LOL - I know you wouldn't be able to sneak our goats in anywhere, they're much too vocal and friendly!

You are right, in order to produce milk, cows do have to have calves. And since we only need a very limited number of bulls, most of the male calves are raised to be eaten in some way - whether beef or veal. We also only keep those cows which are making enough milk during the year to be financially profitable. The rest are sold for beef. That is true for all dairy farms across the country, organic or conventional, large or small. Those are just the realities of agriculture. If those things are beyond what your conscience can stand, then you certainly have the choice of going completely vegan. On the other hand, if you can accept these agricultural realities, you can be assured that the vast majority of dairy cows are well taken care of during their lives. I wrote a lot more about that on this thread. We do this for profit of course, we have families to provide for. But we also do it because we LOVE cows - it would be difficult to farm if we didn't! :001_smile: There is nothing as rewarding as a live, healthy calf after a difficult calving or watching a long line of healthy cows digging into their feed with relish, throwing it around a little as happy cows do. I like to drive slowly past the lots, watching the cows act like cows. This is a deeply satisfying life. I have a question for all of you. I see the term "factory farm" in this thread many times. Obviously, I'm familiar with the phrase, but I'm wondering what you mean by it. What, exactly, makes a dairy farm a "factory farm"?

We run a large (about 2000 cows) commercial dairy farm. I hope I can put your mind a rest about some of this. Lots of our friends are dairy farmers and we've been on dairy farms of all sizes across the country. There are always some slackers in every profession that give all the others a bad name. That's the case in the dairy industry too! But you can't judge all of us by the sensational story of a bad apple. There are two facets to every management decision on our farm - what's best for the cows and what's best for our business. Most of the time, they're the same! Happy, comfortable cows are the most productive. Now for your concerns - -Our cows are housed in open lots which is only possible because we live in a part of the country that is predominantly dry and sunny. We groom our lots daily and completely remove all waste several times a year. We strive for clean and dry lots both because the cows are more comfortable and because wet and dirty cows will be more likely to get mastitis. On the infrequent occasions that we get wet or snowy weather (ahh - love it here!) we spread out bales of corn stalks or straw to make a high and dry place for the cows to lay down. -Most cows are milked 2 or 3 times a day - ours are milked 3 times. Actual milking takes about 15 min and we shoot for not having the cows away from their pens for more than an hour. Productive cows need plenty of time to eat, drink and lay around chewing their cud! -No dairy farmer in his right mind gives antibiotics without a very good reason. First antibiotics are expensive and we don't have money to throw around. Secondly, milk from a treated cow can't be sold until the milk is completely clear. We test every load of milk for any trace of antibiotics before it leaves the farm (to protect ourselves) and it is tested again at the plant (to protect the public). Finally, we have families and are as concerned about antibiotic resistance as you are. -By hormones, I assume you mean BST? If so, did you know that in the more than 15 years that it has been available, no one has been able to come up with a test of the milk to detect its use? That's because the milk from cows treated with BST is identical to the milk from cows that were not treated. And the rumor that cows treated with BST are more likely to develop mastitis is hogwash. Mastitis is a matter of genetics and environment. Just like in humans, high production of milk is a result of excellent nutrition and a stress free environment. We spend most of our waking hours trying to make our cows happy and comfortable; because we love our cows, it's the right thing to do, and it allows us to be a profitable business. And that's what almost all of the dairy farms in the country try to do! I love to talk about dairy farming (almost as much as I like to talk curriculum!) so please feel free to ask any other questions you might have!

Sounds like you've got your mind pretty made up about dairy farming. Sorry you're not open to more discussion. I think we just have very different ideas about the purpose of animals in our world. While we won't stand for cruelty to animals in any way, we do believe that God provided them for our use. With that comes a responsibility to care for them - which we do to the best of our ability. Still, if you have any questions about what we really do on our farm and why, I'd be happy to answer.

I get the impression that you would probably consider ours one of those "scary farms" but I'd still love to show you around. Barring that, I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

I'm not sure that you really understand that of which you speak! Have you been to a modern dairy farm? Spoken to a farmer? I can only tell you that our lives revolve around the comfort of our cows. This is both because we truly love cows and like to see them happy and because contented cows make more milk, thus more money. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have! :)

Wanted to give this a bump. I'm looking at using the elementary and secondary language lessons with my 9yo dd and 12 yo ds next year. We use the writing in TOG, but I'd like just a little extra independent work to get some grammar and copywork and such in. Anyone?

