At the end of the day, you really can't speak for what all children do and do not need, as a whole, from the general "village." Your stern sentence would scare the carp out of my five year old, and he would associate it only with the person (you), the venue (your home), and the activity (playing with others). The result is that he would certainly stop hitting or grabbing, but he would also be terrified of you, your home, and socializing with others. There are friends of mine that can correct him without setting back our progress six months, and they are my village, but they are very, very few and certainly not every casual friend we might have. With that said, if my child was hurting or grabbing another, we would leave. I wouldn't sit there and let it continue to happen. I've had parents with children who do these things continuously, and we simply do not schedule more playdates with them if I'm aware of SNs that may prevent them from being capable of appropriate play. I understand that, friendship with parent aside, my preference for a certain behavior may not be the goal they are focusing on at that time, and I understand how delicate it can be to confront -- even casually -- behaviors that aren't that goal or in a way that the parents aren't. My five year old wouldn't go back to OT until recently, because of an incident that happened months and months and months ago. An OT reprimanded him because he refused to move from one activity to another OT-preferred activity (coloring). My son associated the reprimand with the OT, who he was then terrified of; the activity (coloring), and the office (and OT office). When we tried to move him into a different OT setting, with a different OT, he would screech and rock and cover his ears -- absolutely terrified of the entire idea. Her reprimand wasn't particularly harsh, but it wasn't one we have ever used with him, and it scared him. In his mind, coloring and OT was the entire reason he was scared, not the entirely too general and typical idea of disobedience -- or in a situation described in this thread, the too general (but abstract) concept of stealing a toy or hitting. You may consider "don't steal" and "no hitting" to be concrete, but they are only concrete if he's able to understand what stealing means, which means understanding the concept of taking turns, ownership, etc; "no hitting" is only concrete an easy to understand if a child is able to empathize with others and is capable of articulating his needs, instead of using his hands to do so. Neither of these are focus goals right now, so we remedy the situation simply by cutting off the playdate. We'll get there, but not necessarily in the friend's timeline. I would assume that the friends you have coffee with, and playdates with, probably hold similar beliefs (to your own) regarding these things. I don't. Which is why the village I'm comfortable with my children being around is very limited. I've experienced the massive setbacks when well-meaning adults assume that all children "need" to know certain things and that their own approach to it (since it's a well-meaning and relatively gentle approach) should be gentle enough, kind enough, and necessary enough will work well for all kids.

I think we just have a different idea of "telling off" :) To me, that implies much more than just an, "I'll have that, thank you," lol. With that said, I think that if you know the child well enough to know of any potential issues that may come along with you interfering, and you know Mom well enough to know that she is okay with (or even wants) you to intervene in such a gentle manner, have at it. My guy-friend has an autistic teenage son who is simply entirely too rough with my much, much younger ASD sons -- although they have similar interests. My friend has asked me to tell his son when he needs to "calm down" or "take a break," because he just doesn't respond to Dad much these days (because, despite his limitations and differences, he IS still a teenage boy, lol). However, if my 5 year old son, more severe on the spectrum, were reprimanded -- even very gently -- by someone he didn't know very well, and trust implicitly, the immediate effect on his behavior may be what you view as positive, but it would likely set him back seriously in so many ways. He doesn't have the ability, cognitively, to associate your (again, even very gentle) reprimand with only that he stole a toy -- he would instead interpret it as "scary" (his term for anything unknown and unsettling to him) and associate it with the entirety of the situation... in this hypothetical case, that he was playing with other children, at your house, and you made him uncomfortable. He would only associate his discomfort, then, with you, your house, and playing with other kids. Even if we were basic friends, you would only know that he's ASD, but you wouldn't be likely to know the ins and outs of exactly those potential problems, or how hard we're working on them. We may interpret my lack of interference as me doing "nothing," but the reality is that we have to focus on only one behavior at a time, and that likely isn't "it" right now. And the other reality is that even the closest of our friends can't really understand his specific needs, because even every ASD kid is different (I know, because both of my ASD kids have opposite needs in these situations, lol). You may think that your gentle tone is gentle enough that it wouldn't offend any child. It's why I avoid playdates like the plague, 90% of the time. But, really, taking toys is typical behavior for kids the ages the OP is talking about. And why they should be supervised at play. Two year olds have zero impulse control and zero understanding of ownership beyond themselves. At that age, toddlers playing with older kids -- who do understand the social expectations of group play -- should, imo, be pretty closely watched so that scripting and modeling correct behavior can happen, which beats waiting until we reach the "steal and run" end :D I don't really understand a coffee date for Moms only, with such young children and expecting these children to just play on their own with no real interference from Mom.

