blondeviolin
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Posts posted by blondeviolin
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I started the Riley book, but not all of it agrees with my son. I will probably work through most of it, but I'm still very hopeful that medication will really help with the argumentative/angry outbursts. He has an appointment with his pediatrician this afternoon. I also have messages in to a few people I know IRL who have ADHD children. The ADHD piece is the first thing I want to tackle.
So, books I've read:
The Strong-Willed Child
The Explosive Child
Strong-Willed or Dreamer?
The Out-of-Sync Child
Smart, But Scattered (Re-reading)
Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child (working through this one now)
Sitting on shelf:
The Impulsive, Disorganized Child
The Myth of the ADD Child
Overcoming Dyslexia
Last year I ran him through LOE Foundations and he made great gains reading-wise with that. None of the spelling stuck. (And I don't love the layout of Essentials. He doesn't need all of the extra LA stuff...just the phonics.) SS doesn't seem to bother him and I think it has helped him stop being afraid of the bigger words. I am hesitant to switch at the moment because I'd like to give it a valiant effort. He's only got a few weeks left in WWE 2...I'm debating moving his writing block to reviewing the phonics from LOE Foundations via dictation or taking LOE Essentials and working through the word lists and rules. I have no problem putting a pause on writing to shore up some of these foundational skills. He does narration and comprehension questions when the story is read to him no problem.
I also am planning on taking him to a COVD optometrist. He actually did a round of OT due to an oral chewing thing. The OT tested his fine motor skills and said they were within normal limits (and the NP testing agreed, it just was low compared to everything else) and his handwriting is pretty decent for a boy. BUT, she did mention he might have convergence issues so I think having the eyes tested will help too.
I am reading so opinions, thoughts, and recommendations are always helpful.
And, if by chance, anyone knows what ADHD might look like in a 3.5yo (as in your son was maybe diagnosed then or later, but you saw it at 3.5), could you lemme know what that looks like? I'm wondering if we are looking at this with my 3.5yo who also is language delayed, but every time I google I get stuff telling me that 3yos can't generally focus on stuff anyway so it's very hard to diagnose and almost never happens.
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My 9yo just had a full neuropsych evaluation. We had the results appointment today. She noted concentration issues and said she could safely diagnose him ADHD. So we have at least that.
She noted that his executive functioning skills are low. He thinks in details but cannot put together the big picture. He can't formulate a plan. She said that he scored low with fine motors and might have diagnosed him dysgraphic, however his handwriting was "too good" for a definitive diagnosis. Similarly, she might have diagnosed dyslexia, but he was within grade level for his reading and was able to sound out nonsense words. But his spelling is SO POOR. She said rules-based spelling and phonics would be good for him. So basically, all of the phonics work that I have drilled him through (for YEARS) has allowed him to be on-grade-level while all of his other results were far above average.
I mentioned to her that he argues with me and does not take correction well. She said there is some potential ODD there (which sounds scary from the small snippet I've read) and handed me a book (The Defiant Child: A Parent's Guide to Oppositional Defiant Disorder). She told us that it was very good that he is not in public school because there would be lots of medication, accommodations, and still re-teaching at home. She said if we were willing to try medication, it could be beneficial and to speak with our pediatrician about it. She also referred us to a therapist for the ODD.
SO... My questions here:
Firstly, because he's on grade level with his reading, do I continue what I'm doing? What about spelling? We are using Sequential Spelling and I feel like he's doing pretty well with it. I was happy to see that he did remember how to spell "dinner" on one of the assessments because that is a word that has been reviewed with SS. FWIW, he has done SWR (he could never get through remembering the phonograms), LOE, and now SS for spelling. I also have him reviewing his sister's R&S spelling words. He still bombs those. Do I move to Apple and Pears spelling? Fast Track Dancing Bears or whatever? I have no qualms dropping anything related to spelling and/or reading to really shore up these skills if we need to.
What do I do about the possible dysgraphia?
For the EF issues, I've got Smart But Scattered that I have read through half-heartedly. His dad struggles with some of this so I've read it with him in mind, but I guess I'll be rereading.
