Thanks, Nicole!

Thank you! I have added that book to my cart! The "pronounce for spelling" technique seems to work better for her than applying the rules. She can know and repeat the rules but not apply them. I will give her your test, thanks. I have been thinking about getting her eyes checked to see if there is any need for vision therapy. It could be that is the issue. Do you find that the vision problems affect their ability to spell? Thanks again! Kathy ETA: I'm not seeing a sheet with the 36 pt double-spaced and 12 pt single-spaced fonts. Do you have one, or do I need to copy the nonsense words and make one? Thanks!

Thank you!

He is the author of the DIVE dvds, but has now created his own online program that is based on the same methodology as Saxon. He assigns 20 problems per day rather than 30.

Thank you! Can you recommend a typing program for dyslexics?

Thank you! This information was helpful!

Thanks, Nicole! What grades did you use MW across? I'm glad to hear about your experience with PZ. I heard the same thing from someone else.

Thank you for all the info., Lori! ?

Thanks, Lori! Did you get an official diagnosis on the stealth dyslexia? How? I have suspected for a few years now that my dd might be dealing with that. She reads at a very high level with excellent comprehension, and her vocabulary scores are always very high on standardized testing. She also enjoys writing. But she has struggled with spelling and math facts. I feel like I might need to get her eyes checked for focusing issues as well. She does wear glasses/contacts. Did your son happen to do better with spiral programs? That is what seems to work best for this dd. The reason I have done the reading checks is because she was constantly skipping the "little" words. Doing these checks has really helped her focus on that, and having more fluency in her reading (not as many starts and stops/pauses). I hesitate to drop that because it has helped her, but at the same time it is really tedious to do all that. We dread that part when we get to it. Maybe I'll do it a little longer and then drop it and see if she resumes her old habits or not. Or, I could just watch her other reading aloud, as you did. That would be easier. I have them read parts of the Bible aloud each day, so I would be able to catch it there if it were returning. I own ABCs and All Their Tricks. What did you do with that? Thanks for the tips on streamlining! LA has always been a huge chunk of our day, and I'm trying to get it under control. We've been using CLE for grammar, but it is so full that we end up needing to use it most days in order to finish by the end of the year (and this year we didn't even finish the 9th LU and didn't do the 10th at all). I've been looking at R&S and AG as other options. We are likely using Heart of Dakota RTR next year, and I may try to do their LA suggestions for the most part because they do a better job of balancing/rotating things than I do. We'd have the 5th day free to do any other LA we need to do like another day of Megawords and also the Fig. Speaking that we're trying to finish. HOD spreads R&S out, only going through level 6 by the end of 8th grade, and using levels 7 and 8 over all 4 years of high school. R&S has fewer lessons than CLE, so that might help us. Or we could spread AG out over 8th and 9th to have some breathing room as well. My dd does well with CLE and the spiraling nature of it, but it really only goes through 9th (and only parts of their 9th grade course), and then we'd need to find something else for review, anyway. I've read that R&S is more thorough than CLE in general, and since HOD includes some of the R&S writing instruction, it might make sense to go that route, anyway. Thanks again for your help!

Thanks, my dd can generally pronounce and read, but cannot recall the spelling, either. And yes, generally she can tell me several possibilities or pick the correct answer from a list of possibilities. It's possible she needs to work on visualization strategies. For the most part, she cannot recall which endings to use when there is no rule to apply (-ant, -ent and those variations, -tion, -sion, etc.). It's usually when there is a schwa sound and any vowel could be used. I suspect she might have stealth dyslexia. She reads and comprehends very well, but has always struggled with spelling, math facts, etc. She does seem to be improving each year. It's just tedious to keep focusing on spelling when we have so many other things to be working on as well, but I don't want to give that up, just use whatever is most efficient.

Thank you for all of this information, Lori! ?

Have you looked at Shormann math? I haven't used it, have just been looking into it. It includes 1/2 a geometry credit in Algebra 1 and can be done over more than a year (you have access for 2 years). It has 20 problems per lesson, but he suggests using a timer rather than trying to finish a lesson a day. It has 100 lessons (plus quizzes and quarterly exams), so there is time to spread it out. It spirals like CLE. The Algebra 2 includes 1/2 a geometry credit, too. So you could take 3 years to do the 2 courses and not really lose any time credit-wise. Kathy

Is anyone using this, and can you compare it to Saxon? Thanks, Kathy

Lori, is this true for LL8 as well? Does the writing instruction/component increase in the high school levels (enough to fulfill 1/2 of an English credit)?

