wow! Just wow! Where to start? First, I think perhaps the OP has some valid questions. Her problem though is in 1) presentation, 2)assumption, 3)lack of research, and 4)lack of experience. In the words of the great Lady Catherine De Bourgh, "You give your opinion very decidedly for so young a person." Secondly, I think some of the responses were lacking in 1 and 2 above. Just because you feel attacked or irritated doesn't mean the favor ought to be returned. And I knew plenty 2nd year college students who were married. What the OP described in her first post is an ideal situation. "I don't know, in my mind, HS'ers just spend more time with their kids and engaging them by nature, so kids learn the "Bare bones basics" such as Shapes, colors, opposites, L-R reading, sequencing, same and different, expand their vocabulary and do fun activities that are good for their emotional, intellectual, and moral development..." Yes 1) assumption- (in your mind!). 2)Lack of experience. Before I had my 4 kids I certainly thought I knew quite a bit about children, learning, and parenting. But, I realized I didn't know everything. Could my kids learn all the bare bones without me knowing I needed to teach it? Sure, but knowing they need to learn it made me more intentional. I am not by nature an organized, talkative, "teacher" mom. I do love to read and spend time outside and with my kids, though. "Why waste money or time actually doing "PreSchool" "PreKindergarten" and "Kindergarten?" did your kids ask for it? Are you the sort of person who unless you have "a program" nothing gets done? Were you just trying to get your feet wet with HomeSchooling? For those of us who have more than one child, if you did Kindergarten with the first child, did you feel it neccessary for the others?" Now, you have some legitimate questions contained within these poorly presented queries. 1)"Why waste"- hmm... that certainly is making a value judgment and setting others up to read that into your other questions. How about "What made you decide to do a Preschool/Kindergarten "program"? What were your goals? What does a Preschool/Kindergarten program/curriculum entail?" And to answer, yes my son asked for it, yes he was ready to do academic work, yes I needed a framework, and no, I was homeschooled, so I wasn't new to it. However!!! I will say being homeschooled and actually homeschooling are two very different things!! Trust me, I thought I knew all about homeschooling (both my dh and I were homeschooled) and I am realizing just what a big iceberg it is! 2) "For those of us who have more than one child..." Uhm... YOU don't have any children at present and although I would guess you are trying to connect yourself to others on this board that statement would in fact do the opposite. But to answer that- I don't really think it is necessary to use a curriculum with my younger children as I now understand what sort of things they should learn. However it does give me a framework and ideas which in my situation I find valuable enough to use it. It also helps to keep their minds and hands busy instead of scooping peanut butter out of the jar and smearing it all over my silverware and counters. "Am I the only one who is put off/confused as to the point of this? I have been lead to believe that in PS it is more of a cushion/safety net because kids come with all levels of abilities and skills, but is there really a need for PreSchool and Kindergarten in the HOMESCHOOL?" I would use the word confused, not the phrase "put off" unless you really intend to put off some people. Kids really do come in all levels of abilities and skills and it doesn't matter if they come from a public school family, a private school family, a homeschool family, or the same family. You are assuming that because they are homeschooled it somehow makes them "normal"- whatever normal is. "HOWEVER, I tried to be clear what sort of "concepts" and "materials" I was talking about. I'm NOT including Phonics or Reading, Counting or Math in that list or meaningful things that are actually academic. I said "bare bones basics" and mentioned "workbooks" for a reason. I don't see the point in buying a workbook/program to teach your kids about shapes, colors, opposites, "same as" etc..." "systematic, goal oriented, parent-child bonding, child respecting, gentle handed ideology/method and I'm leaning heavily towards trying it first chance I get. I also love that Doman teaches MEANINGFUL skills and information to children from very early on" "Many of those same "bare bones" type skills are still taught/reviewed in the beginning of first grade ANYWAY, so I'm just curious why a lot of Home schoolers--especially those who engaged their kids in so many of the ways I specified above--seem to obsess, really, obsess over PreK/Kindergarten CURRICULUM (printed materials/program purchased by a publisher) that is focused on "bare bones" type topics." Ok, well what you described as "meaningful" and actually "academic" are what MOST Kindergarten (and some Preschool/K4) programs teach. That is what I did with my ds. That is what MOST of the parents OBSESS over! The "bare bones" as you describe them are usually not the main point of the curriculum and can be learned quickly with many children. Now, there is nothing wrong with a parent who has difficulty finding real life ways to teach their kids "bare bones" material to get hands-on toys, an art program, puzzles, etc. and have a scheduled time that they do it to ensure that they do it and call it Preschool. It is still enriching, fun, child-parent bonding, and by nature but just not in the same way YOU would find it. But it works for them because they are different. Parents are just as varied in their skills and abilities as kids and you need to be careful about making a judgment on those people because they are different than your ideal of a parent. And I would re-iterate: MOST Parents OBSESSING over programs are obsessing over MEANINGFUL and ACADEMIC materials. I hope that helps you in answering some of your questions and understanding why some people were a bit rankled by your post. I would say if you have genuine questions, try to ask them without inserting your opinion or bias. It makes people less defensive. I would also say that the opinions and ideas I had as a college student, single person, married without kids person, a new parent, and yes even the parent I was last year is MUCH different than now. I also remember being a college sophomore- and so does my husband! That was the year I thought I knew everything. And then my junior year came and I took Analytical Chemistry and Cell Biology and realized just how little I knew. LOL. I don't mean it to be rude so please don't take offense.:001_smile: But, really when you are in our shoes you will be able to see things from a MUCH different view than you do now. So ask questions, research things, and realize that opinions change and that every parent/child is different. What you may like your future child may hate, so don't write it in stone just yet. The beauty of this board is the wealth of information and experience of those who have BTDT. Take advantage of that, but realize you have a long time to figure it all out.

