lovemyboys
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Posts posted by lovemyboys
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I think it goes back to "rights" vs "ethics." Everything is permissable, but not everything is benefical (for the community as a whole.)
The other issue is calling a group "Christian", and then saying, "but only certain Christians.
At the risk of lobbing in an incendiary post, perhaps it would help to think of this wrt another religion like Islam. Would you expect that Shi'a Muslims would want to study and socialize along with Sunni Muslims or another branch/sect? All are under the same umbrella of a religion and share the same name, but the beliefs and practices are different. Would you decry their reluctance to have their children influenced or taught another form of their religion? Or tell them that they aren't being inclusive enough when they create an SOF that outlines what their group is and asks that all members agree to it.
Fwiw, I don't particularly care for the signed-SOF style groups. If a group wants to define who they are so that others are aware and agree to abide by such if they join, so be it. Iow, don't read the SOF and then work to change the parts of the group that you don't like even though you were aware of them when you joined. IMO, that should be enough.
But if a group goes with the signed-SOF, that's their choice. It can be my choice not to join. I suspect that some go this route after they've had the experience with people trying to change things as I mentioned in the previous para.
The number one reason people form these groups is for to benefit their children. It is NOT to benefit the community as a whole. I think that fact is getting lost in the shuffle here. I'm going to do what is best for the education of my children.I'm not saying that it is not a good and worthy goal to form clubs that enhance the community of such and such town. I'm not saying that a particular homeschool group might also enhance the community of such and such town. But that is a byproduct. It is NOT the reason the homeschool group exists. It is formed for the benefit of the founder's children and it is joined by other's for the benefit of their children.
I only buy curriculum that benefits my children. I don't buy curriculum because it would enhance someone else's business or ministry.
So yes, it is both right AND ethical for me to do what is in the best interest of my children if that happens to mean that a family with different values doesn't get to discuss literature or science with us. And I'm sorry they don't have anyone else to discuss these things with. I am not obligated to discuss with them just because they also happen to school at home and not many other people in the town do.
Well said, though I would add that the people who form a group often do so for the moms (most often schooling) as well as the kids. With our groups, we moms enjoy our time of discussion, wrestling over curricula and child-rearing as much as the kids enjoy their time together.
The irony here is that what you've said above is basically why many of us homeschool. If we were terribly concerned about benefitting the community at large, perhaps we should have our brilliant students enrolled in the public schools. :001_huh:
But again, :grouphug: to OP in her frustration. Hope she finds (or creates ;) )a good fit before long.
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Does someone have to belong to a group to do field trips or have play dates? Because this is the first year I've been part of a co-op (which, btw, has no statement of faith, but rather a code of conduct) and I've never had a problem calling up another hs friend or two and saying, "Hey, let's take the kids to the park Friday."
I moderate a yahoo group of homeschoolers in our area and there are many field trips and play dates arranged via the loop. We have no SOF; it's just a group of HSers. You can choose who to build a relationship with there.
OP, have you thought about starting something like a yahoo group? It would be a good way to share info about local events, etc, as well as a way to meet other HSers without the SOF issue getting in the way.
This is a great idea.
We live in an area now that has a number of groups of all description. Our last home had far fewer actual groups but a number of yahoo groups. It was a great way to gather up people by posting a meet-up at a particular park, museum, beach, and sometimes people who lived a fair distance would go just to meet each other IRL. These get-togethers often spawned a regular park-day or science group ... good way to get started. You can often "advertise" with a state group/convention to get the word out.
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Why is it that all the academic co-ops around here have one that excludes families who believe in additional scripture? I am so frustrated right now! Sheesh! We are all Christians. What is the big deal? It makes me feel like they see us as riffraff who would somehow pollute their children.
Thanks for listening.
Posted in the general hub-bub of conversation elsewhere, but wanted to wish you well in finding something that will be good for your family ... I know how frustrating it can be to find a good group, families that can be friends, etc. Good luck with your search.
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But apparently the group the OP tried to join does require the signing of such a document.
I'll have to ask if maybe since you are not on the other side you can't see how what you see as guidelines for behavior is something totally different to those not on your side.
Actually, I have been on the other side of things.
I get that the OP was sad and frustrated and venting here. As usual, posts wander all over and become bigger than where they started, especially in matters of faith.
I have experienced the isolation of homeschooling in an area that has few groups nearby. And realized after a few visits that despite the fact that one was "the only act like it in town," that it would not be a good fit for our family. The funniest part about it was that it was an "all-inclusive" group that was actually surprisingly rigid with negative opinions for all that didn't fit their philosophies. Watching how they treated people, we decided to move on ... but it wasn't easy since there wasn't anything else at the time. I realize that it was our decision as opposed to a group SOF in our case.
