No, it was not. It is a thinly veiled swipe at others who are mocking a delusion for being exactly that.

Julie, I don't know you, and I don't want to offend you, as you have managed to offend me with this post. However: The answer to that not-so-subtle dig at those of us who find the entire situation of H.C. to be shameful, sad, AND funny (which is where the mockery comes in) is this: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. H.C. had a track record of being wrong BEFORE yesterday. As even a modicum of research would have revealed, if these people weren't aware of that fact. But, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Also, this will probably be hugely offensive to some folks, but it's how I feel: I don't consider H.C.'s followers to be Christians, so much as members of yet another weird cult. They can profess Jesus Christ all they want, but at the end of the day, they put their faith in, and support, and give money to a man named Harold Camping. Many of them sold their families out for him. And that's just another form of idolatry to me. Something else I find worthy of mockery? Shallow attempts at shaming others because they don't share a willingness to excuse people for shutting off the centers of the brain responsible for independent thought.

YES. THIS. But then, I'm a liberal Christian. I have no problem with stories about two people who love each other, be they Christian or not, black, white, striped, gay, or straight. It's not my favorite genre of fiction (that would be sci-fi and fantasy), but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who reads it. The problem l have with romance novels is how poorly written and formulaic some of them are.

djbartch, thanks for linking to that article! I enjoyed it immensely. :D Also, I want that shirt the woman is wearing in one of the pics that says, "King Jesus Returns! May 21, 2011" It's just...the font. And the wording. And, and...it's just perfect. I wants it my precious!!! :lol:

!!!! [self-censored expletive], I missed it! I kept hoping to see some news coverage of some of the followers, just to get to hear why they would believe H.C.

This thread has been very moving to me. Thank you everyone who has offered up honest and heartfelt answers. I'm not sure myself what prayer accomplishes, or if it ever affects God in any way. My own cousin died at age 20 from cancer, after fighting it for 6 years. She had thousands of people praying for her. Now, her mother has breast cancer. I watched weeks ago, as people pulled themselves out of the rubble from killer tornadoes across the South, and couldn't help but feel anger as some of them proclaimed, "God heard our prayers and protected us!," while some of their equally Christian neighbors lay dead beneath the rubble. And then, I think about the Sago, West Virginia miners from a few years back. Remember them? The 13 miners who were trapped, and had countless numbers of people praying for their survival? And how they all celebrated a mistaken report that 12 were alive, claiming that the power of prayer had worked a miracle, until it was found out that only 1 had survived? I think prayer can bring peace, and emotional serenity to a lot of people, myself included. But I don't see that people who have others praying for them are any more likely to survive deadly disasters or mining accidents, or the flu, or any other deadly thing than people who don't. Does that mean I think that people should stop praying? No. I guess I hope that people would simply be a little more...sensitive...to others when they happen to find themselves on the serendipitous side of tragedy.

:iagree:

First, I don't think you were being too sensitive at all. I don't know what it is about some older people, but they get to a certain age, and all tact just disappears. Or they just become plain mean. :tongue_smilie: Secondly, I had my own experience with unwanted comments and unsolicited advice. I got extremely annoyed with how often certain people would tell me that I would regret my birth choices (low interventive, midwife-attended, birth center birth), and that I would change my mind about never wanting or having another baby. I figured it constituted an odd form of cognitive dissonance when one woman in particular, would say to me in one breath, "Oh! The pain of labor made me want to die!! You'll be BEGGING for drugs, GET THE EPI, and wow, hope you don't tear in your nether regions!!" and in the next breath, "Don't worry, you'll change your mind about having another. Every woman who says she doesn't want anymore ends up doing that." Anyway, she and the others were wrong on both counts. My experience at the birth center was extremely satisfactory, and here it is, 8 1/2 years later, and my son is still an only child. So, you know, rude people can shove it, as far as I'm concerned. :D

Right, but where are these people? For all the reporting I've heard about this story on TV and the internet, I haven't seen even one person interviewed who is a Camp supporter. Isn't that a bit odd? I suspect that most of his money comes from disparate followers who happen to be members of countless numbers of churches. Or, they don't even go to church, but have "home church." And, they just send in money privately, in either case, and don't advertise their belief or affiliation with H.C. Which is why we probably won't get the satisfaction of seeing anyone else other than H.C. eat crow on Sunday.

