Trish
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Posts posted by Trish
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Well. I dont think this is true. SOME people simply do not trust the govt and they hate Obama and so that bias means that the CDC can not win.
You will always find *some* people to distrust anything.
The CDC could still be doing a better job.
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I think those four facilities are the ideal for bio-containment. But I think there are quite a few other facilities throughout the country that are quite capable of dealing with an Ebola patient. Locally we're being told that there are 18 beds available. Ten at a hospital that's part of a chain that has designated three of its fifteen hospitals as Ebola treatment facilities, and eight beds at a university hospital. Both facilities say they have ALL the necessary equipment for staff protection and for disposal of wastes, isolation rooms with separate entrances from the ER departments, negative pressure rooms for long term isolation, and have done extensive training for handling patients with Ebola or similar issues. I suspect there are many such facilities around the country.
There's a hospital where I am locally saying that too.
But, the staff is currently freaking out over that fact, and also the fact that NO ONE has been trained, and so far no training has been scheduled. Much as we would want them to welcome ebola patients, that has not been the reaction of people actually working there.
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They've explained "Clipboard Guy". He is the supervisor and doesn't wear a suit because it limits visiblity and mobility. His job is to make sure they are careful and don't do anything wrong. They said it actually helps protect everyone involved. I'm not really worried at all about him.
So I guess that means the OUTSIDE of the patient's suit has been thoroughly decontaminated? Since he seemed to board the plane with his clipboard.
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Have you seen the picture of "Clipboard Guy" this morning? Four people in hazmat spacesuits are escorting the Ebola Nurse onto the plane to Atlanta. Clipboard Guy is in the same group with NO protection. Well, let me take that back. He had his anti-ebola clipboard standing between him and the virus. He also took the plane with them, also sans suit!
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There's a very interesting news conference happening on
Near the beginning of when I started watching the dark haired woman said while two patients were in Emory, I'm assuming Dr. Brantly and Mrs. Writebol, they did environmental assessments. Checking doorknobs they'd touched, table tops and such and they were unable to find any Ebola transfer environmentally, and this was when folks were severely ill. Only directly on the patients were they able to find Ebola. That's reassuring to me. I'm glad they were able to do some experiments while those two were in there
ETA - About 14 minutes after I started watching she address the worries of it going airborne and states that this outbreak is 97% similar to the original 1970's outbreak. She also talks about the VERY sick man who traveled by plane from Liberia to Nigeria and how terribly ill he was on the plane and how no one on that plane contracted Ebola.
That's great news!
Thanks for sharing.
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The CDC has had months to come up with a response plan to this scenario, and so far I'm not impressed.
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Again this is not accurate and the conclusions drawn are not logical.
The CDC guidelines have nothing to do with tape.
The CDC poster does in fact show an exposed neck. I'm sure using the medical tape was an improvisation.
I don't know what's logical, but we DO know the health care workers in Dallas did not have adequate protection. If they aren't addressing foot protection, I think that's a problem. It would be pretty easy to tramp through some fluids.
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Did you miss his point- More is not better. Better is better.
This has nothing to do with hair being exposed.
I think BOTH infected nurses would agree with me that MORE was better in their instance.
Health care workers were covering their necks with medical TAPE, for Florence Nightingale's sake!
Point is, the CDC does not appear to know what level of protection is adequate for health care workers. And there is a good chance they don't know how contagious this is or what all the routes of transmission are, notwithstanding their claims.
They seem to be on the "learning curve" right along with the rest of us.
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I do not think the CDC is falling down on the job. I think there is a big learning curve going on here since prior to this latest outbreak there were only 1400 or so cases for the past 40 years. I suspect that even though ebola is transmitted the same way as HIV and Hepatitis, that ebola is much, much more contagious when a patient is very ill with the disease compared to HIV and Hepatitis. The precautions listed above have been very successful in preventing healthcare workers from getting HIV and Hepatitis from work. In fact, no healthcare workers has gotten HIV from work since 1999 from what I can tell. I also had a patient with Hepatitis B cough bloody sputum onto my face and never got Hepatitis. I think if it was ebola, then I would have gotten it. I could be wrong, but ebola seems to be a different animal so to speak due to its astronomical viral load in the end stages of the illness. Therefore, the CDC needs to re-work precautions needed for healthcare workers. I am somewhat relieved that ebola seems difficult to catch in everyday life since many of the contacts of Duncan are almost in the clear. I am praying no more healthcare workers get it.
