I always repeat the dictations as many times as it takes until they get it. They still get better at it as the year goes on.

Not wanting to wade into the fray, just wanting to make a few points. - most people send their kids to private school primarily in hopes of a better education. Another major reason is not because they don't want to mix with the riff-raff, but because they are hoping for a better environment overall, not just for security reasons. - virtually all private schools are non profit. The single biggest line item in their budget is the salaries and benefits of the teachers. Most of those teachers make far less than they would in a public school. The administrations are usually very small. - for all non-profit private schools, the tuition revenue does not even cover their costs. They all have a gap that they need to make up every single year. Some schools can fill part of that gap with income from their endowment, but most private schools have a small or no endowment. So the rest has to come from those same wealthy families who are already paying the crazy amount of tuition. The schools set their tuition lower on purpose for two reasons - to make their schools more feasible for more people, and because you can get a tax break for a donation to the school, but not for tuition. - most private schools offer a significant portion of their student body financial aid, and many offer the children of teachers discounted or free tuition. And by significant I mean upwards of 50% of the student body receiving some sort of aid. - the costs are so high mainly because they have a low student to teacher ratio, and also because of the financial aid. In the higher cost of living areas, they must pay teachers more just so they can afford to live in the area. - take a look at some of the per pupil expenditures for public schools in high spending districts. (I think DC is one of the highest) We chose to homeschool. We think we can do a better job, at least for now. Not everyone has our options, or our desires. Most people are just trying to give their kids the best opportunities they can, and they will make different decisions on how to do that.

A couple of thoughts. - leave it and come back the next day. Have her read it again and then try the questions. -let her go back and check the story or the answers - read it aloud together and stop every sentence it two to paraphrase or otherwise figure out if she understands what she is reading. You shouldn't have to do any of these more than a handful of times. It should click in after that. Hope that helps.

The Paleo Diet Run Like a Mother My two favorites :)

Assuming you are still looking for info... When my husband agreed for me to homeschool, it was with the understanding that I would obtain outside verification for his peace of mind. We went through various thoughts, but in the end I decided on individual achievement tests. We did the Wiat before we started, and the Woodcock-Johnson a year later. The plan was to do it every year, but after he saw the results, he said he didn't need to see any more outside verification. Score for me! The individual achievement tests are nationally normed, give percentiles and grade levels. They are also somewhat open-ended, so the questioner can keep going up in level of difficulty until your kid reaches their level of incompetence. The standardized tests like the SAT and the ITBS are also nationally normed and give percentiles and grade levels. The problem can be that the info isn't very useful for a gifted kid. Since you have to pick a grade level to give them, that's all they are going to get, if you know what I mean. If you pick the 5th grade test, and your kid aces it, you aren't really going to know if that means they should be at the 6th grade level or the 9th grade level; you just know that 5th grade was too easy. My understanding is that if it says 8th grade level on a group achievement test for 5th grade, it doesn't mean your child performed at the 8th grade level - it means an eighth grader would perform at the same level on that 5th grade test. Whereas on the individual test, an eighth grade level means your kid can do eighth grade work. If you are just looking for something like 99th percentile across the board, the regular standardized test is fine. If you need more nuanced info, the individual test would be the way to go. The group test is much less expensive, but if you administer it yourself it eats up a whole bunch of school time and is a pain in the neck. For the individual test, you just drop your kid off and then pick them up two or three hours later for a couple of days. I gave my kids the ITBS last fall, one grade level up and it was a horrific experience. It ate up almost two weeks of school. Hope that was coherent and that something in there helped :) Eta: Kai's suggestion above is a good one, but my husband wouldn't have accepted a test administered by me as outside verification. Make sure whomever you are answering to doesn't feel the same way!

We don't start fifth grade til next week, but when this has happened in the past, I've found it most helpful to just drop that subject. We move on to something else and come back to the original subject later or the next day. Some days their brains just aren't working. I try hard to distinguish between that and when they just don't want to do it. Focus is a skill. Takes work. Just my two cents.

Gosh I wish I could play. Y'all are totally my clothing tribe. But, I'm too brain dead to even approach witty :sad: Enjoying the thread though. Rock on.

when my daughter went through the sections, I checked her answers and eyeballed the "wordy explanations.". If I saw something interesting, I either had her read it ,or we read it together. If it was straightforward, or she solved it the same way they did, we skipped it. Sometimes their solutions are really cool, and totally different from how we solved it.

My dd started the algebra book in mid-April and just about finished chapter 5 at the end of May. She started this book right after finishing the AoPS Prealgebra book, so she had some momentum, and familiarity with the method. Also, it is important to note that she spent up to 2 hours or more on math per day (not every day), by her choice. Pacing has been about one section per day, with the exercises, and 2-3 days for the chapter ends. If I were just starting out with AoPS, I would assume two days per section (one day for the new material and one day for the exercises), and 3-5 days for chapter ends. Or, two hours per section, and 5-7 hours per chapter end. Of course, some chapters will go more quickly than others. Her pacing was about the same for the Prealgebra book, after about chapter 3. But like I said, she spends a lot of time on math. Got sucked in. I love it! Hope that helps a little.

