Bet that made for some interesting conversation around the dinner table, huh? ;) I love the idea of such a personal experience with differing points of view. It's a lot of work, showing one's children how to love someone with whom you disagree. Hooray for your parents, Priscilla. Awesome.

inciting riot ;) , I'd like to make a couple of general comments. Maybe just one. I'm finding it alarming that there's rather a lot of knee-jerk snark available when we discuss hot-button issues. Not that I'm here all that regularly, not that there wouldn't or shouldn't be plenty of emotion, passion, etc. when addressing Big Issues Which Hit Us Where We Live. People should absolutely be informed and have strong opinions which they can coherently defend (thus our presence on a classical ed board). But. Whether we find ourselves on the left, the right, or even lost in the middle of a particular minefield, making sweeping generalizations about the opposition, our leadership, news sources, and the like, puts us in a position to further marginalize those with whom we disagree. It allows us to make those people faceless, less than, and therefore to discount their opinions and circumstances without bothering to examine them. And when we see folks whose opinions we do not share as somehow not human, as entities to be feared, we tend to lose our collective grip on all sorts of other social niceties as well. It's been bothering me. It seems to me that it misses the mark we're shooting for -- here especially, a place we come to hang with people who more than likely own at least a couple of different logic texts :rolleyes: and are teaching their kids formal Logic too. As well, kudos seem in order to those amongst us able to consistently present their arguments well, with depth and breadth, and without rancor. Thank you -- I very much enjoy reading varied opinions. "The tolerance taught by rhetoric involves the student's holding on to his own deep, well-reasoned convictions, while simultaneously treating others with respect. Respect doesn't mean admitting that someone else is right. It does mean refraining from resorting to abusive fallacies and the rhetoric of propaganda so that those of different faiths [political understandings] can seriously and peacefully argue about ideas." --TWTM, pg 577, pp 6 Thanks for listening. Love y'all. :D

Tess, I'm so sorry. As others have said, don't change anything. Unless he's indicated that he's out and not coming back, in which case you might be able to change the locks -- depends on your state. Find an attorney, post haste, and confirm that. If you 've been homeschooling, then that's the family standard. Courts are reluctant to change the family standard just because one member of a family has lost his mind. There are a pile of really good books out there, most of which are tought to read because you already know most of what they have to say. Too bad one cannot impart wisdom through application of heavy tomes directly to a person's skull. That would be spectacular. PM me if you like. Hugs to you and yours.

Me too. I sat my kids and the bare minimum of equipment we must have to travel with us every day in a Pilot -- the back end area is a joke. We'd not have managed even a grocery store trip with it. The Odyssey has been so super. Fits everything, all of us, plus luggage/equipment for SN. The back row is comfy, too. It is *fantastic*. And? It goes when I put my foot down. :D

Tap, I think of you and your family often. God bless you all.

You could probably make it into a casserole -- add chicken and cheese, maybe mushrooms, some parsley, garlic, onion, whatever, and bake til bubbly. Bet it goes quickly! :D Or we could install worm holes between all our houses so that the next time someone ends up with macaroni salad to feed the multitudes (or baked beans or bread or fifty pounds of potatoes...), we can pop in and out and share the wealth! ;)

Medicare currently shows 4% of costs going to admin., whereas private for profit insurance shows 20%. These statistics are alarming, but they don't even begin to tell the whole story -- or even ask the right questions. What about those who don't fit into the citable stats? What about the fact that some sort of restructure *has* to answer appropriate reimbursement for providers? We seriously cannot continue to lose good primary care providers as they go into other fields just so they can meet their office overhead -- because their staff of five billing specialists in a two doc, two PA office can barely keep up the ongoing argument with the insurance companies. There's much to question and very little solid, calm, factually based information to be readily had. I've found particularly enlightening reading about experiences of those in countries other than the US. Thanks, Julie, for initiating this part of the conversation. Very nicely said.

Respectfully, I don't think anyone is looking at a single provider system. Medicare/medicaid surely aren't that. Could you clarify?

Jumping in to say: I think she was commenting on the realities of such a system rather than endorsing them as her own. Interestingly, there are those who think quite the opposite would happen because so many simply don't seek care now -- they can't afford it. Perhaps such a system would suggest something like carrying individual catastrophic care policies ($10mil limit per person) while simultaneously making sure that benign ovarian cysts that can eventually kill someone would actually get removed, or that a parent who sees something alarming in their child wouldn't wait to go in until they're in crisis.

