FWIW, starting in OM5 the materials are written to the student, so the expectation at least is the child is taking on more/most of the responsibility. It's also possible to stretch out a year so that you can get 2 kids working together (but perhaps doing separate math or whatever). Anyway, not saying OM has to be long term (not committed to doing so myself, LOL) but just saying there are ways people manage and/or combine just as you would with any other curricula. It's less of an issue (and OM is less "Waldorf" pass OM4, I believe). My motto seems to be, 20 year plans, but live a year at a time (more like, day at a time).

THere's been some interesting studies (mainly in the UK) and much of the time the articulation improves just as fast and as well without therapy, especially if the therapist uses a mixture of styles. (I tried to find the ref to the paper, but can't find it. I researched the topic back when I was deciding for my dd, but didn't keep the links.) This isn't true for extreme cases or if hearing is impaired, but in a preschooler, I would start by making time for phonics. With both my girls, their articulation was poor and with both the thing that fixed it was LEARING TO READ. They needed to SEE the words to hear the fine differences. My 2nd would ask me to write certain words she had trouble saying on a post it note so she could go and read it (I would write it phonetically). I realized that I was exactly the same way when I learned a foreign language (I have to read the word when I listen to it to be able to hear all the sounds). Soooo, if your kid tends to the visual, you may find that teaching reading resolves the problem. I suspect that is also why most speech issues aren't formally diagnosed until a child reaches 8yo (when they can usually read fairly well): http://campbell.k12.va.us/tes/msisk/media/articulationnorms.pdf Notice how many of the sounds would be considered normal (well 10% of kids) to not master before age 7 or 8! My 3rd child is learning to read early and his speech is much clearer, especially on things like diphthongs. I think reading, phonetic awareness, and speech are just very connected. I would certainly use a reading program that really stressed the articulation of the sounds (K12's does a great job talking about voiced/unvoiced and tongue position as well as phonetic awareness of sounds at beginning middle/end) -- honestly most K phonetic programs are very similar to what he would be doing in a speech therapy. So, why not try to start by making time to start phonics with intense phonetic awareness. Make a recording of speech now and in a month and see if there is improvement.

:iagree: With a DD who'd never taken a test or been given a grade/score/evaluation or been in a class and yet was a natural perfectionist by age 4 I don't buy the idea that real perfectionism is a learned trait. I always got 100% but am NOT a perfectionist, so the first time I struggled it was more like I'd always expected to struggle, so it didn't phase me. On the other hand, more experience with HOW to struggle would have been helpful, but the point is I just was not and am not a perfectionist. But my dd is and will/would be regardless. Helping her deal with that is a major challenge (esp since it is outside my experience, LOL).

I agree with the "you don't" -- at least at this point. If your state mandates starting age for K, it's just not a battle worth fighting. As you know as a teacher, kids enter K at a wide range of abilities. Your child is just lucky that her "school" will be 100% customized to her actual abilities. Other things to consider are that *some* kids are precocious more than gifted and you might like to be able to slow things down or take rabbit trails in the future. The other issue you might have (down the line) is that some states make it very difficult for homeschoolers to skip grades because some folks have used this to abuse the system to avoid periodic testing (skip and hold back so their child is never an X-grader and doesn't have to take some standardized test), or there is at least of fear of folks doing so. So some states will say you start based on age, you follow with that unless and until you graduate them (early, most likely). And like others have said, mostly grade only matters for extracurriculars (age grouping) unless you are putting your child back into B&M school, in which case they will likely do placement testing.

I just wanted to say that I agree that serious thought should be given before "skipping levels" in Waldorf (e.g, OM K thru 4), because there is built-in a lot of ideas about child dev at each level. However, modern developmental neurobiology has shown us that there really is a wide range of "normal" and I don't think it is so simple. So I don't feel bound by Steiner's plans any more than I feel bound by anyone else's. ;) When you start talking about the accelerated child, those children whose nature is to think abstractly and deeply at very young ages rather than being pushed to do so, it can be a bit harder sometimes to find the sweet spot where you are maintaining the childlike wonder and exploration without boring them to tears. An example is my dd for whom the WTM cycles would be torture because she has a nearly didactic memory and finds repetition painful -- basically, I've only got one shot at each period in history but can go to any depth and she'll retain it and be able to recall and integrate it with later learning. Totally shot my initial lesson planning! :lol: I have OM1 and OM2, I think both are lovely, and think the best way to tell which is best for a child is when OM is kind enough to send extended samples so you can try it out for a couple weeks. :D I personally do tend to keep the level near age and add on any head acceleration by going to greater depths, so I do understand the argument for matching level to age. OTOH, I recognize the individuality of each child and can see that there may be reason to move up or down a level to fit. :)

