This structure is also taught in IEW's Elegant Essay - but there are about 7 or 8 different ways (a quote just being one of them) to support the topic sentence. A personal anecdote, a statistic - several others. I forget all the rest right now (and I guess IEW would probably prefer it that way - LOL!)

Check this out. My kids will also be 10th and 7th next year - both boys - but no CW in their background. Leanna advised me off-board that she thought doing LTOW with my boys together would be ideal *if* I had had the time to do so. (I ended up putting my older DS in the LTOW class with Memoria Press and will be doing Rod and Staff 7 with the younger one, and adding in some WTM & IEW techniques to his MFW notebooking assignments.) Hopefully she will see this thread and chime in for your particular situation! Best wishes!

We were doing Geometry, which didn't have a Home Companion (at that time - maybe it does now). Since that wasn't an option for us, I forgot that was available for some levels. slinking away now~

My DS liked LOF, too. But it didn't have nearly enough practice problems for the concepts to stick, and we ended up dropping it. I think it's best for a supplement or for kids who are gifted in math (pick it up very quickly and don't need any practice problems). Guess it's worth a shot~

Well, hey, I saw your thread on the K-8 Board about possibly not keeping your younger ones together. You know, if you did Omnibus IV with the oldest, you could do Omnibus I with the 7th grader, and the scripted Veritas Press Lesson Plans with the youngers. I say this having *never* used *any* of the Veritas Press stuff, but - hey - you'll know if it's right for you or not! =) And, they even have online classes for the Omnibus now. Though, if the oldest has been sick, he might not want the deadlines that come with an online class. Praying God gives you peace about a decision soon. The "not knowing" part is just the worst.

I think I might let him break off and do a more traditional path, and do a World History year. (You could look at MFW, which spans from the founding of Rome to post- WW2, would be pretty independent, and include lit.) Then, senior year, you could do Economics and Geography - a half-year each. Or, vice-versa. I guess you could get Econ and Geo from BJU, and pair them with something like Lightning Lit or Smarr Lit - oh, there's also Stobaugh and the new lit series carried by IEW that you could use to help you plan lit for that year. (But, I'm tired of trying to keep my high schooler and my middle schooler together. That's like trying to tie wet mice together and saying, "Now, let's all sit down and have tea." Hopefully, your mileage varies - LOL!)

I think I'm about to get pounced upon, so I'll type this very softly.... but no. Rhetoric, when it comes down to it, is "Advanced Writing and Speaking." It's not *necessary* for college admissions or most of us who post on this board would have never gotten into college. BTW - an inexpensive and easy-to-understand (and easily dismissed and probably not what a purist would choose) Rhetoric program would be IEW's Classical Rhetoric. They say you should have completed a year of IEW before attempting it. But really, I would bet if you had a look at it, you might not find it all that intimidating. (It's only $30 or so.) Just my 2-cents. Feel free to ignore~ (I don't even have a cool avatar...bad inside joke - ignore that, too - LOL!)

Much better, thanks!

:lol: I'm so embarrassed! I keep thinking you're a different poster since you changed your avatar - ROFLOL! ;)

Hi, Beth! I googled "New Testament for Greek" and couldn't find anything that looked like a Greek curriculum. Do you have a publisher or a link you could share? Thanks!

Well, I heard from the Bluedorn's that each volume of Homeschool Greek is equivalent to 1/2 year of college Greek, so I think that Volume 1 would be enough for a full credit. But, I'd still love to know if anyone here has actually *used* it (or seen it). Or, even just knows someone IRL who has... ;)

Here's a link, fyi. I've searched the net and couldn't find any info other than "official" reviews, which all look really good. Any nay-sayers here? Thanks!

Can you clarify which books you actually used? Did you use any of the Advanced Books, or just the basic books? Thanks!

