rlestina
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Posts posted by rlestina
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If Lukeion and AoPS aren't "Honors", then honors has no meaning...
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I'm one of the negative voices. I'm skeptical when I see the numbers of students taking this course combined with the numbers for the AP CS course, because they feel like very different courses to me. Maybe I don't understand the purpose of the course or where the course it replaces would fit into the degree or graduation requirements of a typical college student.
I'd welcome more information, because so far I've only seen things like the CB course description and the sample task assignment responses.
One of my kids did AP Computer Science with Edhesive (then named Amplify) and scored a 4. He is a Computer Science major at a Tech university. One of his comments is that when he took the Intro to Programming course this year, it was very fast paced and assumed a lot of previous familiarity. His school accepts the AP CS exam score as a Computer Science Elective. They accept the AP CS Principles course as "Computer Science, a Liberal Arts Approach," which would fill a general graduation requirement, but not a Computer Science degree requirement.
Who would you recommend take the Principles course? What did your kids get out of doing the course that they didn't already have familiarity with?
Did you think that the course required college level thinking or work?
Do you think that students taking the Principles course would go on to take more Computer Science courses including programming, or do you think they will go off in a different direction?
I think AP CSP fills a useful niche as either an intro to computer science for non-majors, or a general survey course for future CS majors. As a gen ed requirement for non majors, yes, I would say it is college level. As an intro course for future CS majors, no, I would not expect it to get credit within the CS major - but I think it has value anyway to at least some future CS majors, just because it is a very broad survey class that covers not just programming but also networks, operating systems, information security, history of computer science, and much more. I would see a future CS major taking it as an AP maybe in 9th or 10th grade, followed by AP CS A - Java, which is rigorous but specifically focused on programming. As you know, there is more to computer science than just programming.
So yes, I would agree with how your kid's college gave credit for it - but I don't see that as a flaw, or as invalidating the AP. After all, many colleges do something similar with AP Biology or Chemistry - they give credit for it as a science elective, or as "Biology for non majors", but they won't give credit for it as a General Biology class for Biology majors. Which is reasonable, IMO.
Things I liked about AP CSP:
- a broad survey of all aspects of computer science, not just programming
- includes two hands on projects: a programming project, that can be done in any programming language, and a research project, in addition to the usual AP exam - the programming project I thought was a great addition to the class
- a good class for kids who might be interested in CS (as a major or a minor) but who aren't already super passionate and knowledgable about it
Thinks I did not like:
-the research project felt very "high school" and did not add much value, in my opinion - tho my kids did enjoy doing it
-from an administrative standpoint, navigating the interface to submit things, and understanding what CB wanted to see, was quite a pain and not very easy to work with - maybe that will get better, since this was their first year doing it
As to my kids, and what they got out of it:
- My then-14year old 9th grader took it (got a 4) - she wants to be an accountant. She enjoyed it, and I think it opened her eyes to how computers work, and how they can best be used as tools that add value to other tasks, what their strengths and weaknesses are. She won't major in CS, but she liked it enough based on this intro that she may consider some future classes as electives, or maybe a minor in CS.
- My then-16 year old 10th grader also took it (got a 5). She wants to be a web designer / graphic artist. She was already pretty computer literate and had some programming experience (python) in addition to a bit of basic web design (html/css), but she found the class useful in filling in gaps in her knowledge - for example, she learned a lot about cryptography, and did her research project on new developments in natural language translation software. For her programming project she programmed a basic art program, sort of like a super-simple version of Adobe Illustrator. She plans to take AP Computer Science A - Java this coming year, and expects to study a lot more computer science.
- Next year, my going to be 17 year old 11th grader plans to take it. He has no real idea what he wants to major in, and is taking this as an elective and to learn more about computer science. Plus he saw how much the girls enjoyed it. :)
Should a kid who is already an uber-geek super programmer take this? No! But for kids who aren't sure what they want, or aren't going to major in CS but want to better understand computers, or are going to major in CS but just want a good broad introduction, I think this is a great class.
