Oh, Michelle, this is wonderful! It will take some work to figure this out - but this is like IEW for lab reports. I think I can handle this. Thank you so much!

Soooo, I am tossing around: -Biblioplan, which I've used in the past, but Streams of Civilization and History of US seem old for 4th graders, and are scheduled frequently. Considering using it for ds 12, who wants to keep studying in the context of the whole world and not just US history, and something else for the others. - Sonlight Core 4 for the youngest three, with History of US scheduled separately for ds12 and colorful books thrown in for my visual guys. (ds12 could read through SOTW 4 on his own if he'd like) - HOD for youngest three - using Beyond (I think, it's the American history year for 7-9), with the supplement for the 4th graders, and something else for ds12. - WP American Story II (which I own) for the youngest three, and something else for ds12. I didn't love the scheduling at all though... Well.... I think part of it is trying to study from 1850-modern day world history and US history in one school year - LOL! It's just a lot to cover. (Edited: I think I would do the SL Core 4 and add in the SOTW-4 without also adding in the History of the US of the options above.) I know from scheduling SOTW-4 myself that there were some weeks we didn't even read from the Kingfisher encyclopedia to introduce the topic - all we did was read SOTW. We read one story a day. We might have copied a map. We wrote an outline or a narration, and that was it. I imagine with any program that adds in extra books, it would get confusing. (Especially for young ones.) I would encourage you to shelter your young ones (they will be *going* into 4th grade??) next year. There was material in Modern history that my then-5th grader told me he would have preferred not to have known (nukes and lynchings), and I decided that history was over for him that year (at the death of JFK). Also, just because material is scheduled to be covered doesn't mean you must cover it. IOW, for the in-depth history assignment, choose *one* history source a day for your twins, if that helps. Or, choose one or two topics spread over the whole week for them, while letting your 7th grader read some things independently. (You can do this *whatever* curriculum you decide on.) So, you could do like we did and choose to use a different story out of SOTW every day *or* you could choose to study ...oh...let's pretend...Abraham Lincoln on M/T/W from SOTW and 2 other sources and then study Helen Killer on Th/F out of SOTW and an additional source. Meanwhile, 7th grader is studying ALL the sources on ALL the topics for that week (usually 4 or 5 topics/wk, tho' hopefully Abe gets more than 1 day IRL - LOL!). Does that make sense? Probably not, but I'm sure you'll figure it out for yourself - LOL!

I haven't actually started MFW. I admit I turned to it because I have 3 kids in 3 very different learning stages, and some health issues of my own and a very tight outside schedule helping my DH's business. I have always planned my own history and lit using WTM and just couldn't do it anymore - and I admit I could very well be projecting all that onto you - if so, please forgive me, and ignore me. BUT - isn't there alot of freedom with MFW to vary the amount of "challenge" for each student? I know that they are very into Charlotte Mason - but that there are other users who post here that combine MFW with WTM. So, for example, if you want to up the ante for your 7th grader, could you add in outlining next year? I have been told that the 1850-Modern Times year includes outlining, but I think it's the outlining in the SOTW-AG, which I can't whole-heartedly recommend. I would recommend outlining from a portion of the SOTW story *or* just a portion of one of the MFW sources. But, even if you did the SOTW-AG outlining, that wouldn't be the end of the world. I just think it's frustrating because the outlines leave out so much information, it's hard to figure out what the original outliner thought was important enough to outline. (ETA: I don't know that "outlining" should be equated with "deeper." What do you think would have made last year's study deeper? I would really like to know since I'll be doing EXP-1850 with my 7th grader this year!) Don't forget that a 7th grader will likely be starting Apologia General Science, which is difficult, especially at the beginning of the year. (It seems the beginning of the book is more difficult than the last part of the book to me.) Another way to go deeper would be with literature. You might consider Lightning Literature (our own Christine has free schedules at her Core Foundations Blog). If your DS hasn't read the books on the 7th grade List in the WTM, I would highly recommend that to you. I really believe that the literature listed in the Logic Stage section of WTM is what prepared my older DS for the Ancient Great Books. For your twins, it sounds to me like they just need more time with free reading. I think I read that MFW schedules Book Basket for 20 minutes daily, but the WTM suggestion for free reading is more like an hour a day. (That's in addition to "Literature" time.) So, maybe there's a happy medium somewhere? Maybe Twin #1 might need to have some videos and/or audio books from the library allowed during that "Book Basket/Free Reading" Time. (not necessarily every day, but try a video once a week?) And, Twin #1 might choose non-fiction (and stick with the same topic for three weeks - that's ok! who says he can't?) While Twin #2 can choose a good historical fiction and read to his heart's content. (Actually, sounds like he might enjoy some good videos, too.) I just hate to see you throw away a good tool when you have kids who "like it" and "want to continue." Change it. Tweak it. Make it work for you. And, please tell me what you think would have made it deeper. I would really like to know.

