I like to follow up OPGTR with CLE LA. It has worked for us twice. Hope this helps, Kathy

Thank you for your thoughts on the history! What levels did you get for the Student Explorers? Do they do any timeline work? How many lessons are there for the year? I think my dds would love the history game!

Thank you. Do you like it so far? And thanks, I did see where you can download the first 5 levels for free (can't get multi-quote to work).

Thanks for the info.! I just joined the FB group this past week! :) Kathy

Thank you for all the details, Mona! So are the quizzes mostly tied to the reading then? Are there any other tests? My dd is kind of burned out with all the CLE quizzes and tests. Does she give grading rubrics/suggestions? How much review is there? We are, of course, used to the spiraling CLE review, but it is too much for my dd and not all of that is necessary for her. However, some review is helpful. How often would you say they are writing in TGaTB? We are using Figuratively Speaking for literary terms this year and won't finish it. Should we continue it next year, or would that be covered adequately in TGaTB? What did you do OG-wise to help your spellers? Do you think you will use TGaTB LA alongside MFW high school, or switch to the MFW LA? Thanks! Kathy

Thanks, Mona! Level 7 is what we would be using next year! I'm so glad to hear it is working well for you! My dd is learning the state capitals in MFW 1850-Mod this year, so that will be a good review for her! I am really hoping this program will help us achieve all I've been trying to achieve eclectically, but in a much shorter time! I think it will offer more balance for us. How long does it take, typically? Can you please tell me more about the spelling? My dd is a weak speller, and I'm trying to determine if we should start the Megawords series next year. I don't know if it would be too much on top of G&B, though. How exactly is the spelling done, and is it every day? Does it still teach the rules/patterns at this level? Does it work on syllabication? Are there tests? For the literature/reading, am I understanding correctly that there is the "reader" they provide, and then there are 9 books done for the Course Reading Challenge, two of which are specified and the rest you choose based on genre? What kind of work is done with the reader? Is there any work with the books done in the Course Reading Challenge? Do they read both in the same day? What kind of literary analysis is there? Also, what kind of assessments are there? I didn't see any samples. Are there actual tests? Do you feel the need to supplement G&B in any way? I see you are doing MFW high school. Do you think you will continue with MFW for history? G&B history looks interesting and is a unique scope and sequence. I'd need to add Bible, though, except for the ancients coverage. This is our first year of MFW, and I'm weighing CTG vs. G&B history year 1 for next year. My dd thought the nature journal looked amazing and wants me to get it for her! If we stick with MFW, it will be a nice addition to it. Kathy ETA: I noticed you were using R&S 6 and WWS 1 before. How does this compare? We've been using CLE, and I was wondering about WWS 1 for next year since MFW recommends it.

I'll be interested in hearing any updates on how the history is going. Thank you!

What level of LA are you using? Thanks! Kathy

Has anyone used this curricula for LA and history? The LA in particular looks amazing! It includes diagramming, which I really appreciate, and art and geography, too! Thanks, Kathy

I think it's fine for the first few levels, but like Storygirl mentioned, after that it becomes lists of words by theme without the reinforcement of rules. A natural speller might could get by with this, but a child who needs more explicit teaching can't.

I feel like the grammar is very thorough, but we add other writing. We do not do the creative writing book. It was too vague for us. I really like BJU for writing in 3rd and 4th, and then CLE for grammar after that. It is hard to find a program that is strong in both. We have supplemented with Sonlight's Diamond Notes, Sonlight writing assignments, and Paragraph Writing Made Easy, which focused on key word outlines. I am researching what writing we will add for next year. For awhile this year, we were doing the entire CLE lesson, including the spelling/vocabulary, but we were already doing a separate spelling program and just using the CLE for extra vocabulary work. We cut out the spelling/vocabulary work because we were having time issues as well, and that really helped. We do the writing assignments in the CLE LUs if they seem worthwhile. There are a few that seem a bit too trivial/picky, and we skip those. If we use a complete writing program next year, we will likely skip all of the CLE writing assignments. Hope this helps, Kathy

I had my dd11 run through levels 1 and 2 last year for 5th grade and for part of 6th this year. She is now on level 3. But I have her alternating these books with the Math Express books, so if just doing the Process Skills, you could move faster. And we only do them a couple of times a week. I think starting from the beginning is giving her a good foundation, even though she was already somewhat familiar with bar models. It's allowing her to get used to drawing the models without having to pull in the harder math at the same time. Hope this helps, Kathy

