Bump hoping for some suggestions :)

I had problems ordering from one company and decided to order similar books from another company. Additionally, I put some things in my amazon cart to look at later. My husband came along and hit the "order" button on both, not knowing that I was looking at these items and had placed them in my cart so I could find them later; not because I wanted to order all of it. If anyone knows anything about the following books, can you help me sort out what can be taught simultaneously? This is for my youngest daughter who will be in 5th grade. She is a massive reader and adores history. She had requested that we have an intense study on ancient history next year (but we will probably do some of it during the summer as she's eager to start). I know that some of these are on the same subject... So, here's what I have: Famous Men of Greece (and the Greenleaf Guide to it) Book of the Ancient World (along with student/teacher guide from Memoria Press) D'Aulaires Book of Greek Myths (along with student/teacher guide) Trojan War Book (along with student/teacher guide) Eyewitness Book for Ancient Greece The Children's Homer Black Ships before Troy The Iliad (Classic Starts) The Story of the Iliad (Alfred Church version) The Trial and Death of Socrates (might not use this year - I think it might be too deep for her?) I already own SOTW and thought about having her re-read some of those sections. Is there any way to combine all of this and have it make sense? I don't want us to constantly flip from one book to the next on a daily basis. She's also wanting to dive into Celtic and Norse mythology, but I haven't looked for anything yet. I'm hopeful that I can put some of that under literature/reading. I do think that she would work on some of this independently so might assign some as schoolwork and some as "fun".

Okay, I finally received the order. It was missing the chart, but they did credit the amount. Frankly, after waiting so long I felt they should have discounted the shipping or something (which was $17), but they did send it. I would still call before ordering from them and they are on my "do not order from" list.

Well...I'm not sure if it is resolved. My order still says processing, the money hasn't been taken out of my account, nobody is answering the phone and nobody is responding to email. If anyone is planning to order from here, my suggestion is to place the order over the phone to make sure they are still in business. I'm going ahead and ordering what I can elsewhere. Disappointed. :(

She tests for her second degree brown belt next week and just started JuJitsu. :) She's been in martial arts for five years.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My understanding is that this is a recent position for him (definitely less than a year). This has been an incredible learning experience for my daughter. At the start of the thread, she was ready for people to tell me I was overprotective. :) She knew that I was about to address these issues with the church and didn't want to be the one with the "weird" mom. As a result of this thread, she completely and 100% understands my text/email rules. I think she has a better awareness of my concerns. I need to stress again that while I think the youth minister's actions were not appropriate, he has not personally said or done anything sexually inappropriate. I am not afraid to point that finger should I need to, but I will not accuse someone of something of that nature without good reason. I realize some will not agree with me and that's fine. I am well connected to law enforcement should I have concerns or even need someone to bounce a thought off of...we are not at that point. Also, I'm not going to run from this church because someone has made errors. I do not think my daughter is in danger of being kidnapped or molested. I am not going to teach her to run from situations and to be afraid of men. She needs to see someone advocate for change. That doesn't mean that I turn a blind eye, it just means that I'm not going to be hysterical and have knee-jerk reactions. They fixed the text issue. I don't take that to mean that he lied all along. I believe that he realized this was a bigger issue than he thought and he either took the time to fix it or asked someone else to help him. (I'm going for option 1 as I think he's a bit lazy). Frankly, I'm impressed that the lady I contacted took the time to address it 48 hours prior to her daughter's wedding. She knows that I'm searching for a church and I need to be comfortable before joining. Again, I realize that people are not going to agree with my decision. :) I understand that others have had life experiences that will shade their perception and beliefs. Thank you for those who addressed responses directly to my daughter and those who addressed this experience thoughtfully. I've seen her mature in the last few days and change how she approaches some things. I'm going to ask that the thread be closed. I have appreciated the first several pages of the thread and the more thoughtful replies in the past few. I'm afraid though that this thread is devolving from it's original purpose and some of the posts are verging on hysteria. If anyone is interested in how things finally resolve, I'm open to pm's.

Popping my head back in before I run back to taking care of our oldest. :) They went to Waffle House or some equivalent of it. (I'm hoping Waffle House is well known by all here). We do live in a small town. There was nothing open but convenience stores (and only one of those) in our town. YM suggested the trip. My understanding was that it was a "cool" thing for them to go do. I was horrified but since nobody else sees a problem I simply told dd13 that she wouldn't do anymore lock ins. They used the church van. I'm not sure who all went, but I'm assuming both adults went. Since nobody else saw a problem with it, I figured I was a fuddy-duddy, which is fine with me. :) The trampoline place is specific to the area near me and I don't want to list the name of it. But, it's new and it's cool. All the kids want to go - so "jump on a tramp" was not sarcasm, I think it was innuendo. Miraculously the texting problem was solved yesterday. I started receiving text messages (as did everyone else) regarding complete details of all upcoming activities. The trip out on Sunday has also been cancelled (not sure why).

