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Can anyone share their knowledge? It's on our list 🙂
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Aside from the fact that I was sincerely asking a question and not making a point...
I agree- every kid should do what feels right to them as long as they are really growing as people and growing towards maturity and independence. I suspect personality and family dynamic has SO MUCH to do with that, that there are many varieties of how that can play out not just two, even. (could go away but stays home, and maybe should stay home but goes away, there are also a thousand other possibilities, such as gap year, Peace Corp, Military, delayed graduation, CC-transfer, etc. etc.)
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54 minutes ago, RootAnn said:
I hope you don't mind, CT, if I toss something completely the opposite to your OP points.
Say you have a kid who shined in multiple ways from a young age, overcome personal adversity, and shown incredible leadership & drive in community-changing ways. So, they have multiple different measurable accomplishments that set them apart from most of their peers.
What if they stay at home, go local, and for whatever reason don't leave the area? What if traveling cross-country (or cross-globe for the study abroad types), separating from their family, and attending a university that would (in many minds') offer more job opportunities isn't their desire?
Is that a shame? Is it regrettable? Should that young person be made to accept the idea that staying local is somehow 'less than'? That doing amazing things up until now means they have to leave to fulfill some imagined destiny?
I see this as a sort of reverse image of the could-leave-home-but-has-to-stay hypothetical. It is the wants-to-stay-home-but-everyone-wants-them-to-leave situation. It is the genius kid who goes to the state school instead of an Ivy or prestigious LAC. The star athlete who decides to attend a college that doesn't have their sport. People tsk-tsk, whisper their "what a shames," and talk about the what-could-have-beens.
The situation in the OP is different, but I reject the assumptions in both hypotheticals. If the theoretical teenager in the OP stayed at home (unwillingly), I believe that they could still be stretched, experience novel adventures, and fly if they were encouraged to see the shiny side of their situation. Just as I believe that the second young adult could shine if forced to leave home. But, I accept that letting the first kid leave & the second kid stay are in these hypotheticals, perhaps the better option for them because desire is a powerful motivator.
I am confused, because I was not making any point. At all. In the OP at least. I was just asking how people go about it, what their ideas and experiences were, how it works for them etc. I am a leader in my local community and people come to me with questions about a variety of topics. It's useful for me to really understand all sides of how things can be done, all the options and how that goes about.
As an aside, if something happens to change our situation and my dd were to come home or ds back home, I'd still be glad that I had thought about this topic and have useful answers to people.
I was not "making a point" somehow that kids can't stretch their wings at home, or learn to be independent, etc. I just want to understand the ways to do that, and also how to get a chance to do those life changing things that are especially exciting that do not happen in one's hometown. I just don't have a lot of experience with young people staying at home in my own family. Myself, brothers, sisters, step brothers and sisters all of my so far grown nieces and nephews on every side, either went to college, enlisted in the military or (what is becoming less and less frequent nowadays due to higher COL), moved out. My family has always been big on grow up and get out and it's worked pretty well all along, so it was a sincere question. The few that have not pushed their kids to grow up and get out had pretty bad experiences...so that's also there. But that was not the crux of my question. It was equally three part.
And by stretched I don't just mean learn independence, I really mean get a chance to do amazing things and not feel left out. That's the question I have. "gets a chance to spread their wings and experience new opportunities "
I just don't know how a question ended up being thought of as a statement shaming people ??
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I'm sorry for misunderstanding!!! Thanks for clarifying! Puffy heart!
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7 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:
While I don't feel obligated to provide the live away experience for my children, and their choices are very limited by finances, I will admit that it is our strong preference for our dc to go away for college. I do think there is something to going away to take the next steps in maturity and independence for my kids or at least the two that have graduated high school so far.
We have a local Christian U that my dc attend for de. It is fantastic for de, but would not be a good fit for a four year school. We have a local cc that I am not impressed by. I think having an nice, affordable, nearly open admission local university option perhaps drives down the quality of the cc. With a four year school affordable and commutable those diligent students some see at cc would probably be at the university here in town. Teachers, too, maybe.
