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Candid

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  1. Yeah it happens.

     

    One of my daughter's sports aquaintances just verbally committed to a selective school; she has a low GPA and LOW SAT scores (relatively, anyway). She would not have gotten into this school otherwise. The school is currently ranked 6th in the sport and they want to move up... The student is somewhere in the top 20 in the country in her events.

     

    However, in my experience, most athletes will not see this happen. Most students who think they are gonna get the big bonanza, lol, do not.

     

    IS she that good on a national level? If not then she might want to rethink.

     

     

    Georgia

     

    Georgia

     

    This is very true, but I'm not sure its a place to debate with someone. My son plays baseball, and I basically bite my tongue when I hear parents talk about their sons going on and being recruited. So far no one has surprised me except that somehow they think it a big deal that their son has signed up to play on a community college team. 

  2. Isn't the whole selling point of this curriculum that it can be used over and over as the child grows?  Even if the LG part is light on the religion, it just gets worse as the kid gets older.  I was looking at the whole thing, assuming that.  I don't know anyone who would buy it just to use it for the lower grades, secular or religious. 

     

    Yes, it is, but as the mom of a 17 and 14 year old, I can tell you that challenging your child with hard questions and comparing world views is what you do as they get older. I don't want to hold back on that. And that is exactly what Tapestry does. When they suggest in this week plan the older students should have a small debate on two fairly controversial statements that compare Christianity and Hinduism, the first thing they do is have the students turn to dictionaries and define terms. Exactly, in my view, what you want to do with students at that age. BUT not what you would do with a young child like yours. So I understand why you think this would be terrible later on, but it's not in my opinon. This is exactly the kind of discussion anyone who wants to be part of the great conversation must do. And as I said right off the bat to your first post, is it a surprise that Tapestry doesn't agree with HInduism?

     

    I think what Beth points out about the difference between a middle school and high school level curriculum is dead on. You can't compare such programs to programs for young children. What seems difficult to secularize now maybe exactly what is needed for older students. 

     

    As a matter of fact, why I left Sonlight after the Eastern Hemisphere program was because their questions lacked depth. I'll never forget reading the first reader of the year which had lots of interesting material: the boy feels caught between two gods, he has three life and death struggles with animals, and is chased by cannibals, but when I turned to Sonlight's questions they were asking questions like how did he make clothing? Argh! Sure it was easy to secularize, but it was just rote recall. No beginning logic stage requirement at all. 

     

     

     

    I don't know why you're making such a thing out of this.  A secular hser asked for opinions.  As a secular hser, I gave her mine.  You became very upset because, apparently, I was unaware that I'm not allowed to have an opinion.  Perhaps we should just leave it at that, because pissing contests about who overprepares the most aren't getting us anywhere.

     

    I don't think I'm making a big deal, but I am not willing to let misinformation stand. What I am doing is providing facts about the actual percentage of Christian content in a highly religious week in the plan. That's why I did the chart, because I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing what you claim Christians are doing, overlooking things casually. The chart was a device to show me and others the amount of Christian content. You said half the pages have it. I verified that was not so. If you disagree, I would be happy to compare a chart of yours to mine, apples to apples. 

     

    You are certainly allowed to have an opinion, but I see a difference between that statement and opinion. It was a factual statement that could be verified. I verified. 

  3. :001_rolleyes:  I take it you're involved with sales for ToG? 

     

    No, I don't. I've never made any money shilling for a company. I would find that unethical.

     

     

     
    The difference here is that your idea of what constitutes "Christian content" and a non-Christian, secular homeschooler's are likely very different.  Stuff like this:
    Quote
    "We hope to learn about these belief systems so that we can both understand their errors and and learn to effectively reach these people with the good news of Jesus Christ!"
     
     
    "When we learn how our HIndu or Buddhist neighbor understands the world and where his beliefs differ from Biblical teaching, we can begin to show him in words that he can understand the way that he can come into a right relationship with God through accepting the death of Jesus Christ on the cross for his sins and be saved."
     
    "What central errors do Buddhism and Hinduism share?"
     
    "As you have learned in worldview studies this week, Hinduism and Buddhism share a common central fault..."
     
    "Would you expect that human life more precious [sic] or less so in Indian society than in Western culture because of this widespread religious belief?" (referring to reincarnation)
     
    "How do you think Hinduism, as a worldview, compares to the biblical worldview?  Which one do you value more, and why? Try to be specific!"  (So basically telling kids, "Pick which religion is better," which isn't generally something a secular homeschooler would consider doing.)
     
