My advice would be to not worry about mental math yet. Just keep working with hands on supplies. Every problem you have her do, use a manipulative---every time. Practice counting up to 100 or more too. Instead of giving her a 100 chart, give her a blank one and see if she can fill it out. Give her a blank addition chart and try to see if together you can fill it out and notice the pattern. Use the number line too---I found the number line one of the best things I used with my son. Especially if you could connect a little story to it---"grasshopper" jumps or "frog" jumps. We would have number line races too. My 8 year old struggles a bit with math but I've managed to keep him at grade level, more or less, depending on the math topic, and he didn't start doing mental math until 2nd grade. And it was this past summer that mental subtraction clicked for him. I just kept the hands on supplies (c-rods especially) around and let it develop naturally.

Someone mentioned that c-rods were the best thing since sliced bread---I agree completely---100% We love those things. If you buy an intro kit then it comes with a pamphlet that explains how to use them, with various activity exercises. This is what I bought at first and then I got more and was given more at various times. If you have more than one kid you definitely want a lot of them. :) I found that little pamphlet explained them better and had clearer illustrations and diagrams than I could find in Miquon Lab Annotations. The more a kid uses them, the more they internalize the value. We've worked out all 4 operations and fractions with them. I honestly can't imagine life without them. In 1st grade they were out every day, then last year they were used to explain new concepts (mult. and div. and fractions). This year they have only been pulled out for a quick review if it was needed and I suspect we may pull them out periodically for more mult. and div. work. Definitely a "required" in every math manipulative kit!!

I'm using Easy Grammar with my 3rd grader and I'm really liking it. I like the simple and few explanations :lol: Anything more wordy and my kiddo would be lost in daydream world. His constant interruption is "okay okay I got it" and he usually does. I like it because it's visually clean (no over stimulation) and has just enough practice that he's learning but not getting bored with it.

If he wants to memorize the facts but doesn't "get it" as you say---then I would say a program like Miquon would be great for him to start. Using the Cuisinaire rods would help him get it. You could also look into Primary Analogies for him---seems like you have a kid good at the memorizing so a logic type program might pose a good challenge.

Just agreeing with the other poster that I wasn't impressed and liked real books in my hand as well---didn't say anything about the "honesty of currclick"

I'm having a hard time with Ancients as well. Want to finish it up this year. We got started on it late. I think most people start it in 1st grade maybe, but we just started this past summer. And we're not where I would like to be. My 4 year old likes it more than my 8 year old. He doesn't mind the narrations, especially if I let him draw a picture as well. I have to direct what he writes quite a bit....he seems to struggle with getting thoughts down on paper. He's a grammar whiz, but getting those thoughts in his head into a coherent sentence is something else. Even orally. Share your thoughts on how you're going to make it a blast. I find that by the time I've read a section then the next time we read he's forgotten the previous. And the literature selections haven't been much of a hit either. He's not one for non-fiction. I like SOTW, but I feel like it's a drag too.

My 8 year old (PDD-NOS/SPD/OCD) with dyspraxia was struggling with math. Using the Kumon books has helped a lot with his math---he needs it repeated over and over. Same with literature ---he really has a hard time retaining things, so I repeat lessons and read alouds etc again and again. He struggles with fine motor skills so it's odd sometimes that we're doing a lot of 3rd grade subjects but I have to insert PlayDoh and work with dressing skills and other manipulatives (scissors, staplers, pencil sharpeners, hole punchers, glue , tape) into our day. HWT is our numero uno choice for handwriting, We love Sequential Spelling because the dailiness of it appeals to that ocd side of him. Activities from Out of Sync help and are fun for everyone. Limiting the amount of media he is exposed to helps tremendously. My 4 year old gets wacky if the TV is on longer than an hour as well. Keeping his "seatwork" short---letting him bounce on a ball while writing helps. Keeping to a regular routine each day. Karate class and yoga (at home with me) helps with the dyspraxia a ton. I like books that aren't visually overwhelming. Some cutesy pictures are fine---but too many and my son is beyond distracted. He learns better by doing or writing. If he has to listen too much then it doesn't work. I'm struggling with SOTW for this reason. I can't just let him have freedom in his reading selections either---or he would read the same thing over and over. He can read very well, but his anxiety and ocd keeps him from taking the risks. So sometimes I have to just give him Trumpet of the Swan for example, and just say "read it"---he usually is nose deep in whatever I give him by the first chapter.