I've known some people who were sensitive but not Celiac and they didn't react as much, so things are probably fine, especially since you checked. :) I agree with the above, the Pamela's artisan mix or mix it with a gf pizza mix. I looked up the recipe and if I had to make it, I would use some type of pizza flour or the Pamela's artisan or bread mix (but not the pancake mix).

My daughter is gluten free and very sensitive to cross contamination. She won't eat anything made in another kitchen. If you want to cook something for her, (and she's okay with it), maybe buy pre-approved items and go to her kitchen to cook? It's a little weird to suggest, but it's worked out great for us.

My daughter is the same way. She's physically active and busy, but her period will lay her out flat. Her doctor prescribed ketorolac for the pain. I'm not overly thrilled with it - it's known to cause ulcers if you don't take it with food. However, dd says it's the only thing that even touches the pain.

Our girls are in Children's Theatre and love it. DH and I both volunteer there as well.

OneStepAtATime - no, that wasn't her only concern. I was summarizing the phone call. Her husband (who is a deacon) is going to contact the Pastor and a few others. My understanding is that we are going to sit down and talk. She indicated that they would probably change the way they do things but at the moment she simply wanted permission to contact some people on my behalf to let them know that there was a problem.

Thanks for the replies. Martha, your post sums up my feelings. Our households are different, but I'm not happy about the division in our household because of this issue. We are too busy as a family for foolishness. I had sent an email to someone I knew whose daughter is in the youth program. I had expressed a few of my concerns and asked her if she knew the youth pastor personally and so on. She called me today. Her husband is a deacon in the church (which I didn't know). We spoke while I was driving back from dd15's doctor appointment. Her daughter is getting married in a few days, but she felt strongly enough about this subject that she wanted to contact the Pastor and a few others in the church today to resolve it immediately. She said the former *youth* minister (not Pastor) had inappropriate communications with the teens and they were not interested at all in these types of problems continuing. I told her that I was happy to sit down and voice my concerns, I'm not interested in being anonymous. I also told her that he had not done anything inappropriate but I had to wonder why he wasn't respecting DH and my wish to be copied on emails and text messages, especially since he was also a teacher. She indicated that they do not usually use 'permission to transport' forms at their church unless it was out of state. The lack of communication is huge and we both felt it should be addressed. Due to the previous problem, there is a gap of kids that are no longer there. Apparently this is why my daughter is the youngest in the youth group (although they plan to include a grade younger starting next year).

I thought I should clarify one thing before leaving... :) When I say there's no need to fight...there isn't. I'm not in any doubt over whether his behavior is appropriate. I have stated my expectations and Wednesday night was the last straw for me in regards to lack of information. There is no fight because it's either my way or no way. And my way may include no more youth group regardless. Part of the youth group is run by a female, and those are well attended, well chaperoned and open to parents. I don't mind her being involved with those particular activities. Argh! I really need to leave! lol Yes, SKL, she is the youngest in the group. The other kids are 16 and 17. I think that's part of the problem.

Hi CaffeineDiary, I wanted to reply quickly to you (and later to Gargas' post). My oldest has another doctor appt this morning so I'll be out for most of the day. Please remember that my first post was not asking advice for what to do - it was to help my daughter see that others would find this pastor's behavior concerning. She was worried about being the kid with a weird mom. If I've given off the impression that I'm worried about other's perception, let me correct that. I am a parent who is more than happy to battle for my kids. I'm not worried about how others perceive me. There's also no need to do battle. I don't need to 'fight' anyone. I don't believe the youth pastor is behaving appropriately (but I won't go so far as to say grooming as that is a serious accusation and not one that I will say lightly). I think an appropriate step is to remove her from the youth ministry and have her volunteer in the nursery (which she enjoys) until this is sorted out. Contrary to some posters' belief, this is a good church and I know many of the people in it and have enjoyed a close relationship with them. If the youth minister is grooming, this is not something the church is aware of and turning a blind eye towards. This thread has absolutely served it's purpose in convincing my daughter that I'm not just an overprotective mom. It has also helped her realize that his behavior is not appropriate. She now understands my rules for texting adults. I love resolutions where my daughter and I have a meeting of the minds rather than a battle of wits. My plan is to speak to the youth minister and another pastor there. I don't really have a plan beyond that meeting.

