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Posts posted by Sneezyone

  1. 25 minutes ago, Farrar said:

    Mushroom knows I don't enjoy some of the rap he likes, particularly and that if he plays those songs - especially things that have the N-word a LOT or that are especially demeaning toward women - then I'm just more likely to seize control of the car radio myself in general more often, even if I'm not censoring particular songs. So he tends to put on Childish Gambino, Logic, Eminem... hip hop artists I like more than he does DaBaby or Lil Baby... guys, why are they all called BABY? Sigh. I mean, he also likes a lot of other stuff too. He has wide ranging taste, he's just been listening to a lot of rap lately. The annoying thing is that I'll be like, let's put on Tribe Called Quest and he's not okay with that. Kids, y'all.

    BalletBoy only listens to like, Monstercat and video game music and musicals. It's more annoying than offensive. Not really censorship material unless you mean because I can only listen to so many renditions of songs from Nintendo games.

    FWIW—I would happily join you in listening to a Tribe Called Quest. I fear my children will never know the joy of listening to Arrested Development. I cannot abide trap music and emo rap. At all. I also cannot stand music with nonsensical lyrics, whiny moping or grunting, and a surfeit of auto tune (which seems to be much of what DD likes these days). The rest of us can play away. 🤣

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  2. Just now, Jenny in Florida said:

    "Nirvana fallacy" is the name of a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an argument by pointing out the ways it would not lead to a perfect outcome. The implication is that, since things wouldn't be perfect, anyway, then there's no point trying to improve anything.

    I'd also argue that this isn't an either/or situation in which we somehow have to choose between the welfare of animals, the health and wellbeing of humans and the care and keeping of the whole planet. Everything I've ever read convinces me that all of those things are inextricably linked.

    Which.... kindly...doesn’t apply AT ALL to what I said since I have repeatedly and vociferously said that I not only support more enlightened forms of animal husbandry but increased veggie consumption. You’ve fixated on my preference to eat tasty items, which include meat, to the exclusion of all else and decided that means there is no common ground to be had. I find most diet hawkers to be charlatans and profiteers but that doesn’t mean I don’t see wisdom in the biblical admonitions on moderation and good stewardship. 

  3. 2 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

    It might be more accurate to say that net proceeds -- after expenses including a reasonable salary for the creator/facilitator -- are split between two non-profit organizations that support nutrition-focused organizations.

    And, you know, I still find that pretty cool.

    Despite the multiple recommendations, I haven't gotten around to reading the book yet. Now I kind of want to go buy a copy.

    Oh, I looked it up, and it seems like $198,000 per year is actually way on the low end of a typical salary for a physician. One handy visual is available here.

    He’s not practicing medicine whatever his training. He’s a non-profit CEO. I don’t even know why we’re having this conversation. You believe his claims are accurate, I’m skeptical. N’uff said. 

  4. 35 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

    This isn't the first time I've seen a Nirvana fallacy crop up in this thread.

    (Another was the assertion that since feeding human beings will never require zero resources, it doesn't matter whether using resources in a less efficient way to raise meat instead of plant products for human consumption. Even though no one had made the of course ridiculous claim that feeding people would ever require zero resources.)

    The fact that this person isn't "a penniless evangelist," which no one recommending the book said he was, doesn't logically refute the facts raised about how the profits from his book sales, speaking events, etc., are distributed. 

    For the record, by the way, this book was recommended to me by two of my physicians -- different areas of specialization in different practices. 

    I am certainly not seeking nirvana. As I said MULTIPLE times, I seek balance. I do not believe the consumption of meat is a moral/ethnical/religious issue. I think the care and keeping of the WHOLE planet is. If this whole COVID episode has taught us anything, it’s that all ‘medical professionals’ are not created equal. 

  5. 1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

    He takes a salary of 200K (which is a normal salary for an M.D. and probably less than he made as a practioner) out of total revenue of over 2 million, and his organization has a 100% rating on Charity Navigator. 

    I’m not begrudging anyone making money off of their ideas. The statement was that all proceeds go to charity. They don’t. Full stop.

  6. 13 minutes ago, Selkie said:

    Seriously? Yeah, I'm sure Dr. Greger is swimming in Rolls Royces, mansions, and yachts because of his nutrionfacts.org salary.