Thank you for the picture of the HIG! That really helps me to see what I am looking for.

I am using 1a with my ds right now. We've been through SM Earlybird and did some MEP while I was deciding to go with MM or SM1. I ultimately decided on MM. He seems to be doing just fine with it- in some ways it seems so easy. But something just hasn't sat right with me. It kinda hit me yesterday when I read a poster who commented that she switched from SM to MM because of the ease of use, but was switching back. One of the reasons she mentioned was that she found it was just too easy to give her child the page and walk away and that she realized she missed going over things in the Textbook and interacting with the child. Then I realized that was what bugged me! Am I missing some important part of MM? :confused1: I went back and looked at my SM EB and tried to compared the two. I like MM because it has a lot of practice, but I find that I miss the instruction/hands-on stuff and the "why's"/thinking behind the instruction from SM. My ds hasn't had a problem with either SM or MM. He catches onto things quite quickly, and in some ways MM seems to move rather slow for him. I talked with my dh last night and he said if I wanted to use both, he was fine with that. Anyway, I thought I'd ask about how to incorporate SM and MM together or whether there is something I am missing in MM.

Thanks for the helps. Would it be too much to do both at the same time? Or maybe work on geography with both and SOTW with my oldest and let the younger decide if he wants to sit in? Ancient History is so much fun, it was my favorite in school. I could see my boys enjoying either option though.