For the ADHD - we are pretty solid with our routine and schedule. He does school 40 minutes on and 20 minutes off. He doesn't really struggle with his schoolwork and I allow plenty of bouncing, verbal outbursts, gum-chewing whatever. He knows that if he doesn't complete his schoolwork, he is not allowed to do ANYTHING (outside, iPad, TV, whatever). He does not take correction very well, though. If I make him come back and fix a problem, he is irritated because that takes more time and it's "good enough," right?!
I'm hoping that if we do some medications for the ADHD and get some impulsivity under control, that it will mean he is less argumentative. I am not ruling out the ODD as of yet. Even if he doesn't quite meet all of the requirements for ODD, seeing a therapist for it is sure to help regardless.
Book recommendations? Websites?
And of course, I'll continue to research and read up...
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This is our second year doing Saxon for fourth grade math. I teach the lesson, child orally does the lesson practice, and then I pick ten problems from the mixed practice for review. My kids have been able to do that part on their own at this point.
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My boy is loving Michael Vey. He's about younger, though, so take these suggestions with that mind.
Percy Jackson
39 Clues
Infinity Ring
Ranger's Apprentice
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My oldest reads these like brain candy. I'd say 4-6 grade is a good range.
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BA is a GREAT program for teaching math concepts and thinking. My oldest sometimes would space the finer details, but once I mentioned them again, she'd re-remember. Three years later she still retains nearly all of the concepts she learned in Beast, though, maybe not the fiddle details. That's typical for her and as she's aged and used some of the concepts in practice again and again (which is why we moved to Saxon for her), the concepts AND details have stuck. She does reread the Beast text for fun.
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My oldest is doing RSO Biology 2 spread through 18mos as well as Botany in 8 (McHenry), Quark (Barefoot Meandering), and Exploring Biology (Tiner). She's loving RSO and is capable of doing it herself. It is expensive, though.
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Not necessary, but really nice to have! The songs of the chants is fun for my kids. And I'm doing FLL with my 3rd and 4th kids and they are doing just fine with taking the narration stories on audio and coming back for questions and summaries.
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We have a few fires. My kids like them okay. My littles are happy to have something to do audible with. Occasionally they play on them too. The battery does seem to be lacking.
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Are you sure it's cough-variant asthma and not post-nasal drip irritating your vocal chords? You might do some research on Vocal Chord Dysfunction.
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Mine can be argumentative. This won't solve the overall problem, but maybe bend some rules like instead of making him erase, let him fold the paper and start below. Or let him get a new sheet out. If an adult was writing a novel and had to start over, they would probably trash their old copy, not put white out all over it (or hit the delete key on the keyboard/open a new file).
If I made mine erase he would probably be more agitated and then might even have something new to complain about "uggh, eraser marks everywhere" or "it's hard to erase this."
We have similar problems with cursive. Sometimes I would instruct him to do something and he'd do it incorrectly and we'd argue about whether or to start a new thing or erase the old. Dh was making him erase in the cursive book over and over. I thought it was overkill. But sometimes when we'd be working in a tablet I'd say to start a new line and ds would want to erase I think. All this to say everyone has their own preferred method I guess lol.
We had a private eval done and it showed he met criteria for ADD, but really, that eval doesn't tell me how to handle these battles. I'm having to figure that out on my own and with help of other parents/books.
Yes this! I didn't even think about folding the paper!
And even if he comes out of this veal with a dx, that doesn't give me tools to work through some of these issues. It just tells me where to look.
And, FWIW, we had the EXACT issues yesterday afternoon when his dad asked him to pick up trash he had dropped in the yard. Of course he'd have rather played with his friends, but instead he blew up and then spent some time sorting himself out in his room instead.
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This is the GOAL of WWE! You're supposed to separate writing into copywork and dictation in order to make it simpler to learn each individual skill. If he is WRITING his own narrations, then he has succeeded! Go back and reread the WWE introduction.
I know. He is on the cusp. He can write history narrations, but it's lower quality. He's at the point where he tells me a sentence, then I tell him, "Write that down." And repeat until his narration is complete. That's exactly why I know this dictation exercise wasn't too hard.
And no, he's not doing Modern Speller and WWE. He's definitely not doing too much writing. He types his Latin translations, writes 25 words from
Sequential Spelling, fills out a few worksheets, but it's definitely not too much writing. I'm definitely a quality over quantity person at this stage.
