When DD throws a fit, acts disrespectfully, etc, I send her to the kitchen to wash a dish. Do it again, wash another dish. It gives her a chance to cool off and since she doesn't like washing dishes, after one or two she usually gets her behavior in check. If she refuses to work, she knows she will still be doing the work later when she is supposed to have free time or might miss out on fun family time because she will still be doing work. Most of the time, that motivates her and keeps her on track. A few nights she has had to sit with Dad while the boys and I had fun!

I just got my copy of Science in the Ancient World...I wish I could figure out how to add smileys on the iPad because I would add the happy dance smiley. :-). I like the looks of it. For anyone using Science in the beginning this year, (or maybe anyone who has already jumped in to using Science in the Ancient World?), how long are you finding the lessons to take? I am assuming in asking this that the two books are pretty similar in how they are laid out. The reading appears pretty short in Ancient World (ten minutes per section maybe?), but I am having a harder time guessing about the average length of the activities/experiments.

We use nerf guns for practicing spelling words and phonograms. I write them on cards and tape them to a wall. The student shoots the phonogram and then says the sounds it makes, or shoots the spelling word, reads it, and closes their eyes to spell it out loud. (Full disclosure - I got this basic idea from the Logic of English game book).

Sorry to hijack the 4B thread, but real quick...how difficult does the long division get in 3C? I will be buying it anyway at some point for DS7....but DD has only learned "short division" so far (which can be used only for a single digit divisors) and I want her to learn multi digit divisors soon. It doesn't get into multi digit divisors, does it? If it did, I would get it early for her to take a look at it.

Which book has the long division chapter?

We do review phonograms -- He is pretty good at both looking at the flash card and saying the sounds or answering when I ask, "What phonogram says Ch/k/sh"? And questions like that...it just doesn't always translate into knowing when to use what. Explicit rule review comes up as words are in the weekly list that review previous rules (so, some may be reviewed more often than others), but words are not often reviewed except for the "review week", and that is set up in Essentials to just review the previous 4 lessons (not older words). This is kind of a weakness I guess, especially with younger kids who are less likely to internalize all these words just doing them once or twice in spelling dictation. The word "pink" is taught directly...way back in lesson 1 or 2. He "got" it then and knew there was no g in it. But that was in September...and not having used the word I guess very often since then...It fell out of memory now in late April. The more I think about it, I wonder if in doing the weekly lists, I thought he was remembering "why" we were using certain phonograms and so we didn't always discuss it...but maybe he wasn't really thinking about why and just writing/marking the phonograms as I was dictating...if that makes any sense.

I was considering that...using either the WRTR list or another, and just keep it up the way we have learned in LoE. I think if we did LoE again he would catch it right away because of the big teachers' manual...it's a dead giveaway. ;-)

I agree that is is normal too...just a bit frustrating to figure out what to do next without just starting LoE over again. My DD took such a different progression in her spelling and it has been pretty much steady improvement since we started LoE two years ago, so I just wasn't sure what to expect in some ways with DS. She does need review, but it has been more often quick reminders rather than blank stares. ;-) I'm not really expecting him to apply it in writing - after our break from LoE lessons, I was just asking him some random "quiz" sort of words we have done in the past as a warm up/review... so he was just thinking about spelling those words at that moment. But in not "thinking" much about the rules/phonograms in the past month I see he started to forget. I definitely want to stick with something O-G based and don't want to spend tons of money...are WRTR or SWR better set up for this type of forgetting/needing review? I own HTTS and I think I understand it much better than when I first bought it (pre-LoE), but I still have trouble envisioning how the big lists that it says are for grades "3-12" or whatever for particular rules/phonograms should be broken up week by week or year by year.

