I always sang You Are So Beautiful To Me by Joe Cocker :) Hopefully without quite the croaky voice, but I don't think they would have cared.

Unfortunately all within the realm of normal teenage behaviour. Not healthy, but normal, in my understanding. My 15yo son is not that bad but ..well, I wont go there but it was a wake up call recently. I also think a lot comes down to relationship. The thing I would seriously be dealing with immediately is the fire lighting behaviour. I have been struggling with 2 things with my teen boy who I love with all my heart. As in- which way to go. Do I keep getting stricter and stricter? Do I clamp down, cut out TV time, computer time, social time? Or.....do I keep building the relationship and keeping the communication between us very open. The thing is, he talks to me. He told me things he has been doing that I wish he wouldn't do- such as getting drunk- but he is TALKING TO ME. That is an incredibly valuable thing. If I take what he says and use it to punish him- I immediately stop my son from sharing deeply openly with me. He wont talk to his dad. His dad and him yell a lot- but they are getting better because I help each of them understand each other. So...I decided to only deal with what is happening in the house, and to monitor anything I feel is dangerous out of the house. I am very alert to teens drinking and driving and I make sure i am available if I think it is likely. We have a no alcohol policy at home, and i encourage friends to come here. But they dont always. But i am not going to use what my son tells me to punish him, whether its pot, alcohol or girls. I am putting relationship and trust first. and letting him have as much freedom as I can, while at the same time dealing with the behaviour at home that we need to deal with- such as leaving incredible messes, not doing homework, not doing chores. Those, I can crack down on because I am not betraying the trust he puts in me. Sometimes kids are crying out for stronger boundaries- I know that, and i understand the OP's son might be. He might also have the wrong friends- I watch that very closely too and it makes the whole difference. But also...I need to let him go. I am not a parent who wants to push my beliefs or my values onto my kids- I live them and they know it- and my kids both have a very strong wild streak. I have to let them go. Smoking pot is very common here. I am far more worried about the alcohol, but I cant control it completely so I am not going to keep my son at home under lock and key. I am going to keep talking, though. I know other parents who have taken the strategy of allowing alcohol at home and I can see why, now, though I have judged it in the past. Dh is an ex alcoholic and wont take that route, so that I am living with. I know other parents who share pot with their kids. We dont do that either, but we used to smoke too, in our youth. It's so hard...but I think it is very, very important to keep connecting, keep talking, and forgive, stay open. DH totally disagreed with me for a long time and his relationship with ds was terrible. He was authoritarian, punitive- and ds just withdrew. I stayed open, communicative, and as non judgemental as I could. I listen- a lot. I only shared certain things with dh- and I told dh why. His way wasnt working. He is slowly changing, less reactive, more communicative, more willing to say yes than no all the time. Home life is much, much easier and there is far less conflict. Thats my sharing, for what it is worth. I was a wild teenager too, and so was dh. I do wish my parents had set better boundaries but I also wish they had managed to keep talking instead of freaking out and judging- it was way too late by the time they decided to crack down. It didn't help- I just withdrew and ran away. Teens are young adults. They are immature but they are real people, not objects we can control and manipulate. We have to meet them where they are. It's been such a challenging journey- and my son is only 15! It may get harder. But I know keeping my heart open and keeping the communication open is the right path so far- even though my teen is not behaving how I would ideally wish. At least he will listen. I have influence. And he knows he is very, very loved. I asked advice from a loved, wise mentor about this issue with my son recently- and she very strongly advocated the path I am taking. I was ready to keep him home on lock down and withdraw all privileges. I am so glad I didnt take that path beause I woudl have betrayed a deep trust between my son and I. However I am not saying what is right for anyone else.

A basket in each room. When they get full, they go to the laundry to get washed, hung on racks, dried, taken back to room. Washing is done by the person so we skip the sorting. The only people who have overflowing laundry are the 2 teens who are still learning to remember to take the basket to the laundry when it gets full :) We also have a large laundry basket in the laundry itself for bits and pieces, towels, sheets, kitchen towels and things that are too weird to wash with other stuff like shoes. A towel per person per day? Dogs in beds? I would be working on laundry prevention.

