It cracks me up the way kids always expect mom to have all the answers, even when you weren't there!

duplicate post...delete

The more I think about it, as a bright but young student, if I'd been held back for size and immaturity, I'd be *trying* to convince the other kids that it was just academics to save face. (And would fail miserably at being convincing, as an honors student.) Seriously, if he's already having social issues from being young, having to come back to re-enroll in the same district after being held back for being small and immature...even as an athlete, that will paint a sign on his back that says "Bully me" when word gets out. And his age-peers in the new grade (if allowed to be in 8th) will resent him for still getting good grades, like his age is an unfair advantage (even if he technically ISN'T older due to their late start), and ditto for any athletic achievements made with more years of experience then they have. When I pressed for IEP testing for one of mine with a summer birthday, our guidance counselor harped on this issue quite a bit...that he believed many kids could benefit from a late start, especially boys, and especially (in our case) any child with ADHD or even the social immaturity that sometimes comes with giftedness. Well, nice theory. Wish someone had told us that in preschool. But within the public school system, there really is no good way to fix it further down the road. It's not fair, but that ship has sailed. If you have a surprise pregnancy, feel free to wait six years to enroll your next child in kindergarten. But, I think that even though a few parents in your area have found a loophole via that Christian part-time homeschool academy, I think that it's a very risky undertaking compared to letting your son continue on his current path, developing the strength of character that comes from being the underdog, rather than the sense of shame that comes from going backward. Especially since you are looking for a secular option than may mean doing everything on your own, learning to homeschool when it isn't a deep conviction or long-term plan might be setting yourselves up for a rough year ahead. I mean, we only started out intending to homeschool for a few months, but there was a deep, deep conviction that we needed to get our child out of her classroom asap...so that had an effect on her willingness to cooperate, and my attitude of striving to do the right thing. That dire necessity gave us the strength to push through the bumps in the road, and here we are years later glad that we did. However, I think the poster above has a point about the quality of your year if you're both just doing this as a holding pattern....it's a hard task to undertake well, and takes time to adjust, and I wouldn't do it half-heartedly just based on your husband's "what-ifs," not without feeling 100% convinced that it was absolutely necessary and best. All homeschooling parents have doubts, days when you question whether you've chosen the right path...I applaud you for being open-minded enough to explore this at your husband's request. But the bulk of the burden will be on your shoulders, and I don't think "holding pattern" is going to be enough to sustain you. If there is some personal reason you don't feel comfortable sharing...such as your son falling in with a bad crowd and desperately needing to be separated before he goes too far down the wrong path...then maybe it might be worth it. But even then, I'd look into keeping him on track academically, maybe even going back to work to fund private school, or moving to a new district, but probably not holding him back a year.

Every administration of the PSAT and SAT contains an experimental section with new questions that does not count toward your score. Usually, they're still the same old format with new numbers, just so that future administrations can have a variety of questions and not be memorized by repeat testers, but when there's a major change coming up, they'll reflect the new format. Anyhow, they collect and analyze statistical data on these experimental questions...how many people get them right/wrong? How does that correlate with the real scores of those testers on the sections that do count? Are all of the wrong answers chosen by enough people to not be considered too easy to eliminate? From that data, they are able to eliminate questions that don't pass muster, and are able to rank questions in order of difficulty, and then put together an exam in which the total difficulty is comparable to previous exams, with roughly the same number of easy questions vs. harder questions. Minute differences in difficulty are the reason why the scale (how many questions equals how many points) can be slightly different from one exam to the next. So, if the first administration of the new format is this fall, that means that they've already introduced the questions on exams last year (if not sooner) in the experimental section that didn't count. Different testers would have had different experimental sections in order to compile enough questions to make the whole exam. Until they finish the statistical analysis above to know how statistically difficult the questions are, they cannot calculate the scaled score. I wouldn't hold my breath until September.

I was literally the youngest for years because of moving from a district with a Dec. 31st cutoff to a district with Sept 1st cutoff. The only serious negative was missing the car portion of driver's ed. because the schedule was prioritized by age during the expected grade, and it didn't really fit in my schedule the following year after I finally had my birthday. But, I could have petitioned to take it during summer school, or taken it privately....all it really meant was that I never got called out of study hall for my turn behind the wheel. Other than that, I had friends in my grade, and in the grades above and below, especially on teams and mixed-grade classes such as band, chorus, art, yearbook, etc. I don't think it's always as bad as your dh's experience, even when there is literally no one that age in his class. ETA: Being academically advanced, though....that seems to make some classmates insecure. We didn't have anyone in our school who had advanced a year like that, because one of our guidance counselors pushed against it, but the top students always had a hard time no matter what age they were. Being nearly two years younger would have definitely put a target on your dh's back in that sense, but I think if your son is more average for an honors student, or good enough in sports to earn respect that way, it shouldn't be as bad.

clothespins?