Lastly, I would add one side note that I think gets lost sometimes - we expect kids to learn biology, or chemistry, or civics, because those are important foundational things to know in our world, whether they will major in them or not. But we aren't always systematically teaching them about computers at the high school or intro college level, even tho computers are now ubiquitous and have become foundational to many things. I think this class has value as a general ed class similar to AP Comparative Government or AP Psychology or AP Biology - as a way for kids to learn things that are important to our world, regardless of their future path. I think that to judge AP CSP by how well it serves only future CS majors is to miss a lot of the point. I'm not saying it can't be useful for future CS majors - but we don't expect only future English majors to take AP English Lit, or only future Poli Sci majors to take AP Comparative Government... so why would we judge AP CSP primarily on how it serves future Comp Sci majors? (I'm not saying that is your argument, just something I hear a lot).
/end soapbox
Anyway, I hope that helps. Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful questions.
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Thanks for the explanation. Still, I will point out that requiring the course syllabus to be audited and approved is not something that is required for the vast majority of AP exams. Personally, I think that the College Board's decision to make access to AP exams more difficult should not be applauded.
Ahh, I understand better now... I always submit the syllabus and get College Board approved for any AP class my kids will do that is not fully outsourced (like to AP Homeschoolers). I find the access to practice tests, etc, to be very valuable. So I didn't even think about that as being an added burden, but I suppose if you often have your kids just study and then take the AP test, it would be an extra hoop to jump thru.
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The Digital Portfolio requires a school.
" If you are not enrolled in an AP CSP class for the current academic year, you will be prompted to add a class by clicking the ‘Add Classes’ button.
....
Yes, the digital portfolio requires a school... but our homeschool is considered a school by their software. No external school is required, assuming you get your homeschool class college board approved.
We did this course in our homeschool last year. I completely agree that it is confusing and misleading - it took me several hours of poking around on their web site and two phone calls to College Board - but I can definitely state that you do NOT need an external school to do this class.
You as the homeschool teacher can (and must!) submit the Performance tasks for your students. I did it, and it worked. :)
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Edhesive is not offering CSP for homeschoolers. This is the response I got when I asked about it.
Additionally, a school's participation is required in order to turn in the performance tasks (the AP administrator or teacher at a school submits student work through their school account) and also administer the multiple choice portion of the AP exam.
What Edhesive says is not accurate - either they are confused, or the rules changed after they posted that.
This past school year two of my kids took AP Computer Science Principles. I had previously registered a syllabus thru the usual College Board process, and was approved to teach AP CSP in my homeschool. (I have a professional computer science background.)
I was able to have my kids to do the Performance tasks at home, and I was able to submit them myself thru the College Board portal, with no involvement from a school.
The only school involvement was the usual having them take the actual exam at a local high school, which we had no problem doing.
My 2 kids got a 4 and a 5 respectively.
I'm not sure why this AP class is getting so much negativity from parts of the homeschool community - it's too bad, because it's actually a great fit for homeschooling. I enjoyed teaching it, and my kids enjoyed learning. They did not have any issues doing it without school involvement except for the administration of the AP exam at the end - and of course you have that will all APs.
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What are your recommendations for comprehensive/cumulative math review of high school math? One of my kids is quite good at learning math, but quick to forget any parts he does not use regularly. He would like a math program that gives him a wide range of types of problems, so he can review/ keep things fresh.
We've used Khan Academy mastery challenges, but the problem is that once the program thinks he has mastered something the topic rarely shows up again, and because we used Khan extensively during his earlier years, most of the stuff shows up as mastered.
I've heard some things about ALEKS - would that be a possibility? Online and adaptive would be ideal, but workbook based would be ok too.
We'd like it to include Algebra I and II, Geometry, and PreCalculus, and to sort of "mix it up" - something like 10 problems a day where each problem was a different kind of math would be ideal (like 1 linear equation, 1 fractional exponent problem, 1 quadratic, 1 circle problem, 1 trig identity, you get the idea...)
Anyone have similar needs? What has worked for your kids?
Thanks!!
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Two DDs took AP Computer Science Principles - one 5, and one 4. They used CodeHS and self-study.