Just wanted to say I feel your pain! Sounds like you are doing the right thing. It's such a fine line between not advocating enough and over advocating, isn't it? I always hated the possibility of being thought the pushy parent, but sometimes it was that or a miserable kid. Actually, it ended up mostly being a miserable kid anyway, but there was no way to know that. Stay strong!

I have to say, I wouldn't bother with Keys to Algebra. (and no, they took a day or two each here, but we stopped after book 4) I'd also vote for AoPS Prealgebra. Or, just start whatever algebra book you were planning on using. The first few chapters are likely Prealgebra anyway and you can get a feel for whether it's a fit. And if she hits a wall, I'd consider whether it's because she's not ready for high school math, or whether she's not ready for a high school textbook. I find the AoPS books good in part because they assume the kids are younger than usual (not as young as yours though :) ) and they don't require a lot of writing. I spent a whole year flailing around after sm6. I wish AoPS Prealgebra had been out then. I also like Crossing the River with Dogs, and Russian Math 6

I love the plain Staples brand pencils. I used to like Ticonderoga, but the erasers stink. The staples pencils have good erasers and write well also. I've never tried Black Warriors.

I have a simple spreadsheet with the days of the week along the top and the subjects along the side, creating a bunch of boxes. I print a blank one out each week for each kid. As they work, I write down what they did. Every few weeks I transfer them to a separate binder. The key for me is doing it as we go, and that it is on paper. It takes virtually no time. If I were doing it later, it would never get done. I don't track time. I also keep a running, written list of all the curricula we are using, one sheet per child. I write down the day we started it, my goal to complete it, and then actual date completed. At the end of the year, I make a one page "report" for me/dh, listing everything they have completed, and where they are in the ones that are still midstream. Gives me a great sense of accomplishment :) I do sometimes go back and look at my log, particularly to check things like how long it took to get through something (esp math), or if it's been a long time since we did something, where we left off!

:grouphug: My kids turn into wild animals without structure. I sympathize. Maybe there is a learning curve to the spontaneous outings and as you do it more he will adjust to the "rules" and expectations? I recommend reading The Year of Learning Dangerously. I just finished it yesterday. It has nothing to do with your problem, but it's so funny that it cheered me up immeasurably.

I have to say, I read it in college in German, and couldn't make heads or tails of it. So I read it in English translation, and STILL didn't get it. That's when I decided that maybe German wasn't for me :D So, much as I would love to nerd out with you, I think it's hopeless...

I don't know much either, but I think there is Koine Greek, Attic Greek, and Homeric Greek. Koine Greek is biblical, the other two are ancient. I thought Athenzae was Attic Greek, but I could be wrong. Galore Park sells a Greek for Beginners that may work for you.

Might be nice to make a portfolio of her best and representative work. Would be a nice memento if nothing else.

I think if you did that for a couple of weeks, that would help him to make the connections between the charts and the application. I wouldn't worry about occasional incorrect vocabulary selection.

When you say he bombs the English to Latin translations, is everything wrong? So, vocabulary choices, declension endings, tense endings, everything, or is there one area that is particularly bad? Like, maybe the vocabulary is mostly right, but the endings are all wrong. If you have him do one sentence at a time, does the same thing happen? Or, take one sentence at a time and have him parse it first before translating it - does that make a difference? In my non expert opinion, I think you'd need to figure out what exactly is holding him back here, or there is no reason to suppose that Spanish would be any better.

This, yes. I'm guilty of this too. I find I sometimes have to literally sit on my hands and close my lips tightly to avoid saying anything :D. It's worth it though, when she figures it out on her own. I wish I were better at it. Exponents and percents were hard here too. It's all a blur now though, I wish I had paid more attention to which were particularly hard or easy. I found Singapore gave her a great background for the rate problems, for example. Thanks for your thoughts! Nice to know we aren't alone. I'm trying to decide if I should sign her up for the algebra online class. I considered doing the one over the summer, but decided that would be too mean... It would be mean, wouldn't it? :tongue_smilie:

IRL, I never call my kids gifted, and I only state what they are working on if someone asks directly. On the boards, I never call them gifted either, but I will include their ages if I feel it's relevant. I think a lot of it goes back to how I was treated when I was growing up. Sad, but true. We all have baggage! Rivka, I did talk to you at Valley Forge, and I never felt you were bragging about anything, fwiw. :001_smile:

I apologize in advance - this is going to be long and wordy, but I've been wanting to get this out there, in the hopes that it might help other families in the same boat. My older dd finished Singapore 6b just before she turned 8. We just did the workbooks; she flew through them. We spent 3rd grade flailing around. We tried parts of Keys to Algebra, Sinagapore New Math Counts, Russian Math. I looked at and eliminated Lial's BCM, Foerster's, Discovering Mathematics, Life of Fred. The problem wasn't that she didn't get the concepts; the problem was the texts were too overwhelming for her. In retrospect I realize that a page of 20-30 problems is not a big deal for most 12-13 year olds, but it's very intimidating for an 8 year old. So, all along, I really wanted to use AoPS algebra, but I thought, she's not ready for it, and I'll only use it if she is "that" kind of math student. So beginning of this year (4th grade), we tried it. It was horrible. We didn't even make it through the first chapter. She was an algorithm girl. Give her an algorithm and she could do the problems all day long. But she couldn't apply them in other contexts. In the meantime, AoPS came out with their Prealgebra book. I looked at it, liked it a lot, but thought, oh, she has already covered most of this material, and she is ready for Algebra. This would be a step down. Then I had my moment of clarity. I realized that wanting to do algebra was kind of a pride thing. That was stupid. I'm sure I could have found an algebra program that would have worked for her. But I realized I didn't want to. I didnt want her to be a math machine. I wanted her to be a problem solver - to not be afraid to tackle problems she had no idea how to solve. So, I took a deep breath, and decided to do the AoPS Prealgebra with her. It was hard. Really tough. That way of thinking was totally alien to her. She hated the discovery method. For the first few chapters, we went through the explanations together. I held her hand through many of the exercises and often for problems in the review sections. She cried more than once a session. We'd do 2 or 3 pages in a sitting. Slowly, things started to improve. She started to figure out how to apply things she had learned before to solve unfamiliar problems. She'd cry only once a session, then only once every few days. Then it started to get interesting. She really got into it. She picked up speed. She really wrestled with the problems. She would voluntarily start with math, and spend up to three hours on it. Without complaint! No crying! She finished the book in April and started the Algebra book the same day. She just finished the third chapter yesterday. She is a completely different person than she was before. She enjoys math, understands it in a new way, likes the discovery method, and will willingly devote hours to it. I feel like this is the best decision I've made since deciding to homeschool them. Personally, I just love the AoPS approach. I wish these books had been around when I was a math student. There is so much love of and joy in math that just permeates the books. I often find myself working problems alongside her rather than looking up the solutions. And they are funny! Where else could you find a problem that says "the men in the Not Much Left Club counted up the hairs on their heads and put the numbers on a stem and leaf plot. Find the mean, median and mode. If I, with my full head of hair, join the club, which number will be most affected?". Also, my younger daughter started doing Beast at the same time, and I could see the progression. Her book asked her to find the pattern for polygons (I can't remember exactly what it was). The Prealgebra book has them finding the pattern and then figuring out the formula. Anyway, I guess all this to say that I think AoPS is worth a shot for almost any bright kid. And if it is rough going at first, don't be discouraged. It says right at the front that the discovery method doesn't work for all kids and it's okay to present the material to them instead. You can tweak it! And of course, this is not to say that this is the only way or the right way. You have to pick what works for you. Would love to hear any thoughts and happy to answer any questions.

Yes, the kindle version of BFSU1 also has the hyperlinked table of contents. I have both the books and the kindle versions. I'm finding the kindle version useful as I try to familiarize myself with volume 2. For school, I use the books. I have the spine cutoff, and just pull out the relevant lessons as I need them and throw them in my master binder. I haven't tried to use the kindle version for school.

My dd was 9 this year. We tried GSWL, but it was too slow and boring for her. We tried Lively Latin last year, but it was too all over the place. We are now using So You Really Want to Learn Latin book 1 and we both love it. It is very clear and straightforward, with no fluff. I have also looked at Latin Prep and Latin for the New Millennium, but she is too young for those. Even though SYRWTL Latin is designed for 8th grade, it is more accessible for us because of its clarity. We can go at whatever pace suits us. It is basically just grammar. I'd encourage you to take a look. I am so happy with it.

DD almost 10 Math - continue with AoPS Algebra + Kumon Reading - free choice with occasional discussion History - k12 human odyssey + SOTW with younger sister Science - maybe we will finally finish BFSU 1 and start BFSU2. May also work through Tarbuck Earth Science Grammar - continue with Analytical Grammar Season 1. After we are done with that I'll decide whether to continue on to 2 or just do the review for the remainder of the year. Depends on how pressed for time we feel. Writing - finish WWE4 and start WWS Spelling - continue with SWO F, start G Latin - continue with So You Really Want to Learn Latin 1. Start book 2 Music History/Art History - self designed, each once every other week. Geography - once a week, not really sure what I am using yet. DD almost 8 Math - I think she'll finish SM 6A this year so we will finish 6B next year and move on to CWP6 and maybe the IP as well. She has finished Beast 3A. Don't know if she will get to 3B this year or not, but in any case we will finish Beast 3 next year and continue with Kumon Reading - free choice History - finish SOTW2 and start 3 Science - finish BFSU1 and start 2 Grammar - finish FLL3 and start FLL4 Writing - WWE3 Spelling - finish SWO D and start E Foreign Language - nothing planned at the moment, but we may go back to Getting Started with Spanish, or do Spanish Prep 1 all together. Depends on if we have enough time to fit it in. Music History/Art History - with dd10 Geography - she will continue with Evan Moor Daily Geography simply because she likes it, and if I find something I like for dd10, she will join in on that. They will both continue with piano, tennis, ballet and chess.