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:grouphug: :iagree:Absolutely do what the poster just described-break it into smaller pieces.If his answers to the comp questions come out jumbled somewhat, I think it would be good to even reread the sentence in the narrative to see if he cannot clean up his sentence on his own before you rephrase it correctly and have him repeat it.The ability to take that inarticulate idea in the mind and express it correctly in a sentence is a fundamental skill to establish before a child moves on in the writing process. It is well worth the extra time to establish it. One of the greatest benefits to homeschooling is the ability to accomodate your own child's speed of progression. I feel your pain and I hope our comments help.

I understand what you mean about the OPGTTR as I have been there and used it twice to teach two boys to read. I used it successfully this way: I read the simple rule and taught it without the book using a white board/magnetic and colorful magnetic letters. Many times I would not have them read the text but put words on the dry erase board that they could erase or cross out after reading. I found phonically controlled readers that were way more appealing than the Bob Books (Nora Gaydos) that coincieded with the group of rules he was learing (i.e. vowel pairs that say long a-ai, ay, ey, ei). The point is you don't need the book as much as you need to know the phonectic rules and the systematic order to teach them in. The OPGTTR lays them out so simply in the back of the book. It is so easy to just teach with the magnectic tiles ie says the long i in pie, tie, and lie. As long as you are systematic and provide lots of review of the individual rules with the controlled reader as you progress. The Minds of Boys by Michael Gurian goes into all the new brain research out on boys. They need movement and strong visuals to learn-There was no way we would have gotten through that book had I not adapted it to my boys. Later, to ensure that there would be no 4th grade slump, I made sure that my oldest could read everything out of that book and knew those rules. He tested well above his peers in his 3rd grade IOWA in reading and comprehension.

Regarding your youngest. I suspect that she could do level 2 and the way you could assess this is by way of what the author does at the the end of level 1-the evaluation is simple. Read a 5-7 paragraph excerpt from Literature (WWE1 uses an excerpt from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum). Ask her 5-7 questions expecting her to answer you orally in a complete sentence. You may remind her to answer you in a complete sentence, but you should not have to form the complete sentence for her. If she misses two or three of the questions she should practice her comprehension skills on more passges before moving on to level 2. If she passes this, ask her "What is one thing you remember from this passage?" You copy her oral sentence down for her as she watches and then she copies it from your model, if she misspells more than one word and does not reproduce the punctuation and capitalization properly, spend a few more weeks on copywork before moving on to level 2. Regarding your rising 3rd, you just need to see if she is able to do the evaluation at the end of WWE2 to determine if she is ready to move to WWE3. If you have not done any dictation with her, I would do level 2 before going to three. I have taught levels 1-3. My rising 5th just finished level 3 and I must say that when I fill his head with facts, that boy can get his thoughts on paper! Good luck

I just completed the demo week in one sitting for the elementary Spanish 1. 1. Perfect for a homeschooling mom who doesn't want to teach it and be comfortable knowing that all the hand holding is done by the computer program itself. This is great for my older elementary kid to do all on his own while I work with younger sib. 2.Tracking his progress is sooo easy with their simple tools. 3. $100 a semester-4 days of lessons and 5th day is review and testing. It is probable that many kids will be able to do more than one lesson a day. 4. Awesome, engaging, colorful, and varied interactive learning methods. 5. Offers many languages, elementary, middle, H.S. AP. Three different options, without/with transcript/addition teacher. 6. All courses offer a free week demo: Go to powerspeak.com 7. I learned and suspect will retain alot just from that one week (loved learning malo means bad i.e. malfunction, malicious, etc.)

This comes after WWE level 4 (around 5th grade and beginning of logic stage). If you did not use WWE, but your child can read a passage of literature independently, sum it up in 3-8 sentences depending on length and complexity of the passage chosen, and can take dictation exercises of around 25-30 words after 3-4 repetitions, then your child is ready to move on to WWS. If your child struggles with any of these skills, spend a few more weeks on either dictation or narration in order to provide extra practice. I took these comments directly from Week 36 of WWE level 4.

