Farrar and Katilac, thank you for your responses. Excellent information and ideas. I think I will split it up into two courses (one for this year, and one for next). I was going to do World Literature next year, but I can do it through plays as well as books. She has already read Anna Karenina (sp?)--she's an avid reader and chose it on her own. I think I'm going to let her pick out the plays (with guidance) she analyzes. We already have plans to go see A Raisin in the Sun at a local college this Fall, so maybe we can just keep that as one we watch instead of read or analyze. The list will be pruned. I guess it's a matter of sitting with her and deciding which plays to focus on for each year. Thank you all. You have helped more than you could possibly know!

Thank you, LoriD! You've made me feel better about what I'm doing. I was going for both the Literature take and the theatrical take on these, but didn't think to split it into two separate courses while using the same resources. I know what I have is too much. It's so hard to reduce. LOL She read 21 books last year for Literature, but only wrote papers and fully analyzed 10 of them, and she's cast in Hamlet this summer, so she's getting exposure to that one right now, and I was thinking of doing Rosencrantz and Goldenstern are Dead in conjunction with it. LOL She is a theatre person, and her goal is to become a theater manager. I appreciate all your feedback. It has moved my mind in a different direction! Thanks!

I'm trying to put together a "Plays as Literature" course for my rising 11th grade daughter. I hoped there would be someone on here that has already went down this road, but my searches have yielded nothing. Maybe I'm using the wrong search criteria? Anyway, if this has been talked about before, if you could lead me to the thread(s), I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, if anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate that as well. So far, I've looked at MIT's open course ware for a drama as literature class. I've purchased the book used in the course, which has some of the plays I was already thinking of using plus more. Here is a list of the plays I'm looking at. Note that I won't have her do all the plays listed (I don't think--I may have her read them all, but only analyze/do projects for a selected amount -- like 10 or so). Hamlet Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf Oedipus Rex Look Back in Anger A Raisin in the Sun Hedda Gabler The Homecoming Machinal Tartuffe This is Our Youth Top Dog/Underdog Candida The School for Scandal Life with Father Our Town She Stoops to Conquer The Women The Humans Everyman Dutchman and the Slave Death of a Salesman A Streetcar Named Desire Faust (or Doctor Faust -- Can't decide which one) The Importance of Being Earnest Cat on a Hot Tin Roof The Glass Menagerie Twelth Night Far Away Antigone An Oak Tree Medea Waiting for Godot The Birthday Party Othello The Tempest Macbeth There are a few more Shakespeare that I want her to read, but this list is becoming NEVER ENDING! I'm looking for any insight into this list. What do you think I could do without, what do you think is missing? As for the projects I expect her to do, she will be analyzing but also creating sketches of scenes and costumes as well as in some cases, rewriting to show how she would do the play in a modern setting or for a modern play, in a historical setting. Dioramas will also happen as well as notes as to things she would do if she were directing the play (ie: what theme(s) would she want to shed focus to, etc). Anyway, any and all help, even if it's just a link to a thread already in existence would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Angie

Lori, thanks! Those lower level books are one of the numerous reasons we stopped doing cc. 😉 I am considering this.

Thank you, Mom0012! I appreciate your explanation and examples of your kids' situations. This helps a lot.

I've been searching not only on this board, but on the internet at large, for an answer to my specific question. Maybe I'm searching with the wrong words, so if this has been discussed, a link to the thread would be appreciated. We no longer do Classical Conversations, but my daughter did the Challenge 1 class for her 9th grade year. According to CC, we should give one credit for American Literature and one credit for Composition, but everywhere else I look, it's 1 credit for the two combined. I'm not sure if they recommend doing it differently due to the course load (My daughter read all the books, participated in discussions, and wrote every paper required). She read a total of 18 novels as well as numerous short stories and poems and wrote twelve essays (Essays included multiple steps -- used Lost Tools of Writing). As far as the amount of time it took for her to complete all of this work, it was a lot of time, and when I look at it that way, I do see it as 1 credit each (2 total credits), but I don't want her transcripts to look padded or inflated. Has anyone had to deal with this? What would your recommendation be? Thanks! Angie

This happened to my undergraduate school. They issued new degrees to everyone, so I use the new name.