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It was also "handed out" in class so she will have to email to have the file sent to her if she did not capture it during lecture (according to my dd). I'm not sure why they are not put on the class page.
Thanks - good to know! She was just watching the recording, maybe she can get it from that? And agreed, I wish those things would be put on the class page.
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While we are talking about Latin 3 - my daughter can't seem to find the handout for this week's translation homework. Can anyone point us in the right direction? Thanks!!
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Haven't quit AoPS yet, but we are seriously considering moving to Derek Owens for my oldest DD. She likes AoPS - they all do - but it's the pace. She's at the point where she's becoming much more tactical about math - she wants to cover what she needs for the SAT and get on to Calculus in time to do the Calc AP and maybe Calculus based physics. AoPS is still working well for my younger ones, but it is such a very, very time consuming program. There are days when we only get through one problem, or maybe two. I think it works best when you start it early - but some kids can handle starting it early and some can't.
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I'm interested in these copybooks! Do they provide the style of the cursive? I can't find the information online. Thank you.
I'm not sure what the style is, but there are free samples you can download and look at or print out:
Sample from Inspirational Quotes
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You can try these cursive copywork books - they provide passages from classic literature (like Shakespeare, Robert Frost, Charles Dickens), or quotes from historical figures or US Presidents, so they should be interesting to an older student, while still giving them good practice on cursive writing.
Great Literature Cursive Copywork
Inspirational Quotes Cursive Copywork
Presidents of the United States Cursive Copywork
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OP, I was in a similar spot with my dd a couple of months ago and we've moved on to Derek Owens.
We are using the half-price option where I grade all the work using his solutions and I prefer it because I can immediately give my dd feedback on her work.
I didn't know Derek Owens had that option. Does it work with the online classes?
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Any Arabic curriculum recommendations? We are ideally looking for something that covers the grammar and syntax, not just "Arabic for tourists." Self paced, online and secular would also be awesome.
Any info on your experiences, good or bad, would be much appreciated! Thanks!
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Please bear with my questions a little longer. :) I *so* wish that I could see an AoPS book in person!
My next question is this: Does Alcumus accurately reflect the difficulty level of problems in the AoPS texts?
Yes. But remember, Alcumus is only available for the Intro-level topics - Pre-Algebra, Intro to Algebra, Intro to C&P, Intro to Number Theory, and Intro to Geometry.
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I have two heading into 9th next year... very, very different kids:
For A:
AoPS PreCalculus (book only)
French I - still looking for a good online provider
either Biology or Chemistry at the CC
AP Psychology (finishing - she started this year but wasn't ready to test)
Web Development
English Literature - great books
maybe an animation related elective?
extracurriculars, figure skating, teaching skating, volunteering with the elderly
For D:
AoPS Algebra I (book only)
English - Creative Writing
Psychology
Music - Voice
Performance Arts - Acting
Skilled Trades - Carpentry & woodworking apprenticeship
extracurriculars, volunteering for political campaigns
(note that she is not college-bound; she is planning a career in the skilled trades)
How things can change in 6 months... now it looks like:
For A, who has now decided she wants an accounting certificate from the CC:
AoPS PreCalculus (book only)
Spanish I
Financial Accounting - from ProfessorinaBox
Excel and Access (from the CC)
English Literature - great books
AP MicroEconomics
Ceramics
extracurriculars, figure skating, teaching skating, volunteering at the local arts center
For D:
AoPS Algebra I (book only)
English - Creative Writing, from Gotham Writers online
Animation
Chinese I (Cantonese)
Music - Voice
Performance Arts - Acting
Skilled Trades - Carpentry & woodworking apprenticeship
extracurriculars, volunteering for political campaigns
(note that she is not college-bound; she is planning a career in the skilled trades)
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What have you done for art? I know your husband has done it with them, but I would love a little bit of detail. I would like to do art with the kids, but it is quite costly to keep sending them out for art.