Its so difficult to know - it might be a step forward for these particular women, as Heather suggested. ALso...they are in a country where the economic situation is such that leaving a marriage is probably usually unthinkable, because you would then have no one to support you, and your kids, or you would lose your kids as well. That really puts a different slant on marriage, when you are pretty much stuck in it for life no matter how your husbands treats you. They might actually be getting something good out of the fresh approach :) maybe its not as selfless as it seems :) I have certainly seen similar conversations on these boards, though, over the years, from conservative Christians.

I heard its one of those things you do as you get older and your peers start dying of old age :) No, I don't read it, but then I don't read the paper anymore either. The people I care about who might die - word of mouth will get the message to me. am part of an extensive grapevine. I don't find it morbid though :)

I would leave others to themselves. Think back 100 years when 14yo kids had finished school and were out working all day. I think we underestimate our teenagers. And I have NO problem with a divorced mum learning to have fun again with her girlfriends while her almost adult daughter takes care of herself some of the time. Thats a long, long way from neglect, and quite possibly setting a very wonderful example to her daughter. Life is not meant to be sour or completely self sacrificing. Joy is allowed.

I have had mine go a bit slimy- the kefir goes thick and slimy. I read to jsut put them in sugar water for a week to rest them and it worked well- no more slime. BUt then it happened again a few weeks later and I havent revived them since- they are in the fridge. My favourite secondary ferment is to blend with blueberries and coconut sugar, and strain.

Although I do try to use whats in the pantry, and we do eat leftovers- we have a back up- they are called our chooks! So it doesn't feel like so much of a waste to throw leftovers, if they pass the 3 days in the fridge mark.

I think its normal to do more when there are babies and small dirty kids around. I would say we would do half a dozen loads for 4 of us. But ds can go weeks without doing a wash before we notice :) Everyone does their own washing- I would do 2 loads for myself, dh might do 1 or 2, the kids one each, one for the linen. OK, maybe 2. Fairly large capacity machine though.

My dad used to be conservative, my mum liberal. I think my mum is much more liberal, and my dad maybe fairly liberal nowadays. Both are greenies- dad becoming more so as he got older. I am liberal. My mum is much, much more politically savvy than me though. Her partner (not my dad) is quite extremely liberal and very politically aware and it has influenced my mum considerably. I have a bunch of hippies as parents, although I didn't grow up that way! I love them for it.

Always left, probably haven't changed much but if anything, even more left. Which isn't to say I agree with everyone left's policies at all, but the general direction, yes. I am not sure what that means in US. terms, though or what the key issues there are that define one one way or the other. Here, for me, it is environmental issues mainly that provoke me to voting for the more radical left. I guess I am pretty socialist too, though, although I am really not that interested in politics.

Yeah, but someone is making money out of it, that's for sure.

I have a default because it was how I was brought up- a protein (meat, soy, lentils, nuts), a carb (mashed poatatoes, roast potatoes, rice, bread, pasta), and vegetables (usually salad, sometimes something like steamed vegies). So it could be meat/soy pattie, mashed potatoes and peas/salad. Pasta with pesto (has basil and walnuts) and salad. The fruit is always the main in between meal snack.

We give the kids a fairly substantial amount of pocket money- $20 a week each- and have done for years. They also have part time jobs that we organised for them. We want them to have plenty of money, we want them to learn to manage it well while they are still with us. If they don't have a decent amount of money, they can't learn properly to manage it. Both are out of the house now and in the way of many shops each day- it has been a hard lesson for them this year, when they have less time to earn money than when they homeschooled, but they also have a lot more opportunities to spend it, daily. They now know what it is like to run out of money. Our approach is not to encourage entitlement and not to encourage a poverty mentality, either. We want them to feel they can have what they want- but realise that they may have to prioritise and work for it and save for it. Its all been pretty organic and natural. We are 2nd hand specialists- and the kids know what things are worth, and love to shop 2nd hand. That has meant they have many, many things their friends do not have because they bought them on sale and/or 2nd hand. Designer clothes, accessories etc We encourage a sense of abundance and fun around it all, not poverty, because we think that is a healthy mindset. The financial environment you are brought up in creates a certain mindset that can either work for you or against you later in life. We live in abundance and we teach the kids that we live in abundance. But we don't borrow, we limit credit card use to paying bills, not luxury items- we only spend what we actually have. I think its how you actually live that will have the most impact on your kids. I remember my parents being fairly abundant with me too. And dh too- we both grew up in middle class. But we don't have a borrowing mentality- and my parents didn't either. They saved. We save. And we teach our kids to save. Its not really difficult.