We did CLE 7 LA this year, and my dd was able to keep up with it. At times, I felt a little overwhelmed at how much they were supposed to be keeping straight, but she seemed to manage it well, lol. She enjoys grammar, though, so that might have made a difference. I am actually contemplating a switch to R&S next year just to get a bit more of a mastery/big picture approach. I saw some things in R&S she hasn't covered in CLE, but need to check the CLE 8 scope and sequence to be sure we won't hit those things next year. I feel like CLE has been weak in a few areas like comma rules, formal names for verbs (transitive/intransitive), that kind of thing. But overall, I'm impressed at the level of diagramming my dd can do! I have read all the lessons alongside her, but because I haven't been doing the work, I'm not sure I could get it all right! I do check her work to stay in the loop. We stopped after LU 9 lesson 9 due to it being the end of the year, but everything beyond that looked like review, so I do think you could pace it to 3-4 times a week and still get most of it done. Hope this helps! Kathy

My rising 8th grade dd is not a natural speller, but has improved steadily each year. We've used Megawords 1-3 over the last 2 years, and I am not sure how much it is helping. It takes more time than I'd like, considering all the other components of LA we are trying to hit. I don't mind sticking with it if it is worth it. For those of you who have used it, do you feel it gets stronger as you go on? Did you keep doing the reading checks? I feel like the end of each section is kind of tedious to complete. My dd doesn't really care for it in general. I'm ho-hum about it. I was also considering Sequential Spelling or Phonetic Zoo for next year. Which of the three do you feel is strongest for helping a struggling speller? Thanks, Kathy

I agree with this. With the BJU Pre-Algebra, my dd was actually rising to the challenge of the level C problems much better than I expected, but I felt like it was at the risk of missing the foundation. BJU can come in at such a high level and be so technical sometimes that there is a real risk of missing the foundation if you aren't careful.

We tried BJU Pre-Algebra this year (parent-led, not DL), and ended up having to ditch it in November. I was having my dd do the honors assignments as given in the TM, but it was taking us 2-3 hours a day and was just too much. In hindsight, I should have tried cutting out all of the level C problems for awhile, and that might have helped some. They are very good but very time-consuming. The other issue was that the tests have some problems that are unlike anything they have worked in their lessons (even doing the honors problems!). I spoke with BJU about this and found out that their DL tests are different than the paper tests they sell, and are much more reasonable. The tests would often leave my diligent dd in tears because of questions on things she had not seen before, even though she had studied carefully. They just required the assimilation of too many new topics at once in a way they had not done before. I had to turn those problems into extra credit, but it was hard sorting through every test to figure out what was realistic and what wasn't. I spoke with one of the DL teachers at convention, and he recommended using the chapter review for the test, possibly doing half as the review and the other half as the test. My dd did well on the reviews, so in hindsight I kind of wish we had gone that route. The other issue was that the lessons were really long, covering too many topics at once. I do feel like BJU is very thorough and very conceptual, and I appreciate that they use proper terminology, but there was just too much packed into each lesson. It wore us out. We'd think we were about done, turn the page, and there would be 4 more topics to cover. Then all the problems to do. The chapters were so full that my older dd would get through and not remember what was covered in the first part of the chapter, even with the little bit of daily review each day. I realize now that the TM assignments for the honors and standard levels are not realistic, but I trusted BJU to tell me what was appropriate. I felt misled in general as a first-time homeschool pre-algebra teacher. I was trusting BJU to give me guidance, and it really led to a frustrating year. I do think the program is strong, and that it covers many more topics than are typically covered in a pre-algebra program, probably because BJU only goes to Pre-Calculus, but I think it's important to go into it knowing all of this. I still might consider it for my younger dd, who seems to have more of a math bent and not need as much review, but only with an extreme amount of modification. Hope this helps! Kathy

Wanted to bump this thread...

There is an online version of Sequential Spelling that has come out. It looks like it has a 5-day trial to get a feel for it. Kathy

I've wondered about teaching straight from the student text, but there is so much packed in the TM that it seems you lose part of the lesson without it. But after comparing BJU to other textbooks, there is so much more packed in each lesson that even just covering the textbook would be more than a lot of kids are getting. Yes, on the FB group the teachers have commented that they write the tests to fit what they want to cover and test over. We've had a math focus for too many years with my oldest, at first because we were trying every curriculum known to man to figure out what we wanted to use. It's been much smoother with my younger dd, who used BJU from the start. I need my older dd to have a smooth time with math from here on out. She has worked hard for years and years now, and we can't just keep pouring all this time into math and not have time for margin and other subjects. I need something very open-and-go, a manageable amount of time, thorough, with fair tests, and where I don't have to pick and choose what problems to assign every day. I just don't think BJU is going to be it. Maybe once my younger dd comes along, if they have a new edition that is more reasonable, we can use it. Thanks again for your insights.