I would love to help you with this but I'm not sure that I really can. My husband has been working with them on art on and off their whole lives. But as far as I know, he's never used a curriculum or anything like that. He talks to them, shows them things, goes to art museums with them, teaches hands-on skills with pen and ink, watercolor, Adobe Illustrator, etc, discusses technique - and honestly I don't understand most of it. They talk about perspective and light/shadow and use of negative space and composition and how the eye moves over the paper and I am very much not an artist so I just kind of glaze over. :)
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I haven't been in the exact situation as you, but I hope my experience is helpful . . . My dd did the AP art with PA Homeschoolers, but in the end, she had to have a school agree to submit her portfolio for her. Fortunately, I knew before undertaking the course that my umbrella school would be willing to do the submission for me. So, I think you would need to find a school to submit her portfolio for her. However, since you had your course approved by the College Board, maybe they would let you submit directly? Can you call the College Board and ask?
Martha
Martha, that is helpful, thanks!
I'm guessing PA Homeschoolers is approved by the College Board but not a school, just like I am - so if you had to submit through a school for them, then I probably do also. I'll ask my local high school - they are generally very homeschool friendly. And yes, I suppose I could ask the College Board. They just don't seem all that easy to talk to.
Thanks!
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Does anyone have any experience with doing an AP Studio Art without an outsourced class?
I have prepared and submitted the syllabus to the College Board for AP Studio Art: Drawing, and it was approved. My husband is a professional artist and has taught the kids, so that's not an issue. But for all other AP classes we do at home, we then sign up the kid to take the AP test at a local high school. For AP Studio Art, there is no test, but there is a complicated process to submit the artworks and pictures of the artworks, and apparently these materials are provided by the College Board.
Does anyone have any idea how we do that as homeschoolers? Do we somehow coordinate with the high school to get the rules and materials and submit the portfolio thru them? Do we get the stuff to submit the portfolio directly from the College Board, since there's no proctoring aspect to the portfolio submission?
Anyone know anything? Hoping someone has btdt!
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We did it last year - AoPS for both. We did some of both Algebra II and Geometry each day - generally alternating introducing a new concept in one while doing review in the other, and then flipping it, so they didn't feel overwhelmed. Worked out pretty well.
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Unless you really need the credit hours, I would not call this a course. I think it would feel like transcript padding, since presumably every college-prep kid spends time these things, but as far as I know most B&M high schools do not treat them as an actual course. However, you could certainly count the time she spends on SAT prep towards her English and Math (presumeably Algebra I / II / Geometry) hours, if you count hours for credits. I have seen transcripts with "Study Skills" as a class, but they seem to only show up on more remedial transcripts, so you may want to think about the message it may send and whether that's what you would intend.
Don't get me wrong - I think doing those things are all great. I'm just not sure that bundling them into a class and putting it on her transcript is the best idea.
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Try watching the Khan Academy Chemistry videos - my two who are dual enrolled in a CC Chemistry found them very helpful in explaining concepts the professor and/or textbook did not clearly explain, and as good prep before covering similar material in class.
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I have two kids who took the SAT biology test this past spring. One said his test included a LOT of very detailed questions on the human body, including reproductive and endocrine systems. The other said her test had only a few human anatomy questions - she was disappointed because that's one of her best areas. But both definitely included the topic. And yes, it was a very vocabulary intensive test.
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Yes, it's a full course. As with all AoPS, it's rather intense and great for mathy kids. The online class moves fast. If you buy the books and use it independently, of course, you can move at whatever pace you want.
We did it and it generally worked very well. My only gripe was/is that there are plenty of proofs, sure, but the book does not really "teach" proofs. It uses the same "discovery" method that AoPS uses for everything, and while that works great for lots of stuff, for my kids, that did not work so well with proofs. We wound up getting a supplemental book just on proofs, which helped immensely.
Can anyone recommend a good math tutor?
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
For Algebra II, Trig, PreCalc? Specifically to prep for the math portion of the SAT (trying to get a score from the high 600s/low 700s to something better), but also to help in preparing for AP Calc this fall?
I've been teaching her (I have a math background), but at this point I really think she would benefit from someone other than me - a different perspective, a different way of thinking or approaching the problems, whatever.
Does anyone have an online tutor that they've used that they would recommend? Any suggestions greatly appreciated!