I couldn't say with any certainty why there are such differences between the two groups, without more information. I would caution against making any general assumptions about larger populations based upon such small sample groups. Anecdotal evidence is good for forming hypotheses and postulations, but is considered weak for the purposes of analyzing trends among large groups. Personally, based on my own observations and subjective experience, I believe that a big reason for the decline in writing skills has to do more with a lack of critical thinking skills among most students. And the decline of critical thinking skills is largely due to the efforts of certain groups to discredit the underpinnings of the Enlightenment: reason, science, and philosophy.

Who is "them?" I know Harold Camping positively believed it, but I haven't actually seen identified any of his listeners who actually bought it? All the evangelicals and fundamentalists I know categorically rejected his prophesy based upon Jesus' admonition that "no man knoweth the day or the hour" and all that jazz.

I did not respond. :001_smile: I figure whoever it is probably doesn't want the attention anyway.

I think you should trust your gut feeling. We live in Texas, and have been here since 2006. We refuse to buy in this state. We are saving up to buy a condo in another state, and land in NC, for an investment. I can't say for sure what the best choice for your family, but I will share with you our reasons for remaining very happy renters: 1.) Property taxes are some of the highest in the country. We're talking around $2300 a year for a 1600 sf house going for 120K. 2.) Home appreciation rates have consistently lagged as among the worst in the nation since 1990's. You buy a house here, and 5 years lucky, you will be fortunate if it gains you 5 - 10K. If you can even sell it. Housing values remain depressed because of a, the economy, and b, the trends of communities to allow unchecked expansion. People don't really want to buy an older home (even it's only 5 years or so!) if they can get a brand new home a mere 15-20 minute drive away for about the same price. 3.) Zoning laws here are weak. That's great, I suppose, if you are an avid goat farmer and want to have the freedom to do whatever on your property. However, it works both ways, and you can end up with either private or corporate neighbors who are noisy, messy, etc. My parents purchased a lovely home in 2006, in a brand new community, only to have a gas well rig go up practically in their back yard. They had issues of noise, light pollution, and formaldehyde and benzene gases being let off. This is frequent occurrence across this region. That's a problem if you have an asthmatic child, like mine, who couldn't go anywhere outside the house without wheezing. If you rent, no problem - break your lease, cut your losses, and go. If you own, ugh. Not so easy. 4.) High insurance rates here. Mostly because Texas has a lot of extreme weather, and higher than national average crime rates. 5.) As someone else pointed out, there is a pretty good chance that you'll have renters who will do at least some damage to the property. I have observed that a lot of people love, love, love animals. A lot of Texans will have 2, or even 3 dogs or cats at a time. So you have to be very careful in screening applicants, and if you accept pets, you should probably take a big deposit, based on the way I've seen so many properties damaged and run-down around here by renters. I'm a native Texan, and my dad's family go back for at least three generations. So, I'm not just an outsider dissing this state. There's a lot of things I love about Texas, but unless the property in question is acreage prime land, I wouldn't put my money in it.

I am neither Jewish nor Muslim, merely Episcopalian. However, I've done some reading on this subject, because I was curious as well. From my research, it seems that most Jews consider Genesis not to be a literal account of creation. Only the ultra orthodox take a young earth view. Muslims may take either position; I have seen many argue that the Quran does not define a specific unit of time during which creation occurred. I have also read arguments by other Muslims that take a young earth position. In my anecdotal experience, Muslims would tend to favor the old earth theory.