My three kids took the Stanford 10, and I just received the results. My oldest two scored exactly how I expected them to score. I wish my second child did better in some areas, but overall, he did well. My third child, however failed everything. Literally, everything. It was all below average. I just don't understand. I know how he's doing at home. He does well with Math at home (usually helps his older brother do his 5th grade math), and he can parse a sentence quickly and accurately. I expected Math and Language Arts to be his strong subjects. Nope. Nothing was strong. Everything was just horrible. I really have no idea what to do or where to go from here. The idea to send him to P.S. is circulating through my mind, but my heart aches at the idea. It aches from his scores too. I'm in tears over here. :( Any advice or encouragement is greatly appreciated!

For my soon-to-be 8th grader we plan to continue with Classical Conversations. She's finished up Challenge A and had a wonderful year. We're looking forward to Challenge B! Math: We haven't decided where to go with this yet (see my post above). It'll either be the second half of AoPS Intro to Algebra (Algebra 2), AoPS Number Theory and County and Probability, or AoPS Geometry. This is a tough decision. :( Science: History of Science. Researching different scientists each week. She'll do a science fair project, and then move into studying the science of our origins and end with some Chemistry. History: First half of the year is all about current events. The second half of the year they do a mock trial, which sounds like a lot of fun. Latin: Henle's First Year Latin. They'll complete 2/3 of the book. This is both for language and Grammar. Lost Tools of Writing. She'll use the following books: Phantom Toolbooth, Little Britches, Where the Red Fern Grows, and The Hiding Place. For the second semester the class focuses on short stories and creative writing. They'll write their own short stories. Logic: Introductory Logic and Intermediate Logic She's in another co-op, but it's more about fine arts. I'm not sure which classes she'll take there next year as they're still getting the schedule ready, but she'll definitely be doing their acting class, possibly a creative writing class, and an art class.

My daughter and I have been struggling with what to do next year (8th grade) for math. She's finishing up the first half of AoPS Introduction to Algebra. We've been discussing whether or not to do Counting and Probablility and Number Theory, do the second half of Intro to Algebra, or do their Geometry book. I worry that if we take a complete year off from Algebra, she'll forget everything when we go back. Can you share how you came to your decision? I'm not sure of the best way to approach these courses...

I've tried to read all of this, but there is a lot. I know I've missed a lot, but I wanted to post because one thing kept jumping out at me. It's an issue I've spoken to many people about. I believe that we live in a time where knowledge is prized among our finest possessions. People like to know things and make sense of things. We have a world view, whether we acknowledge it or not, in which we try to fit everything into. We all see the world through a different "lens" (for lack of better word). When we read something, like the Bible, we try to fit whatever it is we read into our view of the world, and we classify things to fit this world view. When it comes to the Bible, so many people try to logically fit everything into categories. Is it metaphorical, literal, allegorical...etc. By trying to be intelligent on a subject, we dice it to bits, trying so hard to logically understand all the confusing or "weird" parts. I know how this is. I do it all the time. It's a struggle to not categorize things per what makes logical sense in our world with my world view. Being a Christian, on the other hand, is all about faith. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith. Faith is believing without having to know or understand the facts and little, itty-bitty details. There are times when I read the Bible that I want more and more detail, but there are many times when I just have to go on my faith. I do believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God. I can't just pick and choose what I believe. It's either all the Word of God, or none of it is (That's my logical side coming out, as it normally does). The interesting thing is that when I tried to logically figure out things that didn't make sense to me, I got more and more frustrated, and more and more confused. It's when I would take a break and read those passages without the lens of what I know, logically, from our world, where everything would start to make sense. Faith. If your faith is based on what you can logically prove or come to a knowledge of, well that's not faith at all, it's trying to fit the Bible into a pre-set mold that fits my ideals or vision of the truth. There are many things in the Bible that I wonder about. One of them being the wars. When the Israelites were told to leave no men alive. To kill them all. It is disturbing to read with the logic of this world, but when looking at why, and for the life of me I cannot remember all the specifics of what I've learned, there was a reason for this. I believe 100% that the Jews are God's chosen people. There is a reason for everything God allowed to happen. I have to just go on this in faith. Faith. I do believe that God is a loving and caring God, and that he loves all people, but he also is a just God. That death that befell the enemies of the Israelites is the same death that we all deserve. All of us. It is because of Jesus' death and resurrection that we are granted grace, and this through our faith in Jesus Christ. One thing I try to do is not talk about the Bible as "stories". I think this is one of my biggest pet peeves. When we tell a child a Bible "story", it has the same sound as a fairy tale, and I think that's how a lot of kids take them, and then they grow up to question what they've been told, because all they ever heard in Sunday School was Bible "stories". I teach the Bible as history in my house, and we go deeper into it earlier than most churches do. Our kids do not need these things sugar-coated. They're getting far worse from the news in our world today. Everything that is going on today in the news is in the Bible. There's nothing new that they haven't encountered, or will encounter, and why not delve into it while they are under your tutelage? I'd rather go over these "weird" things in the Bible with my children than have them learn about it all from our society. I hope I don't come off rude in any way. This is a subject near and dear to my heart. Like me, all of my children try to fit everything into their logical-thinking minds, so telling Bible "stories" will only leave them confused and suspicious of what is going on. As for Noah's Ark being used as a kid's theme. I get where people are coming from. I used to teach the pre-school aged kids at my church, and the curriculum is based off Noah's Ark. Oh man. I think they moved me because I didn't tell the fun-filled utopia of the floating zoo. I didn't stick to the script. LOL I get you all on that. What happened with Noah is an amazing part of history, and it parallels with other things in the Bible, but my family does not turn it into a fairy tale story. Sorry, I should jump off my soap box. I don't mean to ruffle feathers or anything. These are just things that I've been wrestling with in my life, and I kept thinking these thoughts as I read so many posts on this thread. God bless! Angie