This is something I am struggling with right now. I did SM Earlybird with my ds1 and really liked it. Then, I heard about MM and debated on whether or not to switch. I liked that everything was in one spot (no flipping between textbook/workbook/HIG). So we used MEP for a little while until I finally made a decision to do MM. With MEP and SM we did the lessons together, and he only did little parts by himself. I feel like with MM it's so easy for me to say, here's the page, do it. With SM and MEP there was much more interaction- sometimes it took longer, but we were thinking and doing things together. I feel like the instruction is pretty light, at least for 1A. Yes there is a lot of problems per page, but it's not overwhelming to us. My son doesn't seem bothered by it in the least and the writing space isn't too small for him. I try to just assign him a few things, but he insists on doing every problem. :001_huh: I like MM because the drill is built in and it does cover things well. But, I am finding I miss the interaction, hands-on, and mental thinking we did with MEP and SM. (MEP has a lot of mental puzzles that really stretched us.) Also, I think MM moves to abstract pretty quickly (at least compared to SM), not that it bothered my ds too much. He was able to keep up just fine, probably from doing some MEP before. Of course, the open and go with MM means I don't have to do much prep work. I suppose if I were homeschooling more kids I might appreciate this more.

I will have a young, but mature, 1st grader (6 this fall) and a 4 yr old for preschool. I would like to keep them together as much as I can, as I have 2 younger kids who also need my time. My oldest reads pretty well (3/4 through PP) and enjoys writing. So... I was debating whether to take this next year and do some geography via Galloping the Globe or something similar, or start in with SOTW and the AG, or try out TOG. I've read about as much as I can about TOG and SOTW. It sounds like it might be better for me to hold off on TOG until my kids are a bit older. Though I really, really like it. :tongue_smilie: So, with a 4 and 6 year old- would it be better to do a geography study for a year or just jump into history? I would like to keep my kids together as much as possible and if SOTW is going to be way over my 4yr old's head, I am wondering if geography would be more interesting to him, and we can start that 4 year cycle with my kids the year after. My younger son loves to be read books and loves to do things with his hands- the only time he sits still is for a book or to color.

If you own Phonics Pathways still, take a look at where your son might be in that. I have both the A Beka handbook for reading and PP. They go pretty well together until after the long vowel/two letter beginning blends. Then it's a little different. However, like some else mentioned, A Beka likes to use "special sounds" which PP introduces as rules and in groupings of the same sound. For instance: oo, ew, ue, o (to, do, two), and ui (fruit) are all grouped together under the long u digraphs in PP learned at the same time, but each of these would be "special sounds" learned separately in A Beka (oo in tooth (In Chart 8), ew in flew and ew in few (chart 10)). The A Beka may get you reading a little faster by mixing up the order in which the special sounds are learned. But, the PP has a little more systematic approach along with teaching the rules. A Beka does also put rules in, but it also teaches some words as sight words that really can be sounded out using the rules in PP. If you don't want to spend much, go with PP if you've still got it. I use some of the A Beka readers and Letters and Sounds 1 (to help reinforce recognizing the sounds, but I mark like in PP, not like A Beka). I think at the level he is at it wouldn't be that big of a change. However, if you like A Beka, stick with it. I know so many kids who have been through it (me being one as well) and it does work great! Just know that other spelling programs will probably be different than how he learned with A Beka.

I have really enjoyed the layout of Singapore Math's Earlybird. One book, instructions right there, very clean and uncluttered layout. However it seems 1a and up are different in their layout. Workbook, textbook, HIG. It annoys me to me going back and forth between two things. I am using MEP1 right now, which I really like, but I do get annoyed with the back and forth and feel like I miss things. So, for those who've used both, is MM more like Singapore Earlybird in the layout or not? Is it fairly cluttered or not anymore so than MEP? For those who use Singapore does it slow you down using the textbook/workbook? Is it not that big of a deal? I like Singapore and don't really want to switch, but the cost and worktext of MM is appealing. I am also encouraged by others review or how similar it is to Singapore. I plan to continue to use MEP in conjunction with one of these. Anyway, thanks for any help.

I don't know if they are employees, but I do find it interesting that the only things those people reviewed were Dr. Warren's products. Well, except one reviewed a GF cookbook in addition to about 7 of Dr. Warren's products. So either some of them are planted, or those are the only things those people were interested in reviewing on Amazon. But, that doesn't mean it's a bad product. I have not used them so I can't tell you one way or the other.

