You can download the 'little white pamphlet' on Notgrass's site. It's located at the bottom of the other downloads for either World or American History. :)

Thanks for this thread and the replies! My dd is about to tackle Chemistry with Apologia too (after a tough Biology year). She is not too mathy, but I think doing Saxon Alg. 2 has prepared her for all those conversions. Since Chem is not so much about memorization I'm hoping that she will do better in general. We have all the lab materials and she would rather blow up the kitchen than dissect a frog any day! So that will be our science lab. I love the idea of using the Tiner book. As it's just sitting on my shelf, I will have her do that this summer. Thanks, Julie, for all those other possibilities too. :)

No misunderstanding, but I see what you mean, it did sound like I was taking it that way. Thanks for the clarification. Enjoy TOG!

Love the book recommendation! We are studying French language and my dd loves romantic books so this is a great combination. As for TOG, MSPolly, I love what I see online, but I only have one student now (who doesn't care much for history)....that's what always gets me. If I had started it with my son many years ago and then added my daughter, then I could see that it would be worth it. I used Sonlight, but now wish I had had this. I would love TOG, but I don't know about all that effort on my part when that is just not who my dd is. I think I just have to get the job done and focus on what she likes and that is science fiction or gothic romance type books (she loved Dr. J and Mr. H, Picture of Dorian Gray, Wuthering Heights, etc.). I probably ought to do a whole year on that when we do modern history. Hmmmm, that is something to consider yet again. I was going to do MFW and the rest of their World history, but have since changed my mind on that for various reasons. So, now I'm wondering about alternatives yet again. I only have 3 more years with her and I want it to ignite some kind of fire for learning (but that's another post). :glare: EDIT: Well, I showed the week sample of Year 2 of TOG to my dd and her eyes started to glaze over after the first few pages. But then she saw that science fiction/Star Trek list someone here had posted on Amazon and she immediately got excited and wanted to do those books. So, I am off to readjust my plan to include more modern history this year with sci fi/gothic lit. :)

My main question is this, is it better to do World History with American History combined or separately? I have Notgrass's books and was thinking of taking both sets and doing them in a somewhat chronological order. But would it be better to just finish up World History first (we are at the time where church history begins) and then the following year do American History with literature divided that way too? Or mix it all together? Advantages? Disadvantages to either approach? Thanks for any help with this. :)

There's Sonlight's Core 300; it's for the 20th century so there's plenty to choose from. Their site should give you even more choices! ;)

For those using WHL, how is the parallel text for British lit used? Is it something read throughout the whole year? From the sample, I cannot tell how much of this book is utilized. The whole thing? Parts? I know there are studies for other British lit books (Pride & Prejudice, Silas Marner) included, but just wondering specifically about the parallel text book. Thanks for any help with this!

We used the World History course this year, mainly the 1st book where the bible is intertwined with history. There are many history lessons that center on the bible so that once a week bible portion is more like twice a week in the 1st book (at least). This curriculum comes from a protestant POV. BUT, I believe Mr. Notgrass is very fair, showing both sides of the coin (he doesn't paint Luther as a saint for instance). If I were you, I would try to buy the set used (whichever one you want to begin with) and read some of it for yourself. It is easy to resell if it doesn't work for you. I always have to have the curriculum in my hands before I can decide (and then sometimes not even then!). :D

To clarify :001_smile:: the teacher notes are not mostly copied from the encyclopedia, they are mostly discussion scripts for Socratic discussion. The encyclopedia is not for students to read, it is for the teacher. I knew I should have rechecked that first before posting. Yes, I remember now that the World Book encyclopedia is in the teacher's notes, not the student's pages. Ugh. My apologies to all concerned. :) TOG looks so wonderful and I really wish I were up to it AND that my daughter would love it. Oh, that's right, I only have one to teach so THAT really is the reason why I don't use it. ;)