It could be that she had an attitude that day, but one thing I learned working with struggling students is that an attitude often indicates an area of weakness. It's HARD to do something you aren't good at. It's hard to fail, it's embarrassing, it's discouraging, it's fatiguing, etc. Kids put up an attitude as a self-defense mechanism designed to hide/avoid their weaknesses. Occassionally, they also put up an attitude due to what they perceive as unfairness...such as being pulled out of class to be tested, if they were embarrassed or looking forward to some classroom activity they'll now be missing during the testing. But, a three-year delay in skills sounds pretty significant, even for a kid who is resentful of being there. You're not imagining it. (((hugs)))

You should ask the principal/guidance counselor directly what their policy is. Even if you can't see them doing that, we're telling you that some districts will. Better to know for sure before making an irrevocable decision. Maybe they'll reassure you that of course they'd place him in 8th grade. Or maybe they'll be firm on 9th grade no matter what your objections. It REALLY depends on who has the local decision-making power, what the local culture is, etc. Ask beforehand instead of assuming.

The public district gets new kids every year who have moved in from other states, other countries, other districts, even ex-homeschoolers or private schoolers who had a poor educational experience. There is a strong body of evidence against holding children back a year for academic reasons once they've begun school. I believe it even applies to children held back in kindergarten (not starting kindergarten late, mind you, but those asked to repeat K or asked to attend a transitional program between K and 1st, though the transitional programs may be a good compromise to bridge the gap...I haven't read enough of the research on those.) Mostly, the research has focused on academically struggling children and concluded that retention doesn't effectively remediate most deficits, and most children feel acutely bored and acutely embarrassed by being older. The low self-esteem that results from having completely failed and being forced to start over can even go so far as to increase the risk of several negative outcomes, such as involvement in the juvenile justice system, cutting class, continuing to fail, dropping out of school entirely, etc. Therefore, most schools will do everything in their power to promote students to the next grade, offering tutoring and summer school and so forth. At the high school level, that may even include promoting the student on paper, but still requiring the failed classes to be retaken if it's something topical like science or math. This policy against retaining students then leads to the creation of policy to resist placing students below their normal grade level by age. It is ILLEGAL in many states, for example, to place a brand new ex-homeschooler or ESL immigrant into a grade more than a year below their age peers, even if they have had NO prior schooling at all, because it has been shown to result in such poor outcomes in terms of social/emotional effects which then hamper academics...it has generally been shown to be best to put students in their grade by age and just help them survive catching up. So, I'm not saying this judgmentally at all, but just practically speaking, even though that research might not apply to your son given that he doesn't fit the typical profile of an academically failing student being retained, and even though you feel like it would be illogical for them to insist on 9th grade without your son having taking 8th grade classes, it IS entirely possible for them to insist on re-enrolling him with his age-peers, and just hoping that he will catch up on anything where he might be behind. They enroll other students with no prior schooling, and they occasionally allow children to accelerate a grade...your argument that he cannot be expected to do 9th grade without having taken 8th grade stands a good chance of falling on deaf ears, because others before him have done just that and survived. And as you've already illustrated by mentioning that he could simply study different topics for science and history and literature if he were to repeat....nothing in 8th grade is really all that crucial. He'd still have exposure to a full history cycle and science topics in high school, and they don't assume that anyone has already mastered everything previously. They'd most likely put him in 9th, and just make him switch to the lower math track of taking his next math as a 9th grader instead of 8th grader, and maaaaaybe take 8th grade health if that's the year your school schedules it. If you can commit to homeschooling for the whole year, or can find a secular charter that would accommodate your request, I would advise setting up a meeting with his current guidance counselor and principal to make sure they're okay with this plan to re-enter as an 8th grader. I'd also try to check with his coaches, if he plays any particular sports, and maybe touch base with the high school coaches/athletic director, in case they know the eligibility rules better. And this is a lot of work, but, since it's a big decision...I'd try to search for some articles to see whether anyone has studied this trend of red-shirting or granting a gap year in middle school for social or athletic reasons. Besides google, you could also check the ERIC database if your library has it. I'd want to know whether outcomes tend to be any more positive than those for academic retention, and I'd want that information in hand before speaking with administrators who may be adamantly opposed. I have heard positive things, including from guidance counselors, about starting kindergarteners late. It's just really hard to say whether that still applies at this point. And beyond discussing that theoretically, most of the specific how-to answers are going to be specific to your district...lining up permission and finding available options...if you decide that it's theoretically best.