You might look at the Sonlight readers. They come with discussion questions that you do orally. Vocabulary words are also defined, and any associated mapwork is provided as well. If you want literary elements discussed, that part happens in the Sonlight LA. Hope this helps, Kathy

We used Saxon 1 and Levels 1-3 of Singapore, and I much prefer BJU for elementary (have used levels 1-5). It definitely teaches conceptually, but with more practice and a more traditional scope and sequence than Singapore. I agree that BJU does require a lot of teaching time, and for that reason we have moved away from it for 6th grade. I think it is a strong program and it has a good bit of word problem work. The format of the program changes in 7th grade, so I am re-evaluating it for the upper levels. It only goes through pre-calculus, however, whereas Saxon offers calculus, if that is a factor for you. Hope this helps, Kathy

I really like BJU math for elementary ages. I tried a ton of math programs and BJU was finally what I was looking for - a conceptual program with enough review and practice. The CDs provide math facts sheets and I assign half a page a day. My younger child has done the enrichment pages from the CD and those have been a good challenge for her. I like that BJU uses manipulatives and has fun themes. They want the kids to enjoy learning math. We stepped away from BJU math for my older child this year because it was getting very tedious to teach at the 5th grade level last year. I really like how clear their TMs are, but the lessons can get kind of drawn out and you have to know which parts you can trim. That becomes more apparent after you've done the lessons in full for awhile. But even doing that trimming at the 5th grade level, the lessons were just too long. I felt my dd didn't need long, drawn-out explanations anymore. And she didn't need the manipulatives work anymore. But BJU gave her a great foundation to work from. Hope this helps, Kathy

She may need more of a mastery program. BJU is really good at teaching the concepts and is mastery. It goes at a slower pace than CLE. I like it for 1st-4th because it really makes sure they understand the concepts. We are using CLE for 6th and I like how it is pulling everything together that was learned in elementary and giving all that spiral review. I feel like since BJU gave my dd a good foundation in the concepts, she doesn't need as much presentation this year and CLE is a better fit. BJU uses manipulatives to really teach the concepts so they don't have to memorize a bunch of procedures/steps. I was very pleased with the 4th grade teaching of so many hard concepts. In my research I also noticed a lot of people commenting on CLE Math 4 and what a hard year it was. It's a lot of concepts thrown at a child at once without a lot of time to master them initially. It might be better to have a mastery approach for that year since it's a big year for long division, fractions, etc. Hope this helps, Kathy

Thanks, Nicole! That's an interesting concept, using TOG in a SL manner. Do you use the TOG discussion questions at all? Or the writing assignments? Do you read the background notes? The amount of information for each week is daunting to me. But I can see how it would be helpful as we move towards high school. Kathy

Thanks so much for your reply! I really appreciate your perspective! I love the way you summed up SL, TOG, and MFW. I always feel behind with SL, too. Always. They just don't allow breathing room for adding in holiday activities, field trips, etc. And I always want something more from them that eludes me as well. I want a few projects, some notebooking, some kind of "output", grading rubrics, etc. It's hard to really define what's missing; I just know it is. I really appreciate knowing that TOG's emphasis on historical analysis took the joy out of history for you guys. I have a feeling it would be the same way for us. We aren't the ones who would be fired up by that. The word I've had on my heart this year with MFW is "balance". The book basket really flushes it out and yet gives us the flexibility we need as far as how much depth we go into each day. We are finally having some more manageable days time-wise. I like adding the SL readers to it as well. I like that art and music are scheduled for us. We are actually doing science experiments this year because there is one set for both of my kids. I actually feel like we have more reading this year in 1850-Mod than we had in Core D. I was surprised by that. It has fewer read-alouds, but more history reading each day, and definitely more work related to the reading. I like the paper maps, too. I think if we went back to SL we would miss the simplicity of MFW as well. My kids love to read as well, so SL has been good for them in that regard. I think the actual history readings are a wash, though. It's more the SL read-alouds and readers that we have enjoyed the most. And I can add those to MFW. Thanks for your thoughts! I really appreciate your insights! Kathy

Thanks, Kristen! I'm concerned about the cost of buying TOG books as well. Even with just two, I like having them combined while I still can, so I go back and forth on whether or not TOG would be a good fit. I know what you mean about just wanting kids to enjoy literature sometimes and not killing their love of reading! Thanks again for all the info.! Kathy