It is not necessary to even do level A prior to B. All of the content of A is incorporated in Level B which can be taught begining in 1st grade (and it can be the child's first formal math text). Level B has 106 lessons so you can go nice and slow as there are typically 180 days in a school year. Do not be concerned at all about a 6 year old not visualizing the abacus-he's in the concrete stage, it will come the more he uses it. One gem of info I wish I knew before doing RS was that once you complete RS E, and the RS Intermediate course, the student has had all they math required through Middle School. I now have a rising 5th grader who is beginning Intermediate and will finish it sometime in 6th grade! Since my beef with level D and E was not enough practice, I would have slowed down during this time and brought in supplementals to attain mastery before moving from one thing to the next. I loved RS and my youngest boy, 7 beginning 2nd grade next year with C understands place value so well he can mentally add 4 digit numbers with 2 digit numbers and knows all kinds of stategies to manipulate numbers to solve 2 digit computation problems mentally.

I have a rising 5th grader who finished Prima Latina last year (the second half on his own as he is a strong reader). I do not think he enjoyed the repetitive format of Prima Latina and think he would love Lively Latin due to all the history and art but I fear the same content is covered as far as introductory latin? Anyone familiar with both who can tell me?

I have taught RS levels A-E. I suspect (haven't taught any other math program) RS levels A-C are superior to any other program. My complaint with D and E is not enough practice and had I figured that out earlier I would have supplemented but I still would have taught D and E. Pursuant to brain research, (The Minds of Boys by Michael Gurian) boys learn best when they have strong visuals and get to manipulating objects and move. Both my boys are phenomenal in math and I believe it is because from the very begining they were taught to manipulate numbers (by learning specific stategies with the RS manipulatives-especially Dr. Cotter's trademark abacus-a must have). If you use this with your 4 year old, he is going to learn (instead of memorizing math facts) how 5 is special and to see numbers 6-10 as 5 and 1 for 6, 5 and 2 for 7, etc. He will learn how to add 4+3 by making that 4 a 5 and the 3 a 2. RS is all about teaching children to understand, not memorize. Ask a RS student why 8+7 is 15 and they will know two strategies (take 2 from the 7 and give it to the 8 and its 10+5 or 8 is 5 and 3, 7 is 5+2, the two 5's make a 10 and 2+3=5, 10+5=15. Both B and C are phenomenal at teaching strategies. (A was good too but didn't finish it. My first did ABeka kindergarten math and I started A with my second but he was going to my church for a young 5's class and my heart wasn't in it to teach it and preferred to wait and do B this year. It is not necessary to do A before B but with your son being 4-Definately start with A. B is for 1st. Teaching math the RS way takes commitment from the parent because most of us did not learn math this way. We were taught rote and to stack and do columns-of course losing understanding of place value in the process. Many parents drop out of the program in frustration because it is mentally demanding of the child and parent. If you do decide to use it, my advise-have fun and go at your child's pace-don't try to rush it to finish the year's curriculum (In fact after level E 4th grade, there is Intermediate Math from RS that takes about 2 years and Dr. Cotter says at that point they have gotten all the math they need through middle school. Now, my son has finished E in 4th grade. I have 3-4 years to do Intermediate. Obviously, I will be doing other programs until he is ready for pre-Algebra. Had I known, I would have woven in some supplemental materials to reinforce what he was doing in D and E. My second son will benefit from what I've learned doing RS with big brother. By the end of 1st grade, my sons had such an awesome understanding of place value and could mentally calculate 2 digit numbers as well as add 2 digits numbers to 4 digits numbers in an ongoing math game used in RS called corners. The subtraction strategies cemented in level C are so important and I can't even begin to explain how RS was so amazing in teaching multiplication with the abacus. Yes I highly recommend it if you can commit to it.

