Read to dc, color, do crafts, etc but don't PUSH or you'll be paying for it for YEARS. My first dd picked up her letters around 2.5yo, so around 3yo I picked up a copy of 100EL and she made it thru about 15 lessons before stalling out. I'd keep pulling it out and trying it and different phonics programs. Right around her 5th birthday she was finally REALLY ready and ate 100EL up. Finished it in 4.5mo and was reading at 2nd grade level. By her 6th birthday she was reading chapter books. I taught her numbers early on "for fun", but didn't teach her addition (2 beads plus 2 beads is 4 beads) until a couple months before her 5th birthday. By 6 she was doing multiplication, and by her 9th birthday she was doing algebra. My 2nd dd started 100EL right around her 5th birthday as well, and by 7yo is blowing thru the MTH series 2 books a day. Their brother started teaching himself to read at 2yo (sounding out). My point isn't about what is "typical" (no such thing as a typical kid), but just that in these early years if you read to them and engage them (notice I'm not using the word "curriculum" and never used one before 5yo), they will learn and flourish at their own pace. It was a bit humbling to realize the less I *did* (or tried to do) the better they learned. I just have to provide the environment and then stay out of their way. :D As they get a bit older, that changes. I can't say whether your kids will be ready to learn to read at 3, or 5, or 7...and it's good to think about it, but *most* kids will in their own time. Some need a nudge. But not at 4yo. ;) Good luck! Relax and Enjoy! HTHs.

If you like Spalding, learn from your MIL and use that! I believe the issue with writing is often that the mechanics are pushed too heavily, too soon, especially before reading is cemented (kids get frustrated when they can't capture their thoughts). Pursue handwriting, focus on reading, and THEN add journaling, and keep it light and "as needed" (writing postcards, spelling word families) until MCT (2nd/3rd grade).

I think ancient history is easier for younger kids to understand (simpler motivations and needs) and society builds in complexity as the child is building in their ability to understand it -- natural fit. Personally I don't cover US history at all until late elementary. I think it is best understood in the context of the world history preceding it so their heads aren't filled with pat answers. THere are TONS of wonderful children's books for ancient history.

You usually do better with separate B&W and color laser printers. Printing a B&W page in a color printer is more expensive per page than printing it on a B&W laser (uses color consumables somehow). Honestly, I rarely use my color printer. I use my B&W laser tons, wish it had duplexing. I use my binder a lot and my laminator some. If I were you, Id' start with the binding machine. :D As to printers...Most laser printers are cheaper to replace once you have to replace the drum unit (YMMV), so I'd wear out your current unit (save up for a duplexing unit). You can get a cheap laser color printer for ~$200 if that is really important (and for color I wouldn't bother with duplexing and bells and whistles). With homeschooling 6, it shouldn't take long to kill your current printer and get a duplexing b&W. If you want color, I'd get that separate and you'll probably never need to get new cartridges (remember that a color printer needs 3-4 cartridges, which is why they are pricey to run as a B&W because they won't print a B&W page if they are out of cyan). Again, YMMV and it depends on funds as well as space to put two printers. :tongue_smilie:

My kids love MTCLA. For Grammar Island, we'd do it every day, just a page, maybe two. Only takes 5 minutes. They especially like the little stories. Gentle, easy, fun -- stop when they still want more. :lol: Just let you and your dd immerse yourself in the beauty of it, soak it in. Have you read The Little Prince? The taming of the fox always comes to mind when I think of MCTLA and kids. :D

There is very little "consumable" with MCT and the resale value is high. :D

As he learns to read his speech will likely improve. With the speech, I would probably be looking for a more unified phonics program that really focussed on the letter sound aspects (voiced versus unvoiced, tongue position, whether a sound is made with the teeth, tongue, or throat). I know K12s Phonics program does this and I'm sure many others do as well. Pick one that is through and you like. You can augment it with ETC or the other programs you mentioned for fun, and transition to them once you are sure your ds can hear and make all of the phonemes (including blends like /gr/). It's normal for kids to not be able to make all of the sounds perfectly until 8yo, but he should be able to hear the differences. I was the same way -- inly intimidated by teaching reading, but it's not that tough. I'd just make sure to use something very intentional with the sounds in your ds' case. Being able to see the letters and read really helped my kids' speech clear up. :D