Hey! Me too! I usually just lurk here and take all your good ideas! I'm Nancy, married to my high school sweetheart for almost 18 years. We're dairy farmers and just moved to the high plains of Texas along with around 2000 cows, 4 kids, 4 dogs (well, 2 moved with us, 2 we've acquired since), 3 goats, a cat and a rabbit. Both sets of parents moved with us along with several other employees and their families. We're still trying to sell our farm in NY so we're also farming there as well. It's been a VERY stressful 18 months. :tongue_smilie: We've been homeschooling for 4 years now - we pulled the boys out of ps after 2nd and 4th grades. The girls have never been to ps. Our oldest is going to start 8th grade at the ps in the fall which is breaking my heart a little. Hopefully the others will homeschool through hs. We use TOG and MUS for our base and then add a little of this and a little of that as it appeals or seems necessary.

That was always the last sound my kiddos picked up. My oldest went to speech at school :001_huh: for that and then taught the others. I just gently reminded them to stick their tongues out a little and they "got it" right away!

Great advice here. And just remember, until recently, ALL socks were hand knit. It's not rocket science - 5 year olds used to do it!:D

My best friend was horrified when her niece named her son, Uilliam. It's pronounced just like William but with a "you" at the beginning instead of the "w". They call him Liam, but it was days before anyone dared to tell the great-grandma the real name. Liam is such a good name - but I just shudder thinking about the poor kid walking across the stage at graduation!

Last night Denver became my second-favorite team. :D Which is saying something since we're rabid Packers fans and have never quite forgiven the Broncos!

Sigh... I miss my kitchen with the extra tall cupboards. I'm 5'10" so when I remodeled our kitchen I had all the upper cupboards installed 6 in. higher than normal with mostly drawers in the bottom cupboards so I don't have to crawl around on my hands and knees. Then we moved. Now I'm back to cupboards in my face and most of my storage space down around my ankles! I would love to have all of your tall cabinets. :D

We stayed at Apple Creek Campground in Appleton and loved it. Nice facilities, friendly people and very pretty, wooded sites. We only stayed for one night when we were in town for a Packers game but wished we could have stayed longer. Have fun!

My understanding of the TX homeschool regulations is that, while a local school board could allow a homeschooled student to participate in a sport, it would be useless since they are not allowed to compete in a UIL sponsored competition. In other words, it is not the school district keeping kids from sports, but the statewide regulations. We're facing the same problem with football. I was wondering if any Christian schools let homeschoolers play? Anyone have any experience there?:bigear:

Going away with 4 kids is not a vacation, it is an adventure. :D This was a real revelation for me! I often work harder when we're on an "adventure" than I do at home. Adventuring has been known at times to steal my sense of humor! What you need is a vacation to recover from your adventure. Even if you can only steal a few hours...

Sorry - I know this isn't what you mean - but I've laughed every time I've run past this thread in the last couple of days. If by hobby farm, you mean farming without making any money at it, then for this last year - count us in! Actually, it's been a very expensive hobby for the last year for all dairy farmers. I'll go away now and let you continue your discussion (which I find fascinating, by the way!)

I've been noticing this lately (and banning it!) in my kids' writing. Somehow, I notice it in writing but not in our speech. I've been convicted lately that I have got to eliminate it in both. :D

Sorry - just realized how blood thirsty that sounded. I really do like a good football game and I don't usually wish harm on any of the players, no matter how much I dislike them. Brett Favre just brings out the vicious in me!

We are hard core Packers fans in this house. My personal favorite moment of the weekend was watching Brett's helmet bounce on the rock hard turf towards the end of the game. Aaahhhh...

We just moved to the TX panhandle right before Thanksgiving. We spent a ton of time researching different areas. (If you're wondering why anyone would choose the panhandle, we're dairy farmers!) One thing to consider is that TX is a HUGE state. The different areas of the state are very different in terms of climate and culture and I'm sure financially as well. A website that helped us in our research was CityData Good luck in your search. We are loving all the sunshine and friendly people, and having moved from NY, the homeschool laws!:D

We're Packers fans, but like the Colts and Peyton. We went to bed before the end of the game last night because we're moving this week and needed the sleep. Now I'm sooo disappointed! I would have loved to watch the Colts come back like that. Go Colts!

Oh - I'm so jealous! We were there a month ago and absolutely loved it. We were on our way to a family wedding in Williamsburg and HAD to make it in time for the rehearsal, so we only had 2.5 hours there. We could have easily spent 3 times that much. As it was, we lingered a little too long and had to go to the rehearsal without going to the hotel first. Those few extra minutes at Mt.Vernon were worth our sweaty and rumpled and underdressed appearance at the dinner! Have fun!

We'll be in Muleshoe, about an hour north of Lubbock.

I don't really have any experience to add, I just had to click in since we're moving to the panhandle of TX in just 2 weeks! I'm so excited about the easy homeschooling laws there - we're coming from NY. I'm all excited today because I sent in my last quarterly report today, FOREVER! Anyway congrats on the job and good luck with your move. :D