There is tons of diagramming in FLL3 and 4. My son is a WIZARD at diagraming. We just finished level 4. He has learned to diagram all parts of speech, including prep. phrases acting as adjectives or adverbs, interjections, direct address and introductory elements. If you want a solid grammar program teaching how to diagram-this meets that need. We used WWE but now are switching to Rod and Staff in 5th.

I have used FLL3 and 4 and WWE student pages without copying for sib. I expect to just buy the student pages when it is the sib's time. Ink and my convenience is well worth the few bucks to buy the student pages.

Thanks Judo mom-I don't know why Rosetta Stone made Cathy Duffy's top 100 picks (maybe the other languages are good but who needs to speak Latin?)

Is this a good program to learn latin for a 5th grader?

I have the very first book that combines 1 and 2 together with no student pages. I believe that the new books that divide year 1 and 2 now have the student pages available for you to do the copywork and narrations. The lessons are exactly the same as I pulled up from Amazon the table of contents of the new 1 and 2 and compared them. If you have the original combo book it is not necessary to purchase the new one when you can just use guideline paper and write the copywork out for them. Save the money. WWE only has copywork two days a week so the extra copywork in FLL is no big deal. Personally I wanted copywork everyday and did lots extra because I really wanted to cement what good sentences look like, helping to develop that mental image by practice starting with caps and ending with punctuation, capitilizing proper nouns, etc and spelling!!!.

Please tell me a latin curriculum that my son can use independently. He finished Prima Latina last year.

A quick comment on the copywork. The copywork is intended to be supervised the entire time so there should not be a finished product with a mistake because when you supervise, if the child begins to spell the word wrong or forgets the capital letter or punctuation then you are directed by the teachers guide to "genty stop' and have the child correct it immedicately, not after the copywork is finished. The idea is that you are in the ideal position working one on one to reinforce the grammar and conventions during the time the child is writing it out AND the child, by writing the sentence correctly, gets to develop a mental image of what correctly written sentences look likes-a prerequisite skill before dictation or any writing for that matter. Regarding your situation- I am not qualified to comment on how best to work with a child with any learning disabilities (Not saying yours has one) If I realized after the fact that I was suppose to be supervising my child while doing copywork and then gave copywork another shot with my total supervision and guidance, then saw that my child could not copy it correctly, I would get professional help.

I am not a professional. I have a 10 year old son just finishing WWE 3. I diid WWE2 with him last year. He has no learning issues I am aware of. I am inclined to repeat what SWB says in the evaluation: spend a few more weeks on dictation. Is he better at one long sentence 12-15 words or two short sentences? If he did well on the narration part and you spend a few more weeks over the summer doing dictation, I think you should move on to WWE3. Also, I strongly believe in copywork as a way for children to get a mental image of what good sentences are suppose to look and to reinforce capitalization and punctuation. I know there is a "memory" issue you mentioned, but how well do you think he visualizes the sentence(s) you are dictating? If he is just bombing with dictation, I would have him do copywork to strengthen his visualization and make the writing capitalizations, punctuation more second nature. Another suggestion I have is after the first reading of the dicatation-talk about it. Ask him to picture the sentence, is it a statement, question, exclamation, or command sentence, what kind of puctuation does it get? Are there any proper nouns, etc. Always give the correct spellings for him if needed as it is not a spelling assignment and please feel free to disregard anything I suggest as you know your child and I don't. I was just brainstorming. It is helpful to watch SWB's you tube vidoes of her giving her son dicatation at the kitchen table. After the number of repititions suggested, if the child has difficulty reciting it back, suggest they start again from the beginning as it will sometimes trigger the word and/or you may give them a word to help trigger. I sometimes get really bored with doing this 4 days a week (after two yearsx36 weeks). Also, we use FLL and my son has memorized all the poems during those 4 years. Poem memorization is a fabulous way to train the brain to hold info-maybe you could do that too. I think this has helped him as well-plus we did lots of copywork in 2nd and 3rd because I was trying to get him to transition to cursive fast.

I found out through another friend who homeschools. Every year I fax my letter of intent to homeschool with my identifying info and they email me my user name and password within a day or so. I renew every school year. I've had access for, I think, 3 school years.