That is probably true. But the measure of a program isn't how much content they expose your child to or even how many skills they teach your child in a year. It is how well they educate your child in the long haul. DIfferent styles have very different ideas about how to do that. SL is more heavily "front loaded" than OM. OM is betting that if you develop a child's creativity and enthusiasm and make them love learning they will be more enthusiastic and prepared for the "hard stuff" later. Classical front-loaded programs can be very effective -- my eldest absorbed they 4th grade classical ed by mid-2nd grade and did well. She excelled. But she also tells me frequently that she wishes she'd been able to learn the way her sister is, who is probably a few months less accelerated in skills than her older sister, but enjoying herself a lot more. Now, that is just two kids, and every kid is different. My eldest would have succeeded with either approach. My middle child would have not have done as well with the front-loaded approach -- she's just not the same kind of kid. It's scary to choose a slower path. Is your child going to fall behind? Especially when you hear about some other kid studying 3 languages and 2 sciences, and tons of extracurriculars. But then I read my school district's guidelines breaking down how commas are supposed to be taught over 5 years, and OM's stance that they don't teach reading analog clocks until 3rd grade because "they are a manmade device and unnecessary to understand concept of time" starts making sense (I had already come to that conclusion on my own the hard way discovering teaching telling time on clocks takes years if taught early or 15min if you wait until a child is ready and knows things like, multiples of 5). Personally, I think that in the K-2 years, any program that teaches a child to read, understand the relationship of the basic operations of math in the world, and encourages a joyful and inquisitive spirit towards learning is probably effective and "meaty" enough. Maybe throw in some handwriting. A lot of programs don't start grammar/spelling/writing until 3rd grade understanding the need to get those basic skills down. Science and history are often just repeated content (3-4 times). Anyway, there isn't one right choice, or a best curricula out there. We each have to make the best choice we can for our own family. I wish you all the best in your decision. Whatever you decide, remember you are at the beginning of a long journey, the destination is far ahead, and your course is not unalterable (i.e. days of 2nd guessing are never over, :lol:). Enjoy the ride! :D

I'll just echo what others have said: rigor is not the same as joyless nor effective. DIfferent folks choose different styles to try to make education effective and joyful for their kids. And yes, I've definitely seen the value in waiting 6mo on some concept rather than beat on it. The real question is whether it is working for you NOW, and if your 1st grader is hating, I'd say it's not. first graders IMO shouldn't hate learning any subject. As others have mentioned, it may not be that your education is too "rigorous" but that your methods/curric/style is just not working right now for your dd. A few tweaks and you should be able to find something that is effective, joyful, and works for you and your dd. Good luck!

MCTLA doesn't do copy work/dictation, so you can add that. What I will say it is a delight-driven and very deep program. It is better to spend 5min or read one page a day than to try to push through a section. There may not be any "exercises" that day. It doesn't mean they aren't learning anything. ;) The little stories in Grammar Island are clever and engaging and by the time you get to Sentence Island you can appreciate how truly deep the content is. Since your dd is so young, keep in mind that it's OK to slow down and take it slow or take a break. The whole point of MCTLA is to instill a love of the english language. IMO, better to learn grammar well once rather than the traditional method of covering basic grammar for six years, "underlining the verb and circling the adjectives" for 25 sentences on a page. My oldest dd learned grammar the traditional way and says she's jealous her sister gets to learn it the MCTLA way. ;)

Great! Thanks for the concrete suggestions -- I may try them on myself. A bit sad that my 3rd grader can read faster than me now. :lol: I think that is because I had to learn to read more slowly (slower than I could talk) when I was in college, especially grad school, because of the dense technical material. You just can read scientific journal papers fast (I read those out loud since hearing ti engages my brain more). But I *do* miss being able to rip through fiction like I used to. :D Good points though that we do need to teach our kids when they need to SLOW down and when to read fast. I wouldn't want to make my kids unlearn their speed-reading and have to relearn it, though. It DOES come in quite handy and she does have terrific comprehension. So much of which to be aware. ;)

I guess the question is how is it working for you? :D We school year round and I don't bother doing the "year-start review" stuff either. In the natural course of our year, as topics and subjects ebb and flow we do review and "checks" to make sure content is sticking. I find that sufficient for us. Don't forget the purpose of those start-of-year review chapters is usually to make sure a classroom of students are all up to par before starting the year. Not really a concern for homeschoolers in the first place, although they can be a nice sanity check to make sure we've covered everything.