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My son packs Uno in his swim bag. And his own snacks. We bring everyone to watch him swim (even my very busy 3yo). I love Meet Mobile so I'd say see if they upload the meets there. We bring snacks, screens, and a little kit of legos and play figurines. My kids have made friends with other swim siblings so they look for their friends under the bleachers every meet.
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He likes taking dictation from Modern Speller and does so just fine. This was definitely defiance as he won't even respond yes or no and he's angry when he's doing it. Talking later he tells me he just wants to make me angry.
Part of it is frustration on his part.
I have noticed more issue if other kids are enjoying a screen and he is not because he has to do a lesson, which happened today. It's not fair of me to take their show because he can't watch it. (Though, I have done that often because I don't want to have the power struggle.)
I have dealt with the rigidity and anxiety from him and this wasn't that.
This dictation, though, was just the right level. It wasn't "woah, this is WAY too easy," but it was bordering on too easy. It was only one sentence. Typically he writes his own history narrations and multiple sentences at once!
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I will also look into these other writing approaches. TBH, I feel like in some ways we are biding our time until we can start IEW with him. I assume it will be the "formula" that help his writing thrive. I'm also waiting on his evaluation in regards to his phonics/reading/spelling stuff.
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For my anxious kid, when the anxiety hits, it can hit hard and feel super irrational to me - a subject he loves, a subject he hates, something he's doing incredibly well with or struggling with. Kids just aren't even, you know? It's so weird to me how ds can be put down by something one day - literally not be able to adjust his stuck thinking on it and then sail through it the next. And just because it's easy doesn't mean that kids with anxiety can breeze through it - sometimes kids with learning issues find doing remedial work (or work they perceive as being "too easy" for where they perceive they "should" be) to be more anxiety inducing because it reinforces for them that the subject is hard.
Maybe it's not anxiety... maybe he is trying to seize control the only way he can or maybe it's just a bad habit - sometimes even when you've fixed the problem, kids keep struggling because that's the dynamic they're used to... but you already know there are deep enough issues with this subject to seek testing. If it were me, I would want to force myself to back off until I knew more. Why keep reinforcing an unhealthy dynamic between the two of you and between him and the subject when you're both genuinely not sure what the issues are and what he needs?
THIS is what I feel it is more. He is, in general, not an anxious kid. I have kids who have dabbled with anxiety and the like and he is not that. Even the developmental pediatrician we saw (to get the neuropsych referral) mentioned how low-stress/low anxiety he is. And he has ALWAYS been a controlling kid. I HAVE backed off with the writing, which is my point. This morning's issue was more likely a grab for control. We deal with this a lot. But it's frustrating me within the realm of schoolwork. It kills his whole day. Unfortunately, learning some things is not something he can control. We aim to be a natural-consequence house and the only consequence here is that he goes to his room to collect himself. Unfortunately, that incites him as well because he just wants to get his school done to go play. :-/
I guess we are just stuck waiting for this evaluation...
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Okay, but we are more than halfway through WWE 2. He didn't struggle at all when we were doing it LAST YEAR. We did a bit of Treasured Conversations this year and he had HUGE hangups with that, not because it was outside of realm of ability (neither was this morning's exercise), but because there was more than one or two sentences of copywork. He handles dictation harder than this better than my oldest did by far. This week we moved back to WWE and he even THANKED me for changing his writing.
I do have a lot of positive adjectives for him: strong-willed, tough, gifted, motivated, energetic, up for a challenge, etc. Out of all of my kids, he is typically the one that is quickest through his work, and most motivated to complete it.
Sometimes we have similar problems when I give him an explanation and ask if he understands or if that makes sense. All I'm look for is a simple yes or no and he refuses to answer. He stays silent until I've waited enough time for him to respond and he asks why I'm taking so long to move forward. It is his way of controlling the situation.
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The upset comes when I ask him to do something he doesn't want to do; he's almost offended that I'm requiring him to do something. Stubborn, and strong-willed. (And he's been this way since babyhood.).
Talking about any incident later often results in sighing and grumbling that we're talking about it and not playing whatever he wants to play. Rarely, he does experience heartfelt sadnes that he struggles with whatever, but doesn't seem to have the tools to deal with it. Hence the evaluations.