It's hard to even put into words why we really wanted our kids to go. The first one is easier, I guess. He was ready and there just were no opportunities here similar to what he could access if he went away and had scholarships and aid that made it an easy decision. The second ds. Well, he is less mature, and less studious (though still ahead of average kids and his local peers). He just was always kind of a tough, learn the hard way kind of kid. Good kid, no real trouble, but parenting was always more challenging. It just seemed like he really needed to make a change to continue to grow. I think staying here would not have been good for him. He was totally unchallenged by his de coursework at the local U and had he stayed at home and commuted there or to cc, I think he would have just lost direction and possibly quit. I think he would have been surrounded by peers who were not moving forward in life and that wouldn't have been helpful. He really seemed to need to go somewhere else, do something different, and do something hard. I don't know what personality trait that is that needs to have hard things put in front of him, but that is how he is. The challenge keeps him focused. When things are too easy he flounders. He still has to learn the hard way and he makes his share of mistakes, but he does seem to learn and make different mistakes the next time. LOL
My next ds will go away to college. He wants to, he is ready, and he has the stats to make it work financially. But if he had to stay home I think he would do great anywhere. I think, even, at our cc he would just put his head down and do his best and do everything he had to do to be set to transfer. My oldest likely would have, as well. But that second kid. I don't how to explain it. There is definitely some amount of money it was worth to send him to live away. So, personalities are a factor. I am glad we were able to find an affordable option away for him,
This. Sometimes there are just reasons.
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Fuzzy, I usually enjoy your comments and your logical way of viewing the world but I feel like you read something into that that I did not say or ...idk...something seems a little off putting about your last post.
My kids are leaders in their personalities, at work, healthy responsible and great decision makers. Well thought of EVERYWHERE they go. At work, at school, at community college, at church... My dd was one of only two 15 year olds on staff with an entire team of college age people, running a big customer service situation and handling up to 5K per day in her till. They loved her there and she had "work friends" who all greeted her warmly....
They are just too cozy at home with us, to branch out into clubs and activities here, and the opportunities are sparse for the types of things we are seeing my son has opportunities for, at a huge university setting (or even a medium one)...
Maybe I am just not communicating something or maybe I made the mistake of once again sharing specifically when it would have been better to be silent.
I feel like it's a bit rude, for you to insinuate that we are looking at a total train wreck or a false start just because our kids enjoy being at home and therefore do not branch out as much while here.
And many kids are super social and all into clubs and activities and also have a total train wreck at college, so I cannot see the correlation there at all. People are ready to launch into the college world when they have the responsibility to make right decisions, make their own schedule, choose friends wisely, prioritize their time, keep to a budget, and a schedule, interact with maturity when in disagreement, communicate with teachers, doctors, staff, registrar's office, etc. ....
I am fine with not every 18 year old being equal 🙂 Totally agree!! Really we can only do our best to prepare our kids and make the right decisions, and sometimes even the best laid plans have to be reconfigured. It's part of life! How do you know that someone may not make whatever decision they think is perfect and still waste thousands of dollars? It happens. Not the plan, but it happens.
Kids also need the chance to go out and try, and not be held back due to parental fears as well.
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Neat ideas! Yes, that is her first choice major. She will be applying for GD at some schools (the ones we know will produce connections, internships and marketable degrees) and English at a few safeties (to pursue who knows what probably working in a library but not actually a library science degree)
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Just adding that if I had kids that were active "joiners" and leaders, with good friends going in the right direction, as well as the degree they were seeking being available and excellent at the CC, and being part of things as mentioned above, I'd be fine with CC
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No, my dd does not want to live at home 🙂 At all.
Both of my kids did or will spend a lot of time doing CC before graduating, (my son did two entire full years, my dd will start one class and then her whole senior year) and getting to know the ins and outs of community college, driving independently at 16, they both worked all summer starting at age 15, and they both have their own bank accounts, gas cards, budgets and certain expenses for which they are responsible. They both by age 13 ish their own schedule, choices for when to stay up and go to bed, what to eat etc. (with occasional concerns brought up by me if I see something concerning)
BUT I feel they are too comfy here, socially. And that in general the living is easy here even with full time community college....Both of them love us, spend time with us, have very little need for outside friend, clubs, interactions, and social activities, etc. My son had two good friends here which he is still in contact with, and volunteered at church every single week. That's it. (and worked all summer)...My dd is pretty much the same way except she only has like one friend and maybe two acquaintances. They play board games with us, watch movies with us, basically read and hang around the house and enjoy most of our interactions as a family which is great, but to be honest it can actually be overwhelming to me, that they consider me their BFF's all. the. time. 🙂
I really was asking hypothetically, because even if my dd did think it was a good option to stay home and commute to local CC I don't think I'd allow it. she really needs to stretch her wings socially more, and it'll never happen when she's so comfy here with her BFF's in-house. 🙂 She is an INFP so she will never have a gaggle of friends but at least being involved with one or two, and joining one or two clubs out of necessity would be better than just being at home with us all the time when she's not at school or work. 🙂
Also she has absolutely zero desire to stay home because she is just ready, for the independence and change. she loves travel 🙂
(As an aside, I don't think I know any young people here other than college graduated high tech engineers) sharing apartments because the COL is so high. A typical 2 bedroom apartment is about 3.5- 4k per month. 🙂 and Gas is 3.88/gal, taxes are 10% state plus Federal...it goes on and on 🙂 )
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If you hypothetically had a kid with a situation where they will go to community college, or straight into the workforce at some job where they hope to move up the ranks, or they will commute to your state school....They worked hard in high school, are good achievers, good SAT scores, and COULD have gone away but it's just better financially or logically more feasible (due to whatever factors not just finances), to stay home and save the money and go local.