Great post! I also think switching without a true *need* for a switch wastes my time and energy. What I mean is...OK - I was gonna be cryptic - but let's just make it real....I haven't had much time to be online lately due to health issues. So, yesterday, I come online and read about TOG. I know all about TOG already. I've printed out TOG samples 3-4 times in the past 5 years. I already know it's not gonna work for me next year. I have three kids on three completely different levels, (going into TOG Year 2 - not the best year to start TOG), a brand-new part-time position (not paid) in my DH's business, these weird health issues going on, and a huge need for pre-planned lessons AND $1000 WORTH OF BRAND-NEW, JUST ORDERED, MFW CURRICULUM SITTING IN THE CORNER OF MY DINING ROOM!!!!! So what did *I* do from 10pm to midnight last night? Lie in bed and think of, "Boy, did I *really* give TOG a good think through before I shot it down?! Did I pray about it? Did I listen?" Well...HELLO!...of course I did!!! LOL Now, my issue this week was history and literature, where gaps aren't that important. But, the same thing happens in math and writing and every other subject as well. I tend to have *good* reasons for the curriculum I choose. I just tend to forget what those reasons are in the midst of real life. One thing I've found helpful is to right down my "goal" - my reason for choosing the curriculum I've chosen for each child. What was it that prompted me to choose that particular curriculum? Then, if later I feel the urge to change, I can go back and be more objective and decide if the curriculum is meeting that need. (I tend to make emotional decisions when there is a problem - "OH, I should switch and make this problem go away!", and having a written list of what I expect from the curriculum has greatly curbed that tendency!) I don't know what that has to do with anything ~ but maybe it will save someone some money someday - LOL!

First, it's hard to say without knowing how old your kids are... But, just start at the beginning. It's hard to love any program that is so bare-bones, you know? But, what is enjoyable about IEW is that you can mold it to fit whatever history or science or literature program you are already using and loving. So...if you are using WTM for history, and you happen to be using Usborne and you are in Unit 1 of IEW, and you have a 3rd or 4th grader, choose a blurb that has 3-4 sentences in it, and use that for your key-word outline. The next day come back and re-write it. Maybe you'll notice that one of dc's sentence really would flow better if s/he did use one of those dress-up's that right now seem so artificial. Leave it. But, the next day, come back and teach that dress-up, which now is a way of bringing flow and coherence and logic to a paragraph. It's a tool (which will need to be practiced, sometimes awkwardly). While all this "writing" has been going on, you've been reading about related topics in history, or doing hands-on projects. At the end of the week, you file your really cool paragraph into your history notebook, and feel really good about it. You can do the same thing in science. We were able to do so much more cross-curricular writing by using IEW this year (as opposed to R&S). And, once you start, keep going. Don't get stuck on Unit 1 & 2 Key-word Outlines forever. Stay with them for one month or so, and then move on! (Also, don't feel like you have to watch & master all the units before you start teaching Unit 1. Just watch them as you go.) One caveat: I would still keep my eye on R&S's writing lessons, as there are some things R&S teaches that IEW does not. Namely, ways to develop paragraphs (tho' this is more of an issue in 7th and 8th grades). R&S also teaches some lit analysis via their writing lessons. (Of course, you might not have even been using R&S in the first place - LOL!) Blessings!

I'm not familiar with IIW.... And, most of my experience in actual homeschool teaching is with R&S/WTM Methods. We used IEW last year for both boys (then 9th and 6th), and are preparing to use LTOW with my oldest (10th gr DS) next year via Memoria Press. The youngest will continue with IEW/R&S for at least another year. I think of IEW as a foundational writing program. It teaches up to "how to write a good but basic essay." And, it has given my younger ds tools which has made that process *so* much easier than it was for my older ds (even tho' my older ds has a much greater natural ability in writing). It is going to take some further work on my part to teach him paragraph coherence and logical flow. But - hey - it took a lot of one-on-one tutoring to teach those using R&S and WTM with my older one as well - LOL! I don't think that's a flaw of IEW, just the nature of the beast of writing. I do think that LTOW may help to teach coherence and flow (I'm sure it does!), as it is a rhetoric course. But, I personally wanted LTOW to be a capstone of sorts, so that dc could focus on the rhetorical techniques themselves - rather than learning the basics of writing alongside the rhetorical techniques. But, I'm certain that an experienced teacher wouldn't find it as frustrating trying to keep those two goals in mind as I would. (I find teaching 3 different levels of children frustrating enough as it is - hence, my joy at finding the Lost Tools of Writing class for my 10th grader next year - LOL!) LTOW also incorporates aspects of the Progymnasmata throughout it's lessons (tho' it does not march through the progym in order as other classical writing programs do). You might find this particular thread helpful as well. I guess I didn't answer your question directly. Basically, I don't think one is "best". But, I think IEW is a great foundation for LTOW. (And if I had time after LTOW, I would look into Veritas Press Online's Rhetoric classes.)