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My oldest son (almost nine) is battling rudeness during his work. (Actually, this is a problem in life in general for him.) Any time I try to lead him through anything difficult by discussion and questioning, he insists on plowing ahead and doing it his way. I have tried stopping him right then and helping. It incites him and makes him angry and rude and eventually defiant with him refusing to fix or adjust himself. If I let him do it roar ahead and correct it all at the end, he is rude/yells. It ultimately boils down to him being immature, incapable of accepting correction due to self-involvement, and a good heaping of lack of impulse control. It doesn't matter if the work is too easy or challenging for him. If he doesn't want to do it or deems it not worthy of his work, he becomes argumentative.
Example scenario: This morning he was doing dictation. It was from WWE 2 and not overly difficult. I spelled out the words he may need help with prior and gave him the dictation sentence. He was having trouble keeping all parts of the sentence together so I asked him to listen to the sentence and repeat it orally, which is a tactic that I have used with my oldest successfully to help cement it all together. He refused to answer, seething that I wouldn't just tell him the next part of the sentence. From there it all went all downhill. He became angry. I sent him to his room to calm down. But, when he came downstairs to talk, he told me he didn't want to be near me because my breath stank (nearly impossible because I was chewing mint gum just after having brushed my teeth). I told him to go back to his room because he was still being hurtful (which it then dawned on him that his words WERE hurtful). He came back down quickly and somewhat ready to work. But at this point it had been a while since he had written the first part of the sentence so I had him erase it since the point of the exercise is to hold the WHOLE sentence in his head. Which, of course, made him angry that I had him erase part of his work.
If it makes any difference, we almost never have this problem with math or grammar. Almost always he gets angry or frustrated with writing/reading, which shows me that it is more difficult for him and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. On days where he is on it, these subjects never give him pause. It's only when I assign him something that he perceives too much or he doesn't want to do. I do suspect dyslexia and/or ADHD.
So, besides having him see someone (he has a big neuropsych eval in a couple of weeks), what do I to with this temperament?
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Firstly, if you wanna get in quicker you could also check allergists in your area. They usually have basic lung functions test capabilities and are pretty familiar with mild/moderate lung issues. They can also order immunology tests. While I'm not a very allergic person, I see both a pulmo and an allergist to manage my severe asthma.
Also, asthma isn't just constriction, but also inflammation. That's a big thing that many discount.
But two rounds of pneumonia in 18 months? While that's cruddy, and I hope you feel better soon, I wouldn't be overly concerned yet.
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For 4th, FLL. If you haven't somebody it before, you may have to start with book 3. It's pretty thorough. For 6th, maybe Analytical Grammar?
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"You use books, right?" I was asked this while we were AT THE LIBRARY. :001_huh:
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My big takeaway was that we need to require more from our future teachers in post-secondary education. Subsequently, we need to pay them more!
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Our order has been WWE 1, WWE 2, Treasured Conversations, WWE 3, and now Killgallon for my 5th grader. She is strong in LA naturally and Killgallon'a Sentence Composing is still appropriately challenging.
ADHD, ODD, dyslexia, dysgraphia - woah.
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted · Edited by blondeviolin
Today was his first dose of Concerta at the lowest dose. And I feel like angels are singing!!! For the last couple of days, he complained and argued when things didn't go his way. I couldn't even get him to LISTEN for me to explain why I wanted him to do something else. If someone bothered him, he'd yell or whack without thinking.
Today he did everything I asked. When I corrected, he immediately adjusted with nary a murmur. It could be just the day (because his issues are cyclical - oh, you know, like HORMONES), but the last couple of days had been somewhat hairy so maybe not. I'm optimistic.
And the big thing!!! He took a math test this afternoon. Towards the end, My oldest was talking to me and rubbing her hands on the table and my other daughter was whistling. He looked at each of the distractions. Then he got a bit of a crazy look in his eyes and said calmly, "Could you all please stop? Because I'm really trying to focus and you guys are sort of distracting me and my medicine is wearing off." :)
Today, I liked my son. I liked homeschooling.
If this is medication, we will take it. It should be a positive thing towards relationships with him.