Just goes to show the adage, "even Faith has limits"

I am so going to have to assign Dd a write up on what happens to the drifting immovable bodies displaying lack of energy in hyperspace next time I see her drift......

Note this quote from the preface of Saxon Physics: This book contains 100 lessons and covers in considerable depth all the topics normally presented in the first two semesters of an engineering physics course. The unique method of topic development used should make this bok an ideal book for pre-med students or for an advanced placement physics course since the presentation is designed to emblazon the fundamental concepts of physics in the long-term memory of the student.....The trigonometry required is taught in this book beginning with vectors in Lesson 3. At least one vector problem appears in almost every problem set for the rest of the book. The calculus used is restricted to the calculus of polynomials, the mechanics of which are taught in Lesson 22. This permits the use o f calculus for finding the rate of change of a function to include practice with the idea that velocty is the rate of change of the position faction and accleration is the rate of change of the velocity function....."

You indicated you looked at Saxon but no one commented on it. A couple of things about it might work for what you described about yourself and your Dd. 1. You will be able to have a full solutions manual. 2. There are plenty of teacher supports (dvds and such) 3. The dwell time initially on any topic is small (5-7 problems) and then the topic is reinforced with a problem or two as part of the problem set for each lesson. For a kid who doesn't want to continue working on problems once they "master" the topic, mastery based texts can present a challenge. The kid will decide, "Oh I got this" after doing 5 or 10 problems and move on to the next topic. If they never do the review problems some mastery programs set out with each lesson, they can finish the book having temporarily mastered a lot but retained very little. Saxon is kinda sneaky in not letting that happen. They are not forced to do a slew of problems redundantly when they are introduced to the topic, but they do have to continuously revisit the topic in bits over time. The down side: To work effectively you can't toy with Saxon. Each problem matters and expands on the original concepts. Thus, no skipping or you might as well not be doing the program. Like the one poster said, once you narrow your choices down, let your child really look over the options and buy into the one she prefers. Dd actually surprised me when she chose Saxon, I simply would not have chosen it for her. She did and years later it continues to work very well. If you choose it, you also need to decide whether you will go the old or new route (geometry integrated, geometry not integrated).

Make that a third! If you are planning on trying to work thru Wheelocks outside a class, the Grote book is basically a must have IMHO.

TY for posting, with so many interesting things to keep an eye on it is great when others post what they notice.

One thing I try to make sure Dd knows is that college can actually really be a great deal of fun. I am not talking about parties or such, more the experience of having a smorgasboard of offerings to indulge the mind over four years. I joke that education and vacation have a great deal in common. College allows the chance to season oneself before entering the punch the clock world of work and bills. Seems a shame to miss it.

One thing I do that I find really helps me relax and let go a great deal more is I spend about $5.00 per subject to buy those laminated quick study (barcharts). Those and a TOC from a text I am comfortable with give me a sense of we want to cover within a subject in the time available. The more secure I am in that arena, the easier it is to let go. There are some things that just are what they are and we march, usually it is Dd's choice. Saxon math would be a prime example of this. It doesn't leave a lot of room for being deviant or wandering. I tend to be a noncomformist and find it hard to follow a curriculum precisely as written. However, I will say that having those boundaries and that pacing for the math piece tends to keep us from going too far off the reservation in general. It provides some consistency and predictability that in turn frees us up a great deal in other areas.

:wub: What She Said!!!!

Do you think you liked Tindall more because it was less "wordy" than American Pageant? I stuggle finding what it is about American Pageant that doesn't enthuse me. It is certainly widely used and suggested for AP, but something about it just doesn't click. Something like it almost tries to be too much....? Thinking aloud.

Spelling Workout has a level G and H. They change up the format a bit and included crosswords, analogies... We used them, but, we did not follow them precisely. For example, we skipped the review as we went along and then at the end of the year she went back and did all the reviews one week at a time. Within each lesson we cherry picked the activities. We did no testing/quizzes. The idea was to keep her thinking about spelling and keep up practice, but not drill. We also used Wordly Wise and like with Taryn, Dd just liked it. We really found Hake 8 to be a great way to cap off Grammar. We put most of our Language Arts energy into reading, reading, reading! I agree with the others suggesting to give science its due in the middle years. It is just a great time to let them explore. We were lucky to have really great local opportunities to take advantage of and build upon at home.