Agreeing with the above. But also...I suggest just trying without it for a while. I also took it for about 2 years, and the change was so strong, but then I felt to go off it. My understanding is that it can build up in the body. I just stopped using it- and honestly, I didn't need to take anything else for a long time after that. Either it was still in my body, or it had done something to balance my hormones that lasted beyond taking it. The next thing I would try, though it chaste tree/vitex, which has a similar progesterone enhancing/hormone balancing effect.

Denise, you did start this thread saying you don't think you over reacted but asked for our opinions anyway, as to whether we thought you did. It seemed you wanted some other perspectives but you kind of had your mind made up already. You then dismissed pretty much all the opinions where people said they felt you did over react, or they would have handled it differently. We only had what you wrote to go on, and from what you wrote it did sound like you reacted out of an angry and upset place, and many of us would have handled the situation differently from you, or would have liked to, anyway, even if we can relate to your situation. I just feel the way you responded to many posts here seems to me that you dont really appreciate the opinions people have, even though you said you did. I dont think anyone meant anything bad or judged you as a bad mother or attacked you or unreasonably took what you said out of perspective, even though they might not have taken what you wrote the way you intended it. I truly would not make such a fuss out of it- and I would drop it quickly, and I do not have such a big load around the "lying" that you do. I encourage my kids to tell the truth, I don't focus so much on the lying. But that's me. But you did ask, and we did offer, from our own perspective, given what you wrote and how we naturally responded from our own experience and what it seemed you were saying. I guess I didn't feel I was received graciously, or that other people were received graciously, even if you didn't agree with us. We don't have to agree- you feel you responded just fine, you didn't over react- but you did ask what we thought. We have all been in similar situations and have to evaluate our parenting strategies repeatedly. I guess it takes a certain thick skin to handle responses here sometimes, but I really think if you ask such a question its good to be able to handle a different opinion or perspective than your own. I really don't think anyone was heavily judging you, although if you are feeling a certain way I know it might feel that way. Kindness was meant, opinions were offered with good intention, and I feel you maybe took our responses too personally. I am not sure. No harm was meant, in any case.

Well, if you see my answer in the other thread, I think its a totally wrong way to think. I look from the perspective as a planetary citizen, and I see we are already given clean water, fresh air and healthy soil, and the knowledge to live well on this incredibly beautiful planet. And we throw it all away- we poison our water and air and soil. We have wars. I come from the perspective that we aren't really entitled to anything- we are given it freely and abundantly by life herself. Its our job to manage our resources - so it's about being intelligent and responsible rather than self centred. Its about being caretakers instead of thinking we own the planet. I dont think entitlement is a healthy way to think at all. Yet we have everything we need- whether you are in America, Australia, Africa or India. The technology is there. But if we wait for governments to change and take care of us- well, the planet wont be livable for our great grandchildren.

Me- not generalyl because I still like getting up around dawn. I am a morning person and if I sleep in, I feel I have wasted the best hours of my day. I let the kids sleep in much more, though. Which gives me even more time to myself. But- it is my joy to do that. If it was work, or discipline- I would allow myself to relax and sleep in.

I remember you very well, MFS. Welcome :) And now I remember your loss, and I have tears. Thanks for being yourself.

Are you aware of the Flylady system? I have used that as my basis over many years although I fall off the wagon more often than not- at least I know very, very well how to get back on. I have a morning routine- getting dressed, making my bed, putting away clean dishes, swish and swiping the bathroom. A before bed routine- which Flylady alway says is the most important of the day. We always clean the kitchen in the evening. She says to put out clothes for the next day- sometimes i do that. I do write a To Do list for the next day and have anything ready for going anywhere. Once a week you do a House Blessing which is a very brief pick up, dust and vacuum of the whole house. Then, its Zones. Every month there are 5 zones- Entrance/DIning, Kitchen, Bathroom and one other room, Bedrooms, and Family Room. You spend almost a week on each zone, but only 15 minutes a day cleaning/decluttering in that zone. You start with decluttering in that 15 minutes. When that is done- however many weeks or months that takes when you are in that zone- you then move on to deep cleaning in that zone. in reality, for example in my bedroom zone, I might spend day 1's 15 minutes putting away clothes and tidying the room, day 2 dusting and vacuuming, skip a day or 2, and by day 5 I might rememer to go back in there and go through my wardrobe and cull some clothes. But that is after many, many decluttering sessions already. Its a good system and it works. I pretty much do do it but not rigidly. I do keep track of the zones through my calendar so I can glance and see what zone I am in and go and put some extra attention in that zone. I think one of the reasons I don't do it rigidly is that...I have my routines so inbuilt nowadays I don't really notice that I am cleaning- I make my bed, do dishes, pick up, dust, vacuum, and I have spent years decluttering.