My 8 year old has been in speech a few years (mainly for pragmatics and prosody) but also to work on /th/ and /l/ and /r/. He doesn't make an /f/ sound though---but a /d/ sound and only in certain words. He will say "thirty" just fine but will say den-then and dat-that. He'a actually coming out of this quite a bit and I foresee the day he is only having pragmatics help in speech. Our therapist said the same. It couldn't hurt to get an eval. The right speech therapist can work miracles in a short time.

Congrats! I agree with everyone---treat it as you would any new baby coming into the family. There may be some upsets, but think of everything your children are going to learn about Africa, culture, family dynamics, adoption etc. Read and play games with your little ones and everything will balance in the end.

I haven't read the entire thread---but wanted to chime in that I have looked at currclick and used some of their free resources---not even worth the ink to print. Others may have found some good stuff---but that is one homeschooling site that I personally have not been impressed by. I like real, in my hands, books too!! :D

I have a "mathy" 4 year old. I do a lot of hands on things with him. Pattern blocks, attribute blocks, homemade Montessori materials, (number rods and spindle counting sticks), lots of math type games (dominoes are a hit), we play with poker chips in endless ways, we use those little colored bear family pieces. he has a few Kumon books --My Book of Numbers and My Book of Number Games. We do Family Math games. He practices forming the numbers (and letters) with various tools---wipe off markers, crayons, pencils, in playdoh, etc. At 4 and even 5, I personally keep kids doing a lot of hands on stuff. If your kid is saying "2 things and 2 things make 4 things"---then he is adding kwim? I personally don't believe that there needs to be a rush to bring in the abstract numerals or symbols at that age. Especially not until a child can write them with ease. My 4 year old can do multiplication. He'll count like this "2 and 4 and 6 and 8" but I'm not going to have him learn his multiplication facts because of it.

I try to make our mornings short and sweet. I have a 3rd grader and a 4 year old and a 15 month old to handle. So i can't have wasted time in the morning or the day gets lost. Math, language arts (grammar, spelling etc) get done in the morning. There's a nap for baby, which I try to get the other's to read or at least let them free to do whatever quietly for that hour 1/2. Then afternoons we do read alouds and our science unit or SOTW or Writing Strands---depending on the day. I also alternate weeks. A week of technical language arts skills followed by a week of literature studies (exceptions are spelling--we use Sequential Spelling--so that's daily). I also try to leave time for my kid to do what he likes---he asked for more Grammar last week---so some other things got pushed aside and we worked ahead. I do something with my 4 year old everyday---but twice a week for about 2-3 hours---I concentrate on him. He has been doing science and SOTW with us though. He's happy to participate in the activities and coloring pages. ;) But what people have said about working on yourself first is very true. If I don't take the time to eat, shower, get dressed---feel like a real person instead of a maid, school teacher, waiter in pjs (kwim?) then I'm very grumpy. As far as dealing with attitude from the kids---whew!--that's a hard one. I want my kids to love learning---so if it feels flagging I will take away the things that hinder it---media is usually the culprit. And sometimes some good old fashioned "it's good for you to know how to multiply, you will be happy later that I made you do this, trust me!" :lol:

I second the Living Math program. We've used these booklists for a few years now. "Living math books" basically means reading a book about math---making math a literary exercise as well. It could be reading the Math Start books with a little one, or reading biographies about mathematicians, or reading picture books such as How Much Is A Million or Math Curse? Just taking math out of the compartment of textbook and workbook and practice sets. Those are important too of course.

Yes I do want to avoid an evolution discussion as much as I want to avoid a crationism discussion. mommymilkies you have shown RSO to me :001_smile: and I've looked at their website. The evolution is in the next level---which (personally) causes me to suspect all of it. But if that's what you want and what others want, then it fits for your family. I couldn't use it. I do want a secular program but not a unit on evolution or an evolutionary agenda. I don't want to use the first level and then have to switch to something else later. The fact that the authors have it in the next---including the "evidence for evolution" makes me personally uneasy with all of it---same as my uneasiness with religious publishers curriculum. I haven't found any secular programs except RSO or Singapore or rs4k---those are the only ones I know. Except supplementary books and websites and unit studies. I don't know about Singapore but I don't want to use it for other reasons (just not really fond of the Singapore materials). And this is why I didn't want to do this because I knew everyone would want to defend it---when it really doesn't matter what people choose or choose not to use. :) A lot of people feel uneasy about rs4k---but having spent the last few days looking through all of their books online, and other websites as well---I feel good about them. The word "design" doesn't bother me a bit. I use a unit study approach anyway and I think they would be good addition to that method.

