Something that intrigues me and I am looking into with Dd is the interdisciplinary studies type approach.

We have an explosion of DE in the schools (stimulated by monies from the Race to the Top grants) and I have been a bit suspicious about this happening. It may explain what I have seen the last two years... Agree with the bolded, just wish the AP exams were more accessible (not dependent on a given school allowing a student to sit) and maybe even done twice a year instead of once.

I have seen it (homeschoolers who allowed the child to move on without mastering math at a given level). I see a lot of focus on mastering enough math to score reasonably well (this varies depending on the particular target college) on the SAT/ACT and calling it done. But, I have also seen it with traditional schoolers. The test prep businesses flourish here.

I really like The Art of Poetry http://classicalacademicpress.com/the-art-of-poetry-program/ as a foundation.

The last couple of years, I am seeing it with the homeschoolers. The trend that really makes me wince is cramming math hard in the middle years, then taking a year to prep for the SAT/ACT and then college acceptance and attendance by age 15/16. To produce transcripts, credit is given for just about anything remotely close to content (watching History Channel = World History, Writing practice for the SAT/ACT writing = English Credit...) I am not sure how I feel about it, not sure at all. On the one hand, why not get on with it and knock out that first degree. On the other, it all has to be about something more. Sigh....

I could have quoted your entire post, but snipped to avoid taking big space. The "...basically, the undergrad is irrelevant..." bit is one we keep encountering from students and professors. It is frankly scary. I can understand why so many teens we know are opting to start at age 16 (understand, but not sure how I feel about it). It just seems more and more it (a BA/BS) is viewed as the next certification to say I am what a high school grad was assumed to be decades ago. The thing is they are paying a lot for it and are having to think in terms of paying for a masters, professional degree and/or PhD as well.

For the nationally standardized ones, yes. Some schools have the means to do so as well. In college and some high school classes, instructors will use something along the lines of powerpoint and clickers to quiz the room throughout the class, often using multiple choice as the format. Many graduate or professional exams are a combo of multi choice and essay. AP exams are often multi choice and essay or problem solving. I was listening to one program where they discussed how with the digital format they are able to study the dwell time a student has per question, attempts and corrections, patterns of answering, skips and returns and so forth and are beginning to derive some data that may be very "helpful" in determining student placement, relative ability and so forth. There is a lot of buzz now about machine graded essays. With rubics and algorithms they are showing some pretty amazing results in grading essays via "machine". I want to be skeptical and nay-say, but if they continue to improve it may well be that by the time Dd is in college the blue book will be replaced with a blue box.

This is long at 60 plus pages, but the summary it begins with is very interesting to read: http://heri.ucla.edu/PDFs/40TrendsManuscript.pdf It covers a wide array of topics that pop up on these boards from time to time.

A well designed multiple choice question (or better, series of questions) can very effectively and efficiently be used to distinguish whether an individual understands and learned to recognize and use content and processes. While it is possible to randomly guess the correct answer, doing so consistently over time with a variety of questions is less likely. Grading multiple choice is subject to less subjectivity than essay or short answer, which can be an issue. Help me understand the reason it would be shocking to use multiple choice in assessments.?.?.?. (I prefer a variety of means to determine ability/performance, but wonder why multiple choice should not be used as one of them).

Fair? It is cynical. Harvard, Kings College (Columbia), William and Mary, Princeton and so forth all had admissions exams and/or admissions requirements dating back to their founding. The barrier to entry was often the ability to read Latin and/or Greek and credentialed references. Today, some schools are unabashedly for profit, while some operate more or less in accordance with founding missions (land grant universities, some LAC's). Some are hybrids or waivering on between mission and other motives (prestige, money...). Selectivity has been a real part of the process here and abroad for a very long time. Today, we have colleges to fit almost any interest, need, level of ability and so many other factors. Employers often require college diplomas because they can afford to do so and the cycle results in the ever escalating need for entry to the workforce and selectivity to the gateways to entry. To the extent online education or hybrids challenge the established systems effectively, who knows what the future holds. I can envision in the not too distant future with big data and enhanced assessment learner profiles so detailed employers could cherry pick exact traits, but that is another story.

I am weary of either or propositions. A creator needs fodder to work with and worksheets/workbooks may actually be a very efficient way to practice and build the fodder. I saw discovery learning models and creativity nuturing programs gone awry with Dd for the years she spent in school. Content matters, and sometimes it really is as simple as memorizing a list, filling in blanks, selecting from a assortment of choices and/or other seemingly compliant tasks. Talent without practice and content acquisition, in many arenas, equals potential as opposed to production. Sometimes there is only one right answer to a given question and knowing it can be critical to acceptable performance. On the other hand, content without application and experimentation is ultimately nothing more than can be derived from a static source. Intuition, imagination, inquisitiveness and a load of other skills/talents can languish without opportunities to apply and practice (even to misapply and fail). These often need time and a culture that allows them to be expressed, tried and encouraged. limits on what we can ever hope to affordably accomplish The older Dd gets, the more immersed in the college bound population we are. I see far too many high achieving kids who can't articulate an original question, lack wisdom gained from experience, dismiss the value of any knowledge beyond their areas of excellence, avoid potential failure to the point of never being challenged to overcome adversity, can't communicate effectively... Then I see very creative teens who haven't been challenge to conform when appropriate or necessary to the task. I find myself sympathetic to the claims of college professors and employers that we are failing to fully educate.