You should probably track down the local people whom you know to have done this and inquire further about where/how. It may be that their children were actually failing, and this was simply a more socially acceptable reason to spread around. Or, it may be that you'll have to use the same Christian school they did, and live in the same district, and hope policy hasn't changed. Your son's athletic skills may also suffer from having a year off, depending on whether there's enough of a private/homeschool team for him to keep playing competitively during such a year. Definitely ask the people who've been there whether they know the eligibility rules for K-8 and for high school, just to make sure this wouldn't mess him up. You can probably google such rules on an official website somewhere, though I imagine it's very dull reading to plow through. In any case, if you can get confirmation from someone local who has gone before you, and your dh strongly wants to do this, I would run it by your son before proceeding. The last thing you want is to face resentment and resistance all year from going ahead with a plan he himself doesn't want, if he feels that it would be too boring, too embarrassing, or otherwise detrimental.

Even if you were to homeschool and declare this to be 7th grade again, if he passed Algebra I well enough the first time, I would move on to Algebra II or Geometry, depending on the sequence your district follows. Math is the most common thing to accelerate, so while he'd be young in his math class the following year, it would be far better than repeating Algebra I...unless he's really weak in Algebra, re-doing a year will likely cause him to tune out due to boredom, and that could defeat your idea of keeping it fresh. If he is really weak in Algebra specifically, I would look for a curriculum that teaches in a significantly different manner, so that it's still at least partially a new approach.

Multiplication can be done that way....put 6 beans or blocks into each of 7 cans, then count them...6x7=42 But tin cans can be SHARP around the rim. I've seen multiplication done with clear plastic cups, not nailed to anything, just lined up on the table and then stacked to put away. If you really, really want to attach them to a board, you could use plastic cans, like Welches brand frozen juice, because those aren't sharp at all. I would probably glue them down with a hot glue gun rather than use a nail, though. Or maybe use a screw instead of a nail. You could also use them for place value, for multi-digit addition and subtraction. But, just plain base ten blocks on a desk would probably work better, because it might be confusing to just put 3 beans into the tens can, rather than 3 sticks of ten. By the time you get to hundreds and thousands...they don't really fit in the cans. You can make cheap base ten manipulatives with beans and popsicle sticks, if you can't afford blocks. Loose beans for ones, a stick with ten beans glued on for tens, a raft of ten popsicle sticks for hundreds (with a hundred beans glued on), and so on. You can also use poker chips for manipulatives once they get the idea...we use Math U See, so I use green poker chips for ones, blue for tens, red for hundreds, to match the colors of MUS blocks.

I agree that further testing is a good idea. There are lots of causes for dysgraphia, and having documentation can really help both you and the authorities recognize that this isn't your fault, presuming of course that you can find a doctor who doesn't automatically assume that you haven't tried. Bring along a list of what all you've done, such as working through WWE1-WWE3, handwriting programs you've used, etc., being sure to mention how long, how frequently, etc.

