's just because that's how things are, and neither you nor I are ready for the answers yet. It's part of being human. And when it is your time (or my mom's), you will have your answer. Only you won't be asking it any longer, because you'll have Lydia. Don't focus on this, Quill. Focus on the beauty and love that is surrounding you. asta

Will. Future tense. He said "will". Not "has". Your situation was in the past, even though it was still painful for you. It was not in the future. No one on earth can tell you that. Only you can decide that for yourself. And it sounds as if you have decided. A priest once told me that most people wander through life listening to the "pre-set" stations on the radio. Not only that - those are the only stations they are even able to "hear". Some people, though, are able to hear what is broadcast "in-between". Sometimes all of the time, sometimes only once in their lifetime. So... I guess my take on the situation would be, why are you thinking about this situation now, and what, if any changes have you made in your spiritual life since that time period? asta

That's a good idea Rosie. Kid took a look at this thread and said "that's easy: become a Brewer". (and yes, he knows that involves chemistry, but it doesn't require a chemistry degree...) a

My husband, who has a BS in International Relations, just finished a 23 year career as a Military Officer, and is now a senior ranking __________ had this to say last night: With the exception of Herbert Hoover, who is widely viewed as one of the worst presidents in the history of the United States, no engineer has ever been a head of state in this country. Why? Because they aren't trained to lead. They are trained to do. In any society, there will be the "do-ers" and the "lead-ers". You need to decide where you want to fall out, so to speak. Once you have done so, the fields of study will become more defined. At that point, it isn't about "what degree will get me a job", it is "what job will give me the skill set to best accomplish my goals". ------------ If "business, computer programming, accounting, etc." match your personality, but the titles are abhorrent to you, then you have to start looking outside of the box. What is business? Is it sitting on your butt all day in an office? Is it showing Boise Cascade (oops, now they are just "Boise") a way to streamline their _____ practices so that they can incorporate new, greener technologies into their lumber business. New processes that are cutting edge research that you learned because you are a thinker who knows how to research such things and found the idea interesting? What is computer programming? Is it just Java, Perl, Python et al? Or is it finding new ways to enable non-verbal communication for those who cannot speak and/or think differently? Is it the cutting edge for something that most people don't even think about now, but once applied think - good lord, how did I ever live without that? (the wiki effect) What is accounting? It is the manipulation of numbers. Do you realize what you can do in the world if you have the ability to manipulate numbers? I'm not even talking in a bad way. It isn't necessarily rotting in the equivalent of a steno pool of credits and debits; you can advise people whether or not their "great idea" is even viable. You can forecast potential future financials based on current trends. Every. single. capitalistic. entity. needs this. You just have to step out of the box. And decide how far you want to go. It reminds me of one of my old peeps who was finishing a BS in mathematics. I looked at her and said "what on earth do you do with a math degree?" She laughed and said "anything I want." It wasn't about math to her - it was about the decision. asta

I never said I was the only one to work through school. In fact, I said the opposite. Work study doesn't pay for a kid to go spend their summer being an intern somewhere. It doesn't exist ad infinitum, either. It is a program. Programs have limits. When the slots are filled, they are filled. Not all students get them, even if they "apply early" or are "great candidates". Life isn't perfect. I'm getting nowhere with this: you have to have the money to eat and have a roof over your head before you can "work" for free. You have to have transportation for most things. You have to have the right clothes. It doesn't matter where that "work" is. If you don't have that kind of squeak in your budget (for whatever reason - the reason is irrelevant), those "opportunities" aren't going to happen. I had kids like this in my dorm. Yes, it is possible to be too poor. I'm not angry about my college experience. I had a GREAT college experience. What I'm trying to point out is that not everyone does. They can do "all the right things" and still get none of the "bennies". And it is a disservice to assume that they "didn't try hard enough" or "didn't seek out enough resources". Not everyone on the planet is coming from a place of unlimited mental energy to do that. Nor is everyone coming from a place where they were even raised to believe that it exists. I better step out of here now. asta a

I forgot: If you can get an internship or co op at the CIA, they'll pay you a "competitive" salary plus benefits. The only conditions are that you have to: 1. Relocate to DC 2. Pay for your own housing in DC and 3. Not tell anyone that you are doing or have done it. Simple, see! asta

You actually are, in some cases. I worked at IBM for a bit one summer in HR. Resumes come in, they are stamped with the date, and they go in the file box. The only way a resume even gets *looked at* for a job is if a resume comes in on the day a job has come open per the HR director (not the newspaper, etc.) and meets enough criteria to make it to his/her "look" pile. Guess who decides if it goes into her pile? The receptionist. If the applicant is called in and is rude to the receptionist? It's game over before it even starts. HR does a cursory interview and the applicant is done. I'm sure the system has changed somewhat, but apparently that is how they had done it for a loooonnnngg time, and IBM doesn't change very quickly. a

