The way I see a balance between child-guidance and non-traditional school would be summed up in "Wisdom's Way of Learning". Even though Marilyn does not consider her family as "unschoolers"...it is perhaps her assumption that unschoolers are not pro-actively involved in their child's learning experiences. However, labels aside, Marilyn did break away from the traditional school scene by not doing anything "school-ish" for about a year. During that year, she prayed and waited for an understanding of what true learning is (while actively studying about how learning happens) Then, slowly, she started short sessions of "table-time" (seat work focused on the tools of learning/3-R's), followed by "productive free-time" which the child had to be actively working in an area of interest of their choice. For her younger son, building with scrap wood, curing small mammal hides and digging holes were his interest. Her older daughter was the "ideal" (my word) child, so to speak. She poured over books about birds, observed them and even wrote and illustrated little books about what she had learned. Hers was the notebook method. The son also, eventually kept notebooks and documented his self-learning. It took years and years of building and becoming their own expression of their style and way of life. Both are now adults and are entrepeneurs...self-employed through their own productivity. BTW, the daughter did end up attending college if you were wondering. It can be done, but it requires trust that it will happen. It is more spiritual than anything else. It is not really a method as much as faith exercised. My two favorite booklets written by Marilyn are titled: "Developing Vision For Your Family" and "Develop A Lifestyle Routine". Many say they are "weird". I would expect that. My family is presently in a season of unschooling, if you will. My older one has a little "table-time" for math and languag, then she reads whatever she has chosen to read. I do read aloud ALOT. They are all living books in the CM tradition, and I/we read alot of them. We did start out with a productive free-time, though we seem to have drifted away from the purposefulness of it in the last few months...thanks for the reminder! They watch very, very little t.v. We have no channels, cable or what not. That alone has directed them as much as anything. Their life has little twaddle in it. I think every family needs a time of solitude, a retreat from society, a break-away from the stampeding herd...so they can stop and rethink where they're running and why. Marilyn would say it is to discover and develop one's life-purpose Geo

Our's is "L'Abri School". Since the provision for homeschooling in NC is under the "non-public education" statute", all homeschools are required to name their "schools". About the time we moved here, I was really into reading about Francis Schaeffer and his family and their ministry - "L'Abri", which is french for "The Shelter". It seemed too appropriate to pass up. Oh yeah, once established, the school cannot change it's name. Too bad for one short-sighted mom here in town. She had to issue her children high school diplomas from "Fry Elementary". Oh, the horror. :001_huh: Geo

Starting Points by David Quine. http://www.cornerstonecurriculum.com/Curriculum/SP/sp.htm discusses the curriculum http://www.cornerstonecurriculum.com/pdfs/samples/Starting_Points_sample.pdf sample pages of an earlier edition I have used this and it is outstanding. Geo

You may already know this, but check www.homeschoolclassifieds.com for non-consummable parts of curriculum, even consummable sometimes. Amazon.com is always a place to check because of deep discounts and even used books. For reading, always try (new & used) www.addall.com before purchasing retail (it searches thousands of dealers). www.half.com is worth a try as well, as is www.vegsource.com/homeschool I almost never purchase new at full retail. On the average, I pay only 50% - 75% of the cost, new. Many times even better than that. Also, if there is a yahoogroup that supports the use of a certain curriculum you can usually find those materials, used, for sale on that board. Some have a separate group for that purpose alone. IEW, RS, are good examples. best wishes, Geo

I believe working in blocks helps to develop deeper thinking habits. The child has an opportunity to become intimate with the subject and promote saturation. It has been proposed that even mathematics can be learned better when a child spends only 2-3 days a week on math, but for longer periods of time on those days. I believe it was David Quine, author of Mathematics Made Meaningful who said that. At this point, I'd consider any approach opposite of what is being used in the public school setting. :o) Go for it, Geo

Reading Reflex. Read the first portion of the book, don't be tempted to skip it, you will get an education on what reading is...and is not (rarely so simply explained). Very simple, straight forward, multi-sensory activities. It works. Geo