Another wrinkle is that fast readers do NOT "hear the words in their heads." They decode the phonetic information visually. THat's how speed readers exceed 500 wpm when few of us can speak over about 150-180 wpm. If we make our kids to read aloud to US "too much, too long", are we preventing them from making this adaptation and slowing down their reading rate growth, essentially limiting their rating to the rate they can speak? I became aware of this because my eldest dd scored exactly the same reading rate on Dibels (176 wpm) 6mo apart, so I had her read a selection silently (450 wpm) and realized she was being limited by her speech rate. She was only 6yo. So, for me, once they read with a high degree of fluency, I don't have them read out loud as a significant part of their reading time. I want to let them internalize their reading. My middle dd loves to read to grandma, and reading has cleared up her speech, so she does that a lot. :D Otherwise, I have them read out load to their younger brother, or part of the lesson, or to see if they are stumbling on tough words. As to listening to read alouds, I read stories for lessons and history to them. They do enjoy it. I had gotten away from reading aloud as much from my independent readers, but when I started using OM, stories are such a big part of the curriculum. We all really enjoy it. They also love my dramatic readings from Grammar Island. I realize I need to enjoy their enthusiasm for cuddling during story time while I can! :)

Well, we school year-round and pretty much every day (quick cure for Monday morning angst, LOL) but we just started a new "term" this weekend. Summer will be a transitional term and its full of things we had tabled last year while my middle dd really nailed down her reading in 1st grade this year and then we had tons of distractions this spring, but I gotta say it was nice that today when I would have LIKED to just take the day off the kids where the ones clamoring to do their lessons. The big favorites at the moment: Grammar Island Sing Song Latin Oak Meadow 1 Fairy Tales (my 3yo considers this HIS book) Beast Academy 3A (dd7) Anything crafts

Whatever you do, I'd toss in reading (and discussing): 1) "Gifts Differing" http://www.amazon.com/Gifts-Differing-Understanding-Personality-Type/dp/089106074X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1341248269&sr=1-1&keywords=Gifts+Differing (either get her tested with the MBTI or use the Keirsey Personality Type Sorter in the front of "Please Understand Me II" which should give you the same thing (you can actually see the whole Keirsey test in the Amazon preview of the book: http://www.amazon.com/Please-Understand-Temperament-Character-Intelligence/dp/1885705026/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b ) and 2) "Brain Rules" by Medina http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Rules-Principles-Surviving-Thriving/dp/0979777747/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341248037&sr=8-1&keywords=brain+rules Brain Rules has cute videos on the web you can watch for most of the "rules". I love Psych and both books are required reading before "graduating" around here. ;)

Errr, actually to me it sounds pretty much the same. The only difference is in how the state is dispensing the funds and when. Seems like a tax credit is a lot less of a hassle than what most people go thru who can get funds thru other state agencies/channels. Of course, then it depends if it is dollar-for-dollar, above or below the line, etc... :D

I am in no position to sound like an OM purist -- my plans for this summer involve using OM 1 concurrently with all three kids (9, 7, 3), which requires significant tweaking. <remove details lest hijack thread> FWIW I was surprised at how nice the gentle review of phonics was for my ads, even tho they were reading (and needed a different program for their main one).

Well, let me come to you at this from a different perspective. I started with a classical, rigorous academics approach and NOW that I have 4 years of that under my belt am I embracing what OM has to offer. We've been using OM for about 6mo, and for my kids OM has brought a real joyfulness and engagement with learning. Yes, K-2 are at a much slower pace, but by 3rd/4th it's just as rigorous as a "standard curriculum". So, you get to the same point. Academically the main point of K-2 should learning to read and basic math. I will say that most of the stuff they delay (like punctuation) is learned much more quickly later on. My kids are highly accelerated, but when I started doing OM2 with my 7yo I found my 9yo loved doing it with her, even though she'd completed a 4th grade LA program 18 mo ago and enjoys solving algebraic equations "for fun". I just added depth and let them work together. She can tell you about codons and mRNA, but that does mean she doesn't like just looking at a flower. ;) You could probably use the OM K curric with both kids, maybe add some extra phonics if you felt the need or extra math practice and have a pretty solid year. But, honestly if you feel the need to be using it grade(s) ahead and add on tons of other curricula, OM may not be a good fit for you and you might do better just trying to incorporate some of the ideas that appeal to you? BTW, I add math, MCT, latin, and unit studies on history/science topics that interest us, so I'm not opposed to tweaking. Ironically, my 2nd dd is only a couple months behind her sisters pace with far less encouragement from me and their 3yo brother has the Waldorf poster childhood and is already reading. It is truly humbling to realize how little my efforts seem to matter. :lol: [ETA: Sounds like maybe you don't really *trust* the OM approach, which I understand and to be honest I don't know that I would have if I'd heard of OM at the start. But fwiw, knowing what I know now, I do. Partly because I believe that if a child learns to think and loves to learn that any gaps of deficits in FACTS can be easily remedied (plus everything they need to know gets repeated so many times). At the same time, there's no one perfect curricula or method out there. :D]