    There's some kind of philosophy play that has some guy arguing with a Buddha caricature and has sources from buddhanet.net.  I'm not sure what that's supposed to be about, though it seems the other character is trying to show that Buddhism doesn't make sense.  Or something.  I'm not really getting it.
     
    The timeline for this section starts with "Creation: 4006 BC."
     
    "In the end, though, the religion, laws, and customs of the Egyptians have not profoundly impacted Western culture except through biblical stories."
     
    "To an unusual degree even by the standards of the ancient world, Hinduism is a worldview made up of loosely-connected beliefs, with many internal contradictions and inconsistencies between its different branches."
     
    (ETA: And almost every sentence came from a different page.  I didn't take them all from one paragraph or anything like that.  This was scattered over the Indus Valley stuff.)
     
    Yup, I counted all of that in my PDF that I posted. Still only came to five pages and 8 lines out of 59 pages. 
     

     

    I could go on, but honestly, I'm sick of reading through this stuff.

     
    And it's more subtle than that, too.  Even the questions and information that don't seem to be about religion at first glance often seem to encourage kids to think about the negative aspects of other worldviews, and compare those to the positive aspects of Christianity.  As I said before, that's not something Christians might notice, but secular homeschoolers do.  The antagonistic view of all non-Christians cultures saturates much of the curriculum.  Could it be secularized?  Like I said before, I'm sure it could, but it would drive me nuts trying to do so.

     

    I noted these instances however, I do think, as the mom of a junior and 8th grader, that I want my children to be challenged to think. That's one reason I switched to a more classical view of education for middle and high school. My kids read real challenging information from the great writers of all traditions, such as the Bhagavad Gita I mentioned in a previous post. I work hard to understand those works. In the case of the Gita I reread it on our second pass through Tapestry. It's the only work I've done that for. Have you read the Gita in preparation to teach your child about Hinduism?
     
    I also find it silly to think Christians won't notice some things. Sure some Christians might not, but so might some secular people. Everyone is different when it comes to pick up details. 
     

     

    And no, I don't have other posts endorsing other Christian curriculum.  My daughter is five, and I'm not sure why that would matter.  From what I've seen of Sonlight, I think that could be adaptable, but I'm only going by the catalog on that one.  

     

    So why exactly were you reading this thread? It's clear from statements up thread that you don't like Tapestry and that you were predisposed to not like it. So why read this thread? Yes, I know someone asked about secularizing, but, still, why would you have ever seen that?
     
    And if you desire a secular program why pick the year plan when you are most likely to encounter religious views for your sample?
     
    Further, for a child your dd's age, there are zero Christian books and zero Christian content for her in the India week. None. The heavy duty stuff does not come into play until a child reaches the logic stage. 
  4. I think you need to go through the information with her and then see the test to see what exactly it is that she is missing and where she is missing it. 

     

    In my experience open book tests are often given when the material has to be processed in some way and with chemistry that is possible. So while your dd may think the teacher is not giving her the information it maybe that she is being given everything, but she can't apply it. She is young to take chemistry and you don't say what level math she is in. This could mean she is unable to process the equations she is getting on the test. 

     

    BUT it maybe she is exactly right that she is missing information somewhere. 

     

    Either way you need to figure it out and then decide your course of action rather than throwing money at the problem. 

  5. Defensive, much?  I gave my opinion of one unit of one year.  As someone else said, the year I chose apparently has a great deal of religious content.  I never said it shouldn't be that way, because obviously it's a religious curriculum.  People are perfectly welcome to get their own free unit and make up their own minds.  I stand by my opinion, though.  From the one unit I browsed, ToG seems to take a more antagonistic view of other religions than the other Christian curricula I've seen.  If you're a Christian, that kind of language probably doesn't stand out to you the way it does to those of us who are non-Christian.

     

    No, but I am a Christian and I have a high commitment to the truth and in particular to making sure I don't misrepresent others and their work. 

     

    Let's take on a comparative week for reference to see if you are right. Since I want to make sure I pick a culture that TOG will come in conflict with, I won't use one of the chapters on the ancient Greeks, but instead I'll use a culture that still exists that they'll want to discuss in detail. This will mean I will have the most Christian field content possible. 

     

    My second caveat is that I own a print edition, first printing. I've chosen to do the week on India, which means there is one big difference, I'm pretty sure Tapestry no longer reads the Bhagavad Gita as the literature for the R level student so there will be a difference there. 