If the statements by the professors were saying they see more and more students who can boast high achievements, but lack reasoning abilities and the skills in creative problem solving, I would have a hard time arguing with their observations. Achievement seems to be trumping ability and experience more and more. Achievement can demonstrate ability, but it can also demonstrate other factors which may or may not bode well for the development/ability of a learner capable of analysis, synthesis and creativity consistently over time. Unfortunately, it may also hide deficits in work habits, resilience, and the ability to persist on tasks.

For the purposes you describe, Paul A Foerster's Algebra and Trigonometry Functions and Applications. ISBN 0-201-86101-1

The Teaching Company also has a course on the Vikings done by Harl that is really interesting. It has been a while, but when I was looking I remember finding lots of great stuff on the BBC website.

There are several ways to go about AP's, the key to understand is the distinction between a AP Class and AP Exam. To gain credit for an AP with college (for the colleges that grant credit), it is the AP exam that is needed. The exams are administered in May at private or public schools, and arrangements need to be made with the school to sit for the exam. Exams are scored in a range 1-5, the score a given college requires to give credit depends on the given college (often it is a 4 or 5). You do not have to take the AP class in order to take the AP Exam for the given subject. AP Classes are available online in most subjects. A Google search will turn up options (ex: Pennsylvania Homeschoolers, ChemAdvantage, Thinkwell...) It is possible to create the AP class yourself, submit the syllabus for approval to the College Board and if approved you may list the class on the transcript as AP. A student can self study for the exam, list the class (not as AP) but note the AP score. If you check the College Board AP website, they have loads of sample tests, syllabi, and other information about the AP program overall. Good Luck!

I am struggling with the idea of not doing Alg 2 or some equivalent thereto if the student has any desire for college, community college ... without it in some form how do they prepare for the SAT or ACT? If I absolutely could not envision a particular student making it thru Alg.2, I think I would want to cover consumer topics and at least very basic statistics with an eye toward being able to negotiate the world of mortgages, retirement savings, taxes, weighing financial decisions, insurance purchases/comparisons and so forth.

If the world of opportunities did not run on the public school schedules....oh a gal can dream right?

It really is funny how it can be so different in different areas and with different kids. The Fall for us means everything starts and adjustments to the new routines. With each dance class, the replacements/sizings of shoes...theatre brings new rehearsal schedules...classes online or locally start and forms/paperwork for clubs and so forth all must be submitted. I think it hits us because there rarely is more than a week at most between the swift pace of one camp or intensive and another in the summer and all the beginnings. This year, we only had a weekend between the last summer actvity ending and the first online course beginning and several of the dance/theatre classes beginning. I hope to avoid that happening again. We honestly just bit off a lot this time around and it made everything harder than it had to be. The end of this tunnel is near...after Thanksgiving we can clear our mornings of any clutter. Fortunately, we are not hugely behind in anything, it just has been very stressful. Being shut in during the winter motivates us to get work done.

Every year it seems I have to just remind myself the Fall "semester" just is tougher. The transition from summer doings to settling in and hitting the books just takes time to really see a consistency and flow. So many holiday's and must do during the late August to January 2nd period, it just feels choppier than the Winter/Spring.

Jenny: My thoughts and best wishes are with you as I follow your son's story. So far he has found the answers in the pinch, here's to him making magic once again! We have a couple of friends who found themselves in the graduation/college application fray this year (earlier than they may have thought). I am hoping the fever doesn't spread to Dd.

Bill: Some homeschoolers underestimate what is happening in the better schools...I can agree. Some do. You will occassionally hear an offhand comment to the effect that whatever ones does homeschooling academically has got to be better than what is happening in the schools academically. I am not sure what your point is when you post. Why does it matter if some homeschoolers underestimate what is happening in some public schools?

Standards do not equal what happens in classrooms.

I am a bit concerned about the upcoming Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks. Dd is just getting the stride and I wonder if we will pick back up after a break smoothly. However, I think we both need a bit of a breather.

I am going to second this. We pulled Dd from school late elementary and the three major changes the system made to spelling instruction methods really left her with a mess. She is/was a very bright kid, but came to homeschooling with spelling that was awful. Three years of working steadily with Spelling Workout consistently worked wonders. We didn't need the teachers manual and we omitted/altered a bit of the weekly practice work. We used the older version, but I think I would look at the newer one if starting now.

As I read this thread it struck me...planning for middle school baffled me, the high school part came much easier in terms of selecting materials and resources. The mushy middle years gave me far more headaches than highschool has so far. With high school it seems easier to think in terms of what we want to cover and then construct the how. With the middle years, the goals were less fixed and it was more difficult to guage progress as we went.