    $200K/year in salary alone isn’t chump change and he’s been drawing over 180K since at least 2016, the first year I checked. IJS. In the interest of truth, he is not a penniless evangelist. ETA: I imagine a Tesla Model X would be more on brand. 🤣

  7. Listen, it’s not my intent to drag down your hero but this is simply not true. There is most definitely a profit motive.

    “Does Dr. Greger make any money off of this site?

    Dr. Greger now draws a salary from NutritionFacts.org as Research Director. So when you support NutritionFacts.org, part of your donation goes to putting kale on his table. All proceeds Dr. Greger receives from his book, speaking engagements and DVDs is split between NutritionFacts.org and a donor advised charitable fund from which Dr. Greger distributes to amazing nonprofits that are translating evidence-based nutrition into policy, like Balanced and the Physicians Association for Nutrition.”

    Do you know what his salary is?

    For FY 2019 it was 198K.

  8. 1 minute ago, Selkie said:

    Get rich quick? I believe it's been mentioned twice already in this thread, but all his proceeds go to charity.

    The tactic is common in get rich quick circles, yes. Book proceeds go to charity. Not speaking/appearance fees and other ancillary benefits which is where the real money is. SMH. 

  9. 10 minutes ago, Selkie said:

    No idea why you would say that, as it makes no sense. He's basically a nutrition nerd who loves to dig into research. As the saying goes, don't shoot the messenger.

    Because he hasn’t actually done any research for himself and is selectively reporting other people’s findings. This is a common tactic in get rich quick circles. Tony Robbins comes to mind. I happen to disbelieve, on principle, anyone who thinks they alone can solve the mysteries of the universe. Things are rarely that simple.

  10. 1 minute ago, Laura Corin said:

    I thought that it took many more acres under cultivation to provide for animal food than to feed humans on plants. Is that not right?

    If we all stopped eating animals, then we would lose the meat that is raised on hill farms and the like,  but wouldn't fields of soy feed people more efficiently if they weren't fed to cattle and turned into meat?

    I don’t know. Maybe? As I said, my point was that vegetarian and vegan diets have costs too, not just in terms of land and chemicals but in terms of labor. Neither model is currently able to feed the world without the exploitation of resources. My personal feeling is that is because neither was ever intended to be used in isolation.

  11. 18 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

    It's been a while since I read up on this stuff, since I have reached the stage at which I no longer feel the need to defend my choices. However, the last time I checked, it is actually much less resource- intensive to produce enough good quality calories for people focusing on plants than on raising animals for consumption.

    If recent research refutes that point, I would be happy to read the info.

    And if organic produce became the standard, prices would likely come down, making it more accessible to everyone.

    Again, if there is credible research that says otherwise, I would be genuinely interested to see it.

    Veggies may well be less resource intensive, that doesn’t mean zero, which was my point. There is no cost free option for feeding people. I’d be curious to know whether regenerative farming practices are compared with factory farming too. Modern agriculture, in general, in both produce and animals tends to be exploitative.

    I like veggies but I also like to eat meat and don’t ascribe any value judgment to that choice other than personal preference. Thus, I too don’t feel the need to defend that stance. Suffice it to say that the vegan version of good quality calories, like seitan and tempeh and seeds/nuts (which my DS is allergic to), do not win rave reviews for taste or texture here so that would never be a satisfying everyday option for us.

  12. 11 hours ago, MercyA said:

    True, I've never had to make the choice between butchering a cat or letting my child starve. But, really, that has nothing to do with whether I can, right now, choose a diet that causes less suffering to others. 

    It seems to be that in almost every discussion about this particular choice, someone (general someone, not picking on you, SKL) warns against vegetarians/vegans feeling "superior" or "better than." I can't speak for anyone else, but when I made that choice in the past, and if I make it again in the future, it didn't and won't have anything to do with feeling superior, but rather everything to do with living in line with my own values.

    Do some religions want personhood status for non-human animals? I wasn't aware; that's very interesting. It is just very clear to me that my dog is her own little "person," and my canary is her own "person," and the more I read and learn, the more I am convinced that that is the case for many or most creatures on this earth. I have seen fish in an aquarium, even, show concern for their comrades. Once they dashed around my tank in an absolute panic until I counted them, was baffled to find one missing, and eventually found him stuck under a rock and freed him, after which they all calmed down. Another fish once stayed faithfully by a dying friend's side (and no, they did not eat each other after death). 