[i am thinking of doing something radical like taking the entire week off from school and just getting the house in order, using it to train the kids, develop (or at least start) good habits, decluttering, etc.] Radical? Not radical...I'd say balanced. Your home has a powerful atmosphere, it needs to be attended to. Try not to see it as a negative activity (by focusing on the failure), try to set an example for the attitude you want to impart...like embarking on some great new project. Keep pointing to the goal: "This is going to feel so great when we're done, you'll see!". Geo

Take up to 50,000 IU per day. It's best to take in small amounts throughout the day, by that I mean upon awakening until retiring. You will really notice the difference. Eating healthy is great, but once your body is out of whack fighting these things you'll benefit from the extra antioxidants. Geo

[then she tells me that her cousin, a teacher, says that spelling well isn't necessarily a sign of intelligence! That was such a slap in the face.] Don't take too personally the discussion on the importance of spelling. It should remain just that...about spelling. It's not about your daughter. I am an excellent speller myself but do not believe it is a sign of intelligence, but skill...though I do like to think of myself as smart. I know a brilliant district attorney (who became so after becoming an electrical engineer) who couldn't spell her way out of a paper bag! I believe it is about one or two things: #1). good visual memory and/or #2). good working knowledge of phonological/spelling rules This should not come between friends, forgive any offenses and move on. Avoid the topic in the future, for friendship's sake. Geo

Diane, Don't forget the beta-carotene...it is particularly powerful for skin eruptions like cold sores. Geo

Poor thing. Your immune system might be a little taxed right now, for whatever reason. L-Lysine didn't seem to help me, though I have taken it anyway. I have found a couple tricks that have really shortened their duration. I am not huge on over the counter remedies...but "Abreva" is definitely worth the $ for keeping a cycle under control but must be used as early as posssible for best results. It can greatly the reduce duration. In addition to any multi-vitamin you may already be taking...try this: LOTS of B-complex (100mg total daily/smaller amounts frequently or time-released), Beta Carotene (50,000 - 75,000 IU taken throughout the day), Vitamin C (3,000 mg daily) REALLY help your body detoxify and fight to suppress the cycle. I always use vitamin E (perl cap or oil) applied topically during the drying stage. There is a homeopathic called Herplex I have on hand for my next bout. I haven't tried it yet but have read rave reviews. FWIW, Geo

Maria, You are right of course, it's hard as a mom to watch their child lag behind others. I think that's why I looked for a thread on the subject; I was looking for comfort and solace in our decision to delay academics. I am also aware that we are better able to comfort others in areas where we have needed comforting ourselves. In a small way, I am grateful that my belief in DA is being tested. I don't like seeing the "herd mentality" lurking in me. Grrr. So this is an opportunity to be free-er than I have had to be in the past. My hope is that I will see the truth be manifest in this situation. Then I think: or not. I guess there is always fear of the unknown, fear that everything may not work out so perfectly. I guess I am just choosing today as my focus...that tomorrow will take care of itself. Geo