Ok, so no one understood my comment. Is everyone on this board besides twoforjoy and medstudent an Engineer? Not everyone is an engineer! Not everyone WANTS to be an engineer. And if they WERE, guess what? All of the engineers wouldn't be in demand! There would be an over-supply, wages would go down, and... companies wouldn't be beating down the doors of unis to offer co ops - much less offering competitive salaries for them. And guess what? The co ops for degrees like Economics and Political Science are in places like D.C., or other seats of government where the pay is non-existent (oooo... don't you feel PRIVILEGED to be working in the PRESENCE of GOVERNMENT) and students are somehow expected to come up with the cash to live in the areas. There aren't firms banging down the doors of universities for "soft science" students. But just *try* and get a job at the Federal Reserve or Morgan Stanley without a degree in Economics; it isn't going to happen. Can "go getter" students find things? Sure. If they have the financial means to do so. Because there are thousands of kids trying, and those slots are needles in a haystack. Like twoforjoy essentially said, there is a place in this world for "other". Someone needs to do all of the stuff that ISN'T engineering or STEM. And they have to have college degrees to be allowed to do it as well. Does that make sense. a ETA: Public finance, International Econ, Econometrics et al are NOT easy subjects. We're not talking "business math" here. We're talking advanced statistical analysis of local, state and world economies; how they came into being, what internal and external pressures they face, and how they interact with one another in the aggregate. There is a a type of thinking, a type of intelligence, if you will that is needed to be able to do this. And it is very, very necessary in order for governments to be able to function. It affects everything from "what is the best way to pay for a new sewer system" to "how do we get the local polluter to stop doing so" to "how best do we stop a dictator" to "how do we quicken/slow down an economy" (leave it alone! it's cyclical - it will right itself!). These are not unimportant, useless things because they aren't "STEM" degrees. I would argue that in some ways, they are more important: they keep the world from literally blowing up. ETA2: Now that kid is awake and discussing - it is the historians, the sociologists, and the psychologists who are watching the patterns of human behavior in society at large that allow heads of state to manage diplomacy. Yes, sometimes that diplomacy is weak or breaks down completely - but there is a reason the world hasn't had another true Hitler or Pol Pot: there are all of these "worthless degrees" running around yelling FIRE at consulates and embassies when heads of state go a wee bit too far down certain paths.

But 8, this assumes - alot. I'm not trying to snark on you or your child, but it takes a certain level of income to be able to do what you've just written. And most people just don't have it. When DH and I were in college, I worked as a dorm mother and he worked as a dorm janitor (both 20-30 hours a week) in addition to taking 16 hours of classes. Every summer was minimally 40 hours of work at the highest paying jobs we could find. For him, that was living at his parents and doing manual labor (construction paid really well back then), for me, it was living with my sister in the "big city" and going on "temp jobs" at big companies. There was no "oh, I think I'll go work "in my field" for experience" option. It was purely money driven. Could we get enough money to go another year or not? I think it would be lovely if all kids could be the "package deal" that your kid is, but I don't think that is an economic reality. If DH and I both hadn't worked before college and then had sheer chutzpah, we probably wouldn't have been "competitive" against kids like yours. We had the GPAs, but there was no way we had the time for all of that other stuff. I think there are many "asta and husband" kids out there. (and we weren't even married yet) a

Why is a homeschooling board assuming that posters have never travelled with (or had!) small children? I mean, durr... a

I'm not talking about dedicated professors. I'm not talking about salaries. I'm not talking about whether or not the French department has been painted in the last 30 years. I'm talking about business - the marketing end of university education in the US, which actually has bubkus to do with educating: Endowments. (getting a building named after your dead husband) Nationally ranked Sports Programs. Recruitment of national food chains to "round out" food service plans (eg: Starbucks, Taco Bell, Sweet Tomatoes, et all). Mini-mini-mall styling of book stores with Apple, Dell, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. "stores" within them as well as required texts. (which, admittedly, can be bought elsewhere, but it's so easy with the student discounts and it's all right. there.) Reformulation of dormitories from the spartan rooms of the 60s-80s into apartment style suites with cable, internet, and sometimes even kitchenettes - conveniently managed by a leasing company. Do people honestly think the money from these things goes into the ether? That Apple, Dell, Adobe and Microsoft aren't paying those universities for the privilege of having prime access to their students? Or that the food chains aren't doing the same? Sports are BIG, BIG, BIG business - governors of states tout the teams of even private universities when promoting their states for business. Now, does this happen at every college or university? Of course not. But to behave as if the "hallowed halls of academia" are just that is absurd. A good third of my family is in academia (uni profs, researchers, etc.) and even they aren't wearing glasses that rosy. Find me a university president who, given the choice between highlighting a "gender studies" department or the regional champ ___ sport team as a "hook" for new students in the glossy brochure - and chooses the former - and I'll show you a president who is about to be fired by the board of regents. JMO a