I had one of those "slap self on forehead" moments yesterday, as DS7 (1st grader) as he claimed to have no clue when to use c, k, or ck, and wanted to spell pink as "pingk." (This was during a focused time working on spelling and not while writing sentences). While I am not worried at all about his spelling in one sense (it makes WAY more sense that DD's spelling did at the same age), on the other hand, it seems frustrating that he has forgotten these rules/concepts when we covered them last year using the Logic of English Foundations beta test lessons, and then covered them again this year (earlier in the year) using LoE Essentials. He has not retained as much as I had hoped from the last two years of LoE work. That being said, we did not fully implement Essentials this year. DS7 had the patience for 5-10 words per day, so it took us 2-3 days to get through each list, and was not very receptive to dictation sentences or even a real "spelling test" on the words for the week. We made it through lesson 26 before taking a bit of a break to focus on learning to write in cursive (at his request). In general, his writing abilities have increased, so I have no doubt he could handle 15 or more words dictated in a day starting now or in the fall. But when I mentioned that maybe we would just start back at the beginning of Essentials again next Fall to really master those rules and phonograms (he does pretty well with most of the phonograms, but has often known the sounds and not when to use them). And that idea of starting over was NOT met with a happy reaction from DS. So that leaves me not quite sure what to do. He clearly hasn't retained everything taught in Essentials, but I don't want to make him feel defeated that he has to "start over" in spelling, and I don't he is ready to just do the alternate/advanced lists either -- some of those words are pretty hard for a 2nd grader. Ideas?

My non-typers tried it and were frustrated even though they knew how to spell the words they were trying to play the games in. I have found it to be very valuable for my DD this year though. We are working through the LOE advanced lists this year. I dictate the words and we review any rules/phonograms on Monday. Tuesdays she practices on paper by copying the words again, saying them out loud while she writes. She plays games on Wednesdays. Some are more helpful than others, that is for sure. Thursdays she usually does a practice test, to elimate words already learned. Then Friday she will practice the missed words again and just test on the missed words. Any words she misses a second time go into a queue for the next review week. There are usually 5-8 missed words -- typically the hardest words from the list or more obscure words (for a 4th grader). I bought the premium membership because it tracks for me which words she misses on practice tests, actual tests, etc. Before we had the premium membership I was trying to track that manually and it was a nightmare. This has been a great way for us to track what needs to be reviewed.

LOL...My two year old is constantly chanting, "let it go! Let it go!" with a slight amount of tune. :-)

DD and I read Grammar Island and are almost finished with Sentence Island. We just read through and did a few of the exercises and 4 level analysis samples together, but I didn't buy Practice Island. If we are going to continue with MCT in the fall with the Town level, do we need to do Practice Island before doing Practice Town? Or would what DD learns in the other Town books be sufficient for completing practice town?

This is similar to what we are doing. We can get through most lessons in 4 days, spending 15-20 minutes per day or sometimes less. She can do much of it on her own. A few of the lessons are much shorter and only take 1-2 days to finish. We're just about finished with the 2nd book. My DD had done very little formal writing before beginning W&R. She isn't necessarily pencil phobic but has never really liked writing a lot. She had major spelling struggles in 2nd/3rd grade so we put our focus there instead of writing, and this year was the first year that she was really ready for a formal writing program. Without previous experience doing narrations, she has jumped in just fine with doing the ones in W&R. Most of the assignments are pretty easy for her -- we've just hit a few toward the end of book two that produced a few tears. I guess I am glad it has been relatively easy, since it is building her confidence.

Those are some good things to think about...When I asked her the other day why she wanted to learn a language, her response was something like, "I don't know, it just sounds like fun." She has no clue about high school/college requirements, and I am not sure she really knows what her goals are. I am more trying to decide between just letting her do Duolingo when she feels like it and calling it good until high school...and actually buying a curriculum and spending 20-30 minutes a day on it as a school subject (or maybe something in between). I don't want to spend 20 minutes a day for the next 3 or 4 years and have it not go anywhere in terms of meeting requirements. Maybe I am too much of a pragmatist, but DD only has so much patience for formal school subjects, and I want to put it to use in the most useful way possible. We have the most potential access to a native speaker in German -- neighbors across the street are a bilingual family, and the kids are in German immersion school. We hear their family speaking German all the time, which is I think what gave her the idea to want to learn it herself. I don't think they are interested in any formal "tutoring" with her as their family is quite busy, but she would have some opportunity to practice, at least at the moment. Based on our potential plans and what I know of their plans as well, I can't say that it is likely we will be living right across the street from them for all of her 4 years between now and high school though.