This may sound like a very First World/Spoiled Middle Class American question BUT :
How do you ensure that kid does not feel disappointed and more importantly, gets a chance to spread their wings and experience new opportunities and force themselves to grow and stretch....
Other than PeaceCorps, Missionary Trips, Enlisting, or just taking vacations....
what is the possibilities as far as getting to be away from mom and dad, having more independence, seeing and going somewhere different and new, etc.?
I just see my son really growing as an independent young man and a person and taking opportunities and being forced to learn and do things he never would have at home. Not only socially but in so many other ways. Even just going to the ER alone 🙂 Sad as it was, he grew as a person in a way that never would have happened at home.
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13 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:
The 2 flagships we have access to are both on the public ivy list. I'm talking about our midwestern directional state schools that you've probably never heard of if you live outside the upper midwest. Most are in range of ACT 21-28 (SAT 1050-1340). If you have scores lower than that it's CC or maybe one of a handful of Christian colleges no one has ever heard of if you want to go to college. Anyway, I've seen many highly successful students out of these types of schools. And some higher stat students that got unique opportunities at these schools by being ambitious including launching to more prestigious institutions for grad school. Faculty positions are highly competitive these days. My kid had access to amazing faculty at an urban community college dual enrolling.
There can be lots of reasons a student might get a 900 on the SAT and it may not reflect ability. However, I don't think putting your average ACT 900/2.0 student at a college with a better name is going to really help them. Because it's at least somewhat likely they aren't actually college ready, they may have an undiagnosed LD, they may not be motivated, they may have anxiety, etc. I guess it's not too surprising to me that if that's the average student, that they aren't super successful after graduation if they don't do a 180 while enrolled.
Agree...and good thoughts....Then that goes back to our many other posts here about the fact that pushing college for everyone has not been a smart move for our country, and is getting to be an even worse move as prices continue to skyrocket. If you aren't within driving distance of a CalState, you are still paying 120k for your education. (since it takes an average of 6 years to graduate now, due to impaction/overcrowding) ...Wouldn't so many of these students be better off in a trade or certificate program? What are we all doing as a country and as parents?
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And our kids will graduate with no debt. I’m not disagreeing that being financially Responsible is the best choice. I’m just saying sometimes being financially responsible also means not wasting four years — and then what?
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Here there are two different state schools, the UCs and the CalStates. The UCs require much higher admission stAndards and are respected and well regarded. With the exception of some programs the CalStates have admission averages of 2.0 high school GPA and 900 SAT score. They take hundreds of thousands of students and aside from STEM here where we live the other jobs have more applicants than spaces available. So when I say state school I don’t mean your flagship state U I mean the run of the mill state colleges which take everyone.
I don’t know what the solution or answer is, my point is that none of our Choices are Easy especially outside of STEM
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The young pharmacist at my Rite Aid, myself and the Pharm tech were chatting the other day and the pharmacist said she had 300K worth of debt upon graduation. I said, "Do you feel it's worth it, I know being a pharmacist pays well" and she said "No are you kidding? My debt is a burden. It's like 1500 per month, and if I had gone to a state school I would have less than half that debt and the same job. Rite Aid hires pharmacists from Ivy League or UC, it doesn't matter."
I felt very sad for her.
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Oh duh, oops!
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We’ve had to have some talks with our kids that they have to choose a marketable major. Our son, should be struggle with the (extremely) difficult math requirements and weed out tactics at PSU would love to pursue a Philosophy Degree. We are not able to float that for him. So he knows he will have to cruise on over to the IST department If engineering doesn’t work out. It’s just a fact that we cannot afford to pay for his schooling or most of it up to the PhD level there. He could of course come home and pursue philosophy at our local stateU and if that were really his dream and path we’d support it. But only there where it’s less than 4K to attend full time.