    Absolutely there are carnivores in the wild who must kill, but that doesn't mean I must do the same. Yes, lives are lost every day, but I don't have to be the cause of it. 

    J-rap, I appreciate the discussion!

    The thing is that those values often don’t extend to the people growing and harvesting veggies/grains and the resources required, including land and chemicals, to make that dietary option viable. It’s not as if a strictly vegetarian or vegan diet doesn’t have costs too. To do less harm, you’d have to purchase only certified organic produce which is, indeed, costly. Every human doesn’t need to be a carnivore/omnivore but having no human meat eaters would also cause harm. Rather than stressing over meat/no meat, veg/no veg...I’ve been reading more about regenerative agriculture which seems to stress balance and symbiosis. This is something that makes a lot more sense to me. I don’t interpret my faith’s requirement of good earthly stewardship as not harming anything or anyone tho. Responsible stewardship, to me, means taking only what you need/must, consuming everything you take, and replenishing that which you remove. That, obv. shapes my view.

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  13. 30 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

    Well, I don't know about you, but my forebears did lots of things--sometimes in the name of survival or because they were understood to be necessary in the context of the times and places in which they lived--that I don't feel great about including in my life now. Times and people evolve and are capable of making new choices in different situations.

    As I said, I have made a variety of dietary choices but I do, still, enjoy heritage foods. They make me feel closer to both my live family and forebears. YMMV. I don’t feel especially superior b/c I can afford to eat what I like and not what I must.

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  14. 1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

    I can absolutely respect (and simply disagree with) a consistent position.

    Edited to add: I want to make really clear, by the way, that I am not invested in browbeating anyone else into being a vegetarian or vegan. Like many other very personal decisions I have made about my own life, I value my right to make such decisions far too much to think it's appropriate to try and impose my own beliefs or opinions on anyone else. I have the right and obligation to make my own choices, and I believe others have the same.

    I'd be a big old hypocrite if I believed (or behaved) otherwise.

    Truthfully, unless I am directly asked or the topic comes up naturally in conversation, I rarely talk about my veganism anymore, and when I do I try to keep it as matter-of-fact and brief as possible. I am participating in this thread because the title and initial post were a direct invitation to do so. And I hope that I have managed to phrase all of my comments to reflect my intention to share and discuss without trying to "convince." That's not my job.

    I totally get this perspective. Those who can make these choices get no special scorn from me. I just think it’s funny in the sense that none of us would be here but for the willingness of our forebears to eat off cuts and animal products, from bear and kangaroo and alligator to snout, feet, intestines and brains. We are all the beneficiaries of modern education and farming tactics that aren’t without trade offs. I just think that the trade offs and reality of diets worldwide deserve a bit more recognition.

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  15. 11 minutes ago, MercyA said:

    I was an ovo-vegetarian (very, very strictly) for about three years, I think. And then I stopped when I was trying to conceive and while I was pregnant and never went totally back. 

    It didn't seem that difficult at the time. I think one of the reasons I didn't feel hungry on the diet is because I also was not eating any white flour or refined sugar. Refined carbs = cravings for me.

    Wow, @Sneezyone, that is some beautiful produce!!! 

    IKR! This was the payoff for living with 120+ degree heat for four-five months a year. The “1.00” you see was one Bahraini dinar, approx. $2.65 USD, so one head of cauliflower was $2.65. For $15 I had plenty for our family of four. Meat, on the other hand, was VERY pricey.

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  16. 51 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

    re dialing back rather than turning off consumption of animal flesh

    This is me and my husband (we do a bit more meat when my carnivore son is home, which he currently is).

    My youngest (now almost 18) has been vegetarian (not vegan, though she did a trial for ~6 months or so) since she was 7 years old. For a while figuring out the cooking side was hard, and then it got easier, and by now it's automatic pilot.  I certainly *could* do it in terms of either lifestyle or health; I just like the taste of fish, I find chicken immensely easy and flexible to cook with, I adore the occasional lamb roast or good burger.

    For me the issue isn't a absolute matter of ethics or hard view on sustainability -- more a tradeoff of degree. Better is better.