I don't know - maybe having to take tests only at schools you really, really, REALLY want to attend would stop some of the madness of the application process. I mean, how many kids blanket app essentially the entire "oooo THAT's a good school" market just because they CAN? I've seen news shows where parents talk about their kid having sent off 35 applications! WHAT? Your kid is an "excellent" or "very good" or even "good" fit at 35 schools? How well did you research schools? Are you taking the shotgun approach and hoping someone will bite in the scholarship lottery? Have you read the statistics on that? I honestly don't see how anyone could possibly be surprised that they didn't get into Yale/Harvard/Princeton/Swarthmore/Brown/et al if they didn't have stellar academics/credentials and/or legacy - they could try to argue discrimination of a test given by one of those schools, but who would believe it? Look at the student body of any one of them! Look at MIT, Stanford, Caltech - who on earth is going to claim racial discrimination? If the non-Ivies are concerned, well, use the same rubrics, but adjusted for their own school population. The Colorado School of the Mines obviously doesn't need the same rubric as the University of Washington. Is it more difficult? Sure. Will everyone end up going to college? Probably not. But will the ones who go end up going somewhere they might actually fit academically (vs the uni having to pour money and resources into remedial courses)? Yes. But yeah - it will never work. Because college isn't about learning any longer. It is a commodity. Whichever uni makes the most money wins. Heigh, ho, Capitalism. a

I realized early on that summer "camps" were, for the most part, just glorified daycare for kids who would normally be in public school. Kid went to ONE that wasn't like that, and that was only because the people running it interviewed the parents to spell out how intense of a sport camp it actually was (8am-12, solid track & field and weights, no games, no "socializing"). It's sad, but those camps are big money makers and most parents aren't all too concerned with what actually goes on in them. asta My first website! http://www.militaryhomeschoolnetwork.com

There are four of us, all girls. At one point, when we were all tweens/teens, my mom got so fed up, she put a sign on her bedroom door that said "If you're not bleeding, leave me alone." It still makes me laugh. a

Personally, I think my sig from Peter is enormously applicable to teaching (and learning!). I just read a great tip for "what to do with a bunch of HS teens", though - a Gourmet food club. I never would have thought of that one. I mean, you could get boys AND girls enjoying the same activity! a

Unless they don't have the money for extensive "how to take the SAT" programs (or even books or computers, for that matter), the access to the test (some live in places where it is offered only once a year, for example). There are some really bright kids out there who are going to high school, going to WORK, coming home, doing homework all night and doing the same thing all over again. Not because they want a cell phone, but because that is the financial reality for their family. How are they to compete with kids who have access (and time for) specific SAT studying? I've mentioned this one before? How are they to compete with kids whose schools incorporate SAT "study skills" into their curriculum? At that point, it has gone beyond testing for intelligence or for those who put in that "extra" effort; it has become one big game of "who has been taught to the test best". My latest anecdata: My niece. (yes, I have a LOT of nieces, and yes, they're flipping brilliant). Autistic savant. Across the board for math, English, history, science, foreign language - yes, one of THOSE kind of brains. Just got her SATs back a couple of days ago - don't know what her total score was, just percentages: 85% math and 95% verbal. Why? No big-@ss prep for starters. Sure, they're not bad scores at all. But her cousin, who can't touch her intelligence wise, maxed the test out. The cousin whose school starts prepping kids in 8th grade. NO ONE can convince me that that test isn't a test about testing. a ETA: I wrote this BEFORE watching the video

You caught that! I went looking for it in google images specifically because of her Avatar! a

That would be good, because it will eventually need to be taken over by someone in the group (eg: not me fixing it), and it is a military community, so there is turn-over. I mean, the name is "Military Associated Stuttgart Homeschoolers", so moving kind of comes with the territory... a

Thank you for this info! a

It was up to me to gather a variety of curricula. It's funny that you mention PHP for the writing section - it WAS in there, but the link did something wonky in the software and made the entire page a hotlink for Peace Hill Press. I tried and tried to fix it but finally got so frustrated, I just deleted it and left the one on the other page. I honestly didn't know about Right Start. I'll put it in my book for when the first revision is done. a

AHA! I knew this existed somewhere... Outline of U.S. History I have a similar book that was put out by USAID in the 1980s. The US State Department always has something like it in publication for educational/propaganda purposes (IME). Although, I must say, my old one is a GREAT condensed US history book. I had kid read the whole thing prior to taking his first ever standardized tests (since he'd never lived in America long enough to have any US history). a

Thanks, guys! The funniest part was, when writing in curriculum recommendations, I kept trying to think "what do NON wtm people use?" By the time it was done, I looked at it and thought "well, I hope they want to be classical homeschoolers..." a

A homeschool group liked my style of writing and asked me to create a website for them. http://www.stuttgarthomeschoolers.org It isn't any grandly coded thing - just made on iWeb - but I am SO proud of myself! I've never done anything like this. What I'm most proud of is that I stuck with the project, even though most all of it was blechy data entry and I have the attention span of a gnat. I wanted to announce it here because I got so many of the curriculum ideas from the WTM fora. I really hope that it will help people. Now I want to learn how to make a *real* website! a

Kid and I were discussing that last night. :-( a

Why President Bush? Why not any wartime President after Franklin D. Roosevelt (since taxation didn't come into effect until 1946)? Harry S. Truman? Dwight D. Eisenhower? LBJ? Nixon? Reagan? (or does the cold war not count?) Bush 1 - Gulf War 1? Clinton - Kosovo? Or the current President, Barack Obama? - wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and an arial bombing campaign over Libya? Oh, wait... nevermind a