I'm not an expert, but when I was researching Waldorf I found it's important to realize there is the teaching method (pedagogy) and the underpinnings (historical and philosophical). The method is very focussed on developing the whole child (mind, spirit, heart), not pushing academics too early (letting a child explore the world as a child), encouraging development of creativity and the "thinking child" (rather than just learning skills) with plenty of handicrafts, arts, music, and crafts. The underpinnings tie deeply into Steiner's ideas of anthroposophy (human wisdom), eurythmy, and his view of child development/stages. Even the colors on the walls have deep meaning in a Waldorf classroom. I think you have to take these things in historical context. Rudulf Steiner developed the Waldorf school in Germany in the early 1900s. He, Jean Piaget, Sigmund Frued, Charlotte Mason, and Elizabeth Montessori were all contemporaries. The world was being shaped by forces like WWI and fields like psychology and child development were in their infancy. I think CM, Montessori, and Waldorf are often all talked about like they are almost the same (being "arts and crafty"), but there are some deep fundamental differences to consider. In Italy, Dr Montessori (first female MD in Italy) developed her schools in response to the ghetto children on Rome, with a focus on observing the child (belief in innate wisdom of child to optimize their own learning) and develop practical skills. It is a rather no-nonsense approach aimed at taming the creativity to focus on life skills that are of practical use. In Waldorf, arts and crafts are about expression and developing the child's heart/etc, not so much practical life skills. In some ways, Montessori and Waldorf are polar opposites. In England, C. Mason developed her method, focussed on "living books" and practical life skills. It tends to be 'bookish', filled with great literature, and more art/music appreciation than practice. With short lessons, narrations, and no twaddle it is efficient, but still puts emphasis on the inner creativity and experience of the child. In the first levels, CM and Waldorf have similar focus on nature, crafts, and music, but their reasoning is different and they diverge quickly. CM is more of a classical education method. Each method will resonate with different folks. HTHs. Again, I'm trying to summarize my understanding from my own research, not imply any expertise. :)

Although I agree with a lot of this (Waldorf's value can be undone by pushing too far), I would avoid the word "damaging" :D and point out that Waldorf was based on one man's idea of child development as understood at the turn of the century (about the same time as Jung and CM and folks were doing their things, too). Waldorf uses different metrics besides age to tell when kids are moving twix stages and it is very Waldorf to customize an education to *meet the child where they are* head, heart, and spirit. Parents of accelerated kids, including those teaching 3rd grade (or higher) math to younger students aren't pushing their kids, just meeting them where they are. ;) I have a 3yo who reads books (taught himself letters and sounds at 2) and knows addition facts thru 12 (from listening in to his sister) -- can I really start him with "this is capital A" and "let's count THREE beads" in 2 years? Does he have to forego OM because he doesn't fit the Waldorf dev model? The special challenge parents of highly accelerated kids have when it comes to implementing Waldorf is exactly how to do this when there is this disparity and when curricula assume certain maturity or ages for certain levels, which is often an issue. I find OM a wonderful platform (at or near grade level) from which I can accelerate in math and explore topics more deeply (like science). I also find MCT LA a good match in style. So although I do think it is good to caution against people haphazardly piling stuff on top of Waldorf to make it "more rigorous" (unnecessary in general), I don't believe Waldorf is all or nothing.