    Tastier products often have the added benefit of being environmentally/ethically preferable. My previous acupuncturist called it ‘slow food’—Things that take longer to cultivate, mature, and/or cook. They also tend to be more costly as a result.

    Eating in ways that match your ethical and health needs/preferences is a privilege. A pound of chicken from my distributor is $4-5/lb. vs. $1-2/lb. for factory farmed birds. My preferred meat market sells grass fed, pastured beef for $8-12/lb. vs. $3-4/lb. for factory farmed cattle. Adding more veggies, as Laura Corin said, can help offset this expense but not entirely. Ethically farmed, sustainable produce is also costly. We don’t pay enough attention to who is harmed/exploited to produce cheap rice, veg and legumes. Our bodies, our planet are designed to work in harmony. We have, by design, predators and prey, producers and consumers, omnivores, herbivores, and carnivores. It seems to me that we are most out of whack when we allow any of those to dominate.

    I shop several different grocers b/c most local stores don’t sell as many varieties of greens and veggies as I like either. There’s only one small grocer, for ex., that stocks Gai Lan. I miss the farmers markets we had in Bahrain with stall after stall of cheap (subsidized) fruits, veggies and herbs and a few with fresh chicken and duck eggs. Market day loot fresh enough to last two weeks. Sigh. This is privilege talking.








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  17. I am not, nor will I ever be, a vegan or vegetarian but I subscribe to a vegan-friendly meal service and get about 9 meals/mo. The spice levels in the recipes are woefully inadequate for my taste buds but I’m loving the ideas and my DD is eating all of my leftovers!!! 🤦🏽‍♀️ I also feel better with more veg and whole grains in my diet first thing in the morning. I care mostly about flavor and buy slow growth or aged meat/poultry products for the same reason—they taste better.  It’s ok and perfectly reasonable to value the flavor, texture, and presentation of your food. Not sure why that’s controversial. Anyone here signing up for a crunchy kibble diet? There are super tasters, texture-sensitive eaters, ideological consumers, and those who can’t smell/taste anything. They’re obv. not going to view food the same way. I have no philosophical or health objections to a vegetarian or vegan diet. I’m simply more of a ‘do what works for you so long as it doesn’t harm other people’ person so take that FWIW. It’s not a value judgment. It’s not a salvation issue. It’s a biological need and personal preference one.

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  18. Turns out the make ahead worked beautifully! Great crust on top/bottom and still fluffy, not too dense. I will definitely do this again. I am glad I let it come to room temp tho as it reduced the cooking time.

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  19. 14 hours ago, Familia said:

    I have a question: y'all are talking about crispy crust...I always think of stuffing as a fairly moist dish, although I do not stuff the bird.  I place my stuffing in a shallow baking dish (9x13), and bake about 30 mins covered.  So, to get this crisp crust, with what I assuming to be a moist interior, please tell me your baking dish size/type and length of time baking it, and whether covered or not, etc.  Thanks!


    Op, I have done everything from all ahead, as you are doing, prep the veggies in butter and mix that day, to complete prep right b/f baking.  As you can see from my question above, I guess I am not a stuffing connoisseur.


    With my dressing the top is nice and toasted as well as the bottom. We don’t like a really wet dressing, it’s more steamed and fluffy. I like to see the chunks of bread and veg in it. When I combine it the day of, I bake it in an oval casserole dish, a little smaller than 9x13, covered for about 25 minutes then uncover it for another 15-20 until it’s golden brown on top. I also put it on the lower rack b/c I like a bit of crust to form on the bottom too. This years experiment with prepping is TBD but I’m hopeful. We made a much smaller amount, only 8x8 and I am bringing it back to room temp this am. I think I will reduce the covered time by 5 min. And see how that works out.

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  20. Today is my big prep day too. 


    - once-baked potatoes ready for round two.

    - sweet potato pie

    - dressing ready for baking

    - Mac n’ cheese ready for baking

    - chicken  is marinating

    - tomato bisque for DD who just had her braces tightened. 😬

    - steak sandwich for DS (microwave ready)

    - Tom Kha Gai broth, for dinner, is simmering.

    Tomorrow, just final bakes, blanched and sautéed green beans, and my bestie is making garlic shrimp.


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