My oldest daughter is non-verbal but has occasional echolalia. During a field trip once, the bus went over a large bump which threw the special ed teacher forward. The teacher said, "S*it!" very loudly. My daughter said the word repeatedly, over and over for several days. There was a very embarrassed teacher who had to explain how dd15 learned the new word. ;)

Nobody seemed to think anything of it (if you're referring to the lock in). We had only been at the church for a couple of weeks so I thought maybe i had missed something or was 'behind the times'. My husband typically lets me handle these things. After Wednesday night, he requested that I request a meeting and be more frank about our concerns. (He says that I'm too nice and that guys need plain speaking). He said to let the youth minister know that he would like to speak with him if there is any confusion regarding his communication with our daughter. (He can't go with me because our oldest daughter needs constant supervision). (Incidentally, the situation that started the poll happened Wednesday night. Youth minister told the kids that he was going to take them to a nearby (30 miles away) arts/crafts show between services on Sunday. He told them to bring a change of clothes and he would return everyone in time for church Sunday night. In order for her to participate, I now have to catch up with him - which is not easy - and find out about chaperones, if she needs money to get in, if there is anything there for her to eat due to her medical condition and if outside food can be brought in. DD13 is excited about the outing and is now upset because I told her that she couldn't go. There are no information handouts, no permission to transport forms, nothing. I felt like that was a large enough outing that needed more time to plan.) I talked with her last night and we've decided to have her volunteer in the nursery (which she enjoys) during youth ministry time until things are sorted out.

I took the "jump on a tramp" comment to mean something sexual. The actual text was asking the youth group if they would rather go to a *specific name place* (that is basically a lot of bouncy areas and trampolines) or to a movie. The 17 year old teen's reply was, "Sure, I'm always ready to go jump on a tramp. lol. j/k" It could be that my mind went straight to the gutter as well. :)

TechWife, honestly, I thought she and I had a good relationship. We've discussed sex, her 'crushes', friendship problems and even internet porn. She's made mistakes and come to me to help fix things. I set aside time every night for us to go somewhere quiet to talk, even if it's for five minutes. I'm not sure whether hormones and puberty brought about arguments or if there is another factor. Definitely the church is causing opportunity for arguments between us. I won't let her go places and she's resentful. I would have absolutely tagged our relationship as strong (and to some degree, there's still strength there) before now. I see the wisdom in your words, but I want to make sure you know that I'm familiar with the need for strong relationships with teens and also the need to give individual time to other kids when one child hogs the attention. ;)

Hi TechWife, The Educational Minister has been there a long time. The previous pastor (of the church) was the apparent offender, not previous youth minister. I do not know positively that the incident happened. My daughter just mentioned it to me when I asked her today. I had not heard anything about it as this would have been prior to our starting to attend there. I agree that I thought it odd that someone previously would have done something inappropriate and the church not put guidelines into place. In regards to the sensory room and my daughter, at the moment, I don't intend to have anyone with her due to her aggressive and self-injury behaviors. Others have offered and they have all been special education teachers or medical personnel. They would go through a background check. This particular child is non-verbal so I am over-protective and very careful about who is allowed nearby. My oldest daughter's behaviors are such that I can't conceive of leaving her alone except at school.

A sensory room is commonly used for kids with autism (my oldest daughter's diagnosis). She enjoys things with heavy pressure - it helps her calm down. Sensory items help soothe/stimulate the senses, so good items for her are large yoga balls to lean over and roll on. She enjoys bean bags. Sifting anything helps her calm down - she will scoop and pour rice, water, dirt, anything. She likes ball pits and squeezing playdoh or clay. We have been dropping our other girls off at church and then going onto the playground with our oldest. The church noticed and offered to turn an empty room into something where she could play but I could still watch the sermon on the church's monitor. It's a very generous and kind offer.

To continue addressing comments and questions (and I'm sure I might forget a few people), no, I haven't spoken to other parents (although I just sent an email to someone in the church that I know - her daughter no longer attends youth group, she works in the nursery during those times). I did ask my daughter why the youth group was so small. There are two large churches in town and most kids are split between the two. She said that the last pastor of the church sent inappropriate pictures to some of the youth and people left. That pastor was fired but the kids haven't come back. (Keep in mind that this comes from a 13 year old who apparently heard it from another teenager). I also wanted to mention that we started going in January so we haven't been there for long. At first I thought we were just behind on receiving things but it's become problematic. Since other posts have mentioned vulnerable families and parents (being a higher risk), I wanted to mention that we probably do appear that way. My husband isn't interested in attending church (although he is active in community activities and other things). I have attended in the past, but our oldest daughter (15 years old) is severely disabled and I've quit attending to assist in her care. (She has significant self injury behaviors). We drop the girls off for church activities after we cleared it with the Educational Minister (who is over all of the youth/children's activities). We have known him for several years and he knows my husband well. (The Educational Minister is technically over the Youth Minister by the way). He is the person I plan to talk to about my concerns. He is also working on setting up a sensory room so that my oldest and I can be physically at the church even if we aren't able to fully participate. I'm continuing to read replies and read some of them to my daughter. Thank you. :) She is now convinced that even if she thinks I am totally uncool, that I'm not unreasonable to expect to be copied. Some of the posts that helped make this clear were the ones that mentioned they would be okay with it for older kids, but not her age; also the posts that said they wouldn't have a problem with it, but after I asked to be included then I should have been. Plus the sheer volume of outrage over some of the incidents helped her see that this wasn't appropriate behavior. Thank you all and I'm continuing to read and reply. :)

No, she's asleep. I plan to show her tomorrow and talk with her again. The saddest part of all of this is that we have started arguing over church which we've never done before. She doesn't want to be the one with the "not cool" mom.