I would do my best as a parent to protect from that level of falsehood. Co-ops can be tricky places. :tongue_smilie:

We do Miquon and Kumon for the extra practice. I incorporate fun games from Family Math or Scholastic books. I have Living Math but rarely get to it---we do keep up with the reading list though and I really like the Baltimore lesson plans. I'm toying with the idea of adding MEP. Next year we will likely start Saxon and Key Tos...as well as the Miquon and Kumon.

Apparently from their link there is a unit/chapter--including "evidence for evolution" And that was the original alarm bells in my head. It feels like more of an agenda imo. Phrased in that way. Again let me stress that this is my personal feeling regarding this---I don't want all the RSO users to suddenly jump on me just because I've looked at this--heard about it--and decided not to use it for my own reasons.

http://www.pandiapress.com/?page_id=82#level2 okay---since it was what the original poster was asking to begin with. A lot of people use this and I don't want to offend anyone---what's right for some is not right for others. And that's completely fine. But the emphasis on evolution is why I (personally) chose not to use this program when I first starting being aware of it. And I guess this brings us right back to the original question of the main differences between these two---topic of this thread.

The term "secular" assumes evolution--especially in science. Others may disagree but that's my point of view. And let's get this straight, I'm not a Creationist. But that's the whole point of a secular program, right? My Freshman year Biology text had a chapter on evolution---that my teacher skipped just to save himself "the grief" as he called it. lol Now I know what he meant. Usborne books make evolutionary references, DK books make evolutionary references. If a book touches on origins or prehistory even and doesn't explicitly state anything from a creationist or ID point of view---what other view is there? Evolution I've never seen a "hypoallergenic" science book. Even rs4k can't claim that. And that's mainly my point---personal philosophies cannot be separated from science. Never has been---even the scientists themselves bring their baggage to their work.

Yes actually I do remember the book. Which is why I choose not to use it---even though it's quite popular. But here's the question-- why does it matter what science book I don't want to use for my own personal reasons? So people can jump to defend their use of it? Why does anyone feel the need to defend anything they choose for their own family? And why do I have to explain my decision to use or not use it? I agree with Penelope---it does permeate everything---the same creationism permeates the other side. And I've got nothing against any of that honestly....but one of the things that has struck me in my reading of these rs4k texts online---is that there is nothing at all even hinted at what people are saying. Whatever her personal associations or beliefs---the science books seem quite good...and visually engaging. I'm not making this about evolution/creation etc. I think the original poster was asking a very straightforward curriculum question. And when even homeschoolers jump to join the science curriculum wars---"mine is better" "no this is better" "this author is associated here" whatever---we're no better than Texas textbook sellers. It's the antithesis of the spirit of homeschooling in my mind. If a family wants to use Apologia or Answers in whatever---then it's their choice. If they want to use something more secular...their choice. I personally don't agree with the tone of those books, but other families have those worldviews. Another quote from Keller: "Unless one side can actually silence the other (which I hope won’t happen in a society that values free speech), science and science education rhubarbs will continue. There will always be opposing viewpoints and, like it or not, these squabbles are what push science forward. Let’s face it, there are at least a few problems with Creationist arguments, some serious issues with Intelligent Design, and a few holes in the theory of evolution. Far from being a tragedy, it’s a great opportunity to utilize the differences for new scientific discoveries. It really won’t hurt to examine all viewpoints, and there is no shame in questioning the veracity, predictability, or falsifiability of each. If we don’t teach our kids how to question, doubt, examine, evaluate, and explore all sides of any argument (scientific or otherwise), and if we shame them when they disagree with our conclusions, we fail to to help them develop their most valuable resource – the ability to use opposing models to creatively solve problems." I definitely agree with this. I chose homeschooling for the tremendous opportunity it afforded me to teach my kids to think for themselves. I don't care what homeschooling science "program" or text or curriculum anyone chooses to use. Because no one is homeschooling my kids but me. I don't understand how a author could be a damage to my children when I'm the primary education facilitator in the homeschool. These arguments about authors and their philosophical leanings are the very attitudes that get books banned, burned , or at the very least censored. It's very really simple. If you don't like the author or the text---don't buy it. But I honestly want to know what good it does anyone to argue or defend their use or non-use of certain materials? I feel like I've spent entirely too long reading the threads in this forum about this issue. I don't see how she's attempting to indoctrinate anyone when there isn't a smidgen of religious material in any of her books. How in the world can a chemistry text--for example---indoctrinate anyone? People feel offended that she says "neutrality" and then feel she means otherwise---that is illogical considering that her motives are completely subject to interpretation only. Someone posted that the word "design" in the text is no big deal. I agree. If a kid asks what that means----that opens a very wide door for explanations. Whereas most homeschooling books assume one or the other of the Big Two answers... evolution or creation. I believe there's a thread about dissatisfaction with science---I could just copy and paste this there. Because these "science wars" and "secular" vs. "religious" blah blah blah----turn me off so completely to nearly every homeschooling science anything out there. I applaud Keller for attempting what may only start what a previous poster called a "witch hunt"---from both sides, likely! I feel she's actually reaching out to people of various faiths/beliefs...personal or otherwise. At the end of the day---I care very little whether a child is learning science from rs4k or RSO or anything else. I'm homeschooling my children---and that's what I care about.