Based on what's happening in Africa, with doctors who DID have better protective gear contracting the disease, I don't see how the CDC protocols (gown to the knees, no foot or head covering except for the face) can be adequate AT ALL. I saw how they transported Brantley, and based on that, could not believe what they were allowing the nurses to do in Dallas. Yes I know that's the hospital's call, but surely they were in contact with the CDC. The CDC did not apparently tell them the spacesuit was essential, and they don't appear to think it is even now.
On Megyn Kelly's show, Dr. Frieden said, "Our information is clear and correct."
You know, the CDC is made up of human beings. Maybe they as an agency, or at least the people at the top, are suffering from "normalcy bias."
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It would be so helpful if you could link to that assertion.
The document in the PDF is a standard illustration of how to use PPE. It is not specific to ebola and at the very top it suggests that the protocol may vary depending on what type of PPE is being used. It describes the main points of how to don and doff PPE.
It has the word ebola right in the CDC's web address to the document.
For some reason I can't paste into this site so I'll type in the words from the transcript on Megyn Kelly's show (from last night):
Kelly: You would go into a highly infected Ebola patient's room without covering your head, with only wearing one pair of gloves, and with you feet exposed? You would do that?
Frieden: Absolutely. More is not always better. Better is better. Sometimes you put on more layers, it's harder to put on, harder to take off, you increase your risk of exposure. That's what the science tells us.
The interview is on Youtube, and the transcript is on the Fox News site. The whole interview was interesting (and not confidence inspiring vis a vis the CDC), she asked him a lot of pointed questions.
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I'm disappointed that so many are self righteous about a low-grade fever. Many, many people don't even notice that they have a fever at that temperature, and if it's a warm day it's quite easy to get to that temperature without actually having a fever. That's why they don't test for ebola unless the temperature is 100.4 or higher. That is a higher temp than she had on the plane.
How do we know it was 99.5 if she didn't take her temperature?
I would think if you are being monitored for EBOLA, then ANY rise in temperature would be cause to be on notice. NOT taking flights across the country. (which I don't think should have been done whether she felt well or not)
Comparing this situation to a "warm day" makes it sound like we're discussing whether or not kids should go to school. This is a Life and Death Disease. Maybe a little more righteous indignation will get potential exposees to at least stay in their home city rather than travel the country!
"You are now free to infect around the country..."
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I think this is grossly inaccurate.
I am baffled by the reaction of those who feel the CDC has fallen down on the job. As far as I can tell no one in Dallas followed the CDC recommendations. Local authorities are in charge of local issues of illness- not the CDC.
I heard the head of the CDC, Dr. Frieden, say that he'd have no problem taking care of a patient without shoe covering. In fact I looked at the CDC ebola PDF and is said you needed a mask, face shield (hair exposed on the PDF), no shoe covering, gown to the knees. I can't link but it was quite startling to see what the protocols for hospitals are.
They ARE falling down on the job. I have yet to see them get back up!
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So, infected people will be getting visas, forging documents, bribing officials, and stowing away aboard planes, lying to border officials ... .why? Because we have so much better care here? Really??
We have such an inflated idea of how awesome we are compared to other places. Um, maybe a reality check is in order.
Well, they will have to fight through all the Straw Men on the way to the airport, of course. It seems pretty likely that Duncan at least suspected he was exposed/infected. There's no evidence that he: forged a document, bribed an official, or stowed away on a plane.
Lying to officials? Probably, yes.
If you are getting little to no care in West Africa, why WOULDN'T you take a chance on coming to a country where you're assured full care? (Well one reason NOT to would be fear of infecting loved ones over here, but that might not be enough to stop people.)
A 3-week quarantine on people coming out of the country might be a good idea also. (aid workers, etc.)
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I am saying that I think there are better ways of doing it. I don't think the biggest problem is people coming into the country with Ebola, I think the biggest problem is that the U.S. does not have a plan for how to deal with an outbreak, in addition to the cost of accessing healthcare.
The reason we're talking about dealing with a potential outbreak is that a person "came into the country with Ebola."
Anyone who has a visa and the money for an airplane ticket would be better off hopping on a plane to the U.S. rather than trying to fight an ebola infection in West Africa.