     

    I've attached a PDF with my breakdown of pages. 

     

    In total that is 50 pages with 5 pages and 8 additional lines of text that have Christian content. That's about 10% of the total. And 10% is no where near every other page which would be half. Further almost all that content is limited to discussions with older students. They use the World Book Encyclopedia to inform the teacher.

     

    I am curious if you have previous posts that endorse other Christian curriculum as being adaptable? Can you link one or two?

     

    I've used Sonlight which the person who asked mentioned. They are less thorough in a week than Tapestry is, but I suspect in terms of % of Christian content in a similar week they might actually be higher than Tapestry, of course that will be because they include many fewer pages than Tapestry does. 

    Tapestry India Week.pdf

  6. First female athletes are highly desired by any school who gives football scholarships. That's because generally male and female athletic scholarships must be equivalent which means at a school fielding a football team, they need a lot of offsets.

     

    It's also desirable to be in an odd field such as rowing because there will be few competitors. 

     

    In sports that are more competitive like softball or soccer for instance, she'll be chosen by her talent level not her SAT. The only thing she'll need in terms of SAT is to make it over the NCAA hurdle not the school's hurdle. It used to be Ivy league schools had gentleman's agreement and only recruited athletes as some minimum level of academic competition, but they've apparently let that go in the last few years. So here's the NCAA chart: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Quick_Reference_Sheet.pdf

     

    The Price of Admission claims that as much as 25% of the student body at competitive schools are admitted under these lower standards. 

  7. How is this class structured (live time, reading, assignments, labs)?

     

    I've been planning on using CPO Physics: A First Course next year w/ dd in 8th, as we had such a great year with it when my older dds did it. But we had three families and four kids getting together for labs that year.  Right now it's at most two families and two kids for next year; I'm worried that it may not happen (if we don't do collaborative labs, they don't happen here...)  So I'm wondering if I should have DO Physics on tap for "Plan B".

     

    How much math is in DO's course?  Dd will be finished with AoPS Algebra by then, but will not have had any Trig yet.  Is his Physics course suitable for an 8th grader?  It says it's based on Giancoli, which the local high school uses for Trig-based Honors Physics junior year... or is this a different version of Giancoli?

     

     

    I asked my ds about this so I'd get an accurate view for you.

     

    He says that there are lectures each week which total around 2 hours. He is told to use the workbook/text while doing the lecture which he does. 

     

    He then does 3 - 4 homework assignments. He thinks the average is 3 per week and about 30 - 45 minutes per assignments. At least one of them will be an experiment. The supplies for the experiments are minimal (under $30) and most things that ds has needed he has found himself. 

     

    As for math, ds thinks you should go by what Mr. Owens says. He is sure that Algebra is necessary is less sure about trig, but we did Singapore math so he does not see the same breakdown in math that we do since in Singapore it is all mixed together. 

     

    I think the good news is that Derek Owens Physics may not ever fill up. So you can wait until quite late to sign up if you must. BUT check with them on this fact. It's just what I have experienced. 

  8. I got a free unit just for the heck of it (even though we are completely secular- I'm a curriculum junkie) and I think it would be possible, but extremely annoying.  Every other page of the unit we got talks about how students should learn something about Buddhism and Hinduism so they can understand why they're wrong.  Or about how these religions oppose Christianity.  Or about how they're fighting Christianity for followers.  And so on.  The curriculum isn't just pro-Christianity, but it's anti-everything else.  I'd worry that even if I secularized it, their views would still come through somehow.

     

    This strikes me as hyperbole in the extreme. I've used every unit of Tapestry and this isn't even close to correct. 

     

    However, Mergath does pinpoint where Tapestry will appear to be Christian: when they are dealing with other religions. Is that really a surprise to anyone? 

     

    Added a bit later: The books used by Tapestry are majority secular including most of those on other religions, for instance, they use the Usborne book of world religions. Most references to Christianity will occur in the instructional materials for the parent making this a super easy program to switch out. 

     

    Further, some questions which may strike the secular user as Christian are actual those of ethics, and might easily be switched to generic ethical questions presuming a similar ethical set.

     

    However, most such questions do not occur in the materials directed at grammar aged children but at Dialectic and Rhetoric students who should be in the process of being challenged to process all such issues anyway. 