I'm trying to figure out what direction to go for the next couple years with foreign language study for DD. She has never had any interest in studying Latin...so as much as i would like to start there with language study, I don't think I can persuade her to try it. She has been telling me for over a year that she wants to learn German, and that Spanish is her second choice. We are not planning any foreign travel in the next few years, so "usefulness" of the language is not a top concern. If we started studying German or Spanish next year (when DD is in 5th) could I expect that possibly she would be able to test out of a high school level first year class? or progress even further than that? (Aka, would she be able to take a German 2 or German 3 class at a local high school in 9th grade?). Or would language study in 5th-8th grade more likely be "for fun" or for general enrichment, and she would still essentially be a beginner in terms of a formal high school level class? I am sure what materials we use would make a difference, but I am not sure I want to invest big bucks or a lot of time into language study if it's unlikely she can progress far enough to even be able to skip one year of high school language. Any thoughts?

There are a lot of threads here with people debating the pros/cons of CC (here is one really long one). CC isn't something that appeals to my family, but I know a few families who do CC (not a ton -- it is not super popular in my immediate area), and some really do like it. But I think I would want to suggest to anyone considering it that they read the pros/cons and see what their situation is like locally. Not all co-op require you to teach -- the co-op my family has been a part of for 4 years now pays a few parents to teach and usually hires a couple outside teachers, so all parents (usually the mom, but some dads) assist in a class, but not all teach. Our co-op meets twice a month for an afternoon, which has been a perfect fit for our family. From what I read on here (and from hearing other real-life friends' experiences), co-ops vary widely so you definitely need to do your research. Besides asking what responsibilities you will take on during the co-op meeting, it's also wise to ask what responsibilities you may have outside of the meeting. One local co-op here requires moms to be a part of multiple "committees" to plan parties, programs, field trips etc. For one friend that turned out to be a big reason she left the co-op -- the committee meetings and responsibilities were taking too much of her time. Definitely check out other social options too -- there are "field trip groups" in our area that just do field trips and lots of ala-carte classes...that requires so much less commitment, but I know from having multiple ages of kids myself, it can be hard to find ala-carte classes that work well for all of my kids without going at too many different times. Good luck!

Here are a couple you could check out: How to Teach Spelling by Rudginsky and Haskell and the Dictation Resource Book by Susan C. Anthony -- there is also Spelling Plus by the same author, though I see people on the boards mention the Dictation Resource Book more often.

We have had the most success with Logic of English. This is one of several spelling programs that take a phonogram-and-rule-based approach to learning spelling. This approach to spelling makes sense to me because it isn't just about memorizing random lists of words, or learning some rules that may work some of the time (but not knowing why to use the rules or when to use them). We started out trying more of the "learn a few rules and study some random lists" method with DD, but it was clear pretty early on (by late 1st or early 2nd grade) that it wasn't working for her at all. She was retaining virtually nothing from the spelling instruction and her spelling was so "invented" it didn't even make sense to her (much less to me) when she tried to read something later that she had written. I knew we needed something different, and I heard about LoE around the time I was getting more desperate. It has been awesome for her over the past two years -- she is still not an awesome speller, but we have seen steady progress. Some kids don't need such an intense method of spelling instruction -- some kids (apparently) do fine with random lists, or are "natural spellers" who barely need a curriculum at all...and there are other approaches as well (Apples and Pears is one that uses a whole other approach...which I can't remember the name of). I think in some ways you need to try something that makes sense to you and fits with how your DD learns (does she like to write? not like to write? like to play games? etc), and be ready to switch if it isn't working or no progress is being made.