I think if you stick with A Beka and just pare it down to what you and your child need it will be fine. I have used the old Sing Spell Read and Write, MFW K and 1st, Phonics Pathways, and ABeka. Oh and the BOB books which I did not like. Too much jumping ship. There were aspects of some I just didn't like or whatever. I am using Phonics Pathways in conjunction with A Beka's Handbook for Reading (has all the charts in the back and it's really all you need, no flashcards or big charts unless you want them). I like the straightforward way Handbook for Reading lays it out , very clean and uncluttered. I like Phonics Pathways because there is a lot of practice reading right in the book and perhaps a few more explanations. I also love their games. I used the BOB books and just did not like how they introduced phonetic words as sight words. I also felt they didn't flow well with PP and ABeka. So, I did buy some of A Beka's readers and find they flow well with both PP and Abeka (of course). I did get Letters and Sounds cause my kid likes workbooks. Not because I think it's absolutely necessary. But he likes doing the pages and it keeps him busy while my 3 younger kids (3 and under) keep me busy. So yeah, busy work, not absolutely necessary.

I am by no means an expert and I am mostly trying to bump this up for others. And, because I hate it when posts go unanswered. If he is interested in cursive, why not go ahead? I'm not really sure that it would make much difference with the letter formation, especially since a lot of cursive letters begin at the bottom. I guess I would just try to correct him as much as possible when you see it happening. You never know, he may take that correction to his private handwriting.

Thanks for the insight and encouragement. Hate to be the only odd one. :D I have just been telling him how I pronounce it, so it's good to know he won't be ruined for life, haha. I guess the regional accents would make a difference in pronunciation. Never really thought about that.

I am using Phonics Pathways and have come across different words with odd pronunciations, IMHO. develop-with the first e being a schwa, sanity with i being a schwa. Spoken and chosen with a schwa-"un" sound. (Ok, I have schwa issues. :tongue_smilie:) dog- with an "aw" sound, but it sounds the same as short o sound. I don't get what the difference is between the o sound in hot and the o sound in dog.

I was wondering if the student materials are reusable. I looked on their website and it doesn't seem like anything is consumable.

You can do a search in this board for cursive first threads. I just finished reading a bunch of them. Now my head is spinning! :lol: :blink:

So, I have everything set up to start school on Monday except my handwriting. My son is about to be 5 and we did print the last several months and he really does have decent handwriting for a 4 year old. Even the K teacher at a private school said he wrote beautifully (definitely more legible than my husband!). I taught him with MFW K (looks like Palmer print), although I showed him how to make some letters differently because I did not like the strokes. I write more continuously, similar to D'nealian (except for the lowercase k). Well, I'd like to do something different with him. I have been torn between continuing with print (Italic or D'Nealian) or switching to cursive. I have ABeka's K4 cursive that I was given, but I just don't like the style of their cursive. I like New American Cursive or Zaner-Bloser Simple Cursive (from Startwrite), mostly because the Q looks like Q and the simplicity of them. But, I am also intrigued by Cursive First (lowercase starts at the baseline!). To be honest I really don't care for cursive :glare:, but I see advantages to starting him with it at a young age. Should I let him write in print to begin with this year and work in cursive as handwriting? Then when he gets good enough at cursive, switch his school work to cursive? Maybe by the middle/end of this school year he will be good enough at cursive? :confused: He has some copywork and fill in the blank type things we will do this year (although not a ton), as well as math. I was planning on having him do a lot of narration for the first several months and then ease into letting him write a sentence or two. I feel like I am stressing out about something insignificant. Guess that's a first timer for ya. :tongue_smilie:

Yeah it bothers me, and let's not forget that ugly Q. The b and d reversals can be addressed in print by teaching them to start b at the top and d in the middle like an a. This is what I did with my ds when he wanted to learn to write this past year. I guess because that is how I write them! I will be teaching my child to read and probably write cursive, although I agree that GDI is much more attractive and legible. My husband, whose handwriting is atrocious, uses cursive as well as most of the grandparents and great-grandparents. And some of that is illegible too. So, for the sake of being able to read their writing, my kids will learn cursive.