Here's a sample one from Baylor University for home school students: http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/69395.pdf

I suppose that depends on how you feel about the relative risks of gestational diabetes, if you have it. The one hour test is merely a screen - it indicates that because the level was elevated, you require a more precise test to determine if your levels are actually elevated, and to what degree. Once a diagnosis of GD is given, usually there are dietary instructions given to attempt to reduce the risks above. Therefore, if you suspect you may have it, there is no reason you can't research GD or ask your OB practice for a modified diet plan and eat as if you do have it. Unless there are complicated medical issues involved, there is no harm in adopting the GD diet. This way, you could have some peace of mind while waiting the three weeks to have confirmation or denial of the one hour screen. It is possible that you could have GD severe enough to require insulin shots; but your one hour was not that much higher than the limit. If it was over 200, I'd be more concerned. However, I would probably seek the dietary advice from the "crunchy" providers before you leave, since, to be honest, it is usually these types of providers who tend to stay abreast of the best nutritional research. Generally, their philosophy is predicated upon supporting pregnancy and birth as a normal physiological process, and as such, tend to rely heavily upon a detailed nutritional approach as a way to reduce the risk of a number of complications. Conventional obstetrics will also make dietary recommendations, but these are usually generic, and not tailored to your specific situation. These providers operate (literally) on the premise that if things don't improve, well, they are ready and equipped to intervene directly to resolve the situation. For example: whereas a "crunchy" provider might tend to expend more time and energy attempting to prevent GD from producing a macrosomic baby, the more conservative provider would likely consider that the best resolution to GD, whether it's well-controlled or not, is to increase the number of tests and interventions, up to and including early induction and c-section. As a result, each provider is likely to be more expert in their respective specialties. Anyway, all that's to say that I don't think it's a terrible thing if you wait 3 weeks to get the 3 hour done! :)

I kind of want to cry for her, because she has lost so much. Her mother engaged in typical gate-keeping behavior, and sabotaged her relationship with her father. That loss is devastating, no matter how old she is. Adult or no, she is still very young and now grieving for her brother. It sounds to me like she is quite overwhelmed with everything. She didn't have the stability of a good relationship with both parents, and before she knew it, she's become responsible for herself and doesn't even have her brother with her, possibly the only other person who could completely relate to her position. I'm not at all surprised that she got into drugs and other destructive behavior. Divorce and break-ups of families are so traumatizing to the children. None of this is your fault, Cheryl. You are in a very difficult position, yourself. I think this girl needs an intervention of some sort, that involves counseling from a good therapist. And not merely for a few weeks or months -- something long-term. She needs that to heal from the damage done to her by her mother's assault on her relationship with her father, and from her brother's death. Otherwise, no matter what demands are put upon her, she will not be capable of meeting them. It is like demanding a young bird with a broken wing to fly out of the nest on threat of being kicked out. And yet, she is old enough to do damage to your other "nestlings" and to you. You need to protect your family as well. It is an untenable situation for you and your family, as well as for her. That is why I really hope that your husband and his daughter may consider getting help from a neutral third party, and see a good therapist. Whatever the final decision is, I really hope that your husband is able to preserve some sort of connection to her, for her sake.

We're far from being dissuaded from moving to Canada (well, except the cold -- I will say that's a persuasive deterrent, lol). We're just considering moving to Saskatoon or Ottawa for a time before possibly settling in Quebec. Reason being, that for all the similarities between the U.S. and Canada, of course they are still different cultures and those differences are much more striking between TEXAS and QUEBEC. To put it mildly. :tongue_smilie: I'm really attracted to Saskatoon because it is open to immigration, its economy is doing well, and I'm interested in a graduate program at the Uni. of Saskatchewan. But Quebec is so beautiful and we are very much aligned with the values of the Quebecois. Namely, we are liberal, we firmly support secularism, support egalitarian values, and bilingualism. (Oh, and we love hockey. ;)) The home schooling question is not really pertinent to our decision right now (that's probably sacrilege on this board, lol), because we always intended to have him go back to public school. I'm a big supporter of public education, and Canada's schools are so much better than American schools. I'm actually impressed with much of Quebec's educational system, and if I moved there, it would be with the intent of having my son matriculate into their system. Mostly, what I'm concerned about is how they will treat my son's home education HERE. Texas has virtually no standards -- for example, it doesn't even require that parents teach their children science. While we are electing to use a much more stringent curriculum than what this state requires, I do worry that Canadian school officials will not consider him to be on par, academically, with his peers. I assume they would use some form of assessments or standardized testing to place him?? P.S. I agree that many Americans are loons! My husband and I intend to seek Canadian citizenship at some point. Maybe that will offset the crazy?? :D