Thought you'd be amused...now I'm going thru the same dilemma -- with my eldest. Occurred to me that she might benefit from doing more structured writing OM-style. She'll be starting 4th, but finished K12's 4th grade LA/Math 18mo ago. She's a perfectionist, and thought how many book reports does a little kid really need to write? So I have had her doing free journaling, which cured her dislike of writing (she's now a fiend for writing stories and journaling). So, OM4 for the playfulness, easy writing, and love the art focus? OM 5 which would be more on level for her writing? Or OM6 for a stretch (but might shut her writing down ala perfectionism, but hey, I like the topics, haha)? Since I hs 7 days/wk year-round, I'm leaning towards OM4, maybe working thru it a bit faster? But then, the point isn't to get there faster, but wiser. As I mentioned in the other post, I now know I can take any topic and go deeper if we wish. :) PS: I'm sure she'll still want to do her siblings OM lessons with them, including (sigh) circle time. LOL

There is something to be said for prepping the mind instead of repetition (I know, not a wholly classical notion). But IME if you teach a child to learn and think, even if it seems less "intellectual" or "information/skill dense" in the long run you may end up ahead. I taught my HS aged niece and my 8yo algebra and biology together. The teen had 2yrs of algebra, my dd none, but had been after me to start teaching it. For algebra, I gave my dd a 20min pre-lesson at 7am, before classes. For biology, both girls spent 1 week doing a unit at the MS level (normally a month worth), then 2-3 weeks completing the HS-level unit, then another week doing university level work, for 3 units. The teen completed the worksheets faster (more experienced extracting info for homework), but at the end with the exception of quadratic equations, (and I will deny saying this if asked by either of them) my 8yo pwned the teen across the board (retains what she learns). :lol: What does that say? Well, aside form that ps kids are taught to do hw and get thru tests rather than learn, IMO it says that a child who has been exposed to a lot and taught to think, can absorb astounding amounts of information AND retain AND put it in perspective of other knowledge. The ps districts here have the teaching of the proper use of a comma broken down over a 4-5 year period. WTH??? My 1st learned all her grammar rules early, my 2nd none except exposure until after becoming a strong reader and later. By then (end of first grade), I just told her about commas in 5 minutes and she hasn't made a mistake since. Anyway, I'm not saying what will work for all kids, and this post isn't specifically about OM or Waldorf. The same discussion comes up with MM and Singapore which don't teach math topics over the same sequences as standard US. Just a reminder that sometimes what seems like "rigorous" may just be repetitive or inefficient (to some). The end point isn't 2nd grade, so unless you are intent on putting your child back in ps in the K-3 years it shouldn't be an issue with OM (which does adhere to its state's guidelines). Just humbling that sometimes the less I try to be rigorous the more my kids learn, especially my Waldorfy middle child. :lol:

No plans, but open to move if there is somewhere better for the kids. We've moved a lot, but this is the only place it's been difficult for the kids to make connections, so don't feel attached.

Hey, I've never seen a curric I wouldn't tweak. :D Everyone can give you advice, and on the general Curric board you've gotten tons (many from folks who've never seen OM). My advice would be to use the sample lesson for OM2 and OM3 and give it a try during the summer and see how you would use it IRL. That's all that really matters. In the XP, someone mentioned that you could do all of the Waldorfy stuff on your own, and that is certainly true. Plenty of moms do and excel at it (I can name many from this board). If you do, it may not be worth it. In *my* case, I excel at the hardcore subjects and can organize and construct independent programs all day long. I also knit and bake and sew and garden. But I (ahem) SUCK at doing daily crafty/folksy/circle-time/stories-and-draw-pictures type stuff. I can do it *sometimes*, but I burn. out. fast. THAT is exactly what OM gives me. It's this wonderful childlike playful learning environment. NOT the most accelerated. NOT the most efficient. But even my mini-Sheldon-child loves it. And there is learning and thought-provoking bits that complements the MCT and the AOPS and high school biology. And I suck it up thru circle-time and glue-sticks and playing the recorders. So, I like it for the same reason I like that my 9yo can read serious novels and then enjoy rereading the entire MTH series. But love it or hate it, whether it is worthwhile for YOU I think will require you trying it out, and a week or two with the sample lessons should be a good indicator. ;)

Just wondering what states offer the best support for early entrance and dual enrollment, esp for homeschoolers. Especially, how can we get some college credits for free (or cheap) before 18. :)