I'm not trying to start a curriculum war---just saying the secular books I've had a chance to glance at (and no I won't name it because it would just start a curriculum war lol) was a bit much IMO on the evolutionary side especially when dealing with taxonomy. My personal feeling---my personal preference.

You're right---not quite a complete science. But I'm liking what I'm reading online so far. The chemistry/physics/astronomy stuff alludes me---so I would see this as wonderful unit studies of sorts and reference materials. I've always found science curriculum a bit too one way or the other---too heavy in evolutionary theory or too heavy in Christian religious references. Or just plain schoolish text boring. And it's a bit time consuming to search out activity books etc to pull together your own science curriculum. Which I have been trying to do. The use of the word design doesn't bother me. There are people out there who believe in a designed Earth or creator but who are not Fundamentalist Christians. They are pricey though---so the search is on!

http://rebeccawkeller.com/education/just-the-facts-please Thank you!!! I have been struggling to find a science curriculum that would fit with my family's worldview. I have considered this---but have been under the impression that it may be too Christian-which we are not But we're also a very spiritual family. The idea of a science curriculum written from a ID perspective intrigues me. And it appears from this blog post that she is not a young Earth-er or Bible literalist. This discussion seems odd to me---considering that SWB is very open about her religious beliefs and has even bemoaned the publishers attempt at neutrality in her book on the WTM website. One question to those who use S4K---is there any references to verses or Biblical figures etc.?

:iagree: They said it better and I would just be repeating it! But also think about this---how much math does an 8 year old even *need*. If we really think about it, maybe they can learn it when they need it---but that begs the question---will they be able to learn it when they need it? I think we educate children when they are children because they are capable of learning it---and the more opportunities we give them, the mor echoices we give them as adults. I know very little about K12---but if it's not something that is working for you---maybe think about changing the math curriculum. Which I think would mean quitting K12, right? But also---I do very little math in my day to day life. Dealing with money and teaching my kids is the extent of it. But I've had to call on higher math skills at random times---fixing things around the house, building a sandbox or backyard hockey rink, playing Legos with the kids, cooking, even just understanding something I've read or heard with pleasure (pleasure because I could understand it).

Good suggestions---anything Cynthia Rylant is a hit in this house. Even for read-alouds with my 4 year old. Nate the Great series and Ricky Ricotta are favorites. My 8 year old reads them to his younger brother. Love Lane Smith. My son just asked for a second James and the Giant Peach because he wants the one with Lane Smith illustrations. I'm looking for the Oliver Moon---sounds like something my kiddo would like. I also wanted to suggest Books Kids Will Sit Still For. I absolutely love this book. You would have to try very hard indeed to NOT find a book your kids would love in this resource.