:iagree: K is a LOT about developing the maturity and attention rather than intellect, especially at the start. IMO if you fill your time with play, music, and games you can later start adding in more content (subjects). If you start by expecting too much "seat time" you can set yourself up for months of work just undoing the damage to ds's attitude. Above all, dc should LOVE doing learning in K. That won't always be true -- let's face it, not all learning is fun and even a 1st grader knows they have to suck it up sometimes and Just Do It -- but the K'r won't and shouldn't be expected to. Sure, sometimes a little bribery (we can do X after you finish Y) works, but you shouldn't face many tears or resistance in K. If you do you probably need to back off. ;) Keep in mind, K may be 30 min a day total of lesson time to start to 60-90min by the end. You may only have a 5-10min attention span to work with at the start. Even adults only *really* have a 10min attention span (have to recommit ever 10min). Good luck and have fun!

concepts and math facts are separate, to a point -- eventually not having them down will make harder problems more painful. One suggestion is to make sure to discuss WHY we memorize math facts. Sometimes what seems obvious to us just seems like random busywork to them!

Mathematicians are people, too (2 vol) would be nice for read aloud. http://www.amazon.com/Mathematicians-Are-People-Too-Stories/dp/0866515097/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b http://www.amazon.com/Mathematicians-Are-People-Too-Stories/dp/0866518231/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b Ancient Science is another one with experiments: http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Science-Time-Traveling-World-Exploring-History-Making/dp/0471215953/ref=tmm_pap_title_0 Hakim is definitely more through, but I'm saving for closer to middle school aged. ;)

I think it just depends on style: we're a cuddle on the couch for MCT family, so the 2nd book would be superfluous (and I did it with two kids at once). :D If your kids like to spread out or be on the move, a student manual might be a nice-to-have item, but not necessary. Basically the TM is the student manual with extra little post-it like blurbs (unobtrusively) here and there with points of discussion. You can see samples on their website: http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/ My 8yo dd had completed K12s 4th grade LA program and she still found Island level delightful (was a bit jealous her younger sis got to learn grammar the MCT way from the start, LOL). And for the record, I'm a fan of Music of the Hemispheres.

I did the Uni all the way approach with a high applied math focussed PhD and I can tell you that suffering thru 150 student calculus mill classes taught by stressed out untenured assistant profs who knew their tenure didn't depend one whit on us and completely unhelpful ESL TAs didn't help me in engineering ONE bit. It was just an unnecessary gauntlet I ran because I was too ignorant to consider other options (like taking those courses thru CC). The only decent course out of the 3 course series was taught by a UK prof there on sabbatical and my grades were (3.6, 4.0, 3.8) so I more than survived (mean was set to 2.5 as I recalled). But it was a serious waste of energy dealing with the CLASS rather that learning the SUBJECT. That was just my experiences art my Uni, but don't ever confuse "hard" with "worthwhile". Sometimes harder is just wasting energy (reminds me of girls I knew who'd date the worst guys because they liked relationships to be hard, too :lol:). But I fully agree with the call to due diligence. :D

Well, a lot of the time the reason the CC calc classes are "easier" is because the classes are smaller (30 vas 150), the teacher really cares about the students learning and the quiz sections are held by the prof or english speakers (quiz sections at major Univ are taught by (often foreign) grad students -- in 2 of my 3 calc course the english was so unintelligible I stopped attending). And yes, sometimes the curve is set higher since it isn't a "weed out class" for the tech majors. ;) I always thought the folks who transferred in from the CC were smarter for doing their core intro math and sci series outside the Univ.

<bump> Any thoughts on form drawing teaching in Oak Meadow versus Christopherus or other curricula?