I'm really curious how this goes over. Because if you (general "you" -- friend, family member, or who-the-crap-ever) told off my kids, while I was there and you weren't directly in a position of authority over them, you wouldn't have to worry about saving a relationship with me -- we would no longer be friends. There is zero reason to tell off a kid who isn't yours, if their parent is sitting right there. If the parent doesn't do anything, after you talk to them (you know, the other adult in the situation) about the problem, it's time to cut contact -- not tell off a kid.

I think it's fantastic that your toddlers were able to play without supervision or much attention. Mine haven't ever been able to separate and play unsupervised for more than a few minutes at that age. Let's even take our special needs out of the equation. I don't know many two year olds who can -- or should -- play for long without supervision. Hitting and breaking things is fairly typical for that age. In fact, it's pretty common for four year olds, too. Not wanting to separate from mom? Some kids just need their mom. Personally, I think you have unrealistic expectations -- if all they are doing is hanging off mom (some kids need more attention and don't care for separation -- that doesn't make them "demanding brats"), and the two year old is hitting (again, mom needs to correct, but it's typical... and why two year olds shouldn't play long without supervision), or the four year old is breaking things (not uncommon), that makes them pretty typical in my circle of friends.

There are several in our area. I will say that all have very specific SOFs -- and this is something you'll need to consider. It matters. I'm not saying I'm in favor of them (because the co-ops that exist locally typically have a SOF that exclude us, as Catholics), but I see why they're necessary. If you're planning on teaching science from a YE perspective, for example, or even just using YE texts in the class, you need to have that upfront and in writing; if your history is very centric to a specific worldview, that needs to be stated upfront. Otherwise, you're playing with fire. Also, consider hiring teachers. Either parents with a teaching background in that subject, field professionals, or (say) those with certifications in that field (like and IEW certified writing instructor, just as an example). The co-ops that have parents, without a certain expertise, teaching here definitely lean more extracurricular and "fun," but less academic. It could just be that there are enough co-ops they can afford to be picky, but there are "the academic co-ops" (which have teachers that are professionals in some capacity, like I said -- either field professionals or former teachers) and then there are the "other co-ops" (which may offer some academics, but most parents only use them for extras). The academic co-ops tend to charge around $300/class for the year or the semester, depending on the class -- plus fees for labs, textbooks, and other supplies. I know it seems like a lot to some, but again -- these are typically taught by professionals. Also, the academic co-ops typically meet twice weekly for academic core subjects (english, maths, history, etc) and once weekly for extra classes (art, music, etc) -- and it's worth mentioning that most academic co-ops here also offer extras, because most parents do not want to attend two different co-ops to meet all their needs. These co-ops also tend to have parties for the kids, dances, etc. All of them rent space in local churches, that they aren't necessarily affiliated with. The pros I've seen are obvious -- they offer outsourced teaching for more difficult subjects, socialization opportunities, and accountability. The cons that most mention is the cost. The flip side of that is the same parents complaining about the cost are often also the ones complaining about the lack of credentials of teachers in other co-ops or tutorials, so consider the source. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch ;) You have to decide how academic you want your academic co-op to be. And if you go for field professionals, make sure they can teach it. For example, my husband is more than "qualified" to teach biology, physics, engineering, and any high school maths, through calculus. As in, he is quite proficient in those areas himself and has degrees in related fields. However, I would never offer him up as a teacher for any of them, unless the class was specifically for very focused, very advanced, very motivated students for whom those subjects have the potential to come easily. For DH, these came so naturally that I'm not sure he would do well teaching a class with students that needed patience, differentiated instruction, or a slower pace. He also tends to become excited about these areas, and assumes everyone else is ;)

The yards and decks and mulch beds and bushes have all been sprayed multiple times, by professional pest control companies we have hired.

The vet has been overseeing treatment. She did give us some of the medication (the "kill them now" meds) -- the other medication is what she recommended for monthly, but was able to be purchased OTC. According to the vet and the pest control guys, it doesn't matter how well or how frequently we treat the dogs (in terms of relative excess) -- if the yard is infested, and other animals are bringing in the fleas, we are going to have at least a small amount on the dogs (until the fleas die) and tracked into the house.

Are the granules safe for pets? The yard guys aren't treating the yard -- our pest control company treats both the inside of the house and the yards.