Our sixth child (the youngest) is the first one to delay beyond 6 years. I had one other child, #2, a boy) who moved at a little slower pace than the others. He is actually the only "intellectual" of the bunch. He (now 26yo) is an incredibly avid reader who reads meaty books for pleasure, albeit, dictionary in hand. Dostoyevsky was his favorite at 14. He did not read until 8yo. Our youngest, 7yods, is really not ready AT ALL. I have tried working with him gently in reading and math and I was beginning to suspect LD's. He has very poor visual memory for symbols-both letters and numbers, but numbers are worse. We just had to work WAY too hard for results. However, he LOVES to build circuits with his father,using "Snap-Circuits" . He has a large, advanced vocabulary, but is considerably emotionally immature in contrast. I am at present, fully embracing a delayed approach with him. This is not defeat. Rather, it is a freeing alternative to frustration, labels and failure...not to mention emotional trauma and stress for both of us. He hasn't even wanted me to read aloud to him until recent months. Now, he LOVES it. At present, I read Henri Fabre's "The Story Book of Science", MOH l, "Hurlbut's Story of the Bible (1904 version), Mrs. Gatty's "Parables From Nature", "The Melendy Family" series by Enright. and many more wonderful, living books. Most of these books were targeted at his 9yo sister- but he has now voluntarily joined us, with his full attention, while working on Legos or K'Nex (of course!). His retention is excellent. I do plan to continue to implement some engaging activities from "Mathematics Their Way." Activities like free exploration, building patterns, sorting and classifying, etc. These are just interesting play to him and he enjoys the benefits of the one-on-one attention that he gets from me. He does know most letter sounds (it seems to come and go) from my earlier "school-ish" attempts. I hope to encourage his retention of those by letting him play with foam letters on the wall during his shower time, but no pressure. If he forgets, heck, we'll just learn them again! I suspect we will probably wait until at least 8yo, but may very well need to extend it to 9yo or beyond. I've always been supportive of DA, I've just never seen the need for such strict application with my other children. My conscience warns me not to "pick the bud before it blooms" with this one. Geo

I am surprised by some of the posts in the thread. It may be that some of the persons do not really understand the true nature of DA. First, delayed academics is not about refusing to let your child learn anything! It's about rejecting an an arbitrary age for the introduction of any particular, formal learning experience. The premise is that is better to allow a child to ready at his own emotional, physical, spiritual pace. I have read in Dr. Moore's books that if a child initiates the learning, then by all means indulge him! What Dr. Moore is warning against is hours and hours of formal instruction that is adult initiated, motivated and sustained. He believes that children are to be allowed to grow in balanced activities of called "Head, Heart and Hands". #1) Work-which means learning real life responsibilities like pet care, age appropriate chores and the like. #2) Service- with parents as models: learning to help others...visiting the elderly, community service, etc. #3) Mind- growing in interests and pursuits that develop the innate bent of the child, academics are to serve this purpose...not the other way around. Has anyone ever wondered why so many of our children have so many labels for learning disabilities? Children who struggle with formal schooling have always been with us, before labeling they were just dismissed as "dumb". We know better now, but we still level the problem as with the child. Perhaps it is our practice of early education. I read very recently that many, many children who are diagnosed with dyscalculia (math dyslexia) can be tested several years later and show no signs of it. I am not saying all children with LD's are in this group, but what percentage are? I have a friend (now, 46yo)who couldn't learn to read as a child. Her school (and parents) gave her up as hopeless after 6th grade. She learned, unaided, at 14...mysterious, eh? Many, many children are ready for school at an earlier age...that doesn't mean ALL are. Public schools and homeschools alike need to acknowledge that fact. Oh yeah, and nowhere in the delayed academics philosophy are kids pressured to rush "catch up"...that would be the insecurity of the parents. Kids who start much later have more developed and mature mental processes and tend to naturally grow in leaps and bounds not inch by inch like their younger friends in Kindergarten/1st grade. Geo

You have described a "toxic soup" of sorts. Poor choices in friends, activities and attitudes are a litmus test in wisdom. You and your husband need a serious pow wow...NOW. Kids don't usually grow out of these things on their own. The decisions they face in the coming years can enormously impact their life. I would suggest a complete change of lifestyle for him. He needs very unified, confident parents that aren't afraid to make him angry. Angry or not, he will know you are right and that you care enough to fight for him. Ultimately, he will respect you for it. Don't use anger or intimidation to do this. Be calm, be cool, be deadly serious with all confidence.He needs to hear what great things you see him doing, what kind of amazing person you've always known he was born to be. Sorry, but Dad needs to re-prioritize. He absolutely MUST be the major influencer in his son's life, not this other family. Find fun and meaningful activities that he and his dad can share together. Is he able to go to work with his father? Do they share any interests together? This is not magic in and of itself, but time spent together gives opportunities to talk about life and deeper heart issues. For certain, you need to keep him busy and away from poor choices. You can't just take everything away...it must be replaced with something else...and not just any old thing. He needs a fresh start, now, while he is still under your guidance. If I sound heavy, I probably am. What can be more important than this...right now? All my best intentions, Geo P.S. Boys WILL be boys...but what kind of boys?