Way to go!! I'm always energized, reading about your family's progress and adventures -- sorta gives my spirits a boost, I guess. :) Good for you, dear. Continued thoughts and prayers. :grouphug:

Libraries are air-conditioned. Wet heads of hair at bedtime help my kidlets sleep when it's hot out.

I agree. Thought this was interesting: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile2.html#stats His testimony before Congress: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/potter_testimony.html Video clips concerning the same: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html Veddy, veddy interesting. I tend to be suspicious of endorsements and wish mostly to hear things from the horse's mouths, so to speak. It's imperative that each of us pay attention and form opinions on the facts, as we understand them, rather than on inflammatory rhetoric and lies. For example, I've reinforced with my kids that every time they hear a campaign ad, they need to find out who funded it. Not just the name of the organization, but where the actual cash came from. It's my experience that nine out of ten times, "Consumers for _______" are funded by shadows within the wildly wealthy industry most likely to take a hit as a result of that particular piece of legislation. (We've particularly enjoyed the Art of Argument with this -- lots of good info to use as a springboard with the punkins.) It would be nice to not be paranoid, yes? ;)

If you can't get the ortho wax to work, try some from Walgreen's. My mom used it when one of her teeth broke and it stuck much better than my son's ortho wax did. HTH -- hugs and empathy to the one with the sore mouth. And his mama!

Since gaining my second born, I've had to reframe much of my parenting. This one is often contrary because she was born that way. When I've been most able to sit back (emotionally) and lead our interactions with empathy, these are the times we've had our very best interactions. IMO, among the benefits of being the grown-up is having as my very own experience that emotions can and do sometimes overwhelm good sense, making it difficult for even the most self-possessed among us to be gracious. So... I would sit with her, maybe in the dark, because kids spill all kinds of stuff when they don't have to look at us, and ask, oh so quietly, if she's okay. Even if she's cranky at first, I'd give her at least twenty minutes with me asking leading questions (maybe make a list before), so I could get a solid grip on her state of mind. There's a big difference between a kid who needs help handling the enormity of hormonal heck and emotional immaturity, and one who is really working, with intent, at being the hardest person to deal with. Sometimes, that one I mentioned before can be hard to read that way. Thus my advice. ;). So far, what I'm seeing is that she still needs waaay more calm and sorta oblique input from me than one might think a kid this age would. Or maybe one might expect exactly this much -- maybe more. Anyhoo, it's reinforced for me that anything I can do to keep our relationship from becoming adversarial is a good thing. Especially if it means that we get those "teachable" moments covered. JMO, YMMV, yadda yadda. And hugs and prayers.

1) what's homeschooling like in WA? Are there strict requirements? Or? Required testing yearly starting in second grade -- they don't care to see it, you get to pick the format, then have it done and keep it on file. "Register" intent to homeschool with the local district yearly -- a one page form = free fair tickets. (ha!) 2) is hsing accepted in WA? Or is hsing considered totally fringe? Easy/hard to find groups to socialize with etc. Both accepted and totally fringe. :D Lots of co-ops, field trip groups, some Y and other programs cater to homeschoolers. 3) do you happen to know anything about working for the Swedish hospital system? Good or bad to their people? I know someone who has and loves it. (PM me if you want more info. :) ) 4) Anything you want to tell me about the weather would be helpful. I tend toward mild depression, but on Welbutrin life is great. This time of year (today) is mostly sunny and about 72. (Don't tell anyone. ;) ) The weather is weird in June -- June gloom burning off to 70's, but then that happens in SoCal too, just with higher temps. Generally it's between 75 and 82, once in awhile up to the 90's, starting July 5 and lasting through about early October, with the occasional day of rain or clouds thrown in so you don't get complacent. The first frost is around 10/31, with occasional sprinkles of snow during the winter. The "gray" thing is a pain, but it sounds like there's some research linking that to low Vit D levels -- so a good supplement is a must. There's a nice stretch of warm and sunny in Feb, then more in March, April, and most of May. Do PM me if you're looking around more. The people in WA are *so* nice. :D