In looking for a handwriting program and style I've come across a lot of cursive first recommendations. One of the big reasons I've read is that it helps children with learning to read. So, what if they already read well? Does it make a difference? I'm pretty sure I learned printing first although it may have been D'nealian. My mom said she used D'Nealian with my dyslexic older brother and he did well until my dad wanted to switch curriculum and that involved changing printing style as well (to more of ball and stick). So, I'm wondering does cursive make a difference if they are already reading well and they don't seem to have any other issues ( dyslexia, etc..)? I have some cursive handwriting books that were given to me and I'm thinking of using them so as not to have to buy anything else. But, I am also very interested in the Getty-Dubay style print. It seems very attractive and easy (to me at least).

I've looked at Zaner-Bloser. It is much better than the Palmer, IMO. But, I'm not completely sure about it. I found a chart that compared 5 different styles, and ZB was the only one that didn't show the strokes. I'd like to do something that is more continuous stroke, since it seems easier for me and him. Why did you switch from Getty-Dubay? I was thinking of possibly doing Getty-Dubay for manuscript and then switching to something else for cursive.

I am looking around at different handwriting programs for my K'er. I think we used something similar to Palmer, which I don't like. I don't like a lot of the manuscript programs and the way the letters are formed: too many strokes and not visually appealing to me. I have been showing my son how I print my letters along with the way the handwriting sheet was showing. I told my son he could choose whichever way was easiest for him and after trying out both ways he always picks mine. So, I looked up Getty-Dubay (Italic) and D'Nealian. Some teachers seem to think D'Nealian was too different from the written books and frustrated children. But, I haven't found much on Getty-Dubay. Any experience with these programs? Any other thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks for the link! I am starting 1A this year. It looks like most of the differences are in the higher levels, but I think I probably will go with the Standard Edition.

Which is better to use? What are the differences other than the metric system?

NO!! Absolutely not. The student book is so straightforward with instructions on the page.

So what foreign languages would be good to start at this age? I took French in high school and my dh took Spanish, but what we remember is pretty limited. My mil and sil have taken a lot of Spanish and do pretty well with it. However, they live 9 hours away. I think in America it really is becoming more important to learn Spanish. But, some of the big languages in other parts of the world are Arabic, Hindi, French, and Chinese. Here, on my street, there is Amharic (Ethiopia), Somalian, Vietnamese, Spanish, and Arabic (Sudan). There is a couple other families that I am guessing are from Eastern Europe. I help ladies from Japan, Korea, China, and Taiwan to learn English. I also have friends from India. There seems to be so many to choose from and I'd like to pick something that will help in the future. Of course I would need something I could learn along with my children.

My ds5 is doing a few things. We are using MFW 1st, a lot of read alouds I picked from Sonlight as well as others, A Beka Handbook for Reading, science recommendations from MFW and WTM, Drawing With Children, Intro to the Orchestra, and Singapore Earlybird B/1A. I plan on it all taking no more than 2 hours. I try to start by 9:30, do math, phonics, break, writing, reading, lunch. I plan that 4 days a week. Then one day is science, art, and music. I have 3 younger children, so sometimes we get a lot of "breaks". But we have quiet time when the littlest 2 sleep, so we also will read for an hour during that time and we also read in the evening. We do a lot of reading at our house. MFW 1st has handwriting mixed with his phonics and reading, and I feel that at his age and motor skill development, it's enough for the time being. I am interested in doing some geography as well, but we may wait until we get a routine down to incorporate that. I tried talking my dh into giving our ds piano lessons, but he doesn't think he can commit. (He works close to 80 every week and often a lot more.) And we have no piano. I am curious about AAS and wonder what others think about using it in K/1st.