Derek Jacobi has an audio version of Fagle's translation which we really liked. It is abridged, but still excellent. (I wouldn't have known of it, but it was recommended in WEM. ;))

You will likely want to pre-read, as it deals frankly (and sometimes humorously) with adult subjects.

From emails back and forth with DIVE science, I know that their "Physical Science" class is often called "Itegrated Physics and Chemistry" (and Dr. Shorman teaches for a homeschool group somewhere in TX). From my own research on their website, it seems the BJU Physical World book covers most of the topics in the DIVE Physical Science (whereas the Apologia only covers about half - not sure of the exact amount). And, yes, I would think that either with DIVE or without it would count as an IPC course. hth!

I usually did the same topic for a week in both history and science (although, some times we did have to cover two topics in history). But, I tried to do 45 minutes to an hour (tops) daily for each subject. Usually IRL it was 45 min for history and about 30 for science. ETA: When I first started homeschooling, it was more important to me that we "finish the list no matter how long it took". Then I relaxed and trusted the slow-and-steady process of consistent daily doses, and realized that it was better to do less and do it well and not tire my kids out. So then, I started watching the clock, and when the hour was up, I made the decision to either start where we were the next day, or just completely drop what was left undone, and continue on with the next day's plans. As time progressed, I got better at planning realistic plans. :D I figured if I had a hard time during the last 30 minutes of Tues/Thurs classes in college, it would be pure torture doing hour and a half classes with elementary kids. ;)

Well...honestly? My 12 year old boy had a spike of efficiency in the middle of this year after his hormones quit surging. (And age certainly has less to do with this than whenever it is that the hormones hit.) When hormones are surging (just before and during the big growth & "development" spurt - you will know it when it happens ;)), my heart-to-heart advice is to be a nice momma and let some of your well-laid plans fall to the way-side. It's like the brain has turned to mush. Then, be prepared once that surge has subsided to find things to fill in the cracks - extra reading, for example, because suddenly all the things that used to take 8 or 9 hours to finish will be done by 1pm. Of course, this is a boy. I don't know about girls...yet!

You can outline from SOTW, just don't try to outline the *entire* story. Pick and choose a portion to outline (3-5 paragraphs) that focuses on one person/event/place. (IOW, Don't overwhelm.) Slow and steady wins the race!

Well, obviously, *some* things have changed for the better - :lol: And, erikdeb, I *do* appreciate your post! It is just that much more reassuring to hear that someone like your daughter is enjoying it.

OK - yeah - the DVD for TL I is pretty basic and the teacher goes very slowly. So slowly my DS would watch it in some sort of "Fast Forward" mode (like 2x or something), and you couldn't even tell it was on Fast Forward. I haven't bought the materials for TL-2 yet (and don't know that I will). But, the Latin class, which was something that was a have-to-do at my house was a perfect blend of holding DS's feet to fire, yet giving him enough chances to get it right. (We went to a smaller, Baptist college, and the professors there pretty had much the same philosophy ~ the point being for the student to learn the material, not for the teacher to fail them.)

Yes!!! My DD LOVES her worksheets! And cut-and-paste! and art and science and all that stuff that smells like "real school". As long as it's fun and not hard - LOL! And, boy, that MFW Board is very well organized. I hadn't looked at the boards for the individual years before. Cool! Thank you guys so much! You have encouraged me more than you know. I have always tried to keep going in spite of any pain (tho' I admit nausea is my Kryptonite - LOL!) I am hoping and praying this doctor I will see tomorrow (Wed.) has been sent to me by God, and what looks like the worst will actually turn out to be for the best. Thank you, again, for giving of yourselves, and your time. May God bless you and your children and your husbands richly!!