  9. First, I think I would tend to fill it out to a year long course and include military history as part of the course. I'm not sure studying the technology without the battles makes much sense. 

     

    On the more practical side, The Civil War podcast just aired an episode on soldiers and weapons and suggested a pair of books:

    http://civilwarpodcast.blogspot.com/2013/10/civil-war-podcast-episode-45.html They say they are older but still the measure of such books (note other episodes recommend books on other aspects of the Civil War). 

  10. Just as a contrast, my son went to a private school this year. If anything this is probably the priciest, elitist school in our city. They tested everybody in the gym which reminded me that my little private school tested all of us in the cafeteria. This is a contrast to the other private school he took it at last year, a classical Christian school, where they test in class rooms. 

  11. I think in your case you need to figure out what your goals are and then from this point forward straighten out the schedule to make it work for those goals and your son's reading speed. I'd have an easier time telling you what to do if I knew what books you are looking at and the pace. 

     

    It will be much harder to read excerpts in a program like Stogaugh's that is having him read the whole works vs. a program that is designed for specific excerpts, so I would lean towards cutting out whole works. If you feel he must know something of the other works then have him read synopses. 

     

    If you want to use another program like this next year, then you can plan to do more of the reading over the summer, but that's something you learn as you go so I wouldn't beat myself up over it this year. 

  12. DD will be going to a public univ, probably even CC first.  The CC doesn't require anything at all.  So I think I'm being overly paranoid.  For some reason, I can't get past my fear over this, that one day someone will say, "you can't have this dream job or dream opportunity" because I didn't get her an accredited diploma....

     

    ETA, the money I'm spending on Clonlara I keep thinking about the cool and valuable resources I could get with that money instead of a piece of paper.  If funds were unlimited I would do both, but that's not the reality.

     

    What I don't know is your state law nor what specific colleges youd dd would be interested in (say beyond cc). Check yourself on those and my guess is you'll be able to drop Clonlara. 

  13. I am not sure that the distinction is really used much by colleges in regards to home schooled students. Yes, some goofy schools put it on their admissions website, but most of the time they ignore it. 

     

    I've noted before that the good information on admissions says that schools use class rank not grade point average so the whole "mommy grades" thing is not that useful to them (my take is that mommy grades only hurt when they conflict with the SAT, then questions are raised, they would be in a standard school setting applicant, too). 

     

    GPA is used for some scholarships, but I've never seen anyone say that was only for accredited. 

  14. My husband has a GED as he dropped out of high school due to family circumstances. He went on to finish college, got accepted to a top law scool, and have a successful career as a military officer, recently retiring as an O4. There were no dire consequences and I don't think the fact that he has a GED has ever come up.

     

    OTOH, he will be the first to admit that the test is a bit of a joke. For a homeschooler who has completed high school level work, the requirement to earn a GED would be insulting. I concur that it should be avoided as it *can* be perceived negatively, and there is simply no need in this day and age. Glad to hear this college is being smart.

     

    I think what worked for your husband is that he had advanced degrees before joining the military.

     

    I found another page on enlisted enrollment http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/join-the-military-basic-eligibility.html

     

    They begin by saying:

     

     

     

    They need at least a high school degree (a GED may or may not suffice).  
     
    But in the bullet points they say:
     

     

     

     
    You must (with very few exceptions) have a high school diploma.

     

     I can remember when home schoolers had a very difficult time being enrolled into the military if they tried at the end of high school. Some of it was because they were perceived as not having that high school diploma. Folks worked very hard for a very long time to get this changed. 

  15. Did you read the articles?

     

    The story by NPR is about how far you can get with only a GED, having not finished high school coursework beyond the requirements. Yes, employers look at having only taken a test and not having finished coursework, as inferior to having finished coursework and gotten a college degree, particularly if you took some advanced classes in high school.

     

    But they are not mutually exclusive.

     

    The military story is about people who dropped out:

     

    "Each of the services strictly limit the number of high school dropouts (which includes GED holders) who can enlist each year."

     

    If you didn't drop out, then this article doesn't apply to you. If you dropped out of high school but went on to finish an associate's or bachelor's, then this article doesn't apply to you.

     

     

     

    Yes, I did read the whole story and I'm afraid my take was different than yours. The only person they found who was positive about the GED is cutting hair. They even have a high school aged young lady who doesn't want a GED. 

     

    And as for the distinction you are making between the GED and a diploma with the military. It doesn't exist. If you have a diploma, then you don't have the GED. 

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