I never thought of ds as being "sensitive", more like "bullet-proof". I mean, I always thought if sensitive in terms of babies that startle and cry a lot or kids getting anxious around new people, and ds is Mr Social. But the more I think of it, perhaps he is sensitive in a different way and our home environment is just set up to soothe a sensitive child already, so it hasn't been apparent (AP, HSing, strong routine). When I look at Elaine Aron's checklist, he scores 15, which is high enough to be highly sensitive. More importantly, when I think about the questions...how gently we have to correct him, him empathetic and intuitive he is, how he covers his ears at noisy places and even at the small waterfall....definitely something I need to look into more deeply. Anyway, thank you all for putting this onto my parenting radar! ETA: I could never do the CIO with night terrors (plus he shares the room with his sisters, so not fair). Early on, we'd take him down and found cartoons (which he'd never get to watch normally) seems to calm him, then he'd just pass out after a few minutes and we'd take him back to bed. Lately, even when he doesn't seem to see/hear me, if I ask if he wants a bottle or milk, he nods, quiets and falls right to sleep. I never get a bottle (he's too old), but it's a comfort association that seems to cut through. Weird.

I guess I should ask what you hope to get from OM? I used K12 when I started out and when I left that was very anti packaged curric, esp full curric since point of hs for me is to customize. ;) But then dd#2 is this artsy impish kid that just really does well with the Waldorfy-style. I decided to try OM for HER to "keep me honest" and not skip over the "soft stuff" I'm not as good at, plus her older sis was getting most of my attention, so it gave us something special for her. But then it turned out to be a great thing for ALL of the kiddos, including her older sister and younger brother (who mainly just does circle time and listens to the stories). So now that I have a 3.5yo who is reading short stories and answering his sisters addition math drill questions, I can see using OM for some time as a frame or scaffolding, the common ground from which they can each go off and do their more in depth academics. I do think OM encourages them to think about things in a different way that is complimentary to their "harder, higher level" work. I do units of deeper/harder science/history/LA following up on the OM topics. So, that's how it works for us. But it really depends on your goals and how you want to use the curriculum. For a self-starter, it might even be a nice open-and go, since it would leave space to pursue rabbit-trails and interests. But for someone else, it wouldn't be worth it. Bought used, the syllabus isn't too bad and if you use it gentle can be resold for about what you bought it for next year. :p

Kai, I really enjoyed your Blog and found it very true for us as well. My accelerated 3rd grader (soon to be 4th) is enjoying OM2 immensely. She is doing it with her 1st grade sis. The arts and whimsy help balance the harder-core materials she is also doing (MCT which they do together and is still so far easy for her; Algebra and Challenge math; Holt (high school) Biology). So yes, I find at or even below level, OM can be a meaningful part of an accelerated child's curricula, but plan on supplementing, at least by pursuing topics to greater depth. For me it is the starting point, but I'm not bound by it. :D I think the weekly lesson plans really makes it easy to adapt to the child. The projects and stories are fun. They are ageless and remind me to encourage dd to enjoy things at age level, not just skill/intellect level, kwim?

Thank you all. Yes, I never consider going to bed myself until he's been asleep past that one hour mark. Sometimes he talks or giggles in his sleep, or sits bolt upright. A couple times he's gotten fearful and then as he rouses to waking croaks out, "can't...talk" -- I think he isn't awake enough to speak and is trying to answer me and it freaks him out sometimes. I will look into the sensitive and excitability resources mentioned. He is extremely creative. Interestingly during the day he's actually pretty mature for his age and calm. But when sleep comes.... Encouraging to hear similar kids outgrew it. Thanks.

My older 2 are significantly accelerated, but my youngest is different, and precocious. The girls are ahead because they learn easily and abstract natively, but for example I didn't teach them to read until their 5th b'day. My 3rd taught himself all his letters and sounds before his 2nd birthday and is now reading 20-word sentences and worlds like "little", can sound most words out at 3.5yo and really wants to start reading MTH books. He also spouts out his 7yo sister's math facts when I ask her (he'll be drawing in the other room and I'll hear him muttering all the answers before her). The thing is, he is also the only one of my kids who has night terrors, gets a bit "twitchy" in his sleep pattern, complains his feet hurt when he wakes up during the night (I think that may just be that his feet fall asleep the way he tucks his legs under), wakes up, have to soothe him, then he pass back out. Like he has an immature neurological system. Not every night, but pretty common esp if he misses his nap. He's also the only one to still take a nap past 2yo (thank goodness for that! LOL). Aside from that, he is a social, charming kid with great fine motor skills and stuff like that. I guess I am just wondering if one thing has anything to do with the other since they are both neurological, or if it is just luck being "hit by lightning twice". Anyone BTDT?