Just a couple of quick thoughts that have been helpful to me. First, thinking ahead when it begins to become obvious that you're about to enter a power play of any kind and discovering the solution that will allow your child to save face -- this lets you both off the hook much earlier in the interaction and keeps her open to further expansion of character originated by you. Second, my brother's first word was "no." It was just the beginning of a very long and argumentative road for us all. But he has grown up into a solidly ethical engineer who is much sought after **because** he is unafraid to speak the truth and stick to his guns, no matter the consequences. And one more thing -- look around for info on the Anterior Cingulate Gyrus and... Shoot, the name of the other structure escapes me. Anyway, people who have a hard time letting go of a topic often have disregulation of electrical activity there. It's the brain's transmission and if it's out of whack, you won't get to move on easily. Also, from a brain function class I took years ago -- look up stuff about people who live in their limbic system. The limbic system is usually the seat of sort of unreasonable emotional response -- it will push and poke you until you agree to argue and "come live with it." If that area is overactive, good luck getting anything done! :D Those things have helped me to unlock myself from the emotional response that *I* have to one of mine digging in their heels as though their lives depended upon it. :glare: HTH some. :grouphug: "We are all in this to-gether..."

So incredibly illegal. Oprah highlighted this several years ago (back when I was watching, heh), with DAs who were cracking down. Not long after that, a friend invited me to join one. I consulted my husband and he said no way. I was glad to have his opinion to use when turning down my friend. ;) Ick.

Having not read your OP, I'm just going to throw out a book title that my mom found helfpul when dealing with her FIL, my grandfather. :) The Thirty-six Hour Day, by Peter Rabins. It's addressed to caregivers for people with Alzheimers. Hugs to you. I'm sorry things are hard.

Amen and amen. It may seem far away from where you are, but having some answers and ideas when you find yourself near the end of your rope is akin to popping your head above water, gasping for air, just before you start to black out. Really. :grouphug:

Violins for between $40 and $70. :D

You are not a bad mom. You are exhausted. You need some respite, some outside support, some help of some kind. Do you have family or a church family you can call on? Are you involved with therapies or support networks of any kind? You NEED this. It is not a sign of weakness to be unable to manage every little thing, or even all the big things. Without care and kindness we devolve into a blubbering mess. It is nigh unto impossible to make sure that we have opportunities for care and kindness when we're all about making sure that the very dependent ones in our care remain alive and safe. Those bottom lines, alive and safe, are well below what families full of neurotypical kids have has their bottom lines. And dang, is it demoralizing to think about. I would strongly encourage you to seek some help for yourself in the form of meds, counseling, a support group, or coffee **ALONE** once a week. Identify what you need and if you can't, get someone to help you. Then get that thing or things that will help you feel less wiped out. Your punkins need you, yes they do. Most of all they need you healthy and whole, not merely physically present. SN kiddos are a special kind of exhausting. I would also strongly encourage you to find out what services your child and family are eligible for. There are a gazillion well trained, smart people out there working their tails off for SN punkins. OT, PT, Speech Path folks have awesome ideas and connections. Start there. You are one person, one awesome mama who is giving everything she has. Still, you are one person and you need not to be daily depleted to the point of tears/despair/any level of hopelessness, even temporarily. PM me if you like, we can chat more. :grouphug:

Hmmm... Sounds almost like a compulsive thing to me. Have you noticed anything else with her that might jive with that? Also, if she was fluent at one point, whether or not she's looking compulsive in any other areas or like she's flaunting rules or whatever, it would probably be worth it to delve a little deeper into possible (and relatively benign) neurological possibilities. In other words, there's a pretty good chance that this thing that's making you crazy is developmental in nature, not moral (or at least mostly not moral ;)). I think it's important to keep the lines between the two kinds of issues very clear in order to maximize the opportunities for progress and minimize any further graying on your part (she says, with feeling and empathy). If this is making her in any way nuts or she realizes that it's really not normal but is unable to change it, or she seems convinced that she's normal and doesn't see what the big deal is, even after extensive explanation and examples from you, having some outside help can really assuage the emotional piques for you both and then you get to just move on. Hugs. (passing the hair dye)

Such a compelling story. I was sad to hear of the damage the whole situation did to the relationship between her and her kids. If I remember correctly, they were still in school when she went on her adventure. It sounded like a traumatic thing for all of them. I was sad to hear of her death.

Jo, I think she has major wiring issues. She's probably easily overwhelmed because not everything's firing quite like it should. Sensory stuff, time management stuff, all kinds of things goin' on in her head that are just very different from how your group does things. Neither is objectively bad, just truly different hardwiring. Blessings on you as you enjoy her for who she is. Certain interactions I've had lately with certain relatives of similar description have left me with my eyeballs rolling crazily around in my head, so I'll be quiet now. (Except to say that I don't think this has anything to do with being ladylike. She might need more calories or something to increase her stamina, though.) Blessings, dear. :)