While these are frustrating situations, I still agree with Sola's point. :001_smile:
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......
Yes, the Christian group has the right to exclude the Jewish family, but does that make it right?
That is where people have problems with SOFs.
Many here have said that in their groups the SOF doesn't need to be signed, it's a statement of the group's beliefs so that all members understand. Ime, these statements are often used as the guideline for behavior, interaction (discouraging proselytizing, for instance) and group "identity."
But it goes back to the larger point that Solamichela was making -- just because the group exists doesn't mean that it has to accept everyone and/or that you have a right to membership there just because it's the only one in town.
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:iagree::iagree::iagree:
And, I don't understand why every thing must be for every body. Why are people supposed to compromise their values just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt? Have people become so infantile that they have to have a part of every. little. thing. or they throw a fit and scream about how unfair it all is? And, why in the world would anyone want to be part of a group that holds different values and wants like-minded people in it? This makes no sense to me. I won't allow someone in my home who would influence my dd in a way that's counter to my values. Why in the world would I want to force myself into a group and make them accept me if we're just totally different? That's awkward for everyone.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about groups that are hostile and intentionally hurtful (but even if a group was, why would you want to be there anyway?), but if a group says up front, "Here's what we believe and we want to be a group that believes XYZ" why in the world get mad that you're not a good fit? Move on or create a group yourself.
Anyway, I just don't get the "everyone must accept ME ME ME but I'm allowed to be disparaging toward others if I don't like them" mentality.
Why indeed. Well said!
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Well...It will blow the "if you don't like the security procedures, don't fly" theory. TSA is expanding their reach in the name of "safety".
Right.
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:ack2:
and packages (randomly), of passengers. WTOP just e-mailed me the story.... because of the recent threats. I remember when security screenings were more random at airports...I remember when there were no security screenings in airports. I wonder how long before the nudie scanners arrive at a Metro stop near you....:glare:
Wonder how effective it'll be, given the political sensitivities at play wrt airport security.....
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after 7.5 years. My kids have gone from little kids to almost adults.
Not that we have been doing much the last couple of weeks. Dd16 finished her online course. The books I wanted them both to finish are ...well, mostly finished. Bits and pieces we were finishing up are done. And we havent really been doing much school for a few weeks.....but today was the last official day. (end of school year here- summer holidays).
I was thinking to take them somewhere special to mark our last day- a movie, lunch... But my rather extremely socialised teens are too busy with their friends...they would be doing it just for me and I don't want to do that. Instead I am thinking of making a scrap book of our homeschooling years. I think I am getting sentimental.
Partly its because...now what am I? I have been "a homeschooling mum" for all these years. It's such a strong identity. WHen people ask "what do you do?" I have had an answer...an interesting answer that provokes interesting conversation.
I am enjoying the freedom and time to myself already since my kids are out so much.
But the next passion hasnt come yet...I am very lucky...many things I could do...but I dont know what, yet. So, I am taking holidays and ...probably decluttering the house and going to the beach regularly and seeing my friends a bit more. My kids are growing up. But they still need feeding and hugs and ...boundaries!
I will hang around here though.
Congratulations!!! :001_smile:
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I know a lot of you are still praying for us since we lost our son. I am actually doing a whole lot better than I thought I would be doing with the holidays. Scary in a way because I keep expecting for me to completely go insane at any moment. Yesterday marked a year since we had seen Timmy. My dh is really struggling with anxiety. I think he not only misses him so much, but he is waiting for me to crash. It is really putting a lot of stress on him. Add to that - he is on anxiety meds - has been for years. Right before Thanksgiving he picked up a new refill and they changed the mfg. I have been reading that this doesn't work well with this particular drug. I have the old mfg. ordered for tomorrow. Right now, he is feeling very edgy and anxiety filled. If you could pray for some peace for him. I have my moments and I spent some time in my closet sobbing yesterday morning, but I am doing okay. Thanks y'all!
Hugs and prayers.
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have you used for this? We've used salt dough before, but I'm a little short on salt. I'm thinking of using oatmeal play dough, but I wonder if it will be firm enough to actually build a volcano?
Any input? Thanks!
Dirt? Modelling clay?
We've used a whole variety of things. Not familiar with the oatmeal dough, can you add something in to strengthen it, even something non-edible?
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Sorry, Heather. I think most Americans have no idea what a nightmare it is to deal with immigration paperwork and procedures. It is really frustrating for those with families from other countries, and I think you've gotten a taste of it. I don't think it's that easy for most illegal immigrants, but it's just sort of standard (unfortunately) for all of this to be a big hassle.
I agree.