Even if the cats aren't causing the fleas, I have a major issue with the cats running into my house and my garage any time I open my front door or my garage door. We don't own cats. We don't want cats in the house. Much the same, I would imagine, as people not wanting my "I-swear-to-God-he's-friendly" 100 lb. German Shepherd running amok in the neighborhood and into everyone's houses as he pleases, kwim? Even if he's totally friendly and just wants to play, him chasing the neighborhood kids and running into houses wouldn't be very welcome, lol.

Aggghhhh! That would be awful! We're in our basement pretty frequently, since we're in the middle of finishing it into usable space/square footage, so I would assume that we would smell... death. DH is actually in the middle of putting up the walls, so I hope nothing has died in there! Lol.

This is a great suggestion and one that has been mentioned before. My concern is that two of our kids have significant special needs -- one more on the severe end of the spectrum, who stims by rubbing his face and forehead on the floors; the other with medical special needs, including lung problems. If breathing the dust in is potentially dangerous, I'm not sure how safe it would be, kwim? ETA: the fleas seem to be contained to the yards right now. I know they are riding on the dogs on some level, but the fleas in the house seem much, much less than they were this summer. The pest control guys came out every couple of weeks to spray down the entirety of the house, and between that and the dogs being treated, it did seem to make a decent dent. The area that seems to not be taking to treatment is the outdoors -- which is problematic because I have to let the dogs out, at least to potty. We don't really get a dry week around here this time of the year, which may be why the chemical yard treatments aren't taking very well.

Only the elderly dog receives a topical treatment. The GSD receives a chewable form.

If I hadn't been on the receiving end of the HOA's wrath before, I would buy 50 chickens and let them loose in our yards. Totally Not Joking, Aimee

The pest control dudes told us to vacuum the hardwoods religiously, too -- and that's just as a preventative measure while we know they're still outside, even if we don't see them off the dogs. This summer when the fleas actively invaded the house, it was miserable (the vacuuming, I mean, lol). I posted another warning ("Keep your cats in or I'm going to start humanely trapping them as per the county") in our neighborhood FB group, and I've had several PM me (and comment on the active posts I have up) with similar horror stories -- same cats (one cat recently left his collar at the scene of a "crime," lol, and they posted a picture of it). But, yeah, even if it isn't the pet cats causing the flea issues (I know we have feral cats in the area), the cats are causing other problems.

We use a different flea product for each dog. Our GSD takes Nexguard and our Iggy takes Sentry; the GSD's is a chewable, but the Iggy's is placed on her skin (her stomach can't handle the chewable). We make sure not to bathe the Iggy for weeks after the preventative.

There is only carpet upstairs -- which is why the dogs aren't allowed upstairs, lol. During the summer, they did get tracked up there and it was AWFUL. I don't actually mind vacuuming the hardwoods on the main floor. DH got me a nifty new vacuum with different levels of "pull," so it isn't as painful to do the hardwoods frequently. My back eventually aches, but not like this past summer. Now, upstairs we have not only carpeting, but extra padding and plush carpeting, due to a particular special needs kiddo of ours who likes to bounce himself off furniture and rub his head on floors :p I love the idea of a sensor sprinkler system. Any idea how that would effect legitimate dog walkers, though? The sidewalks run through the fronts of the yards.

I almost mentioned that the kids couldn't play in the yard... but I thought it would sound silly on my part. I'm so glad someone else was thinking it, too! They haven't been able to play in the yard since the middle of summer. The pest control company can only spray the house so often (it takes them about an hour and we have to leave the house for a couple hours every time they do) and told me that vacuuming was the very best way to prevent the fleas from taking over the house again, since the fleas are being tracked in from outdoors by either the dogs or humans.

Well, the dogs aren't out for long periods of time. Ironically, the neighbors (who have no problem letting their cats roam) will usually complain about dogs barking :P And only the 10 lb, elderly, Italian Greyhound is ever in the front yard (never alone). It isn't fenced. She isn't very intimidating, lol -- even to cats :P

I don't know that it's back to house-wide. I know that I've kept up the cleaning on the main floor of the house (the only floor the dogs are allowed on; they aren't allowed upstairs in the kids' bedrooms) and I know that I've seen them back on the dogs. It's possible that they are dying shortly after transferring to the dogs, but I'm still more than a little annoyed that the fleas are in the yard. Is it possible that landscaping is undoing or interfering with the yard sprays for the fleas? The yard sprays (for the fleas) are done by the pest control company; the landscaping is done by a different person entirely; then there is a third company that comes out and sprays the lawns for weeds.