Ok - I have to admit that we did that same experiment, and even *I* couldn't have written a lab report about observing the pond that made it actually sound like an experiment. LOL, (I think - IDK - I might cry...) How in the world do you teach a 14yo boy to write a lab report about going to "look at a lake" and make it sound like that without finding someone else's lab report (didn't have yours at the time - LOL) and saying, "Here, make a Key-Word Outline and re-write this." Isn't that what we used to call cheating? Although, if I could get really good reports for him to compare his to for several labs in a row, then that might help. He could re-write his using the model, and (hopefully) not need the models after a while. Honestly, my ds is a good writer for a 9th grader. But, if I put his lab report beside his literary analysis paper - you wouldn't think it was the same "thinker." Does that make sense? I'm sorry - I've completed robbed this thread....

We'll be doing Apologia Chemistry this year, and I have to confess - science labs are the bane of my homeschool existence. (Actually, of my entire educational experience since fourth grade. :glare:) Is there a way you could share your lab report requirements (formats and contents, etc.) and rubrics? I know that's a lot to ask. (Do you by *any* chance have Answer Keys for Apologia Chemistry Labs?) Thanks for any help you can give!

I haven't used/seen it, but specific to SAT/ACT Testing, you might start a new thread asking about ChalkDust's SAT Review. There might be other programs out there as well, I just thought of that one re-reading the thread.

I guess switching Geometry texts is a common problem.... My poor son switched from the college-level ChalkDust to LOF and went bust. Don't know if LOF now has a Home Companion or not, but at the time it did not, and so neither program had a sufficient number of practice problems for my DS. I would definitely recommend the TT for an average kid. (We went with Saxon, but my DS is younger, and needed to go back to Algebra I. For us, it was a good thing.)

Have you checked the IEW Yahoo group files? It is called IEWFamilies. There's a file there that will help you figure out which IEW Unit to use for different types of writing prompts (for any curriculum). I'm sure if you ask, the moderators there will be glad to assist you further. (There are *LOTS* of files there, and sometimes I get lost trying to find a particular one - LOL!)

Not too dry. (but that's just because I'm such a fun mom - ha! LOL) Because when we outlined ala WTM in the past, we used the KIHW and it was the introduction to the topic (and I had pre-read all that was coming later in the week), I usually helped with the outline. That way, if there was a cryptic sentence (one that assumed the reader had an insight or knowledge that my DS didn't have), I could fill him in. This was really helpful when we studied modern history, and my boys were split in 8th and 5th grades - and we did the outlines together. Also, I could use that time as a discussion time, and know that the rest of the week would be pretty independent. I think it would have been "dry" or overwhelming if I had handed DS the book and said, "Go outline this." My 7th grader will be using MFW next year, and I haven't decided how we're going to approach outlining....

I just finished doing TruthQuest Greece and Rome with my 9th grader. Thoroughly loved it for him! But I have to ask you: Did you and the kids like SOTW? Were you excited about SOTW-2 *before* you were introduced to TQ? The answers to those questions are more important than what anyone else says... ********************************************************************************************************************** ETA: Sorry, I'm so tired, and will probably be asleep before you answer, so I'll just say I don't see how TQ could claim to be "...more fun & understandable..." than SOTW and the AG. As I mentioned before, I loved TQ with my high schooler. It was a wonderful living books curriculum for high school that incorporated a christian worldview. But, even DS often came away saying it was sometimes too much of a good thing. So, my vote is obviously for SOTW. Best wishes! No matter what you decide, I'm sure you'll have a great year!

:iagree: .

He's done 25 Labs altogether. The ones missing (in my post) are: a leaf collection & identification mixing red cabbage & ammonia & noting color (pH) - I think we did this in middle school, too a microscope lab (which would have helped on the test, but he has had lots of microscope work this year) fruit classification bird identification (sit outside and identify birds) ********************************************************** I think I'll re-do my grading sheet to include only the labs that we did do, and include the drawings that I had him do. Doesn't sound like I'll be nixing anything earth-shattering. Thanks, guys!