As a pp mentioned, the only way to cover biology or physical sic from a creationist perspective is to leave out a LOT of the scientific foundations for the subjects, so I would recommend getting hold of a copy of a standard textbook (from a ps or library) and comparing side by side. Personally, I do not think you can properly learn biology without understanding evolution, and I don't think you can teach evolution if you believe creationism is science. IMO genomics is the dominant area of current research of the past 20 years and the next 20 years in biology and medicine, it touches all branches of biologic sciences and it is not comprehensible without evolution. You can ignore this whole area of science if it doesn't agree with your religious beliefs, but if you are not a YE creationist you would be missing out on the most exciting thing going on in science right now. There are some great NOVA specials on the subject, too.

I use neu. Annotate+ The free version is great, I got the paid version for $2.99 to be able to more easily duplicate PDFs and push/pull with my dropbox (and I was using it so much I thought I'd pay the developers a couple bucks, :D), but the free version is fully useable (not a hobbled "demo" version). You put the files on the iPad form the iTunes App screen and then can e-mail them back to yourself. I set up "tags" for each kid so they can look at the docs for just them; I duplicated the workbook PDFs they are both using so they can move thru and annotate their own copies without buggering up each others. Works like a charm!

We school year round and anything more than a week *really* messed with our momentum and it is painful to get back on a roll, the longer off, the longer to get back in a rhythm. It reminds me of what they say about being bedridden -- when I was in I thought the Dr said it'd take 2 days to recover for each day I was in the bed, or some such. Sounds like recovering from days off, too. :lol: We are just getting back after 2 weeks off due to illnesses and family visiting and it reminds me why I don't do that. I've done 3-4 weeks for summer and ALWAYS regret it. What we tend to do instead is "active rest" -- we'll take a week of doing a light load, like just math and reading for 30-60 min total per day. Goes a lot better. I guess it also fits better with our philosophy that learning is a lifelong pursuit and not something that is confined to "school". But then, sometimes Mom needs a Break from planning! :D As usual, YMMV. May I ask, why are you drawn to a 3mo:1mo schedule?

If possible, look thru both yourself, either from the library or at a bookstore. I know it's heresy to say it here, but I can't stand OPG -- too much busywork feel, not as easy to adapt. I'm on my third child with 100EL, 3 very different kids, and it's great (for us). The blending from day #1 is really important to me -- why spend years trying to teach kids to blend later? Plus it's just easier to HEAR the word when you sound it out slowly, building it phonetically. The phenotype takes some getting used to, but I think it works. If your child starts to struggle, back up a week of lessons. Follow the "script" to start, but don't feel bound to it as you go on. It's very easy to adapt. I don't think there is one right answer, each has pros/cons. I think both will work and is solid. At the end of 100EL your dc WILL be reading at a solid 2nd grade level (and 200 words/page which I love because it also teaches the eye tracking and comfort with word-laden pages, so they are ready for easy chapter books). At the end the kids were fearless/confident readers, so building from there was easy. As to not enough phonics -- it's plenty for the natural speller/reader, but you can follow up with PR/RR or ETC or similar if you want to reinforce phonics rules (I did for my 2nd because of speech issues). Again though, the best programs the one that works for you. ;) ETA: my ins dd loved the 100EL stories so much I copied them into her own little "reader" and she STILL reads from it several times a week (she finished 100EL over a year ago).

Do you have to LIKE a hammer and saw to be a carpenter? No, but you better be willing to spend untold hours learning how to use them! Same with math and science -- unless you are going to be a mathematician, math is a tool used to solve scientific problems. But it is also the LANGUAGE science is written in, so you have to be able to read/write in it. That said, my eldest is very good at math, but doesn't LOVE it -- to her it is just a tool. She will be adept at using the tool, but never find great joy in welding it. That's ok. It means unless that changes, she probably won't become a mathematician or physicist, but she could become an MD or research scientist in another field that was more experimental and less computational. ;) I think the pp suggestion of looking thru a college catalog is an excellent suggestion. I'd also consider a book like Zaccaro's Real World Algebra to brush us your algebra skills. Algebra is a very powerful toolbox, but it is often taught poorly in school by teachers who barely understand it themselves. You might find that you actually LIKE it now. Maybe read up on the history of algebra a bit -- for some folks that may make it seem more meaningful. You want to master algebra before moving on to calculus, which is just another toolbox. Add statistics, and you will have all the math tools you need to excel. Good luck!