:iagree:
It's just the whole gov't bureaucratic hassle. Getting passports and visas for our family was ridiculous. On the second trip, I remember biting my tongue to keep from asking what was so difficult with a process that they worked with all day long. Surely the fine print on the backs of forms, the steps, the exceptions were all pretty well known to them, right? All-in-all it took 3 trips to have everything they required, and that doesn't count a couple phone calls dh made for clarifications.
Heather, did you get any info about the denial? Were any reasons given? Checking with your representatives sounds like a good idea. Hope you get some answers and help there. Trust in God's timing too. : )
(I will stick my head up and say that wrt illegal immigration -- just because the process is tedious or difficult isn't an excuse for ignoring the process all together and going the illegal route. We all deal with frustrating and incompetent folks at the DMV but we still put up with it to get driver's licenses.)
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Mariann, thanks for letting us know. I will be praying for her and her husband. This is a VERY BIG deal and it bothers me no end that the neighbor across the street draws disability for a bad back but takes cash money for BALING HAY in the summers and though turned in, the government doesn't care but your daughter who truly deserves it, is being cut off!
I will definitely be praying about this.
Faith
I've noticed a lot more advertisements explaining medicare/medicaid fraud and similar ... how to spot it, avoid it and report it. The closing line gives the message, "keeping it honest so there's more money for legitimate claims." The fraud #s must be staggering.
When I was growing up, our high school principal did this (worker's comp). He lived not far and we would see him doing "impossible" things when we drove past. :glare:
Sorry to hear about your dd, Mariann.
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Yes, it was rather interesting to watch. As O walked out, you could physically see Bubba morph back into his old role. His demeanor shifted, his facial expression changed, and he just... took command of the situation. It was wild to watch. There is a vid of that moment (but not the whole presser) here.
I haven't been able to find vid of the entire presser.
a
Watched this and your other clip of the full thing.
The body language is fascinating, isn't it? The president clearly anxious for Clinton to finish up, changing positions, moving closer, crossing his arms as Clinton continues to talk. Then makes his exit. And Clinton is clearly at ease with the subject and the whole scene, hand in pocket, leaning on podium, expanding.
I'm sure they did intend for it to be a couple minutes, but Clinton was famous for this kind of thing .... waxing eloquent on any and all topics. I would imagine that the reporters in the room enjoyed the event as well.
The downside for the president is that Clinton does have that charisma and the passage of time mellows the offenses in people's minds and he doesn't look as strong standing off to the side waiting for the opening to check his watch and excuse himself to head to a holiday party with his wife when the country's economic situation is being discussed.
Thanks for posting the links.
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Sorry if I misunderstood the op. But I still feel that as long as everyone is getting something, then it is not anyone else's business what any one particular family brings for their children.
Welcome to the world. Life is not fair. We do not all receive the same measure of anything. IMO, it is much better to teach the children to be content with that which they have, to be tolerant of the behavior/choices of others even when it is different from ours, and to get over that feeling of entitlement to equal treatment or to receive whatever you prefer.
.......But I deal with it and move on, because life is not fair and I have many blessings of my own to enjoy. Why work so hard to deny these children the opportunity to learn these lessons at a young age in a low stress environment?
IMO, it is doing them a significant disservice to promote the perception that life will be fair, that we will all get to have the best or none of us should be permitted to.
:iagree: :iagree: And also the message that Mommy and Daddy control things and will always make things fair because that's what everyone has to have.
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Ds got a play kitchen the same year he got a ride on forklift for Christmas. It took some work to find a less girly kitchen, but man we had fun with that for years.
Maybe Alton Brown needs to design a line of toys for children.
For us, it was a sewing machine. The case was barbie-pink. Ds wanted to sew stuffed animals and little pouches for treasure hunts.
Turned out it was a decent machine to start with but inadequate for his skill after a season. But it was irksome that they couldn't make the case and accessories a more neutral light blue, purple, green.
Crafty boys here as well. It's discouraging when perfectly good crafts are so decidedly gender-specific.
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We are loving it too. Although I have to question my intelligence in giving my kids all the secrets that I use with them (ie red herring etc.) Now they holler out "red herring!" at me when I evade them.:tongue_smilie:
Argghh.
Same reason I'm not too thrilled about teaching them the modern languages that dh and I know. :glare:
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Our current plan is to through the scanners (they have them here at JFK) and pray that none of us are chosen for a pat down. If we are, well, I will request fresh gloves!
I am mostly concerned about my daughters...it is just so creepy!
:iagree: They're exempting small children but I think pre-teen/teen girls would be particularly alarmed at this. And their parents for them.
I've heard it suggested that the aggressive pat-downs may be a round-about way of having us put up with the scanners. That's a lot of new expensive technology that they don't want to go to waste.....