Apologia Biology: Here's the scoop... I had let my DS skip a couple of experiments in the first semester of Biology because we had already done them in middle school science. I made a note of this on the "grading sheet" I made up for first semester. But, then while he was doing Module 14 (2nd semester), I had a change in my migraines (short story: hormonal changes this year must have "clicked on" and now a brain injury from childhood is somehow causing my veins and arteries in the left side of my body to spasm during my migraines, causing it to burn and tingle and feel like I'm having a heart attack) And, it took about a month for me to find a doctor who got to this diagnosis, so DS did not do *any* of the 3 labs for Module 14. (and did not do so well on the Module 14 test, either - go figure ;)) He also only completed only 1 Lab each (out of 2 possible each) for Modules 15 and 16. (and basically he did Modules 14 - 16 on his own, to be honest). But, he's a kid who did the work - he didn't cheat. So....here's my question: Do I just write a note explaining that "the teacher was sick" and excuse the missing labs, or do I make him do the labs now? I'm afraid without the labs the colleges won't accept the course as a lab-based science? He did do all the dissections - although, we did demolish the poor crayfish. Thankfully, the other 3 were successful - LOL! Thanks for your help! ******************************************************* ps - Older DS would have done the 2nd lab for Module 15, but his younger brother ate all the fruit.... Twice.... In younger brother's defense, the man-child has grown an inch a month every month for the last 15 months.... And he wonders why I'll only buy him 3 pairs of shorts at a time?! :lol:

Well, I'm glad I got to read it, however quickly, before it disappeared. ;) I do know that this man is in the uneviable position of having to let a very high number of teachers go if enrollment does not drastically increase. However, I do *not* think he said *anything* to encourage my DS to enroll in his school. DS hasn't asked about enrolling - at - all - since this conversation, and this is a school that we had toured years ago before we moved to the area (when DS was entering 2nd grade), and he liked the school then, and he has friends now that go to the school. Our biggest concern (my DH and I), was that this man asked DS to keep the conversation private. (My DH teaches this man's children at Aikido, so he's not a complete stranger.) So, anyway, I had to ask DS did he say anything to the effect that they had a "special relationship" and such. At which point, DS burst out laughing, and finally said no, that the man only meant not to go bragging to the other kids - not to keep it private from his parents. So, we all breathed a huge sigh of relief, talked through the whole thing, and I haven't thought that much about it until I sat down to put together DS's grades. I will just be so glad when 9th grade is officially on paper and tucked away! I think I need to be off-line til then. Thank you all for being here. I am constantly amazed at how generous this board truly is!

Thanks! I'm sorry my post was somewhat snippy. I do appreciate the encouragement.

We have a very good Christian school in the area (we live in one the best school districts in the Atlanta area, and this school competes for the best students). One the teacher/administrators for the Christian school, a couple of public high-school administrators, and several high school teachers go to our church. The Christian school administrator taught my DS in Sunday school during his middle school years. He subbed for the high school class last Sunday, and asked my DS to stay after for a private talk. He was greatly encouraging to my son - telling him he *had* to go to college, that he was so mature in his thinking, not to be discouraged and let the other kids drag him down, that he would write recommendations for him, blah, blah, blah.... BUT - then came all the comments about homeschooling, and not being able to get into a good college, etc. - comments which only mirrored the numerous, smaller comments made throughout the last few months by the handful of others. So, these are not *college* people - these are high-school teachers and administrators. I don't know what they're seeing, or if they're "seeing" anything at all. And right now I'm not in a place to care. I have been dealing with health issues brought on by a childhood injury and hormonal changes and migraines reacting together, and I am just not in a place emotionally or physically to want to deal with setting anyone or anything straight. I just want to get my disorganized ducks in a row and take care of my own. :tongue_smilie: (OhElizabeth - ROFLOL - I admit I let things slide when my entire left side was burning & tingling & numb for 4 solid weeks. But I refuse to write essays, and everyone here *knows* I can't do science experiments - LOL!!!! Seriously, I chose My Father's World for next year's history & lit, and I signed DS up for the Lost Tools of Writing Class with Memoria Press for next year so that all his classes will have pre-written lesson plans. I know that God led me through that dark, dark place to lead me into something better. We're getting there.)

Yes - and good luck with your year!

Thanks for the encouragement! I *know* that - I went to public school. But, it's easy to forget. It's easy to buy into the hype that it's hard for homeschoolers to go to college - I've been hearing that alot lately from teachers at church. Glad you posted!

Thank you. I'm sure my children thank you as well. ;) Taking a :chillpill: and making better plans for the next 3 years! :lol:

ETA: Initial question answered. But if you're curious, read on: =) ***************************************************** I'm curious, first, if I should start timing all our classes. I admit that our 9th grade history classes often turned into 1 1/2 hour-plus sessions daily, if you include all the reading and discussions. And, I have very little written work to back that up. I'm frankly procrastinating at writing that one up, though it was the class that turned my child from a "child" who thought in very concrete terms of black-and-white and us-vs-them into a compassionate adult who now sees the world full of *people* iykwim. I know if I give him anything less than an "A" it would be highway robbery; I don't know how to justify that A. (I'm hoping that since its Ancient History, it will be an elective and not examined that closely.) BUT - my actual question concerns our experience with Apologia science (NOOOOOooooo!!!) We basically followed the Donna Young schedule for Biology, taking the full year to complete the basic course. And, I anticipate giving him a full credit for the course. But, after reading your comments about timing the course, I must admit that most days he only spent about 30 minutes on this class. (Labs definitely took longer. The study guide days took longer.) So, next year when it comes time to do Chemistry...should I have him write down the starting time, and follow the schedule, but KEEP WORKING FOR A FULL HOUR EVERY DAY and then pick up in the schedule wherever that happens to be? And then, if we finish the basic book early, order the 2nd book, and work as far as we can until the end of the year? I'm not worried about finishing the 2nd book necessarily. And, of course you know if I suddenly implement this new idea, the problem is, it's suddenly going to take an hour to finish whatever is written on the schedule for the day...as this is not a science-oriented kid, and the "reward" for finishing early last year was that - he "finished early". sigh!