Thanks, Kristen!! I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions! Do you use DITHOR with the HOD readers, or just the books? Also, you said you didn't know which TOG books you'd use from week to week. Were you using the redesigned? It looks like the left side is the main program and the right side is alternate books. Were you trying to do the left side? I'm just trying to understand what book choices you were having to make. I was thinking if I used the left side, I wouldn't have to be making book choices, that I could just go with what is planned. I was planning to add Figuratively Speaking as well. It looks like a concise and efficient way to cover literary terms. I forgot TOG Ancients doesn't start with creation. I remember noticing that in the sample and wondering about that. Thanks for the reminder! My kids have enjoyed being combined this year as well. If we stay with MFW, it will be interesting to see what combined history really looks like in MFW. They are still pretty separated this year in 1850-Mod, except for the states and presidents studies and a few other readings here and there. Thanks again! I really appreciate your insights! Kathy ETA: I meant to ask, are you using any of MFW high school?

Thanks, Kristen! That is my fear, that TOG will be too full, especially with starting Apologia science and pre-algebra next year. We are using MFW this year and it does feel more balanced than anything we've used (SL, HOD). Since we are doing 1850-Mod, we have the SOTW AG questions and outlining. I realized that in the other years, we won't have discussion questions. I am used to those with SL and am concerned about losing those. But at the same time, I don't want to end up history and lit-heavy again just to have the discussion questions. The TOG dialectic questions look daunting and the rhetoric questions look insane to me -- so.many.pages. On the other hand, I like that the lit pages cover the literary terms and that the writing assignments apply to the history. We are already pulling in some of the SL LA assignments to MFW to have writing across the lit and history. I guess with the notebooking in the other MFW levels, we'd have some writing there. We'd be moving into the PP guides in MFW, and I'd likely continue to pull in SL readers like we are doing this year. Is there a way to keep the TOG workload manageable? What would you recommend for doing that? We are doing well with book basket this year. I was dreading it, but I put my older dd in charge of putting books on hold and she loves that and is very responsible about it. So that is actually getting done, and they love that part of our day. I'm wondering if it would be best to keep the extra reading to book basket rather than more scheduled reading in TOG. We have always been after the ever-elusive balance in our homeschool days, so I have to be careful in what I select. But, I am adding in parts of SL and HOD this year to round things out, and I wonder if I wouldn't have to do that with TOG. I add in SL readers for both girls, HOD Bigger history readings for my younger since MFW just has the workbook and state study for her age at this level, SL LA writing assignments, and some SL read-alouds. We've also been finishing up Core D on the side to smooth the gap to this year of MFW. I do really like that SL gives me the overview of the book and the discussion questions and vocabulary definitions. But I like that my girls are enjoying doing parts of school together with MFW. I know in TOG it wouldn't be as much together since one would be Dialectic and one would be Upper Grammar. So there's that to consider, too. They'll already be split off in science next year no matter what, though. Can you compare the Bible component for MFW CTG and TOG Ancients? Any other comparisons between those two levels would be appreciated! Thanks! Kathy

Hi, Can anyone who has used both compare the two? This would be for 7th and 4th graders next year. We are using MFW 1850-Mod this year (first year with MFW). We've never used TOG. Thanks, Kathy

Does TOG do this if you use Writing Aids?

After using both BJU and CLE, I prefer BJU's teaching of concepts through 4th or 5th grade. We switched back to CLE for my 6th grader this year, and it is going well. The BJU lessons started taking too long to teach, and I felt my dd could use some spiral practice this year to shore up all the concepts she's been learning the past few years. We both appreciate the shorter teaching time. The lesson pages feel long to her, but she seems to prefer it to the long teaching time in BJU. She can at least do the We Remember on her own if I'm not available for teaching the new section. I think this year of constant review will be good for her. I'm planning to continue with CLE for pre-algebra, but am still evaluating my other options. We also add the Process Skills books for bar modeling/word problems, and the Math Express books for mental math practice. I think these two books round things out nicely. I do still pull in some of the concepts taught in BJU to bring more conceptual teaching into the CLE lessons. I just think BJU does a better job in the early years with flushing out the concepts, but I think CLE also serves a purpose with its spiral review. I'm hoping this combination will give us a good foundation for upper level math.

We like Vocabulary Cartoons and Very, Very Vocabulary.