Others have expressed exactly how I feel about MCTLA. We have used the first three levels and love it. I do not do the writing assignments though. We read through the writing portion of the curriculum, but we need more for writing, as not all of my kids are natural writers. For me, the most important aspect of the curriculum is the whole-to-parts approach. I graduated high school, tested (via an essay I wrote) into an honors English/Writing program in my college, and functioned in life without understanding grammar at all. I'm serious. I couldn't tell you what a participial phrase was until I started using MCT with my kids. It turns out I'm a whole-to-parts learner. I figured that out while getting my Master's Degree. It wasn't until the capstone course that everything finally made sense. LOL Anyway, we tried FLL, Voyages in English, LLATL, and Abeka LA before finding MCTLA, and we have never looked back. When I purchased the Island level for my oldest, my second child was a year behind the suggested grade level for the Island level, but he saw me doing MCTLA with my oldest, and he wanted to do it too. I didn't think he'd do well, but I told him he could try it out and see how it went. He excelled at MCTLA, and is becoming quite the grammar snob. I couldn't be prouder. We love the vocabulary, grammar (practice book included--we love the 4-level analysis), and poetry books, but only read through the writing portion and discuss the ideas. Actually, the discussion of the material is where the strength of the program lies. At one point I had my oldest doing the books on her own, and she was not doing as well as her brother (who was doing the same level), so I started making her do it with us. The discussion is the best part. For anyone who fears the ML level, let me tell you, I fear it too. I actually decided not to use MCTLA this year because we'd be moving into the ML level, and I wasn't sure if my middle child was ready as I heard there's a huge jump from the Voyage level to Magic Lens 1. Well, MCTLA has come out with a new level that fits in the gap. I can't remember the name of it, and they haven't yet released all of the books for the level, but it's what we'll be doing this year. I'm so glad this is available because we weren't sure what we were going to do if we didn't do MCTLA. I agree that this method isn't for everyone, but for us, it is a huge hit. Angie

We have used all of 3 as a stand-alone and half of 4. I am letting my oldest son go at a slower pace because of the production schedule. He should be starting 5A in the fall. Right now I'm just glad I let him slow down and go slower. He's at the end of 4B. I hope that he'll be able to do 4C, 4D, 5A, and 5B this next school year. My youngest will start 3 this year, and I plan on him using BA as a stand-alone curriculum. We're both excited. Angie

I signed up for it yesterday too...I started to fool around with it, but haven't gotten far yet. I have high hopes, though. ;) Angie

We're finishing up the Voyage level right now. I agree with Clear Creek. I think that MCT saying "to batten down the hatches" is a gerund phrase is an error in the book. My kids agree that it's an infinitive phrase.

