:lol: Yes, "grammer" is one of my pet peeves, along with "even has it's own workbook." Either master the proper use of the apostrophe, or don't teach it, please.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know, I've seen that clown, and he would be enough reason to say "No!"

Dislikes: So anyway, I dislike anything that begins with, "So anyway,...." I dislike products that use weird font combinations, TOO MANY CAPS, and too many exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dislike full-price products that come across as beta versions (hello, Memoria Press). :glare: I dislike scribbly pictures. Okay, actually I hate scribbly pictures. I dislike it when a "teacher's manual" for math has the helpful suggestion to "teach the student subtraction with borrowing across place values." Thanks for that. :tongue_smilie: Likes: After a certain point (middle of 3rd grade?), I like materials addressed to the student, or at least materials that the student can begin to use more independently. CLE fits this bill nicely, as do Wordly Wise, Phonetic Zoo, Ecoutez Parlez (French), and English from the Roots Up cards. Writing with Skill starts to address the student directly, which is a welcome change from Writing with Ease. I like that SWB decided to directly instruct and assign work to students in WWS. This way I can say, "Susan Wise Bauer wants you to do this assignment this way, Sweetie, so get to work and follow her instructions!" :D I like when it is evident that the author and/or publisher of a product put forth the effort to actually proofread their own material. Of course, some typos are forgivable. But it bugs me when I've paid good money for something, and then feel as though I now need to edit it, too (and I do). So when a product is well-produced, that gets my attention and respect. I like CLE because we enjoy finishing a book and starting a new one, LOL. It feels like we're making progress that way. :)

:grouphug: Sorry to hear that is your news right now, Mrs. R. Hang in there! Sometimes, one foot in front of the other is the best you can do. :grouphug:

kindle life studies this morning = What is a rolling boil and why does that not work for cream of wheat? lol.

Like I said before, you keep working on this and the socks, and we'll save up for the weddings. :lol:

As far as the difficulty with noise is concerned, I used to be this kid, and I never outgrew it. I still have a very hard time concentrating with "background noise," and I don't think maturity has a thing to do with it. I hear everything, I always have. I remember one time when I was about 11 years old, just exploding about "all the noise in this house," and my parents said, "What?" To them, the house was quiet. I then told them all the sounds I could hear -- the neighbor's dog barking down the street, the traffic on the road, the clock ticking in the kitchen, the dishwasher running, the dryer in the laundry room, my sister's radio upstairs, the squeaky rocking chair, and my father's watch (on his wrist). They were like :huh: :huh: , "You really HEAR all that?" Yup. There are times now when I use ear plugs, just to give my nervous system a break. If I had known how helpful those would be, I might have used them in school, especially during math exams. Hindsight is 20/20, right? If I could afford them, I would invest in a pair of Bose noise-cancelling head phones. My husband will try to tell me that he's going to be in _________ (insert state) next week for work, while (1) the range fan is on high, (2) he is cooking a stir-fry in the iron skillet, (3) the girls are watching Liberty's Kids in the adjoining room, (4) two fans and two air conditioners are running full blast, (5) the phone is ringing, and (6) I am washing dishes. After 13 years, does he really think that will compute? I mean, really? So we have a rule that if it's happening, it gets written on the calendar. That, I can see. You have to use whatever works for your particular child. If a noisy (to her) environment doesn't cut it (for her), no amount of saying it should will make it so. You will have to decide if it's time for assessment and assistance, or if you will to continue to blame her for what she possibly cannot change. I do think it's possible to support, and perhaps change, some of what your daughter is doing that frustrates you, but only if you begin from an understanding that this is how she is wired (if that is the case). Wouldn't you think that most kids in most situations would pick up on social cues that one doesn't, for example, walk into a room with one's mouth in gear? Most people probably pick up on the fact that it's better to walk into a room quietly, assess whether or not there's a conversation in progress, wait for an entry point, and then begin to speak. But if a person doesn't pick up on this (by a certain age), you have to wonder why. My father is 84, and he still walks into a room with his mouth in front of his feet. But I do think this can be addressed, intentionally, if we understand (first) that this is probably wired into a person. My twins do this constantly, but it's getting much better with work. What we do is to re-do the scene -- Okay, you walked into the room with your mouth, go back out, walk back in (silently), decide if there is something going on that you should wait for, then find your point of entry into the scene. We practice that until it becomes much more automatic. Obviously, no one ever took the time to do this with my dad. :laugh: Sometimes I will say to my girls, "What is going on around you? What was happening, just now, when you interrupted that conversation?" It's not said in a condescending way or blaming way, but matter-of-factly, as if we could all just step back and observe the scene for a bit. We look at "the scene" -- who was talking, was that person finished, how would you know, and so on. We talk about figuring out when to jump in. I think this is in part because they are identical twins, so they've been competing for space and attention since in utero. My theory on it, anyway, LOL. Ten is tough. I think that's when moms want to see some signs of maturity and those signs might still be a way off down the road. FWIW, I was like that last year with my oldest, who now, at 11.5 is only beginning to come out of the profoundest flakiness ever seen on the earth. Hang in there.