I stumbled on this thread really late but... Canadians, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and explanations! My husband, John, and I are seriously considering moving to Canada within the next 24 months. Since we home school, obviously this thread has been very relevant to my interests! We're very attracted to Quebec, and we have incorporated French lessons in our son's curriculum. But, based on what I have read here, and in my research elsewhere, I don't think we will home school in Canada. Although, we will likely move to Saskatoon or Ottawa first, since it seems much less of a culture shock. At least Jackson has the hockey thing down, as he plays for a mite house team right now (Yes, Virginia, there is ice hockey in Texas.) :D But anyway -- mostly, I just wanted to tell you how helpful this discussion has been.

Because private schools around here are either too expensive, or too religious, and the arts and sciences (along with other subjects) in local public schools are being ruthlessly carved out by drastic cuts. Actually, we initially pulled him, due to a medical condition that caused excessive absences. However, we have elected not to return him to public school this fall, because he will be in the third grade, and that means TEKS, TEKS, TEKS. (I take a dim view of test-obsessed curricula.) To put it simply, though, we want our son to have a liberal, worldly, well-rounded education, and that's just not easily found here in North Texas.

:iagree:

Thanks! :001_smile:

Hello, I'm brand new to this board, but I couldn't help jumping into this thread. I'm a big horse lover! Have been since I was 3 years old. My thoughts on the movie is that I have no problem with older children and her husband making some sacrifices so she could pursue her dream. Having carried them, given birth to them, and raised them through their younger years, why shouldn't they have the opportunity to sacrifice for her in return? I don't think sacrifice should be the domain of the woman, alone. Families that share sacrifice and reward alike are going to be stronger in the end. I can't tell you how tired I am of seeing families where the women have been expected to sacrifice and put their own dreams on hold for so long, that their children and their husbands take them for granted, and always assume that their needs are more important than Mom's needs. That paradigm does children a disservice, and I believe, is responsible for creating more than one self-centered adult. I'm a mom who decided to go back to college part-time and finish my degree when my son was only 1 year old. It was possible because my husband agreed with and supported my decision, and so we tag-teamed child care for the last several years. We both are equally important to our son, and there isn't a designated "role" for either of us, except to love our son and care for him to the best of our abilities. Now that I have my undergrad, I have offered to be the main source of income for our family, so my husband can stay home and home school our son, as well as finish his own degree, if he wishes. We both have talents and abilities to offer. One thing my husband can offer if he stays home? Open hockey at the local ice rink. My son plays, and I'm not very good at helping him get all laced up and ready. John (my husband) is much more proficient, plus, he can actually skate and play the game with our son! Our son is being raised to appreciate us for who we are, not what we do. I'm not less of a mom because I chose to finish my education. In fact, he understands that education is very important to our family, and that we support each other's goals and dreams. :grouphug:

...to both this board, and to home schooling. Or at least, we only started late last year. My husband, John, and I have one son, Jackson. He's 8 years old, and due to excessive absences related to a health condition, we opted to pull him from public school. Since then, I have come to discover TWTM through some home schooling friends, and we are in the process of working through Level One. Anyway, we're located in the Dallas - Fort Worth Metroplex, and I'm glad to have discovered this board. Cheers, Rebekah