I pulled mine out of public school around that age because of how poorly they were handling dysgraphia, honestly. Her school OTs were mostly wonderful, but her last classroom teacher fought me on whether or not she could be allowed to type those longer writing pieces that you're talking about. And you know what I found out about them from dd? The first several multi-paragraph essays were "written together as a class." IOW, they hand-copied what the teacher put on the board, entire paragraphs at a time. Her IEP consisted primarily of accomodations...such as shortening what she was required to write, or allowing certain things to be scribed such as essay questions on tests...but because of the 2E issues of appearing "smart enough to do this" and general ignorance or inconvenience, it was rare for her classroom teacher to follow through on implementing those accomodations. Because of the general one-size-fits-all nature of school, other than the OT sessions (which often caused her to miss other subjects), little was done to change the actual instruction to target her weaknesses better. So, homeschooling....give her some assistive technology if she won't let you scribe. I haven't had much luck with accuracy on the Windows 7 speech-to-text, but you can find it for free under Ease of Access. For a better top-of-the-line option, Dragon Naturally Speaking is worth the cost...they recommend the premium version for dysgraphia students, and if you sign up for the newsletter or call customer service to inquire about details, you can get a coupon for about half off. And someone mentioned Siri as another option, if you have a device with that. Back at your dd's age, when everything was handwritten, her written expression was very fragmented and poor like you're describing. As the school diagnostician explained, she was putting forth so much effort into physically forming the letters and trying to remember what they looked like visually and trying to spell...(all of her fine motor, VT-related, and phonological issues at once)...it was crowding out her train of thought as to the ideas that needed to get onto the paper. You KNOW that your child can think and express herself orally in ways more complex than you're seeing in her writing. Once you can get her comfortable with a reasonably accurate speech-to-text program, and hopefully comfortable typing, you'll start seeing her writing quality become more like her oral voice, especially if you've already gotten her in the habit of speaking in complete sentences for narrating with WWE. (No one speaks in complete sentences all the time, lol, but being able to do so when in academic mode without feeling too stifled...that's the key.) Don't forget that you can also enlarge her typed work to any size font if that helps visually. Looking ahead, dd got an excellent score on her standardized testing in this area this year (Language Expression). We've been doing the Outlining books from Remedia this year that Susan recommends for the logic stage in TWM. We also did a lot of sentence combining with Daily Grams a couple years ago, and that helped her expression quite a bit as well. (In retrospect, I might have chosen Easy Grammar lessons instead of Daily Grams, but anyhow...the grammar from that author seemed to help.) We're looking at whether to use Bravewriter materials next, or Writing With Skill. So, all that is further down the road than where you're at with a third grader, but just giving you a glimpse of the future...your child is not doomed by 3rd grade. Once it's all on the screen typed, you can work on the higher order skills of revision...elaborating on details, rearranging to find the best order, evaluating whether details are relevant, etc. That kind of real, individualized work on writing skills is a lot better than what she'd get in ps in most districts, and forms the heart of quality writing so much more than the lower order skills of handwriting and proofreading. There are actually a number of dyslexic authors on the market, most of whom found their own way long after graduating, or with the help of just one supportive teacher after years of school failure. (Your child's dysgraphia might arise from physical sensory-processing issues, perhaps related to ASD, rather than from the phonological issues of dyslexia, but just saying...those authors probably qualify as dysgraphic as well, and probably wrote similar quality work as your dd in 3rd grade.) Listen to some of the podcasts over at Bravewriter for encouragement regarding reluctant/poor writers going through the stages of writing development, and maybe check out www.dys-add.com for more about using accomodations that help a student express himself in writing. That one is more about dyslexia, but since dyslexia affects spelling so severely, much of the best advice on dysgraphia comes from sources on dyslexia.

We did school. We did math on a giant whiteboard. Science experiments/demonstrations. Read alouds on science and history. Kindle books. Having a topic to be learning about helps more than browsing aimlessly, even if it is summer.

Have you tried the resources on the official Scratch site, to look through at his own pace rather than getting left behind in a group setting? https://scratch.mit.edu/help/

It looks like that deal has expired now. It's still $30 after rebate, which is still good, but wow, I would have jumped at $3. I just talked to customer service to inquire about that Basics version. It is compatible with Word, Open Office, and Corelle's word processing (forgot the title). It doesn't have the text-to-speech feature to read back what you wrote, nor does it work with Excell or Powerpoint. So, to add those features, they recommend the Premium version for students and teachers. The Home Version doesn't have them either, but it does have the basic word processing above plus Outlook and some shortcuts (I think that's like telling the file to open and that sort of thing). On some other site, I read that their newsletter often includes a significant coupon. Also, some items were a bit cheaper on Amazon, but beware that they don't provide support for software more than one version ago.

Or alternately, you could browse some of the public spelling lists on Spelling City online, and just do that for free. For my natural speller, I took the lists from AAS and input them into Spelling City. He does their "Teach Me" feature one day, then "Test Me" the next day, and is just flying through the levels we own until I find a level where he stops getting 100% all the time. I already own it for my struggling spellers, and he gets a kick out of having a computer turn and spelling, so it works for me to see that I'm not creating gaps by letting him skip to a high level. I do kind of flip through the manual to see when the next rule is introduced, and tell him the rule before he does the word list on the computer. And I try to do the dictation with him periodically, since that's more of a mixed practice over time. If he started missing older words in the dictation, then I might make him slow down and do more practice for better retention...but so far, he's fine. He did memorize the phonograms, though, so I can't guarantee the results would be exactly the same by skipping them entirely for your child, but that's the gist of how I handle my natural speller without making a mountain out of it. You might be able to adapt something like that with the lists from one of the programs you already own.

