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Mrs. A

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Posts posted by Mrs. A

  1. 11 minutes ago, Pen said:


    Other than traditional patriarchal rules what about the OE/RC conception of what priesthood is and does makes it impossible for a female?  

    The priest or bishop stands in the place of Christ. He is a living image of Christ as head of the Church to the people. Jesus is a man. There's no way around that. 

    • Like 1
  2. 9 hours ago, Frances said:

    . I don’t think any of that makes them more valuable as a person, the roles are just different. And different people,irrespective of gender, will prefer one role to the other. 


    Thank you for pointing out that doctors make more becaus of training, responsibility, etc. That's very true. My point though was merely about the value of a person, regardless of their profession. Your point about different people preferring different roles is valid, however this is where the doctor/caregiver analogy falls short when comparing to the priesthood, because, like @Bluegoat pointed out above, it's not so much about doing as about being, and preference, strong as it may be, doesn't change that.  

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  3. 4 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

    Like I keep repeating, someone looking at our parish on a Sunday would think that our children are loved as well. I'll guess that our parishes are virtually identical but you don't see what I see. 

    Just like in your church, women chant in our parish. They serve on the parish council. No one says, "shut up and get me a sandwich!" But that doesn't mean "equality." 

    The only way to justify a male only priesthood is to rely on the argument that men and women have different roles. Basically separate but equal. But separate can never be equal. 

    And from a practical perspective - headcoverings? Modesty? "Saints and women saints?" No communion if you're having your period (this one isn't enforced in our parish)? Churching a woman after 40 days of giving birth by praying that she be "cleansed?" Why is a woman's body unclean? But we don't think women are inferior! Okay. 

    "The Faith doesn't change" is WAY simplistic. The Faith doesn't change. The liturgy doesn't change. No. There are two ways to approach Church history; (1) the Faith doesn't change so any appearance of change isn't really a change, or (2) the Faith has obviously changed in some ways so let's not get so hung up on the Faith not changing. 1 is the official line. It's what you'll hear from the pulpits. 2 is scary. If one thing can change, can it all change? So everyone doubles down on #1. 

    The Bible is crystal clear about divorce but the Orthodox Church allows divorce and remarriage. You can go back and forth on that one all day long. If you want to believe that the Faith never changes, you'll insist that it's not really a change because it's not actually a divorce because the second and third marriage ceremonies are different. 

    That raises the question - why allow change for divorce and remarriage? Whose interests did that serve? But a male priesthood can't change. 

    What attracted me to Orthodoxy in the first place? I get that it's scary when someone leaves. Everyone who converts to my church is really smart and insightful and everyone who converts away from my church is deluded or ignorant. There must be something wrong with people who leave. Either a character flaw or they weren't educated enough. It makes it a lot easier to see the world that way. 


    Why can't separate ever be equal? Does that mean that because a man can't physically bear children that he is not equal to a woman? He's certainly not the same in that respect - there is a separation in that distinction.  

    I won't try to convince you one way or the other about the things you mentioned (change, divorce, headcoverings, etc., none of which really work as actual proof of women being inferior to men in the eyes of the church). Clearly we would just be talking past one another instead of coming to terms. 

    But I will say that I don't feel the least bit scared by people leaving Orthodoxy, though it does make me sad. I don't feel any need to categorize people who come and people who leave into the categories of smart/enlightened  and deluded/ignorant, nor do I think that there must be something "wrong" with anyone who leaves, or that there's anything particularly "right" about those who come and those who stay. Your journey is your own, and it's not my business to judge your choices. I just had some questions because I wanted to understand a little better, that's all. 


    Eta: I will say though that the whole no communion while on your period thing is something I've heard mentioned, privately, in passing, ONCE in 40 years. It sounds like a fundamentalist type thing to me. 

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  4. 14 minutes ago, Pen said:



    It sounds similar to argument that women are allowed to be nurses and to help care for sick family members or friends or people in the community and that that is sufficient equality even if women aren’t allowed to be a doctor as that’s a position to be reserved exclusively for men.



    Perhaps. But that really only means something if you consider caregiving to be inferior to doctoring - which I realize society does, since caregivers make a fraction of what doctors make. But does that actually mean that being a doctor somehow makes a person more valuable than being "just" a caregiver? 

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  5. I'm sorry that your experience of Orthodoxy has been what it has. What you have described is nothing like anything I've ever experienced in any parish I've ever been a part of, though we have always been part of the Antiochian archdiocese, never OCA. If anything children are doted on and loved and indulgently smiled at when they make noise. I have been especially struck by the incredible outpouring of love for children at our nearby Romanian parish. I also see women honored and respected and encouraged to teach and lead in many ways, even without being able to be ordained. I know of one woman who has been given a blessing to give sermons, and there are many women who chant and read and things like that. But I'm also a person who has never understood why equality has to equal sameness in every respect, including the right to do every single thing a man does, and it seems from the discussion here that that's what you want, so perhaps all of those things are still not enough. I'm sure you've heard it pointed out that how much we honor and venerate the Theotokos is an example of how women are not viewed as inferior to men. How do you view that? 

    I'm curious what attracted you to Orthodoxy in the first place. Because the faith itself doesn't change, even if the people in your parish don't live it out in a way that seems right. And that's something that's worth discussing with kids as well, because hypocrisy and simply just falling short of the ideal people strive for is something they will see over and over again. 