Meanwhile our daughter wishes to pursue Graphic Design. We have done our research and found there are a few programs within her Reach which Would be marketable degrees. So she is applying Gd to some schools and for probably English at others (which isn’t even as marketable as we’d like but more than GD, and those other schools are much much less expensive.)
I Think people have to talk to their kids About reality and talk turkey about what parents are willing and able to support. And that should partly be based on whether the degree is marketable.
We know at least five young adults with degrees from our local state U who cannot find a full time job. And these are actual friends, not friends Of friends. They churn out vast numbers of graduates but the school just doesn’t have the name, reputation, connections, support and alumni network. So if the degree is anything but STEM Or teaching the students are often jobless. Even for the graduates willing to teach they usually have to start in really bad schools and work their way up step by step. Start out at a school outside the area in the country, where kids literally light up in the classroom and parents and students alike have meth problems, and/or gang issues rampant...then come to a public school in the city, then work their way to where they really want to be which are the private schools.
So you make choices. Sometimes the choice is graduate debt free and can’t find a job or graduate with 60- 100k of debt and have internships jobs and connections knocking at your door.
i feel like not many of the choices are easy. So far to me it seems that that the “Public Ivies” seem to be a good return on investment. Or the Little Ivies if you can get scholarships. For school teaching almost anywhere will do, as long as you put in the effort to network. But not everyone wants to be a school teacher. ....
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On 5/24/2018 at 8:01 AM, Mom2boys said:
My ds, who intends to pursue a BFA in Lighting Design, does not want to take any math in 12th grade. He has four math credits already, through precalc, which seems to meet the admissions requirements for the universities he is considering. But I have read multiple places that colleges really like to see math taken in 12th grade on transcripts - I believe because it shows rigor and that the student didn't slack off senior year? Did any of your kids not take any math in 12th grade? Did it hurt them at all in terms of college admissions or merit scholarships?
I would say it depends on his overall transcript. In a similar situation my dd intends to pursue graphic design. However, she will apply to another major if rejected so I want her high school to be generally college prep, if not exactly rigorous.
She does not intend to take Science in 12th grade. When speaking to admissions, they said for Art, it would be preferable for her to focus on taking more art classes from the community college.
Of course, if she is then not accepted into the art program, and reapplies in another major, or applies elsewhere as another major (probably English/Literature), then her overall transcript will be less rigorous.
SO, if he's SURE he's applying everywhere for Lighting Tech, and he has some other rigor (aka 3 years of FL, or 3-4 years of Science or AP something, etc.) then he can drop math in 12th grade. But if his overall transcript is vanilla, OR he may possibly apply as a non arts major at another school, or if rejected from Lighting Design, ....then I'd keep the math if possible.
Also, many states allow you to put 8th grade math on the high school transcript. Which would look like 4 years of math (and actually, is four years of math)
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I would say, to be on the safe side, a quick note saying "This essay based on a previous article I wrote" and then the link (similar to what was suggested above)...
I don't see why they can't recycle something they wrote ...
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2 hours ago, Janeway said:
There seems to be a building feeling at our house that we should not discuss college with oldest son anymore and should instead, expect him to get a job when he graduates high school and potentially learn some skills until he is more interested in college. Here is the basic problem...he is in public school now. He is in the top 10% of his class. He was one point short on the national merit selection index score from being NMSF, but he is commended. He is not excited about college. He has no interest in majors or discussing plans for the future. He has ASD. He intends to declare philosophy as a major, but hates things like class discussions, socratic seminars, and in class writing. In fact, he hates these things so much that his current IEP says he does not have to do them. But the only majors he has seriously considered has been writing or philosophy. He has gotten in to every college he has applied to, and gotten scholarships. He has some big social skills deficits. By social skills, I do not just mean in the making of friends. I am talking tone of voice when speaking to people. He comes off as flippant when I do not think he really means it this way.
If he delays college, I assume that means that in the future, he will end up having to do the entire application process over again. I assume it would only become more difficult to get recommendations at that point. He has not owned the process of applying or picking colleges to look at. He is a very book type person and not an outside of the box kind of person. He clearly needs to get unstuck and we are very concerned if we throw him in to college this fall, it will just become an expensive disaster.