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We started Fallacy Detective with our 10 and 13 yr old boys last week. They are loving it! I can use it as incentive to get other things done. Last night my 13 ds came into my room around 10pm and whispered, "Mom, I really want to read Fallacy Detective, can I?" How could I say no. He finished it in one night. Now he keeps using them on me and asking me which fallacy he's using. Ah, the joys of finding a good curriculum!
Same here. Someone IRL mentioned that it's not good to rush the logic, but then I saw ds sitting there reading it .... over the summer!
:001_smile:
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Sis is taking job in the other town, therefore making money, parents will help her get a nice house, girls will be enrolled in the private school my parents helped start decades ago, everyone should be settled in before Christmas.
:lol::lol:
Such excellent news! So glad for your sis that things are working out this way!
:D
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From prior cut-offs, I know that most people get jobs within a few weeks of the benefits going away. What they do at this point is settle for jobs they wouldn't settle for while getting benefits.
:iagree: A relative of mine who's been out of work for many long months told me when they were extended the last time that he wished they were not extended.
He said that the unemployment benefits are just enough to cover you if you live very carefully. Because of that (he's in a field that's shrinking), you avoid taking an interim job, settling for something, relocating to get going.
Basically he's just treading water. And he's been doing that for a loong time. He even turned something decent down at one point, because it wasn't quite right and he would've had to move. It's so tough for him and it's hard to see him stuck like this because we really love him dearly.
It seems like the compassionate thing to do to keep pumping money into this "benefit" but it's not.
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:iagree: And it's probably part of the reason my boys do not have health issues or weight issues (aside from being perhaps too underweight) even though we don't care to always eat healthy. Of course, we don't always eat unhealthy either, but I think exercise is a bigger component of health than specific foods. It's been true in our extended family anyway.
How about this question for SF ... Will they allow a little toy in the meal if the McDonald's has a play place? My dc barely touch their meals if there's one of those climbing structures there. Maybe that offsets the nutritional value in some way ... like carbon offsets. ;)
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Yes, but figuring out a way to get these folks off their bums from in front of their desk, TV, video games, or anything else and get them out exercising would do FAR more for their health than eliminating toys with Happy Meals. Even so, I wouldn't support gov't enforcing exercise any more than I do with their passing this latest blunder (except in schools where I think they should have PE and healthy food options). I just don't support any minority/majority telling the majority/minority what they must do if it doesn't affect someone else directly. It sets a VERY bad precedent.
Yes!!!
I remember about 15 years ago when a new superintendent of a very wealthy school district outlawed recess because it took away time for math and reading -- from the kindergartners!
Who wants to be holed up with 20+ kids who haven't gotten any exercise all day??? And we wonder why there are problems.
Recent pushes for "healthier" lunch options have taken chocolate milk out of one county's lunchrooms. It's milk for heaven sakes. Don't tell me that all-natural organic fruit juice is a better option than milk with some chocolate "flavoring" -- especially if that's the only milk some of these kids will get in a day. Otherwise, what are the options? Plain milk, water, I guess.
But reversing our lack of exercise and more sedentary lifestyles are key to changing a lot of the health issues today. Much of it isn't time, it's choices. We live in a neighborhood with many 2-income families, we rarely see kids outside playing pickup games, riding bikes, running around. They're in their basements playing video games. It's "safer."
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Music -- residents love to hear music, especially the older familiar tunes. There's often a piano in the dining room of nursing homes or you could bring a keyboard. Can kids take turns playing tunes? During this season they'll perhaps be inundated with scouts and other groups singing Christmas carols, so playing piano or an instrument would be nice. Sing popular songs too -- Oh Susanna, Frere Jacques, whatever.
Board games are good. Keep it simple and shorter games -- connect 4, scrabble, sorry, trouble, chess, checkers, yahtzee. Nothing too complicated. Card games can be tricky. Kids can help with rules, moving pieces, etc. (Remind them not to be too competitive for things like misspelling in scrabble or wrong moves.)
Simple crafts like beading little bracelets (obviously don't use teeny beads) on elastic. Or drawing on craft paper -- seasonal art to brighten up their rooms or halls.
The residents, even those that can't really interact, like having kids around. They like seeing them do things, hearing their voices. They are the most uncritical audience your little musicians, singers, actors will ever have.
If possible, it would be great to make this a periodic event, not just a holiday visit.
Really irritated about tonight's youth group...
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
That's exactly what I was thinking! :001_huh:
Sooo irritating when groups have these activities that are clearly smoothing the path to other behaviors. Ds got a pingpong ball in cup game for his birthday, obviously getting ready for dorm room games of beer pong. woohoo. :lol: :glare: