Thanks, Lori, for the detailed reply. I am looking for suggestions on how to condense the material. We only do Set 1 and either Set 2 or 3, with Set 4 being optional. How do other families get through the book in 1 year? Or do they? That's what I'm really asking. My other children, except for one, took so long to get through the book because of our schedule (heavy focus on some competitive activities) and because of my disorganization. I had really hoped that, with only one at home now, I could "organize us" through it more quickly! Maybe that is going to take more thought on my part rather than expecting a question on a forum to solve it. :/ I am sensitive to how this dd learns--she has had a bit of math phobia, which I am learning to coach her through. Once I told her that learning to write algebraic expressions is like translating a foreign language sentence, she started flourishing with it. Language is her love, and she has quickly warmed to the fun of figuring out the language of algebra now. I'm not open, by the way, to the idea of changing texts. Jacobs is what I know, and as I said, she has warmed greatly to the subject so I'm confident Jacobs can work for her. So, again, how do other students get through Jacobs in 1 year?

I have read it several times during the raising of 6 children, 5 of whom have graduated from high school. ;) No, nothing graphic in the sexual department. Hawthorne stuck to the reticence of his age. Now, as for long, detailed descriptions--you will find many in this novel, but they are descriptions of the characters' thoughts and emotions, with, perhaps (my memory suffers here), descriptions of the scenery, clothing, physical appearance of people...

Do any of you have tips on getting through Jacobs Elementary Algebra in 1 year? Five of my six children struggled through it, mostly independently, and learned the material very well but never in a year's time. The method is great, but it is so time-intensive. Our sixth daughter is 9th grade now, and I had hoped to accomplish 4 lessons a week by having her do part of each lesson alone and part verbally with me. Chapter 1, 9 lessons, took us so long that I decided to skip the Summary and Review so we could get to Ch. 2. I'm thinking of only doing Summary/Review every third chapter or so for evaluation. Any other ideas?

Tess, I agree that sitting down with your son and working through problems should help you see where the hang-up is. As a long-time Jacobs user (I'm on my sixth and last student now), I will say that it seems to be a time-intensive text. What I am doing currently with my 9th-grade daughter is to work with her on days when I can--doing Sets 1 and part of 3 verbally as much as possible, in the hopes of completing 4 lessons a week. This cuts down on dawdling, plus I can see which problems she already understands and which need a little more explanation or nudging. My other students had to work mostly on their own, and each of them took more than a year to complete the text. Learning by doing the Set 2 or 3 problems just takes time and thought, and that's probably why it works.

:iagree: I was going to suggest TOPS, too, even though I'm relatively new to it. In 23 years of home-educating, it's the only science resource I've found that I wholeheartedly recommend (so far). I'm using it for 9th grade science to help my daughter understand all the things she didn't learn in previous years due to my ambivalence about anything scientific.

If you go to a good coffee shop to try out coffee, you might want to also try a shot of espresso. My favorite way to drink coffee--the crema on top is supremely satisfying. Even with a cheap espresso-maker at home, I love my espresso. A coffee-roaster near us offers "cuppings" once a month--it's like a wine-tasting for coffee aficionados. That's a delicious way to get a whole lotta caffeine in one morning! And try a variety of types of coffee.

Hear, hear for intrinsic motivation! :)

Here's what I tried with my oldest, years ago, and I've never recommended it to anyone since: Phonics for Reading and Spelling. It meets your criteria for: complete, rigorous phonics instruction; writing built in; no little tiles (just phonogram cards). It doesn't meet your criteria for workbook format or colorful pictures. So, perhaps what you want is something quite colorful and more fun (ETC?) that isn't as complete for beginning phonics, followed up by something more rigorous, like Phonics for Reading and Spelling. The reason we didn't like it was that the child was expected to learn all the phonograms, how to write, how to spell according to all the spelling rules, and how to construct sentences before being allowed to read. In other words, it's very complete. Ergo my recommendation for you. What did we use for the other 5 youngsters, and what do I normally recommend to homeschool parents? Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. Very light on phonics, but it's fun, inexpensive, and effective.

I can relate, Christy, to your feelings that you might have ruined your daughter by curriculum hopping! I've done some things different with all 5 of mine who have graduated, and I don't really like what we did, in toto, with any of them, though none of them have any huge problems because of it! So, now, I have another chance with our last, lonely daughter. With all my doubts and regrets, I know a good high-school-at-home education is possible--it just takes a lot of time, prayer, goal-setting, flexibility, creativity, and wisdom. A combination of academically-challenging subjects (college prep that reflects the parents' interests and priorities) and individualized study (based on the child's interests and goals) seems to be what I am aiming for with this last daughter. As Cricket said, there are families who have successfully used AO for high school. If it is working for you, go for it! But take the time to adjust it to your own family and your sons' needs.

I had planned to use it for high school. We used AO Yrs 1-6 for our 4th and 5th children; our 3rd daughter did Yrs 4-7, I believe. I was extremely busy when she got to Yr 7 (9th grade for her), however, and wasn't able to help her through it. Birth of Britain by Churchill, the core of the history plan for that year, was beyond her comprehension--she didn't have enough prior knowledge of British history to get all of his references, not enough links upon which to hang his comments and opinions. So, she did most of the reading I assigned, but with little discussion or narration or retention. Ambleside Online was written by anglophiles. Bless their hearts--I love reading their blogs, I've met some of them, and I'm confident their own children received a superb high school education. I have many of the books and will probably continue to use the booklists for reference. Our family, however, wasn't cut out for a high school plan with history as the centerpiece--too much discipline is required to do all the historical reading as well as high school math and science (and speech and debate, for us). One child left at home to finish 9th-12th grade, and, no, we won't be using AO. Living books, original documents, narration, nature study, and a lot of music and art, I hope, but no Churchill, unless she surprises me with a recessive gene of anglophilism.

Have you considered TOPS activites? I like them because, not only are they hands-on, but they are "task-oriented," with the child reading the instructions and doing the activity. The parent is just a resource person to help when called upon. Granted, I've never used them with someone as young as your son, but several units are designed for early elementary.

What's BA, please?

Homeschool leaders with an agenda? Who ever heard of such a thing.... :( I just found a heart-breaking story of Chandra Hawkins-Bernat, who grew up in one of the prominent homeschool families in the CHEF support group in Missouri. This is her view of what their goals were: This is from Part 1 of Chandra's entire story here.

DP is a narcissist and sociopath, according to those who've known him. http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/12/06/doug-phillips-portrait-of-a-religious-sociological-cult-leader/

I think the discussion here about how different ones of us interpret scripture differently brings us full-circle back to the topic of this thread--Vision Forum and patriarchal beliefs--because VF, DP, and their ilk take scripture and come up with some very specific applications of it, then teach that all truly godly christians will follow their applications. After years of reading and thinking about these teachings, I can only conclude that each of us believers needs to wrestle with God, alone or as a couple if possible, to find our own personal applications for our own lives. Our way of "fleshing out" the scriptures is going to be influenced by a number of factors: our background, our personality, our spouse, our view of inspiration, our circle of friends, etc. Primarily, though, it should be an outgrowth of our individual relationship with our heavenly Father through Christ. So, why should I be listening to some leader thousands of miles away about how to be the person God created me to be? This is one of my main beefs with patriarchy--not only that they have such extreme views, but that they insist that theirs is the only viable view. Come on, believers, God is bigger than that. So, I'm thankful these issues are coming to light to force christians to discuss them. Discussing the things we don't agree on should be a good thing--iron sharpening iron--so we can grow in our understanding and living out the truth.

Yes, this is along the lines of what I've been thinking for over a year about my own convenient silence at times. I tend to be silent in person, then burst out on FB with a link to some article that I know will provoke some of my acquaintances... ;) I'm trying to reverse the trend--in person discussions are surely more effective and honest. And less liable to be misunderstood.

I was asked for the FB thread. Here it is, and I believe you don't even have to have a FB account to view it. https://www.facebook.com/michael.farris.374?fref=ts

Because Farris says, "It's because of accumulation of stories like yours," to her, I am pretty sure she is one of the many homeschool graduates who are coming out with stories of how they were abused in various ways in their homes. I haven't read her name online, but apparently she has been in touch with Mike before and he knows her family.

Discussion about homeschool conventions is also popping into the FB thread. I add it here because I've discussed it with some of you in the past. I am hopeful to see change a-coming! A couple quotations below. WD: " Michael Farris, What is the chance we start seeing HSLDA not participating in, publicly telling homeschoolers not to participate in homeschool conferences that promote this ideology, or starting to call out other leaders of the movement publicly. Sadly many brand new homeschoolers figure they should go to their local state convention to learn about homeschooling, and quickly get sucked into the ideology since the ideology is being promoted there. Voddie Baucham is a very strong proponent of the prophet/priest/king belief, regularly keynotes homeschool conventions, and is a mainstream part of the homeschool movement. Many other radical leaders are also regulars at state conventions which thousands of homeschoolers attend." PM: "I second what Willie said. Kevin Swanson is another huge patriarchy proponent who is a highly popular conference speaker, especially in western states. Christian Home Educators of Colorado, which he formerly led, is also a major proponent of this ideology, with its board of directors completely dominated by people with extreme patriarchal views. The annual CHEC conference in Denver is one of the most highly attended home school conferences in the west, and many of the keynote speakers each year are proponents of patriarchy. Over the last few years, CHEC has seen a mass exodus of volunteers and board members who were uncomfortable with its views, and it has only continued to ramp up its efforts to promote patriarchy and family integrated churches. However, there has not been very much public opposition to CHEC or Kevin Swanson, primarily because people "don't want to cause division" or risk harming friendships with people who are still involved in CHEC. What is desperately needed is for prominent home school leaders like Mr. Farris and organizations like HSLDA to begin publicly calling out rogue home school organizations like CHEC and leaders like Kevin Swanson who are teaching this stuff, and to discourage their organization's members from attending conferences and events sponsored by promoters of this ideology. I also would be interested to know what kinds of efforts Mike and HSLDA will be making to oppose this stuff in the future." Farris: "WD and PM, I would like to ask you a question. Can you both message me?" And this: KO: I have already contacted my state group here in PA (CHAP) which had Doug Phillips/Vision Forum at their convention many times, asking if they would be making a public statement about this. I was told, "No."

Michael Farris of HSLDA posted this on his public FB page yesterday: "I have no pleasure in posting the following link to a very important story about Doug Phillips. I am quoted at length in the article, so there is not as much need to comment here. I will say one thing. I wish I had spoken up sooner. There was no way that I could have known that Doug was involved in sexual misconduct, but I knew that he was involved in unscriptural views about women in his teaching. He was teaching that girls should never go to college. I started a college where half the student body is female and PHC just elected a woman student as the President of the Student Body. He was teaching that girls should basically stay in their father's home until marriage. I sent my oldest daughter off to Cedarville University and my second daughter off to Romania as a missionary. I thought my actions would speak louder than his words. I wish I had used words too. http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/pastor-accused-of-using-nanny-as-sex-object-2/" The usual suspects have shown up to comment (188 comments so far), those standing up for the tenets of patriarchy, as well as those adding arguments to debunk patriarchy, those trying to blame the victim and then those championing her cause. There have been some fascinating interchanges. A poster whom I'll address by her initials, CG, wrote about her personal story (of abuse, I'm deducing, though she doesn't say it). Mr. Farris's response follows. To make sure you don't miss his last sentence, I'll repeat it here: It would be easy to contend that Doug's sin was separate from his patriarchy views. I am saying the opposite. His views of women were integral to his actions. CG: Mike Farris, you know my story. I don't know if you also know that there were Vision Forum products all over my house growing up, that my father sent me readings from Rushdooney's Chalcedon Foundation to explain the role of a father over an adult daughter, that my parents quoted your parental rights rhetoric at me to justify their behavior, and that my parents expected PHC to enforce their will on me while I attended. It's all interconnected in their minds. And after almost 20 years of being seeped in this ideology, with no one they respected ever giving a word of moderation or caution or warning--well, it is a lost cause now and you know what has happened. I do have to wonder how different my life would be if someone had told my parents 20 years ago how evil these teachings are. Farris: "CG, yes I know a lot of your story. I didn't know what materials were in your family's home but I am not surprised. I make no defense of my past public silence. I have said I wish I had spoken earlier. But, I do think it is important to note that I was, in fact, a voice of reason at least to some degree in your life. You recently told me that I was the first authority figure you ever encountered who denounced slavery on moral grounds. And you know that in conversations with your parents I tried to get them to be more reasonable with you. Finally, you know that when you asked me for help with your sister, I willingly helped. I do not contend that any of these private actions justify my past failure to speak out publicly. But I trust that it is some evidence to you as to nature of my heart. Carmen, it is accumulation of stories like yours that is now causing me to publicly condemn patriarchy as a philosophy. It would be easy to contend that Doug's sin was separate from his patriarchy views. I am saying the opposite. His views of women were integral to his actions."

Yes. How did "modest" come to mean "not showing any part of your body that men might find sexually appealing?" The attitudes about a woman's body in the "modesty culture" seem, to me, very similar to attitudes in the Muslim world. Has anyone read Reading Lolita in Tehran? Even letting a wisp of hair come loose from a headscarf was considered immodest. My Better Half taught at our fellowship about 1 Tim. 2, in which modesty is mentioned.. Afterwards, a friend told me she wished he had been more specific about modest dress. Better Half said, "I can't be more specific than the Bible is."

Best thing I've read in the last 2 days! I'll take it a step further: Leaders of a healthy church are servants... leaders of an abusive church or cult see everyone else as the servants. Matthew 20:25, 26 for biblical support of this idea: But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant...

Read the bold text above. If that quotation persuades you to use Jacobs' for Alg. 1 & 2, I will forever regret posting the link! ;)

It worked well for us to go from Jacobs to Lial. Both books, though very different, were very conducive to self-teaching with my oversight. And my students all did fairly well with the teaching styles of both books. I have observed (others on this board surely know more about this than I do) that the topics of Alg. 1 and 2 are almost the same, but each topic is covered in more depth in Alg. 2. If a parent only looks over the table of contents of 2 algebra books, they might be led to think that they "covered" the same material, when, really, one book teaches much more difficult content. ETA: Have you read this review of Jacob's books from Pennsylvania Homeschoolers? I just reread it, and I see that she concludes that she writes, "As far as I can see it has everything that both Saxon Algebra I and Algebra II have (this is not based on a really in depth check, just a quick browse through)." Ha! Exactly my point above!

No. We've used Jacob's Algebra for 5 students. Then we went on to Intermediate Algebra of the Lial series for Alg. 2. Definitely more content in Intermediate Alg. than in Jacob's. I would be interested in links to those reviews, please. Thanks!