    Eta: I hope this does not come across as condescending or judgemental- I wish I could communicate my tone of voice. My questions are genuine and not meant to be snarky. 

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  6. I haven't logged on to these boards in ages. Sorry I'm late to the party!

    We actually still do use Ray's (though, yes, we are using it alongside BA). I have one dd though, who is going to use Ray's almost exclusively this coming year and just occasionally dip her toes in BA when it seems like it might be fun. I have all the BA books, and they have mostly been fun for us, but for this particular dd they are not a good fit. I wanted to make it work because pulling out a workbook and doing a few pages seemed like it was just so much easier than taking the time to go through the oral work in Ray's together. It seemed overwhelming somehow to have to do math with her and also with my 1st grader. But I've realized over the past year that Ray's actually takes way less time and lays such a solid foundation that I was silly to have moved away from it in the first place. I can't wait to get back into it more fully again.

    The older two dc never stopped using Intellectual, though we did stop using Practical since they were doing the BA books. They're both in the fractions chapter now and I continue to be so impressed by how thorough it is.

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  7. 44 minutes ago, Kfamily said:

    I was curious if these are the ones that you mean: The Great Ideas Program?

    I have 3 of the books that are on the left in the photo of this link. I've looked at them but have not made use of them yet. 🙂 

    HathiTrust has a full view file of one of these: The Development of Political Theory and Government, in case anyone else wants to see it. 

    Yes, those are the ones. 

  8. So my dad gave me a set of these and they look really interesting. They don't contain the original texts of the authors mentioned/discussed beyond some significant quotes, but the idea behind the set seems to be a thorough introduction to various great works on a variety of topics. Curious if anyone has these and has used them with their children in any way? I'm very intrigued and am hoping to find a way to incorporate these into our studies. 

  9. 2 hours ago, Sarah0000 said:

    The 3-4 Ray's looks perfect for computation. Do you guys require your students to narrate what they are doing to get the answer, especially in multi step problems? Or maybe that's best left for when he's older and in the meantime perhaps just add in terminology drill?

    One thing I like about Ray's is how new types of oral problems are introduced with a step by step breakdown of how to go about solving them. If my kids need that breakdown we go through it and then only return to it if they start to struggle a bit. Sometimes we don't even need to cover it at all, other times we go over several problems step by step before they're able to get comfortable with that type of problem. But mostly if they're giving me correct answers I don't bother asking them how they're getting there. I find that so much oral practice really gives me a good sense of where they understand and where they struggle so it's easy to tailor our work accordingly. 


  10. On 7/23/2018 at 11:24 PM, Slache said:

    We live in Oregon and the cost of living is too high so we have to move. We keep bouncing back and forth on locations so I thought I'd ask a bunch of strangers on the internet where we should go. Things that are important to us include:

    • Good homeschool laws
    • Forgiving immunization laws
    • Low cost of living
    • Income tax, sales tax, personal property tax, property tax, etc.
    • Conservative politics


    My husband wants to live close to Cincinnati, I want to live far from Cincinnati so we need a good middle. I like the west coast, he likes the midwest and we both like the south. Nothing brings me more joy than the beach.

    Thank you for deciding my entire life for me.


    Having just spent a gorgeous day at the beach on Lake Erie, I'm putting in a plug for the Cleveland area. Four hours or so from Cincinnati, easy to homeschool here, snow in the winters, but not too severe (unless you live east of Cleveland - then you get lake effect snow. The southwest suburbs get less). Then there's the Metroparks - an AMAZING park system that spans around 77 miles in the Greater Cleveland area, full of hiking trails, freshwater beaches, nature centers (that even offer homeschool programs on occasion). It's a great area. 

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  11. (((Hugs))) I can totally relate to that helpless feeling when you can't see how to make any changes. 

    When I look at your breakdown of their days, it seems like you are taking much longer for most subjects than maybe you need to. My 5th grader takes about 30-40 minutes for math, so that's what I'm comparing to - I can't imagine him being able to sustain his attention for an hour - even what he does now is pushing the limits a bit. 

    Have you considered combing spelling, grammar and cursive all into one by doing studied dictation and copywork?  That would take about 10-15 minutes tops every day. 

    A pp suggested GSWL - I totally second that idea. It takes a few minutes and you can combine everyone for it. 

    Can you combine for literature? It may not be an ideal solution for long term, if you have specific books you'd like each of them to read, but for now maybe you could choose one to focus on together, just to give yourself a chance to breathe while you figure out your longer term solutions. 

    You have so much on your plate. Give yourself permission to let go of some of the non-essentials for a time so you can have the space to think clearly and evaluate rightly. 

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  12. Just tell me he will grow up just fine if we don't let him pursue this 100% right now. :lol: Tell me we won't put him in therapy over it or have him miss out on a life playing at the London Philharmonic and composing his own symphonies if we back away slightly. Or insist that he absolutely should do jump in and do what he can because...I don't know. :laugh:



    Of course he will be fine. Don't let yourself stress about it. There's no magic window of time in which he must begin formal lessons or he'll somehow lose his innate talent. It will still be there down the road if you and he decide to pursue it then.

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