Its a secret that the author put in there because some people are on doctor's recommendations etc to eat more than 3 meals- but he doesn't recommend it for everyone. The reason being- well, most of us don't need to, and it makes us think about food too much- and most people will naturally eat more if they eat 5 times a day. I don't do it. I think the best thing for me is allowing myself to get hungry between my 3 meals- and I think thats also when the weight loss happens- especially between 6 pm when I have dinner, and 8am the next morning when I have breakfast. If your stomach is always digesting, when does your system get to burn existing fat? I thought my blood sugar would crash, but if I eat enough at meals it doesn't- or I have the next meal a bit earlier and eat more. Thats the trick- eating enough at meals. But for some people, 5 meals might be a cutting back from permasnacking. Or just what their systems need for now, like Jean's. I dont hate food at all. I am grateful for it.

I always think deep life lessons are best taught from a patient and well considered place rather than an over reactive one. Two wrongs- lying and then a mother losing her temper over it- do not make a right. But to me, losing my temper with my kids automatically puts me into self -reflective ode in how *I* could have handled the situation better- and my behaviour is ultimately all I can be 100% responsible for. Teaching a child a lesson is great- using anger to do it is generally not, even though we are human and do it sometimes. Owning our own issues can help a child deal with theirs because they see our humanness and our courage. It also seems to be just common sense to avoid putting a child with a weakness, in the way of temptation - such as to lie. When I want to give up chocolate, I don't keep it in the house. I don't leave it around to make myself stronger. I avoid it. It is part of an intelligent approach, not an avoidance of the whole issue.

I used to live well before the poverty line and on welfare, have even been a street person, and i never considered myself poor- but I did feel it was somewhat of a choice, since I was young and I felt it was just a stage. In other words, I didn't feel trapped there- I was optimistic about my future. Feeling poor and being poor are 2 different things. Being really poor, is struggling to feed the family properly and keep a roof over their heads. Feeling poor is having to downsize against your choice, being in debt and feeling trapped, unable to service the current bills- that sort of thing. Maybe having to sell off things to pay bills, work 2 or 3 jobs. That's relative to how you are used to living. We are feeling poor right now with a huge slew of bills we werent expecting (house repairs on a rental) that we don't have the money to pay- but after selling some things, we will be ok, because we have back up. Being poor is also having nothing to fall back on except, I guess, welfare, opportunity, and the goodness of other people.

ALthough you aren't to eat between meals on the no s diet- there is no restriction on the number of meals you eat per day- so, if 5 meals is your thing, that the number of meals you eat- but nothing between those meals.

We have excellent schools. Ds was completely neglected and had lost all self esteem by age 7, in grade 2, because the bright kids- especially some of the Asian ones- were so advanced in their reading and writing by that age, and he wasnt, he felt stupid. The teacher focused on the bright kids. There were 6 boys in that class who were like ds, and the teacher told us mums to work with them at home because they had problems ad she didnt have the time to give them the attention they needed. Thats when I pulled him out to homeschool him. Now in year 10 he is back at school. Still not a great student. Still finding some things difficult. But he needed to go back and try again. Great school- one of the several top state highschools- but ds is not a great student. He is trying though. I haven't read the whole thread but i am sure others have already said homeschooling is about more than the academics. It is a great lifestyle, it fosters family closeness (and i believe school is by its nature divisive to families), it allows for many life experiences that are not normal such as travel, field trips, following of passions- and it allows you as a parent to have a lot of influence on the character issues your child inevitably faces. There is a window of time for having a major influence on character- and by the mid teens, I would say that window is closing.