THAT is significant motivation, knowing they will get full treatment here.
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If she didn't have adequate training (very possible and an issue that needs to be addressed) that doesn't change the reality that the disease was most likely transmitted when the protocols were not followed properly. Acknowledging how she most likely contacted the disease is not turning her into a villain.
Maybe she didn't take the "medical tape" off her neck properly!
Based on what little I know of ebola, I would NOT have felt comfortable caring for a patient with the "protection" they had on taking care of Mr. Duncan! So why didn't the CDC/hospital/nurses know better?
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If we get a significant uptick In numbers of ebola patients, I think rather than trying to care for them locally, they need to centralize this someplace where they can have highly trained people and the RIGHT EQUIPMENT AND GEAR in place.
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For those discussing travel restrictions for health care workers, that might be impossible to restrict. Apparently more than 60 HCW interacted with the first patient. Those people have had trips planned for months with nonrefundable tickets and it would be difficult to restrict their freedom with that number of people, especially when they were initially told this disease is not very contagious and that their risks were "very low."
If hospitals follow the recommendations discussed yesterday, such as having a very small number of workers help ebola patients and only ebola patients, then it might be reasonable to restrict the travel of those people.
Compared to the costs of decontaminating everything an ebola carrier comes in contact with, I would think the cost of refunding tickets for those who had trips planned would be minimal.
I think being an Ebola Contactee would take a MUCH higher priority than concerns about it being "impossible to restrict." None of these 70-something people should have been allowed to board planes. In fact, why aren't they under similar orders as Duncan's family? (depending on level of contact)
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Well, I was enjoying this thread but I'm going to have to stop reading now because the hysteria is getting out of control.
You might also want to turn off the TV and stop the newspaper.
Just sayin.
Remember, the equipment for the Dallas healthcare workers is "on order!"
Supposedly that Dallas hospital has THREE appropriate isolation/containment rooms appropriate for ebola patients. Three.
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I'm in the Dallas area and I'm part of the "not nervous" crowd. I am saddened by the illness of these two young nurses. I am concerned for the health of the others that cared for Mr. Duncan. I am hoping that we will soon hear that the Mr. Duncan's family is healthy and out of quarantine. But I am not nervous that this will spread and infect many others.
Would you use that hospital? Not asking if it is close to you, asking would you GO TO that hospital if you had a medical reason to do so?
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Also the fact that these nurses were taking care of OTHER PATIENTS while also caring for Mr. Duncan.
I think the "not nervous" crowd on this board is not nervous because they are "not in the Dallas area."
Too bad the CDC didn't consider "over-reacting" to the news of ebola in this country.
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Now they are reporting that the 2nd nurse had traveled from Cleveland to Dallas via air the night before her diagnosis.
How closely are exposed health care workers being "monitored?"
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I saw Clay Jenkins' press conference, I don't think he looked well. Hopefully it's just due to stress! Didn't he waltz into that apartment with no protective gear, and PRIOR to its decontamination?
I think the CDC has wrongly suggested there is no danger when proper protocols are followed. Those protocols should include a respirator. If the Dallas hospital that had just received ebola training was not ready to handle one case, how ready are the rest of the hospitals in the U.S.? And why are we still allowing flights from West Africa? Checking people's temperatures is not going to do much to contain this problem.
From the Center of Disease Research and Policy: We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.
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The CDC has been just full of surprises.
Wonder what's going on with the family, haven't heard too much about the Duncan clan lately. I hope nobody forgets they need our prayers!
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Hm, I have now also read something to that effect. And no matter how susceptible someone is to a disease - I don't see how they could catch it in full protective gear?
Maybe they were susceptible to believing what the CDC claims are "sufficient precautions."
Second Ebola Case in Dallas
in The Chat Board
Posted
CDC is changing the guidelines for what is recommended for healthcare workers dealing with ebola patients. The problem as I see it is that these continue to be recommendations only, and if a local hospital is unwilling or unable to enforce these, it puts healthcare workers at risk. I would imagine healthcare workers would be required to work under whatever conditions their employer set forth for them, at risk of penalty.
That's why it would be nice if there were a way to make the CDC recommendations mandatory in order to protect the workers at the front lines of this. Otherwise we risk endangering or losing those people.