Any opinions or advice?
I don't know....do any of the colleges have support groups and programs for kids with ASD? That seems like a good option too. Though his social skills are lacking, does he make friends with people that have his same interests? Would he be active in joining clubs? I have a cousin with some pretty serious ASD/he's actually dx'd with full on autism. Horrible people skills, terrible eye contact, and definitely hates group work as well as public speaking. But he just takes on everything as if it were a job to do, and he does it. He is about to graduate from University of Florida Engineering with a Mechanical ENg degree and already has a job lined up at a big aerospace company in FL. He has friends, he found other "quirky, geeky" people like him in college, and he did great. He still does not drive, as he finds it very stressful, so he Ubers everywhere and uses busses and stuff...there are issues but he has done very well.
My own oldest ds doesn't have ASD but he has a few sensory issues and is "quirky" and likes unusual things like board games and getting into the Engineering house has meant that he has met lots more people with similar interests than he otherwise would have, if he had be in a regular dorm.
Does he know how to problem solve, take care of himself, use online resource to register for things, use instacart, doordash, apps for the Health Services, advocate for himself, and take care of his body and health issues (and he can text you a lot of course, you can help him even from afar.)....?
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Maybe there are two different programs? From my understanding (having lived in FL and had a lot of young people I know consider this) I thought the college program wasn't just a regular paid job but included classes, training, and was huge for networking...?? And for some reason I thought the Disney College kids weren't flipping burgers but doing more of the meet and greet type stuff or selling things. IDK
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It is a learning curve. My kid went to go somewhere and wanted to take a walk, then realized it was closed when he got there. Many of the student building are also closed today, so he was basically walking for almost 45 minutes in 26 degree weather. He called me on the way back while sheltering in a random open building to try to warm up a bit. LOL...it *IS* a learning curve!
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6 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:
We are from the upper midwest. I think it is around zero in my locale right now. Anyway, when we were touring schools like in Chicago/midwest we were surprised and a little amused by how much people talked about weather on the tours and how that seemed a big part of college selection to some. It was ZERO a part of decision making here. My kid applied all over. And he ended up on a campus with real winter. It actually averages a tiny bit warmer than we do, though probably a little wetter. We invested in plenty of smart wool socks, long underwear, etc and he's on his way. People really do adjust to the weather and it is no big deal after a while. But I totally get there is no convincing an 18 year old of that if they have their mind set in a particular way.
Honestly, that's because you are from a cold place, and are used to the cold, bundling up, and know the basics of how to live in the cold. My kids grew up half in FL and half in CA. They actually have to learn about layers, bundling up, how cold is cold enough that you can get frostbite, when you wear long johns, the fact that sweating underneath is not healthy and on and on. When you add that to all the new adjustments, freshman germs, a new environment and the general germs of dorm living it can just be a little much. Impossible? No, but definitely a bit much. For my freshman son, currently in State College which is pretty cold, it has been an adjustment and he has had to ask friends and google some stuff, and he has also been extremely sick with multiple issues. 🙂 He actually LOVES the cold much better than Florida! But my up and coming dd is not as hardy in general and also has a tendency to not want to wear layers. She gets very itchy (maybe a touch of sensory issues) so it's going to be a HUGE adjustment just having to wear a sweater around all day, let alone the jackets, and other layers. (also edited to say I grew up in Philly/NJ and I am fine with the cold and never remember having an issue or even a complaint growing up. But now when i go back in winter, even with proper clothing, it is a bit of a shock! your system really has to adjust or something.)
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16 minutes ago, RootAnn said:
-35F
I think at -40, they are the same.
Right, because it's really a mathematical formula and they are not equal ...degree for degree....
Oh man that is cold cold cold!!!
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9 hours ago, arctic_bunny said:
Oh, just the Prairies where -37C without the wind is just plain cold, no matter what you’re wearing. We’ve been spoilt most of the winter! We got an email that the school busses probably won’t run tomorrow, with means either the ambient temp is -40 or it’s -45 with windchill. So, we are all planning on sleeping in an extra 45 min and driving the kids to school. Brrrrrrr.
Are you in the US? You must be in Canada since you're using Celcius 🙂
SO is that -5 Farenheight? Since 32 is freezing? No wait I am doing something wrong here. ....
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Spinoff college being worth it....
in The College Board
Posted
Thank you to those who answered the (sincere) question (from a place of true lack of knowledge and wanting to know). I love the ideas. Lots of things I had never considered or heard about at all!