I have used Sonlight high school cores and Julie is right, the instructor's guide is another 1000 page book to read, very wordy, and to the excess, at least for my family. I research TOG from time to time and always leave their website shaking my head. If I had many children, I would consider them, but probably still wouldn't use them. Every time I get to the part where they literally have the encyclopedia printed there for your student to read (and you too!), I know that would be ultra boring. I'm sure many love TOG though and will hopefully chime in here for you. I have searched and searched for what Sonlight has (the schedule page) and something like Calvert (walking the student through their day with a schedule plus all the bells and whistles) and have found MFW late in the game. MFW is the closest to REALITY when it comes to what can be done in a day. We were always behind with Sonlight. MFW gives you a somewhat lighter day on Friday to catch up. Works for us. The notes are sparse though and I do sometimes long for more like SL, but it's better for us to add than to have to decide what to take away. That's just my family though. Others love SL's amount of notes. Since MFW covers Bible, Literature, and History, (and gives you a schedule written to the student with spaces on there for the other subjects), it is a simple approach, but with a depth that allows you to go further if you want or leave as is and give a solid education. Didn't know I felt this strongly about MFW. I have been struggling with deciding if I want to order WHL (their 2nd year of high school) thinking that I could just do it myself and make my own schedule. Your post helped me to see that I need to just get it and take advantage of their hard work. Why make myself crazy? :D One other thing, the best thing to do is go look at samples online. But you know that! Good luck in your decision. :) EDIT: See my post #11 concerning my statement on the encyclopedia above. Thanks!

It's a good balance with Exploring World History. Notgrass's book is only in black and white; my daughter 'needs' some color to keep her mind engaged (well, she thinks she does anyway). It has a lot of information too. I would have liked to have read it in 9th grade. :) Actually it was one of the items that worked for us in AHL. Some didn't, but this one was a keeper.

I loved Silas Marner. So many wonderful lessons, so beautifully written. My 16 yo daughter will read it this coming year. I want her to see how this man persevered over great odds, how he loved this little girl he took in, and how she loved him back, never forsaking him or giving him up for a 'better' life. And also how our early choices affect us throughout our lives. Truly inspiring.

I have both sets, the World and the American history. They are different in that the font is smaller in American history, so there is more text on every page. My son took the CLEP U.S. history tests and I looked up a few of those topics and they were in Notgrass's text. So, I don't see that the American history is lacking (and I value Lori D.'s opinion on this and literature ;)). The World History text is definitely for a younger audience. In that, I mean 9th and 10th, not senior high. I too, felt that the bible history portion takes away from the other areas of world history in the 1st book. Greece and Rome were given minimal attention while there's a whole lesson on 'Everyday Life: The Story of Ruth' (and this wasn't even the bible lesson for that week). In the second book, there are lessons on the history of transportation, clothing, eating, and household furnishings. Ummm, I don't think those are worthy of taking up all those lessons when World War I and II are only allotted one week. All that said, I'm thinking that my dd might still continue to use the WH text this coming year. :) I love the way Mr. Notgrass intertwines bible and history with an emphasis on church history, and how to apply a Christian worldview with history in mind.

We are plowing through Saxon Algebra 2 with Mr. Reed's CDs and having finally memorized this help for those nasty tangent, cosine, and sine thingies ("mom, it's not co-ah you dumb mom you, it's caaaa"), I had a good laugh and will pass this on to my daughter. Thanks for posting!

She sounds like my daughter! Loves to write her stories, but is not into writing reports. We tried to do AHL and failed somewhat. She really needed more instruction on writing than they supplied. The lit guide just didn't work for her; she needed daily guidance, step by step each day. But of course, that was probably my fault since she should be further along in her academic writing skills by now. We ended up using an online tutor which, for $150, we did get 2 papers written, but that was a ridiculous amount of money for that. So, now I'm thinking of trying WHL because that uses Writer's Inc. This book has more samples of good writing, even though it's somewhat schooly in nature (many examples of writing consists of topics of and related to participating in a public/private school). But, I'm concerned we will get behind right off with a research paper. Just thought I would add our experience for whatever it's worth. :)

I just got the hard copy of the catalog. Wow, what a change. First off, I agree that the book descriptions were one of the best parts of the catalog. Now it's as if they are downgrading the books, which is like saying the heart of the program doesn't matter any more. The main thing though that bugs me (in regards to the listings of the books) is the horrid, light color font that is used. It is TINY. Even my glasses aren't helping me read the words very well. And how many testimonials do we need anyway? I never read those; they get very tiresome. I am one of the high school moms that responded to their survey awhile back so the first thing I looked at was how they might have changed those cores. I see they added a parent guide along with a student guide. I applaud them in that, but cannot find a cost in the catalog. What's up with that? No prices for a separate IG. It does look like you can order the guides each separately, but there are no prices. What's a catalog without prices? Specifically, I looked at Core 100. The changes are astounding me. First, the main complaint with this core is the lack of high school materials. Well, they have now deleted some titles and added many new ones. I wrote down each title and checked with Amazon, reading the description and some of the reviews. Most of the new books are for ages 9 - 12, quite a few in the $10-15 range. Also, they took out Red Badge of Courage, a book that actually is for high school level and is a classic. They added Their Eyes Were Watching God, one to cause some controversy, I'm sure. AND it looks like there is only one way to buy the core now and that is with the Hakim books. Also, last year, the cost with History of US was $559.99 and this year, it is now $677.99. My, that's some difference. All of the high school cores have gone up, but I don't see any changes in the books used at all (other than Core 100). Of course, prices go up usually, not down! :) The jury is still out on how much better the IGs will be as we can't see them on their site yet. I'm wondering how the whole IG is set up now. Will we still have to move all the pages around or will each week be inclusive with all the info right there for each book used that week? I am looking forward to seeing what the sample pages look like. But I still don't like Core 100 with their choice of staying with books for a younger audience. I had hoped for better changes there. :glare:

Yes, my 17 yo ds (at the time) did not like WH at all and actually didn't even finish it, only getting 1/3 the way through. He couldn't stand the characters, disliking everyone. I told him he needed to have love and lost before he could really 'feel' the book, but in reading your analysis, I seem to have missed the point too. Thanks for explaining the nuances so well. I am going to copy this thread and tuck it into our WH book for when my 15 yo dd tackles the story later.

Loved Villette! A book with a powerful ending. It made me sob. As for Wuthering Heights, it is one of my favorites too. Of course, watching Ralph Fiennes first in the movie is a plus. ;)

I don't know if anything could be as good as Jeremy Brett playing Sherlock. He was absolutely amazing in that part. He lived Sherlock, he was Sherlock. We aren't big fans of the newer Sherlock movie with Downey, Jr. Too Hollywood-ized for us. My 15 yo dd got me hooked on Mr. Brett's portrayal and really, I don't know if anything else will do now. I haven't seen these new ones on PBS yet though. Maybe when they come back with more, I'll give them a try. :)

Oh my, I can barely remember my English class back then! Of course, that was 35 years ago. :) If my memory does serves me right, papers were assigned. I would have written on Farenheit 451 or Brave New World. Those were the ONLY 2 books studied. Yikes. As you can see, not much to remember. I never wrote anything about science, but do want incorporate that into my dd's day. Maybe I can make her experience a bit more, um, complete.:glare:

Here's another link to check out: http://www.degreeforum.net/ My ds frequents this site for help with CLEP testing in general. There's also a Yahoo list, which is easy to find with a search over there. Good luck!

Yes, WHL does go up through modern times, just not in depth like some would want. They use the Notgrass book and that, of course, has a lot to cover in a book with a large font. Don't get me wrong, my eyes love the font, but their American history book has a smaller font and there is just way more in there due to that fact alone. But then again, MFW doesn't use that part of Notgrass. In addition, what the second part of MFW American history covers was discussed in this thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219040&highlight=whl+modern One thing I keep forgetting is that those 'years' are actually ONE year total for the history portion with ONE year for government and economics. Not sure how that plays into this conversation, but I just needed to remind myself on that point! :D Interesting, Julie, since I did not do MFW all these years (and really do wish I had!), I had never thought about the separate years that SL does for those parts of history you mentioned. History is great and all, but like I have said on the SL forums, there is only so much time in the day and history just shouldn't gobble it all up. :)

One thing you might want to consider is in regards to the 4 year plan of MFW for high school. Because you are going to do Canadian history for 12th, some of the world history in depth may be missed. This is done during MFW's American history 4th year. I was told that MFW focuses more on Modern World history along with American history in 12th grade. I had inquired about this because I am a bit concerned about the depth of WHL in matters of world history (and their British lit offerings). I am using AHL right now and am undecided about continuing with their next year. I am also a longtime Sonlight user and my son has done Core 300. Doing one whole year of 20th century made me realize that it is a BIG topic. It is completed in only 10 weeks time in WHL. And they only take ONE week to do both World War I and II, something that really requires more time, in my humble opinion. :001_smile:

You're welcome ~ Enjoy your Algebra journey! :)

No, they do not include everything like Saxon Teacher. Mr. Reed teaches the lesson using different examples, not the same problems as in Saxon's book. He does go by the lessons though so they always correspond. I have Saxon Teacher Alg. I and Mr. Reed's DVDs for Alg. 2. I used to own Saxon Alg. 2, but sold them after hearing the teacher's voice on a demo. I have only watched Mr. Reid's first DVD and did like it, but we have not had to use it since (so far we are doing okay by ourselves). I do wish I had kept Saxon Teacher Alg. 2 just for the explanations of the exact problems in the book. Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out how to get the right solution and that little help would be nice. But that woman's voice was very grating. :)