We are close to being finalized here. I enrolled DD12 in Classical Conversations Challenge A. Below is what she'll be doing. The information in bold is stuff that is not part of CC Challenge A, but I'm adding or changing. ;) Grammar -- Henle's First Year Latin; My DD will continue with MCT, moving onto Magic Lens 1. She won't do the writing from MCT, just the grammar along with the practice sentences. Exposition/Composition -- Lost Tools of Writing and ten literature books Debate -- Geography (Mapping the world); I purchased Mapping the World with Art to help with this. I'm also going to use living books (Material World, maybe, and some others I've found that look interesting) for cultural geography. Research -- Biology and Natural Science; I own BJU's Life Science. I'm going to have my DD read through this as we go along with doing the research and memorizing body systems. I'm also going to have my DD research a disease for each body system that she memorizes. Rhetoric -- (Clear Resoning/Apologetics) Fallacy Detective and It Couldn't Just Happen Logic -- (Math) I will not use Saxon, as CC recommends. We'll use AoPS Intro to Algebra (First half of the book) in conjunction with Chuckles the Rocket Dog, and completing Crocodiles and Coconuts if needed. My DD is also going to use Getting Started with Spanish and is joining a children's choir for music. She is part of Mpact at our church, and will continue with that as well. I hope that she'll join our Teen Bible Quiz group at church, but we're still debating that. ;) Edited to add that we are interested in TeenPact, but we're not sure if we can do it with CC and her Choir schedule, so we're going to have her do the homework for TeenPact at the very least so that she can get an idea of what it's about and the work load in case she's interested in the future. Angie

Thank you, ladies. I didn't realize that private schools don't have to follow the IL Board of Ed's High School graduation requirements. I had been looking ahead at the colleges my daughter is interested in, and we have been on track with them with four years of math, not three, in high school. I thought the three years was strange. All the colleges that we've looked into so far require four years of math. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I feel so much better, and know to just keep on working toward the colleges we are interested in. ;) Thanks! Angie

Hi, everyone. My oldest is only finishing 6th grade, but I've been looking ahead to make sure we're on the right track. Unfortunately, I've found some interesting information in Illinois' Math requirements for graduation, and I hope that someone on the High school board can help me figure this out. The IL Math requirement for High School graduation is:  3 years of mathematics, one of which must be Algebra 1 and one of which must include geometry content; (This is from a document from the IL board of education dated February of 2015...emphasis mine). So, this disturbed me, but when I read on, the document says this: ...the State Board of Education has heard concerns from parents and school officials about whether accelerated coursework completed by students in middle or junior high school – particularly in the area of mathematics...Section 27-22.10 to the School Code addresses these concerns by allowing school boards of high school or unit districts the option of adopting a policy to accept such courses under certain conditions specified in the law... A student wishing to take the course must be enrolled in seventh or eighth grade. Either the student must take the course at the high school he or she would attend, and the elementary student’s enrollment must not prevent a student enrolled in the high school from being able to take the course; or the student must take the course at the school the student attends provided that the course is taught by a high school teacher licensed under Article 21B of the School Code, as applicable, who teaches in a high school of the district that the student will attend and no high school students are enrolled in the course. The high school must grant academic credit, satisfying the state-imposed graduation requirements for that particular course, to an elementary student who successfully completes the course. The student’s grade in the course must be included in his or her grade-point average in accordance with the board’s policy for making that calculation. There's a lot more written, but those are the bulleted points. Now, in IL Home Schools are considered private schools, so I am the High School teacher as well as our school being a High School, I guess, or you can look at it as I'm a High School teacher teaching a child in the middle school where no high school students attend. Ugh. Now, how would I do this for transcripts? I'd have to put my DD's 7th grade (Algebra 1) and 8th grade (Geometry) both in her High School transcripts? I'm just a little confused. I know she's okay, I just want to make sure I understand it all before we get to 9th grade. All wisdom and help is appreciated. Thanks! Angie

We're doing Science in the Beginning as well.

Okay, I feel like an idiot. I thought C&C was the second half of Pre-Algebra and the first half of Algebra. My daughter is in the second Chapter of C&C. She loves it, but she thinks she's still doing pre-A. LOL Oops. We plan to continue on with Chuckles, but we are planning on doing Chuckles alongside AoPS Algebra. Why are there so many good options out there? Ugh! I guess we'll see how it all works out. I'm glad I read through this. I don't have to worry about her being behind. I wanted my DD to be finished with the entire C&C book by the beginning of August. There's no rush now, I guess. LOL Oh, we love the trick questions. We have so much fun on them. ;) Angie

