Yes. But I contend that there's a whole lot more mental illness around in teens than we as a society care to admit. Many get through it fine. We all had our share of angst. Sometimes it is just kids being selfish jerks. As with any negative change in behavior or health, sometimes it's wise to seek professional help. Often what looks like just jerky, unpleasant teenager crap belies underlying issues that can become horribly destructive. Just my two cents-- YMMV. astrid

OOH! drive a *little* further east and go to Webs! Well maybe more than a little. It's in central Massachusetts. :-) But we travel a lot for dog shows so I"m always on the lookout for fiber stores, so I'll watch this thread carefully! astrid

You go, mama! And again, as the psych expert poster said above, professionals are the way to go here-- this is just all my own armchair thoughts, based on what we've been through/are going through right now. No psych degree here--- American Studies, Political Science, education, and a grad degree in educational leadership. :-) Plus, parenting an only-- not like I've got tons of experience there either. :-) astrid

Again, this sounds like depression/anxiety/OCD to me. I'm glad your morning has turned around-- and as we all know, a little ice cream can work wonders! :-) Hugs to you, astrid

GOSH--- we are not meds people either, I think Molly has been on antibiotics THREE times in her 15.5 years, but I cannot tell you the difference it's made. Please--- strongly consider it. It will change your world. It has ours. About OCD behaviors--- you usually don't see them. Picking her face is one. For Molly, the big one is hair pulling, which we didn't even notice until her hair was so thin! Another that she has, but we never saw, is that she says that for instance if her right arm itches and she scratches it, she has to also scratch the same spot on her left arm. She says she's always done it. We NEVER noticed that! And she's an only child! It's not like we have ANYONE else to focus on but HER! :-( Also, so, so many OCD behaviors are not physical manifestions that you would see. Cycling through thoughts, mental images, etc. ALL OCD, but not outward manifestations. She probably doesn't even know she does it. But her poor mind is probably working overtime. Heck, the "getting the last word" and "over-talking" are probably OCD-related. Bedtime-- again, I seriously doubt that she's going to sleep at 9 and getting a full night's rest. Overtiredness can really ramp up OCD symptoms, so it's probably a vicious cycle she's caught in. Please, consider the meds. She's a good girl-- she wants to do well. I suspect she just doesn't know how to break the cycle she's in. astrid

YES YES YES. That's what her drawing is-- she's escaping the anxiety of schoolwork, which she is anxious about, and she's anxious about it because she knows there will be negative consequences, and that makes her more anxious, and so her escape is drawing, which she KNOWS she's good at and can give her a boost of positive energy. I also agree with the early rising. Teens have a bizarre sleep pattern-- they're physiologically programmed to stay up late and sleep late. With her early alarm, she's probably not getting enough sleep, even though "bed time" is 9 pm. I doubt she's actually falling asleep then. Even if you think she is, she isn't. Molly is on a low dose of Celexa, and as I said, four weeks in now and she's literally crying from relief that she feels so good. And remember, she never gave us a moment's cause to discipline her about ANYTHING. If it can make a kid who to all outward appearances was a model child feel so much better, I can only imagine what it would do for a kid who's lashing out. Hugs to you both! astrid

Oh honey..... the more I learn about OCD, the more I can look back and see it in Molly from an early age. She was never defiant, disrespectful, or anything other than perfectly pleasant and compliant, but now I see things that she'd do or say or feel that make me think that there were underlying tendencies there all along, but because she IS so good-natured, we never even gave them any thought. And until we started seeing her CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapist) for the hair pulling, there are things that SHE didnt' even realize are OCD. For instance, when she's doign her school work, she gets fixated on whether her answer is wrong. So she'll erase the entire thing and start again. Then her mind will just cycle through self-doubt and her need to be RIGHT, and then the OCD/anxiety builds. When we homeschooled, the ONLY times she'd turn ugly was during math. Now looking back, I see that though her anxiety over chaotic school environments was eased, it showed up again when she tackled her worst subject-- anything math-related. Anxiety can manifest itself so many ways. Do you have any family members that you know of with OCD or anxiety? My husband has a first cousin who went through a hand-washing phase when her parents got divorced, and struggles with OCD now as an adult. There can be a genetic component to it. Honestly, I feel for you--- and we're going through it all. Feel free to PM me. Still more hugs, because you need them, mama. astrid

WEBS (yarn store) has AMAZING customer service. I'm lucky enough to live an hour away, and it's one of my favorite places to shop. The salespeople on the floor are SO helpful, patient and knowledgeable. I've also ordered from the via the telephone and website and had the same great experience. astrid

Is she eating grain-free food? What's her breed/size? What's her activity level? astrid

Oh man....I hate to keep harping on it, but yeah--- this says depression/anxiety to me too. Self-soothing OCD. Repetitive motion. Music. Escapism. aaand more hugs.... astrid