I wonder if she might actually like Sequential Spelling. How does she tolerate making mistakes? The whole program is just word lists...every day they start with a small word and build up to a multi-syllable word. There are no rules to memorize. It's just learning via pattern recognition and practice. Try to spell the next word based on the previous word, just trial and error. It appeals to intuitive learners who don't want to memorize the rules and phonograms...I'm thinking it might fit her since she intuitively picked up reading so easily. Anyhow...it's cheap if you just get the regular book, esp. used. It can be made more independent if you get the video. It can be made more expensive if you tack on the workbook to write in...all they really need is cheap notebook paper.

Starbucks is supposed to have good benefits. Not sure how people like it, but they're all over the place.

We didn't get out as much when the kids were as little as yours. I'd look at what you find overwhelming about each thing, and what needs it meets for the kids, and then weigh whether to quit, limit, meet in some other way, etc., so you can tell your dh how needs are still being met. If the mom's nights aren't doing anything for you, I'd skip those, because you're the only one that affects. If your kids are already getting a ton of outdoor exercise with sports, that lowers the need for park days to be the manner in which they meet friends. However, if those are the primary social experience for meeting other homeschoolers, it might help your little extroverts to maintain that connection as they get older and more aware that their schooling is different from their peers elsewhere. Maybe go for an hour or two instead of three, or start inviting their closest friends over for smaller playdates in the backyard after school. Maybe make it a seasonal thing that you only do in optimal weather and circumstances...skip it until temps are back around 60-80, and definitely whenever there's extra like dress rehearsals or VBS or playoffs or whatever....but commit to attending during certain seasons on low-key weeks. Or if there's some other social activity they do that feels less intensive to you...we did co-op around that age wherein my duty was to babysit my own infant and a toddler or two in the nursery. I'm more of an extrovert, so I didn't mind the seasons where it got chatty with more moms in the nursery, but there were several seasons where it was pretty solitary. Our co-op only allowed little ones to be watched in the nursery while a parent was teaching class, so it was nearly empty during some hours. It was still out of the house, but it was kind of a nice break to have the big kids occupied with their friends and get to just sit and watch the littlest play. Or another option around here...there's a drop-off homeschool art class. A lot of parents have a hard time getting around to messy electives like that at home. That sort of thing might be a good replacement for park days where you have to socialize yourself, if there's some class opportunity that you feel meets a genuine need while keeping them plugged into the community, smaller than a co-op and without as much effort on your part. There's a local history museum here that offers hands-on local/state history lessons exploring their artifacts, for cheaper than the private art classes...might even be free...and again, it's not something that gets covered by curricula as often. It's toward the end of the day, but still just for homeschoolers and they do all the work. I'd consider finding just one thing like that for your extroverts to make homeschool friends, after cutting out all the rest of the extraneous homeschool support group stuff.

http://lindamoodbell.com/program/visualizing-and-verbalizing-program Does this sound like him?

IDK, my child that I've tested with LDs actually scores pretty high on grade-level standardized tests. I suppose you might call that 2E, but it's not glaringly obvious. I don't think it's very easy to tell either way from middle of the road standardized scores. From tests that are geared to diagnose learning issues, yes, but kids with mild LDs can pass regular standardized tests and still be affected enough by their LDs to feel bad about school work in general. For example, mine used to count on her fingers to add, then after she got the hang of adding used to add numbers repeatedly in order to do multiplication problems, then used multiplication of the multiple choice answers to solve division, etc., but at all of those stages that she was still passing math tests due to those coping strategies, her dyslexia-related difficulty with rote fact memory that prevented her from doing the problems the straight-forward way was making her absolutely miserable in class. When we took her in for diagnostic testing, they actually checked her memory skills specifically, and wow, there was our explanation for why math class brought tears even though she was capable of correct answers. Her reading issues are different from your son's, so I'll hold off on giving specific examples of what we found regarding language arts, but just saying...getting the diagnostic testing helped us figure out how to help her THRIVE instead of just surviving. I didn't want to just accept those standardized passing scores as evidence of good enough when I knew they didn't reflect the daily reality we were seeing in terms of resistance and time it took to accomplish things.

Try googling "educational diagnostician" in your area. We found one at a locally owned tutoring center. NOT a chain like Sylvan, as they test for achievement rather than ability/root causes.

I'm hoping to hear responses as well. I did purchase the manual when I saw a good deal on a used copy, figuring it would be hard to find again. So, I own it, but I was hoping to read through it this summer before making a final decision on whether/how to implement it.