In my school district we homeschoolers get it for free just by sending in our lettr on intent to homeschool every year. I use it to supplement history and science mostly and research. We pulled down education full videos and just segments on a specific topic, images and articles. Our library no longer has all the magic school bus videos but you can get them there. Love it!

I taught both my boys, now ages 7 and 10 to read using this primer with Nora Gaydo's Now I'm reading phonetically controlled readers. I started from the beginning with both of them when they turned five (already knew the individual sounds due to church preschool) and worked pretty much straight through M-F with small breaks here and there. They both finished by their 7th birthday. If you finish early like I did and stop formal phonics instruction I recommend double checking that they have all phonics rules down right before 4th grade to prevent 4th grade slump.

WWE materials are mute when it comes to cursive. TWTM states cursive instruction begins in 2nd grade. My 10 year old son has just finished WW3 and is completely transitioned to cursive exclusively, so I can give you my perspective. The last actual copywork exercise is in lesson 27 in WWE2. From then on it is narration and dictation exclusively-no copywork. If a WWE 2 student has learned all his cursive letters before lesson 27, then for the remaining copywork exercise write the model sentence in cursive and have the children copy a correct cursive model or just let them do it manuscript as a manuscript maintenance sentence. In reference to the dictiation sentences that begin in week one of WWE2, they need to do it in manuscript. The point of these dictation sentences is to help the child picture the sentence mentally (remember they have been copying in manuscript correct sentences all during 1st grade to help them get a mental image) so they can get it down on paper (also to train their brain to hold their thoughts so that they can get it on paper). My son was completely transitioned to cursive by mid third grade because in addition to his ZB 2C and 3C handwriting books, I had him do copywork sentences in 2nd and 3rd from cursive models. Also, after he finished his 2C book and had learned to form all the cursive letters (we finished it early at xmas time) after completeing dictation in manuscript, he would look at it and rewrite it in cursive. This also motivated him to want to transition faster. He began to exclusively write in cursive by mid third grade-maybe alittle sooner. After practicing cursive enough, he got to the point on his own that he was able to do his dictation in cursive. Let your child guide you but don't force the dictation in cursive until your child is ready. If you give plenty of cursive copywork like I did( it just made sense to me to do that little extra to help him), then your child will have no trouble forming a mental picture of the sentence in cursive. Good luck!

If you have never read Susan Wise Bauer's 3 page article about the writing process, I suggest you take 5 minutes out of your life and read these 3 pages for free by googling the name of the article "Why Writing Programs Fail" It will bring you to a sample of her book Writing with Ease and you can scroll down and read it on page 3. It helped me with my 10 year old son by educating me on some elements in writing that need to be broken down and how to do it.

Thanks for these. I purchased the LOF fractions, and the percents/decimals last night on line. I think I will purchase the final RS program- their intermediate math which I believe is also called the Hands-on Geometry which I will have him do over two years. I'll research the other ones you all suggested. Thanks for your input.

Start with the fraction (one semester course), next book is the percents and decimals, both books can be done in one school year. If you go google Cathy Duffy reviews she is spotlighting life with Fred and has an excellent description of this program. I think there is a link to the web site for the author and that has great info and samples. I have a boy who finished the Right Start curriculum at end of 4th so we are going to do Life with Fred next year in addition to Hands on Geometry thru Right Start.

My 10 year old is about to finish level E in RS. I am thinking about getting in the Hands On Geometry and let him work it over a couple of years. Since he is only starting 5th grade in the fall and has a couple of years before pre-Algebra, what other programs can he do independently? I was thinking about Life with Fred Fractions and the Percents/Decimals book after that. I want a independent program that he can work on his own. I like the idea of the "bridges" in Life with Fred that will help me make sure he understands what has been taught before he moves on. Of course RS has taught all this but we breezed through it in 4 years and I heard that the Hands on Geometry doesn't have enough review and practice of the content taught in levels A-E.