I wanted to post and respond to some of the questions. When I've asked about chaperones, he seems confused and assures me that he will be there. I finally had to tell him that I needed to know what FEMALE chaperones would be on the trip/lock in and so forth. So far, it seems that his sister (also an adult) is the only other chaperone available. She seems nice but she also doesn't have a problem with whatever he decides. (I did flip when I found out about the 1:00 am drive to another town - dd is no longer able to attend lock ins). Last minute plans are very difficult for us. Our oldest is significantly disabled and meals/medications must be on time. We also have farm animals that require care. This particular daughter has Celiac Disease so a spur of the moment trip to eat out usually means that she skips a meal so she can join in the fun. Last minute things are a pain. Some of it is her fault for not telling me, but mostly she finds out about a Sunday night pizza trip during Sunday morning worship. Nothing is in writing. He didn't have trouble adding her to his text list, only me. I think he has had some training as a youth minister, but he comes across as "one of the kids". He's married and they have adopted. He's considered the "fun" parent. He's also a public school teacher (which surprised me). Considering that he's a teacher and had to have had some training to be a youth minister, I don't understand why he texts/emails with young female teens. I'm not implying that he's a weirdo, but common sense would indicate that this is something to avoid. Thanks for everyone's opinions so far. I have been very blunt about my thoughts with him, but I plan on trying once more. I do plan to involve the Education Minister (who is 'over' the youth minister) in the hopes that he can help guide him to make better choices.

Our family didn't attend church for many years but several years ago joined a conservative Presbyterian church. The only other children in the church were the pastor's kids. Everything was fine until our pastor moved to another church which left our girls as the only kids. The other members are all older (mostly retired) and it's not a big church anyway. I decided that we should attend another church (Baptist) so the girls could be involved in youth groups. I don't consider myself to be a prude (although I have been accused of being overprotective of my kids). My guess is that having spent several years in a Presbyterian church, I am happy with a slower, more sedate pace. I like the Baptist church and they have been beyond kind to us. My youngest daughter is thriving and happy - new friends and lots of Bible study and memorization. My middle DD, who is 13 years old, is also happy, but I'm not content with her youth minister. He doesn't communicate well with adults. He texts with the kids regarding what trips they should take or activities they should do. I have repeatedly asked to be included in the text list but he keeps two separate lists - one for the kids and one for adults. He says he is trying to combine the two but so far he's been unable to do so. If my daughter has questions, she texts him directly which he prefers. I've asked if he could email the parents but he's had trouble with his email. I've received one 'group' email from him. He hasn't replied to any of my emails to him. We have a tight schedule at our house and part of my problem is that it is really a headache when I find out at the last minute, that the youth group has decided to go out for pizza after church that night. During a church lock in, he decided (at 1:00 in the morning) to drive all the kids to a nearby town (about 40 minutes away) to go to an all night diner to eat. I don't like plans that change (and I've never signed any type of form for her to be transported anywhere). This causes arguments between dd13 and ourselves (DH and I). If it's a last minute plan, I've quit letting her go. I hate doing it, as it punishes her, but I keep hoping that he'll improve his communication. (I've told him the reason she can't go is because I knew nothing about it until the last minute). I've told dd13 to stop texting with him but she "forgets" or believes it's okay since he's a church leader and it's about church activities. (We've recently pulled her phone because of this). We have a rule that she can't text with adults, but the lines get blurred with church leaders it seems. I don't think there's anything creepy about him, but....I don't understand why an adult male (late 30's) thinks that texting a 13 year old girl is okay. When I read the text exchanges on her phone, there's nothing wrong that he says, but the other teen guys (older teens) make comments that I think are odd (ex, "I'd love to go jump on a tramp" - tramp being short for trampoline, but he meant it to be funny - I felt the youth minister should've said something about it being an inappropriate comment). My daughter says I'm over-reacting and don't want to realize that she's growing up. However, she said that she would listen to what other adults had to say as long as the responses come from Christians as well as non-Christians. ;) (She's worried that this is a conservative, Christian, homeschool board and everyone will automatically agree with me). Incidentally, he's trying to build up the youth group which has been steadily declining since he's been in charge. My daughter is one of three girls and four boys. ** Posted more info in post 64 to clarify comments. :) And post 178. And 319.