Thanks, Caia. I appreciate your trying to encourage and help. So you have not really been teaching from the TM yet? Is that correct? The TM plus the textbook is where I am finding the lessons to drag on and on for 45 minutes or more. Is there an honors problem set option in the DL at all? Yes, you are right, the honors problem set in the TM is an overwhelming amount of work. It usually involves odds in A and B, all of C, the Dominion problems, and the odds on the cumulative review. I stopped assigning the Dominion probs and started just talking through them. Sometimes she worked them and sometimes she didn't. The Cs took a lot of time. If there is also a quiz that day, it's just an extraordinary amount of time for math. I also check daily and do corrections, so that adds on to the total amount of time. If you are doing DL tests, I can see why they wouldn't seem unreasonable. Do you do the computer or the paper ones? I understand DL has both and they are the same? Even if I assigned fewer problems, the long lessons would still do us in. We can't seem to change that. It's just too many topics in one lesson. I have considered using the chapter review as the chapter test, but she really needs the chapter review to tie it all together and review! Sometimes there has been so much information covered by the time we get to the review that she has forgotten what was covered in the first part of the chapter! And if we use the actual tests, I feel like she needs to work the C problems in order to even be partly ready for them! It's just a rather poor setup for parent-led, I feel like. In some ways, I feel like they try to force you into DL, which is not a good fit for us.

Caia, are you doing the DL or parent-led? We have been doing BJU Pre-Algebra parent-led this year, but are finally throwing in the towel. The long lessons are doing us in. We are so burned out, and when I compare BJU to other textbooks, it is covering things at a much higher level than what is really needed. My dd has been a trooper and has stuck with it and fought to do it all, but we are spending way too much time on math every day. In addition, the paper tests are just absurd, in my opinion. There are problems that are so much more complex than what they did in their lessons that they are unfair, and oftentimes are unnecessarily tricky. My dd studies hard and works very hard and has been doing the extended honors level problems, and still gets so frustrated on the tests when she hits those problems. It's not just an extension of the concepts, which I think is fine, but something they really have never seen before, or something that requires them to assimilate everything they've learned in a very complicated way that no amount of studying would prepare them for. We've really tried to hang with this program, but are finally cutting our losses and moving on. When I posted this on the BJU FB group, I got the same responses and frustration. I found out that the DL tests are much easier and are designed by the DL teachers themselves. This frustrates me that they would make the parent-led so frustrating. I don't want to be forced into DL. My dd does well when we can move on when she's got a concept and slow down when she needs more time on something. I paid for the tests because I don't have the time or energy to sort through what she should and shouldn't be tested on. I'm curious which version (parent-led or DL) you are using, and what you are doing to keep the time reasonable. Thanks, Kathy

Same here. :)

LOL! My dd would love for us to slash and burn the tests! :) One other option is that there is a second chapter review in the Student Activities Manual that I could possibly use as a test. I think when I compared it with the textbook chapter review for Ch. 1, there was a difference, but I can't remember which one was harder or more complete. Wow, that's crazy that the DL tests are easy. My dd would not like hearing that, lol! These tests really push her to the limit. I really don't understand why they are designed like this. It's funny, I actually had a copy of the previous edition BJU Pre-A on hand from a friend at the beginning of the year and decided to go with this current edition. I may have missed the boat there! I ended up giving it back to her, and she passed it on to someone else. The Dominion problems are a nice challenge, but completely unnecessary at this level. My dd doesn't have the context for most of them to even make sense to her, and they usually require skills she hasn't learned yet. Even some of the harder C problems are that way. I've started noticing, too, that the harder C problems usually cover what is going to be taught in the next lesson. My dd is not crazy about this "discovery" approach. So I think cutting the C problems in half will help. I just need to let that go, which for some reason is hard for me! I think part of it is that I think she is capable of honors work, which the C problems are. But the amount of time math is taking is just really getting ridiculous, and is completely sucking away any interest or enjoyment of math from her. So I need to find a way to keep it manageable. I hope the other levels aren't this bad! I need to research that more, because I do really like the teaching overall. I think they just try to accomplish way too much in this pre-algebra year. I also have to be careful that we don't miss the foundation while trying to do the more challenging work. There's just so much packed in each lesson!