:iagree: I also agree that your dh needs to be the one to deal with your MIL, IL issues are really spouse issues because they are the only ones with any power to enforce the boundaries. If it makes you feel better, we *tried* to appease family on both sides during the first year of marriage, but after the T'Day debacle at our house shortly after our eldest was born we said ENOUGH. Now NO ONE would presume that they will see us on ANY holiday, or birthday and if they do (mil) they are quickly disabused of that notion. Holidays and birthdays are about our nuclear family, primarily the KIDS. We do Christmas on their schedule, we searched and rehid the Easter eggs 30 times yesterday. *IF* they are invited over it is with the understanding it's all about our kids (so no, the kids will NOT just "run along and play" so you can monopolize your son to talk about your azaleas) and they need to fit into our plans. Even my extremely passive-agressive MIL doesn't bother to ask or put up a fuss because dh made it clear this is just how it is. And you know what? It is absolutely LOVELY! No stress, just great family fun. What we do isn't for everyone, but my point is that every couple has to decide what is best for their family. You and dh need to decide for your family. Your ILs decided for theirs. They don't get to decide for you. The fact she thinks she gets a say (let alone to decide) shows she may love you and dh, but she has no respect for you. A common occurrence with parents of adult children. ;) Good luck!

I'd look at the scope and sequence for OM2. One of the complaints Waldorf purists have with OM is that is adapted to state standards, so I din't think you'd see a big difference...maybe in math and grammar. It kinda sounds like the mom and the teacher are in disagreement here. I really don't think you can push ds to "catch up" and think you can do more harm than good. I do think you can entice him to catch up -- why not just start OM2 now an ago thru the summer? With 36 weeks (lessons), you'd be done with OM2 before Spring, even taking breaks. I'm not trying to push OM, but again the reason I use OM is because I'm NOT Waldorfy myself. I'm much more WTM, but that's not what my kid(s) needed. And I realize since the academic rigor comes easily, I don't need it from my curricula (kinda preaching to the choir) -- I need a curriculum that "keeps me honest" in educating my whole child in THEIR style, not mine. ;) I guess if you're saying he'd LOVE OM but you're worried about him not catching up, I'd figure out how to work with OM to get ahead. I mean, as a teacher you understand that getting the child excited about learning is half the battle. The way the weekly framework is laid out is very flexible, and as you know K-3 in ps is all about skills (reading, arithmetic, writing, basic grammar) NOT content (who was president when, parts of a flower, etc). You can easily add more skills practice or skill depth to prep for a return to ps as needed. ETA: NOT at all saying you could not cobble together your own great program, but if you think ds would LOVE OM, I wouldn't be cobbling together a WTM program for him, but a more hands-on, gentle, crafty type program.

Good point, and I'm personally NOT a big "later is better" person, but in the OPs case, where you have a child that is generally "behind" and struggling in reading, I probably would NOT be concerned with SOTW or WTM but rather with focussing on the core skills (here, reading and math sense) and rebuild any lost enthusiasm and/or confidence. I wouldn't depend on reading "fairies" showing up, but that's exactly why a nice, gently, holistic education where you can focus on reading education and number sense could be a good thing, without distracting with narrations/dictations/handwriting/etc. Also, IMO OM is "meatier" than it is often given credit and it is easy to augment once the basics start clicking. I started using OM2 with my 1st and 3rd graders (mid-year and my 1st grader was already reading fluently, so OM1 would have probably been too light), both who are quite advanced academically. My first grader I supplement with more math, HWOT, and phonics practice (for speech). My eldest also does her own math, MCT LA, and cursive. Together they do latin and alternate history and science units (younger sis mainly tags along). They really enjoy the OM stuff, esp circle time, stories, and their MLBs. Anyway, just wanted to be clear that I wasn't saying to abandon academics (which OM wouldn't do anyways), but to consider a gentler approach with a focus on reading and math. I also agree that you want to be sure you aren't missing and learning disabilities, but to be honest at this age so much can just be learning differences. Unless his teacher's are suggesting LDs, I don't think I'd bother getting testing at this stage -- very few things can be DX'd in a K or 1st grader and the experience of working with your child will give you a very deep understanding of how they think and learn which *if* there were any issues, would help with the DX and management.