You are not seeing much on punctuation in grade 4 because in grade 4, R&S has not touched on much beyond compound sentences. As other sentence structures are introduced, the student will be taught how to punctuate them. It is frustrating when your student wants to write beyond what they have learned to punctuate. But, I suppose that is good practice in learning conciseness.

I mean to skip the lessons that are about writing. So, in the sixth grade book I recommended to the original poster, (you can see the TOC here), you would skip lessons 4, 8, 13, 16, and 17, etc. Actually, I would probably have my students read through those specific lessons if I were doing IEW for writing and I were a new homeschooler - because IEW does not specifically teach how to logically organize & develop a paragraph. That's even what I did last year with my 6th grader. I do think R&S does a better job at teaching paragraph development than IEW does. I didn't make my 6th grader do any of the writing assignments for those R&S "writing" lessons, though I think there were a few worksheets that went with them that I had him do. (Usually, he would have to read two paragraphs and choose the better of the two and explain why it was better.) Then, I would have him keep the principles in mind when he did his next IEW assignment (or his next cross-curricular assignment). Does that make sense? There were quite a few writing assignments that we just skipped out right, especially the ones that dealt with taking notes and writing reports. We did read the ones on writing stories, because they deal with the beginnings of literary analysis. We also did the ones on Descriptions and Poetry. I think we usually just read the lesson, and kept going in writing. We had a daily short but sweet grammar time - but remember, he's been doing R&S grammar since 3rd grade! And we also did writing every day. I'm not sure that every kid could do that, but he really hit his stride last year. The IEW really helped his grammar - REALLY! He knew adverb- and adjective-clauses instinctively before we got to them in the book because the IEW had already introduced them in a fun way. So, I think the two are a great combo. DH is home, and my DS's 9th grade transcript is still in a mess on the floor. OOPs - must go!

Yes, I think using R&S-6 with everyone will be great (not to mention easier on you)! They will actually learn a lot of grammar while doing the IEW, which will make the R&S that much easier to teach. Make sure to have your oldest one pay very close attention to the punctuation prompts in the IEW. That is the best way to learn punctuation rules, anyway. (I mean, you want *everyone* to, but your oldest has the shortest amount of time, and the most habits to unlearn - ask me how I know. ;)) If your olders are prepping for SAT's, you might also want to go ahead and plan for a mid-year, sometime after Unit-7 or 8, IEW High School Essay Intensive Week. Then, every Friday or every-other Friday, have a 25-minute timed essay to practice getting ready for the SAT. Just a thought~

I would not use R&S-7 as the writing instruction for a high schooler because (and I am going by memory from 3 years ago) it's primary focus is grammar - and advanced grammar at that. It does go into paragraph development, but high schoolers need to be advancing into essay development (at least by the end of the year). What I would advise is to use R&S-6 for grammar. Go as slowly as needed. I would not jump the gun into 7, because the first part of 7 reviews 6th so quickly it will make your students' heads spin if they have never had grammar. And, actually, if truth were told, what I might *really* advise, as much as I love using R&S for myself, is to look at Analytical Grammar. (Because it is set up for a student who doesn't have any grammar background, and if it eases your conscience, it *is* a WTM recommendation.) There is also this grammar program that is set up for group instruction, written by the author of the Excellence in Literature program. (I have neither seen or used it, but it might be worth checking out, given your circumstance, IDK. Or, you could use what you found - I haven't seen it, either.) Have you watched the TWSS videos, or will you watch them as you go throught the SWI? They will definitely help you apply the SWI concepts to the differing abilities of all your students. (The "robbing the rich to teach the poor" concept will be priceless in your situation, and one you'll really be able to use.) I don't think you can go wrong using the SWI-C for all of them to get a good start in writing. You can always take the concept they are learning in the SWI and apply it across the curriculum. If you don't feel ready to plan that yourself, you might look at getting some of the extra resources available from IEW to help. Best wishes for a great year!

:iagree::grouphug::iagree::grouphug::iagree: Only (very late) last night one of your posts from last year saved me from certain disaster as I desperately try to piece together the mess that became my oldest's 9th grade year! Thank you for sharing your life-school here with us. May God bless you and your DD as she starts her own journey!