This is waving a huge "anxiety" flag for me! I know, I know....I had no experience with it either until just a couple of months ago. With Molly it manifests itself as hair pulling. It's actually why we took her out of school in 2nd grade. Now she's a sophomore in high school, at our small, family-centric public high school and it's rearing it's ugly head again in exactly the same way. Hair pulling. But looking back, Molly has always been uncomfortable in chaotic, crowded situations such as big parades, concerts, etc. It's why the chaotic environment of public school was so awful for her, and it's exactly what she says makes her pull her hair in school now-- the rude, disruptive, loud behavior of her peers. Anyway, something to think about-- again, the meds took about three weeks to kick in but I cannot adequately express the positive difference. Hugs again, astrid

I agree. I haven't read all the responses, but I read down to this post thinking, "This is a depression/anxiety issue!" She's withdrawing, and even a new horse didn't pull her out. I'm so sorry-- I know how hard it is. Do you think she has any OCD issues? We're learning about this with DD, who is a perpetually happy, bright, compliant, accomplished kid. Yet we are seeing how these heretofore unseen OCD issues have been impacting her schoolwork. Molly is the LAST kid you'd ever suspect of needing medication. Our pediatrician is VERY conservative with medication, yet he suggested we try Celexa. I cannot tell you the world of difference it's made. She's also seeing a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist who has helped a lot as well. I'm so sorry--- sending hugs, and suggesting that perhaps you look beyond the schoolwork at an underlying issue. astrid

Yes, Hope Elise is lovely. And I"m so sorry for your loss. astrid

OP, did you realize that "Haven" is the name of a supernatural Sci-fi series, set in the fictional town of "Haven, Maine," and based on a Steven King novel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haven_%28TV_series%29 astrid

I don't get the connection between "Haven" and "Jordan" but perhaps it's obvious to others? Wasn't there a series of books in the '80's with a weird character named "Heavenly?" "Haven Lea/Leigh" sounds like "Heavenly" to me. Do you want it to sound just like a sibling? With "Liberty," "Felicity," "Jubilee" and "Haven Leigh" that's kind of a lot of rhyming. But then again, they'll all come running when you holler out the door! :-) Then again, as recently posted here, I tend to be much better at puppy naming! :-) astrid

Me neither. I live in Connecticut, and New Haven is a crime-ridden city, East Haven's mayor made a racial slur about Hispanics and "apologized" by offering to give them free tacos (yes, really!) and West Haven isn't much better. Personally, when I see kids named something that's a noun, for example, I always wonder if, when they're 35, they'll wish their parents had just gone with Margaret or Jennifer or Caroline. Hope is lovely, though. astrid

Dogs are pack animals; they do best in a social group of staggered ages. That said, you've just illustrated why I always caution people NEVER to get puppies of the same age at the same time. Glad it all worked out for the best. astrid

Jennifer in Michigan's Best Ever Christmas Card! :thumbup: I can put up my decorations, gorge myself on fudge, listen to Christmas music twelve hours per day, but it's just not Christmas until I see those angelic boys, serenely smiling while one brother clamps a white-knuckled vise grip on his precious, pink yet utterly hysterical little sister. You think I"m kidding. I am not. It makes me laugh until I cry EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. Come on, Jennifer--- you knew I was going to ask! :-) astrid

Awwww! Wonderful!!! Give the little guy a squeeze for me! Astrid

Go to the meat counter at your grocery store. Up on the shelf near the icky stuff-- tripe, suet, etc.-- you'll see beef shank marrow bones. They're usually packaged 2 to a pack, about 6-8 inches long, and look like a long, cylindrical bone with straight cut ends. They're cheap. Buy them, freeze them, and then when they're frozen, give them to the dogs. They'll work like crazy at them, and their teething will be satisfied. Sweet breath (really!) and no tartar on the teeth. ONE WORD OF CAUTION, THOUGH-- with two dogs, be CERTAIN that they're in separate crates when they're working on food toys-- Kongs, marrow bones, etc. You do NOT want to set up food guarding issues. astrid

Tired puppies are good puppies. Work them until you think they're tired and then work them some more, because they're beagles--- and they're not tired. Beagles have very strong genetics telling them to GO GO GO GO....... RUN RUN RUN......... and do it in packs. You have a pack of beagles. They are behaving like a pack. Mental exercise is more exhausting to puppies than physical exercise. Clicker train. Clicker train everything. EVERYTHING. Google it-- tons of websites and youtube videos to help you get started. I am serious----- mental exercise. You don't need obedience class. You need road miles. :-) Kudos to you for hangin' in there. Beagles are not an easy breed, and two at a time is insanity! :-) astrid

Either is adorable, but I still like "He's a Good Man." But I would call him "Charlie Pookins Love Sponge Sweet Boy Come Snuggle With Me." Too long, you think? astrid

HATE HATE HATE Trans-Siberian Orchestra!!!!!! HATE IT! astrid

OMG I am dying of cuteness! ' I'm hugely devoted to my breed, but there is nearly NOTHING as cute as a Cav puppy. Seriously. If I lived with him I would do nothing but stroke that soft head. He's just darling!!!! And he looks like a "Good Man, Charlie Brown!" Hugs, astrid

Mannheim Steamroller. I think I"m the only one on the planet. I just hate it. HaTe it. HATE IT. I know I"m in the minority, so I don't expect a JAWM party. But if anyone feels similarly, I won't fee quite so alone on my Mannheim-free island. :seeya: astrid