I know a lot of folks do two books from the series over the middle years (usually 6 and 8) because the review is so much. We did not do any other than 8 and having done it, I don't think I would have done all 4 books. However, I am convinced doing 8 was one of the smartest moves we did on our homeschool journey.

One approach is to consider doing the Classical Academic Press set: Art of Argument, Discover of Deduction and Argument Builder. I was initially concerned Dd would not take to Art of Argument or it would be too light. She loved it. It is informal logic, but does a great job of creating a doorway into logic studies in a formal manner and is written in an engaging way.

In Hake 8 the last 5 lessons are spelling rules.

One other article about Geometry and logical thinking skills.... http://www.educationnews.org/k-12-schools/the-modern-day-high-school-geometry-course-a-lesson-in-illogic/

Regentrude won the press enter race. :thumbup1: I read the books years ago as they were published. Dd reads them as some nights before tucking in, she likes nonfiction and says she likes Bennett's narrative style. Tindall's is a smooth read as well, so either would work.

The Ellen McHenry materials make a great launch pad for co-op classes.

The Oh Yuck! and Horrible Histories were big hits. Phineas Gage = another one. Ripley's, the Guiness Books, any of the Wierd (insert state name) and so forth are all hits.

This is actually from Mr. Reed's website, not the "Saxon" official site. However, he explains well the way Saxon's previous editions handle proofs. The key is which ediitons of Saxon you choose to use. We chose to use the editions before the publisher took Geometry out of the Alg 1/Alg2 series (We used Alg 1 3rd edition, Alg. 2 3rd ediiton). If you use these "older" editions and the student completes the first half of Advanced Math, they will have learned and practiced doing proofs as described by Mr. Reed in the excerpt. In very simplistic terms, proofs in Geometry challenge the student to display in an orderly manner the "why" behind a given theorem. It is a form of systematic reasoning. This link http://math.kendallhunt.com/documents/dg4/gp/dg4_gp_02.pdf is helpful in explaining. IMHO, it is at the stage where a student is challenged to consider and express "why" in any field that the student begins to demonstrate their understanding and make the connections that bring the field to life.

Maybe William Bennett's American The Last Best Hope. Three volumes, written in narrative (like SOTW), and if you want there is a website with supplementary items.

Honestly, wouldn't we all prattle about ps parents who didn't see to it their kids are doing their homework? Maybe we just expect something that we shouldn't? Don't know, just thinking?

Great book. I had Dd watch his booktalk about it because it gave us an opportunity to have so many discussions about so many issues. I agree that CC will not solve all the issues impacting schools or K-12 education. I don't agree that we should expect any one thing to tackle so many issues, or that we should do nothing on the premise we can't do everything.

It really is startling when you weigh in the number of high school drop outs, plus the number of college drop outs, and try to figure out what they will do to earn a living.

This may be one of those rare situations were a GED might be the answer?

Swimmermom, We all pay for poor standards now. We pay in increased taxes to fund remedial classes in our community colleges/universities. We pay when otherwise capable kids fail to have the opportunity to learn skills that will allow them to perform higher paying jobs and contribute to the tax base more significantly. We pay when kids move from one school to another and are lost in the shuffles. We pay when we must increase testing to somehow verify what the quality level of content might have been. We pay when kids become lost in the system and drop out, we may well pay for them for the rest of their lives. One of the failures of NCLB was the inability to compare results from the data generated. Many of the states opted to create their own assessments. Thus while everyone was teaching to a test, they were teaching and learning to so many different tests no data driven improvements could be made from the data. Whole huge administrative staffs at the state level were paid to create tests, analyze tests and so forth. These publishers were making money before and they will make money after. We paid for professional development before and we will pay after. It is more like the married couple that defers needed maintenance on the house they are live in paying constantly for repairs and quick fixes, that would be better off if they had the work needed done, than the one who eyes a dream house. I agree we are in very difficult times for many states. The governors know that, they signed on to this. It is worth asking why. It is worth reading the standards that may influence what the thresholds your children will need to cross will be. It is worth evaluating whether they are solid standards or poor ones. I continuously see issues raised about the how the reform is happening. I would love to see actual discussion of the standards themselves.