This is our first year with fleas, too. I live in the south. Eventually it will get cold, but it never really stays below 35 or so for the entirety of a day (maybe at night it will dip, but by mid-day it's usually back up in the 40's, even during the winter). They only really seem to be on the dogs after they go outside in the yard -- but I was/am under the impression that the fleas have to bite the dogs in order to die, and the dogs have to go out pretty frequently, especially the GSD who really needs the exercise. I'm not 100% that it's the pet cats -- and definitely not solely. We know there are also feral cats and animals in the area. I'm sick of the cats stalking my yard in way that goes beyond the fleas. We've had problems with this (as have a few other neighbors) for a couple years now (cats stalking the yard, coming into the house, jumping off our cars and from under our cars, pottying in flower beds, etc.), but the fleas are new as of this summer.

They seem to die quickly, but don't they have to bite the dogs in order to die? And I'm not sure how many I'm seeing... I really, really hate bugs, so five or six seems like a lot to me, but may not to someone else, lol. They seem to be contained to just the dogs at this point, and the yard. I'm not sure what is going with the yard, except that there is repeated exposure -- and the vet said we needed a "good frost"? The only thing that makes sense to me is that it isn't just my yard -- not all of the yards in the neighborhood are fenced (they aren't required to be), and I know that several others are having similar problems (and live somewhat close), so what would make the most sense is if even one in that batch isn't doing anything about the flea problem, couldn't it lend to transferring the fleas to the other yards?

The vet and pest control guys are from the area and have said that the usual culprits (in our area; both are local to our immediate area) are outdoor pet cats or feral cats -- but, really, even if weren't causing the flea issue, it's still getting out of control -- they hide on our car hoods and under our cars; they hide in our bushes and run into houses; they hide next to garages and then sneak into garages, and use the flower beds and mulch for kitty litter (as per a few neighbors who contacted me after I made my first complaint). It's becoming a major problem for those of us with cat allergies in the house.

We already have the max height in the backyard, as allowed per the HOA -- six feet. And they would call my bluff. They live right next door and I'm not sending sending my dogs away for a month (and couldn't, even if I were willing -- we have no family anywhere near the area). The subdivision sidewalks run in front of the yards, so we can't actually use something that lethal on the yards -- because it's perfectly legal and fine for residents to walk their animals (on leashes) on the sidewalks, and I wouldn't want a dog or cat to be poisoned because of a one time "dog peed on your tree" incident.

Only one set of neighbors. They are directly next door. In fact, we've physically taken the cats back to them. The other cats appear to be pets, but I'm not sure who they belong to.

The fleas were gone. Yipee! They're back. The dogs have had their regular treatments, been given emergency "kill them now" doses; they have been professionally groomed and our GSD incurred several hundred dollars worth of treatment due to an infection from the fleas. We have had our pest control guys out several times and they have sprayed down the entirety of the inside of the house -- and the yards. Our yards are regularly taken care of by a private landscaping dude (who has done our lawns for almost 10 years now). I vacuum several times a day. The house is over 4000 square feet. My back is killing me. We know WHY the fleas are back, but I feel powerless to fix the situation. The neighbors' cats. Literally, just yesterday, I saw one of them in our front yard -- scratching their fleas. The vet warned us that cats were probably bringing them into the yard and that if we didn't fix that issue, we were fighting a losing battle. We aren't allowed to have fences in our front yards, as per the very strict HOA for our subdivision -- and the cats can easily scale the fence in the backyard. But, seriously, what the heck can I do about it?! The neighbors' cats are terrorizing far more than just us (several others in the subdivision have complained), too, but it isn't illegal. The cats are constantly in our yards and I can't even leave our front door open long enough to bring in groceries from the car because the cats stalk our bushes and will run into our house! I know the neighbors love their cats, but this is getting ridiculous. If you call animal control, there is only one recourse -- they have a "cat diversion" program. If I call them, they will bring me humane cat traps -- and then, when the cat steps into it, it traps them, I bring the cat into their office, etc. I don't need to say how much animosity this could, potentially, create between us and the neighbors with cats. At this point, I'm trying to weigh my options. My 15 year old Italian Greyhound is crawling with them again -- we can't dip her again and she absolutely cannot have any more medication than she's had; our very energetic three year old German Shepherd is so full of pent up energy that he's just bounced on top of a sick (laying on the couch) DD16 and scratched her across her face (trying to play), because he can't play outside really at all. The problem is that they have to outside to use the bathroom, so they're bringing the fleas back in -- and obviously people walk across our yards and into our house. The kids haven't been allowed to play in the backyard in months. I'm at my wit's end.