Unless you wanted to do Foundations in a community, you shouldn't have to pay for Foundations if all you want to do is enroll your Essentials aged child in Essentials. Personally, Foundations can be done at home very easily without a CC community. From what it sounds, you only have one child at the Essentials age. While s/he is in class, there should be some sort of art class for the younger siblings of the Essentials students. You do not have to do Foundations if you are enrolled in Essentials. Now, Essentials spots are given to students in Foundations first, so you may not get into a class, but you don't have to do both. I also don't want to push you to do Essentials. If it's hard to get to work, then don't do it. I don't. I do Foundations at home, and I love a different LA curriculum that we do at home. We use Michael Clay Thompson's LA. I'm not sure if you looked at it. It's a bit expensive, but costs less than the Essentials class. ;) Other ideas: Jr. Analytical Grammar, Shurley English, and KISS Grammar (this is free and online). I've been where you are, trying to figure out the best thing to do. It's hard because there are too many options out there! Read reviews, pray, and follow your gut. If the only thing in my way is the cost of something, then I try to figure out a way to get the same results with something similar but cheaper... Good luck.

I do CC Foundations memory work at home. I have the Foundations Guide along with the the Timeline Cards. I did get a subscription to Classical Conversations Connected for a brief time in order to download songs from there. It's $60 a month for non-members, and honestly, not exactly worth it. You can find a lot of songs on Youtube. I would suggest purchasing the CD that they sell that has the timeline and president songs on it. They don't have songs for all the memory work though. For Essentials, you can't purchase the Essentials Guide from CC unless you are enrolled in an Essentials class. You can look for a used one somewhere, but they are hard to find, and may not come with everything you need (A friend of mine bought one used through Ebay and it was missing all the GEAR pages, which are needed). If you aren't set on using the Essentials Guide, look into Analytical Grammar or Jr. Analytical Grammar. I use MCT's LA program and refuse to switch to something else because why fix something that isn't broken? But a lot of people that I see that do CC at home use Analytical Grammar or Jr. Analytical Grammar. Also for the Essentials-aged children, use IEW. If you're not familiar with IEW, you may need to view the DVDs at the very least. If you don't want to buy them, look in your library or search for a used set. You could actually just do the Student Writing Intensive instead of the Ancient History book, which is what CC will be doing for Cycle 1 Essential Students this coming Fall. For your older kids, who would be in the Challenge classes if they were in CC, you can do most of the Challenge work at home. What you will be missing is the group dynamic and peer discussion. I actually enrolled my daughter in Challenge A this year because of the peer discussion aspect of the class. Before I enrolled her though, I researched the Challenge A class and put together a syllabus for all the strands in the Challenge A class. There is enough information out there on the Web to piece the program together yourself. I haven't looked at all the Challenge classes in-depth, but I found a lot of information on all the Challenge levels. Look on Pinterest, Quizlet, google the level you're interested in to find blogs from people who have done the level already. Read through the information on ClassicalConversations.com for the level you're interested in. Look through the books they sell. You can't get a guide for the Challenge levels unless you are enrolled in a class. You can try to find an old Guide on ebay or a used curriculum site, but I've never seen one for sale. They make new Challenge Guides each year. Also for Challenge, figure out what the different curriculum choices are meant to teach, and find something else that may fit better. For instance, in Challenge A the kids learn to map the world by memory. The only book they use is an atlas. The actual break-down and everything else is in the Challenge A guide. Well, there are quite a few curricula out there that teach this: Mapping the World by Heart, Mapping the World with Art, and Draw Your World by Winter Promise are a few. And in case you aren't sure of the ages that CC goes by, here they are: Foundations - Ages 4-11; Essentials - Grade 4 and up; Challenge A - Age 12 and up; Challenge B - Age 13 and up; Challenge I - Age 14 and up; After that I'm not sure if it matters for the other Challenge classes (II, III, and IV), as not all classes are offered every year, and they can be taken out of order. There is a Facebook group for people doing CC on their own at home. Here it is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/441955959280425/ It's not extremely active, but there is some good information there, and people do answer questions. Best of luck to you! Angie

I just got the Decisive Battles of the Ancient World. I wanted to teach history via battles next year, and we'll be doing Ancients too, so it worked out perfectly. Thanks for letting us know about this. Now I have to go and see if there are more that I want right now. Does anyone know how long the sale is going to last? Angie

I was already planning for my DD to start Alcumus this summer, so I think we'll go this route with introducing square roots and the Pythagorean Theorem. At least then I won't worry so much before she start AoPS Algebra. Thank you for this recommendation.

I forgot about the AoPS videos and Alcumus. I think we'll do that in order to make sure we cover our bases before starting AoPS Algebra. We've decided to do AoPS as our main and us Chuckles the Rocket Dog on the side because she loves the Arbor books so much. Angie