I know a lot of people who work in the system who would agree with you and can cite example after example of the homeschool kids they encounter once it fails. The reasonable ones go on to note they ones who enter school without problems don't stand out and thus are not noticed and the ones making it work at home they don't see. The issue for me, in part, is about ultimately paying the costs. The student who enters college unprepared and takes huge amounts of loan debt subsidized by the taxpayer costs us all a lot. I am weary of college for everyone, until everyone is ready for college, and that doesn't happen enough in any educational settings.

The following is coming from a friend who recently put her child in and commented on what she wished she had done: 1. Teach him to write his full name on everything to be turned in. 2. Teach him to record assignments into a planner or on an app. 3. Teach him to cite basic things in MLA. 4. Work more on timed short answers 5. Explain about head lice...yeah it was an issue she had to worry about when the letters went home week 3 6. Teach internet responsibility and consequences (her child had way more freedom at school than she allowed at home) if I remember others she mentioned I will post later

Again, I love the first quote... I could do with less of the day to day negotiations :cursing: , but I realize someone will have to do them at some point or simply will not care, if I don't confront the challenge now. Dd taking these classes has cut down a great deal of the "negotiation" and that justified the cost in terms of peace. She sees it isn't a mom is tough thing. I do worry we don't have the time to practice things as much as might be best, but I struggle to see where to find more time.

TY for sharing.

I remember a professor saying: "You will not find the answers for my exam questions in the books assigned for this course or in the lectures, but you will find components of what will be needed to constitute the answer which will receive an A or a B grade and demonstrate you learned." The next class session 1/3 had dropped the course and others were on the fence.

I see kids with real challenges and their parents facing really tough decisions about how to help them build a sustainable life. I admire them and how they strive in the face of the challenge. When I see parents of kids who are able walk away from the work of assuring they can be prepared I get angry. Sometimes they just don't want to be the enforcer of standards but are unwilling to let anyone else do it either. That just makes me cringe.

It is a good book and I enjoy reading it and thinking. I love the word choice of fearsome in relation to practice.

Nan...I could quote repeatedly from what you wrote. The bit about music and few being willing to listen to the results made me laugh, so true. One thing I do not regret so far with Dd is clearly establishing between us what would be required for her to earn a diploma/graduate from our "school". She was given the opportunity to look at the options available at other schools (which might be feasible alternatives) and decide. It might seem cold and rigid, but with her boundaries and clear expectations often set us both free and avoid strife. We revisted it as we wound up last year, the requirements did not change but I wanted her to be clear on the expectations and own the choice. Over the last couple of years Dd is taking, or has taken, a couple of courses online or on-site that have helped me frame expectations a bit. Watching her do Lukeion, APUSH online, and a couple of locally offered courses in the sciences and humanties has given me a frame of reference in terms of what is reasonable to expect from her and from a course of study. It has helped to guage how much can be done in a week, what challenging looks like at this level and what at least someone(s) else with experience deemed reasonable in terms of expectations. When asked now, I suggest it is worth it to us trying a couple of courses recognized for their expectations and get a feel for what to do in other content areas. It is expensive, but I think it may have saved us some experimentation costs and bought some peace of mind. It has been good for her and for me to see she can do it by some external standards beyond tests. I love the way you describe your thinking and goals. I think this helps us all and especially those trying to get a handle on what to do and how. I am out in the world a great deal and wind up in a lot of conversations with parents and teens about highschool, college and education in general. There are so many extemes and nuance doesn't seem in practice. The changes in the system in the last couple of years seem to generate even more talk. It is refreshing to see/read/hear a thoughtful response/conversation.

Nan, sorry your post poofed, look forward to the follow up. I am chewing on my own question tonight...

Not gymnastics, but performing arts did play a part in our decision to homeschool and ultimately to continue homeschooling thru the highschool years. The schedules of the activities associated with these passions make it rather difficult to work with additional deadlines externally from school. Schedule and pacing control makes for user friendly living.