First off, I'd like to thank you for sharing. Second, it seems like most of you are on the same page. All the positive reviews (on/in the book) really set-up one's expectations. I mean, really, can it be compared to "The Pilgrim's Progress"? So far, I don't see it. Supposedly, it's biggest fans are from what is termed "The Emergent Church". I have a little bit of orientation with those perspectives via Rob Bell and his NOOMA videos. I'm a little old for membership with that group (50yo this Oct.). I'm all for new, fresh perspectives...but am uneasy with re-creating God (to say the least). I guess I must finish this book to say much more. I want an open mind...but not an empty one. Thnks, Geo

This is said to be a "must read". I am halway through it, but am trying not to peek ahead. Did it help you? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. Best intentions, Geo

bump

Either a new set of encyclopedias OR the internet. Unless you mean in addition to everything we already have. In that case, I would say: an airline/hotel pass to anywhere in the the world...unlimited. Well, you asked! best intentions, Geo

We burn through audio books. We have nearly exhausted our local library. Blackstone audio sells audio books used, but they have nothing used (for children) right now. I feel twitchy when anticipating the day when we don't have a new book to pop into the cassette or CD player in our car. Somebody please help! Thanks in advance, Geo

You didn't state the ages of your children, so it's a shot in the dark, so to speak. My first impulse is to answer: "The Sword In The Stone" by T.H. White. We're not talking disney here. It was funny, well-written and memorable. The author is also a co-author of Strunk & White's "Elements of Style". My older son independently read a two-book edition titled "The Once and Future King" (which includes The Sword in the Stone)". Anyway, my kids adored this book. best intentions, Geo

Uhhh, get a dog, or have your son do the dog's job and keep running them off. An air horn might work. It must be unpleasant for the duck or they won't be motivated to leave.:eek: Duck poopie in and around the pool should be motivation enough...for you. best intentions, Geo

Cutters makes a natural Eucalyptus/Lemon oil repellent. Were the ticks mostly on his head? My experience with ticks (here in the Smokies) is that they love to drop down from tree branches onto their victims. Sounds silly, but if you could try to keep him out from under trees and out of the bushes you might see a reduction on the occurance of the little hitch-hikers. Or try a little spritzing of his head with the Cutters. best intentions, Geo

Yesterday, I received news that the grown daughter (Camilla) of a friend had narrowly escaped death but the friend she was with had died.For sake of brevity, I will not go into great detail: They were walking on a country road, it was dark. They thought they were a safe distance from the road...walking single file for extra safety. As a truck passed it hit Camilla's elbow) she reeled checked her arm for damage and became aware her friend (Lisa) was being dragged under the truck. The driver did not see the young women, it was dark. Police could find no evidence that the truck had left the road...we will never know how/why it happened. They took Lisa off life support last night, her brain never showed any activity. If anyone reading this has had an experience of tragedy/loss, please read on. I subscribe to a blog "A Holy Experience" by Ann Voskamp (author of A Child's Geography) . I had fallen behind in reading the daily entries. Today, I was stunned by the topics this week. Since the most recent entries are at the top of the page, please scroll down to Monday and start there. I hope her meditations on loss can be a comfort to anyone else who might be suffering right now. http://aholyexperience.com/ make sure your volume is not on mute, soothing music accompanies this blog. best intentions, Geo

Greenleaf Press has a series of guides that walk you through history in a chronological fashion the way you proposed. http://www.greenleafpress.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=5499e11dd82d563810cf6b32ce63d30a At least this a starting place. Lot's of book titles, too. Best intentions, Geo