Since I have never heard of either Freckles or Limberlost before, what exactly is the connection between the two books? I read the descriptions on Amazon, but it wasn't immediately obvious to me which character(s) were in both books or what other connection might be there. My DD really liked "Girls Who Looked Under Rocks." :-)

I agree that rules need to be stated up front. I teach a class at our co-op that has had 8-9 students the past couple years. The kids are 1st - 3rd grade...so a bit older. One parent helper is nice (sometimes students do need help with cutting/pasting if the activity is complicated, and it's nice to have someone else to help with behavior problems so I don't have to interrupt my lesson), but i could manage without it I think. Maybe the teacher is okay with the kids eating in class or bringing toys? Or she isn't too concerned with the behavior you find disruptive? I can't imagine if I had kids in my class that were really behaving badly that I wouldn't at least discuss it with the parents. Is there a policy as to parents staying on site during classes? If I sign my kids up for a class that I am paying for at a non-co-op setting though, you better believe that I am going to leave if it is permitted. If some/one of my kids is in a class, for me that always means i have one or more younger kids to entertain, and usually that is easier done not in the hallway outside a class. If you are paying for the class, then it isn't "free babysitting" -- or is this somehow not a class you have to pay for? I guess I don't understand what a home-study charter school is -- is it actually a free class paid for by a school? Other than a co-op (where it seems like it would be expected for parents to help/be involved) most other kinds of classes part of what you are paying for is the instructor being in charge of your kids for that amount of time -- I don't expect my kids gymnastics or tae kwon do instructors/coaches to need my help -- I expect I am paying the club/studio to have enough staffing to cover whatever the needs are in the class I am paying tuition for, and to tell my kids (or me if necessary) what rules should be followed.

Homeschool co-ops often have talent shows or other performances. DD has done a dance she created and played her guitar at those. My boys read a poem they wrote together at the talent show this year. As others have mentioned, private music lessons usually have recitals. DD has been invited to participate in more than one children's choir, but we haven't been able to make it work with our schedule. She does guitar and a recreational gymnastics class. The boys do tae kwon do twice per week. Between those extra curriculars, co-op and church activities it keeps us pretty busy. We really like the opportunities the co-op provides for some of those group activities like the talent show, Christmas party, valentines party, group field trips, "expert day" (kind of like a science fair, but projects on any topic), a "geography challenge", book reports, etc.

I decided to buy it anyway for the iPad...DH totally enabled me on this one. He has read about the app and thinks it is cool...he says to me, "Don't you think those developers deserve the $6 for this?" :laugh: The three big kids all love it. I didn't think my five year old would necessarily "Get it" as he is not very mathy as of yet, but he loves it too!

Oh, I must not have had enough coffee yet...I just realized the title said "kindle"...duh.

Not showing up as free for me...I wonder if it was "yesterday's" app but it just hadn't changed over when you posted. I'm hoping that somehow later today it will still show up as free for me!

I am more reading this thread for entertainment/information as I don't have an informed opinion about High School really, yet...But I did feel the need to say that my high school biology class involved no dissection what so ever. I don't recall many labs at all, other than one involving making sauerkraut. I did dissect the requisite frog and worm in 7th grade in a different school district. I also had an excellent chemistry class with a real lab and a physics class with an okay lab...in which the instructor pretty much wanted to guarantee an "easy A" for all the students by giving away answers for the tests while we were taking them. :thumbdown: The result (not just of this...but of my so-so math education and my general ability level in math and science) was that I "failed out" of engineering by getting a D- in the first physics class for Engineers...but then changed my major to English and easily aced every class in that major and loved it. I don't think I was really cut out to be an Engineer in the first place though, even if I would have had better math and science in high school.