The thread about the college professor's comment (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/493869-the-high-stat-kids-cant-think-they-cant-apply-what-they-supposedly-know/) made me think about that process that goes something like: from exposure>>> to recognition>>> to familiarity>>>to application>>> and then mastery/creative use/ability to manipulate with dexterity and ultimately to mastery. This made me wonder about what high school studies should aim to do. Should mastery be the goal, always, in every arena? When the expectation is a buffet of content areas and skills sets...what practices yield the result or is it really possible? Learning how to learn is a skill, but then sometimes learning how to cram and get past an obstacle may be a useful skill as well. I often hear some high schoolers talk about how it feels like a lot of cramming then on to the next thing. I can see why it might, given the nature of high school. ________ It would be interesting to hear what others do to keep high school from being a drive-by or tour and move on experience.

Scouting, church stuff, piano, plus participation in math camps/science fairs/research, classes outside the home (via internet) for a homeschooler ... sounds like an array to me. I haven't gotten the impression that broad array means everything and the kitchen sink. My impression was that they wanted to see some initiative, something to a student's life beyond academics, something to indicate a personality and drive. Many times I have heard comments that lean negative toward too many activities that when added together leave open the question of whether the student could have really been involved in so many things. Actually of late, some of the really intense types we know have taken even that to an extreme and don't allow their kids to try anything that may detract from the pattern (swimmer girl says mom I want to try chess once a week with some friends, Mom discourages with cautions of depth/not breadth).

I suspect some of it is geographical. Although it varies a great deal from district to district in the US, our local district has IB themed middle schools, with feeder elementary schools to those which emphasis IB elements. Students can attend the IB high schools without having attended the middle school feeder, but a sizable chunk start early in the process. A big trend locally is for IB students to take AP classes in addition to their IB workload. The thing is these kids generally are not exposed to a great deal of diversity anywhere along the way and a great deal of the program's strengths are lost to it all being more theorectical than practical and real for them.

Admissions goals versus departmental goals... The most selective schools should be able to fill the incoming class with the all of the above type who will demonstrate a record of outstanding academic performance and a full array of extracurricular accomplishments. Thus, this would be a bigger issue for those schools that may be at the next level of selectivity?

In a couple of words...nonconformity and absence of inhibition. As people age, they tend to gain affirmation from their compliance and achievement within systems. The 4 or 5 year old is less likely to show restraint than the 9 or 10 year old.

Yup.

I think two other things are at play as well. 1) Homeschooling is growing, the demand is higher. 2) Increasingly more content is available electronically and a demand for print continues.

I wonder in a big way about the students who might be not the top 1%, but would be in the top 5 or 10%. Are they being challenged in high school and are they finding their way to college without really being called upon to meet challenges?

Many of those listed we like, but I would have to add: "Yes, Virginia There is a Santa Clause" Beautifully illustrated version of the newspaper editorial response.

I see it all around me, but not just in the schools.

In fall 2013, a record 21.8 million students are expected to attend American colleges and universities, constituting an increase of about 6.5 million since fall 2000. Nearly 7.5 million students will attend public 2-year institutions, and 0.5 million will attend private 2-year colleges. Some 8.2 million students are expected to attend public 4-year institutions, and about 5.6 million will attend private 4-year institutions. http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372 ---------------------- ----------------------------- Somewhere between the Ivies and the averages on the SAT/ACT are a whole lot of students going to colleges.

The following taken from About.com: The average overall SAT score (50th percentile) in the United States for 2012 was a 1498: Critical Thinking: 496 Math: 514 Writing: 488 National ACT score averages look like this for 2012 Average Composite Score: 21.1 Average English Score: 20.5 Average Mathematics Score: 21.1 Average Science Reasoning Score: 20.9 Average Writing Score: 7.1 ------- -------- I pulled these for the sake of discussion. The ACT score for the Ivies is 30-34, the SAT 2200+.

Well earned for Mom and Son!

Just relating with the above...big time!

That is a fair response and taken to heart because I often find my faith renewed by reading the adventures of so many of those posting here.