Have you given her the placement tests for WWE? They are here: Level 3 (passing this would place a student in either WWE Level 4 or WWS 1) -- click on "diagnostic evaluation" https://welltrainedmind.com/p/the-complete-writer-writing-with-ease-workbook-3/ Level 4 (passing this would place a student in either WWS 1 or another intermediate writing course) https://welltrainedmind.com/p/complete-writer-writing-ease-workbook-4/ You might also want to read and consider Susan's updated recommendations for writing (click on "See Susan's recommendations"). FWIW, I would not begin with WWE 4 or WWS 1 with an 11 year old who struggles to write in either English or her local language. I would (1) do the placement tests, working up from WWE 1 through to her stopping point -- where does she begin to struggle?, then (2) start with the previous level. In my opinion, it would be better to lay a solid foundation through copywork, dictation, and narration, than to frustrate her with something that is too challenging. If you started with WWS 2 or 3, you could accelerate by doing two days' worth of work in one day. It's usually copywork or dictation, plus a narration, so very doable in one session. I did the first 15 weeks of WWS 1 this past year (5th grade) with my daughter, who turned 11 in February. Her native language is English, she hears it spoken and sees it in writing all around her, and her writing is her strongest subject. Even with all of that in her favor, WWS 1 was still challenging at times. It was a good workout for her, but I wouldn't have wanted to do that with a struggling student. In a way, what's the point? Writing with Skill 1 is directed more towards the student, and is less dependent on the teacher to spoon-feed every little bit of the lesson. If a student struggles with more basic aspects of writing, it would be best, IMO, to work on those foundational skills before starting WWS 1. If you want to work on vocabulary development, I recommend Wordly Wise 3000. Here's a link: http://www.wordlywise3000.com/

My mom turned 80 this year, and my dad just turned 84 last week. We live 45 minutes away from them, and sometimes that seems too far. I can't imagine how I'd feel living farther away than that, if they got to the point of needing us more than they do now. As it is, I know that seeing the girls really cheers them up from time to time. So I'm glad we live as close by as we do. On the other hand, I suppose if we were happily settled in Europe, well... that might be hard to give up. And the thought of an international move, yikes! I truly wouldn't know where to begin with that. I'd have to PM you for advice, LOL. Good luck with whatever you do! Hang in there!

We have been reading and reading and reading this summer. The girls have been crafting, crocheting, knitting, dancing in the playroom, pretending, making up plays, riding bikes, drawing, doing chores, spending time with rabbits, and overall just having a very relaxing, un-busy summer. They declare that they haven't been bored at all, so I am glad they've had this time to be free to pursue their own interests. We finished The Voyage of the Dawn Treader last night. As expected, Squeaky burst into tears when Reepicheep sailed over the wall of water into the Utter East, never to be seen again. No reassurances that he came safely to Aslan's country would stem the flood of tears. My sensitive child. Of course, her twin also started crying, because when one cries, the other always follows. Well, ladies, we are going to start back up to school a bit this week. Here's the plan: Monday Orientation: Day 1 -- Do a broad overview of this year's Grade Level Work, Group Work, and Outside Activities Composition with oldest daughter Summer Science -- hands-on projects Tuesday Orientation: Day 2 -- Go into more detail about this year's Grade Level Work and Group Work, along with the homeschool room set-up & routines (what's different, what's the same) Composition with oldest daughter Show Squishy & Squeaky how to do a Phonetic Zoo lesson Wednesday Spa Day -- exercise, showers, peppermint facials, a back rub for each kid, nail polish (red!), fancy hair styles Finish up our Bird Study from last year -- read the final chapter in What's That Bird?, review the bird flash cards, listen to bird songs CD while coloring in the Peterson's book (this is so relaxing!) Thursday & Friday Squishy -- Summer Sleepover at Grammy's Sugar Lump & Squeaky -- They have plans, whatever they may be! Me -- Work out the final tweaks in the preparation for the year Saturday Go to my mom's house to pick up the kid Next week... we are back in business, hopefully! :scared: Am I up to this? One in 6th and two in 4th? :svengo:

Perhaps some of these resources will work for your remaining three students: https://simplycharlottemason.com/store/product-category/product-science/ Also, here is a link for Outdoor Hour Challenges at Handbook of Nature Study Blog: http://handbookofnaturestudy.com/ You might find Nature Study 101 a useful place to begin again: http://handbookofnaturestudy.com/2011/01/nature-study-helps-and-hints.html/ If you ever do want to go back and reread CM's original series, she discusses Science in Volume 1 (pages 218-223) and Volume 6 (page 264-271). There are Concise Summaries here, as well as a Modern English version here. In our homeschool, it helped to begin with several modern field guides. While we like Handbook of Nature Study (we downloaded it as a PDF for free), the photos don't do the subjects justice, so modern field guides fill that need nicely. We have field guides (mostly Peterson) for Eastern Birds, Eastern Trees, Flowers, Horses, Rocks & Minerals, Snakes & Reptiles, Astronomy, and something else I am forgetting now. We also purchased these lovely cards and wall charts from ABeka, even though we don't do their Science courses: http://www.abeka.com/ABekaOnline/BookDescription.aspx?sbn=25542 http://www.abeka.com/ABekaOnline/BookDescription.aspx?sbn=113042 http://www.abeka.com/ABekaOnline/BookDescription.aspx?sbn=25569 http://www.abeka.com/ABekaOnline/BookDescription.aspx?sbn=108545 I really wish ABeka made a set of cards for trees, instead of just the wall charts (which are nice, but the wrong format for us). My girls have studied the flower, insect, and bird card sets, all on their own, for hours and hours. We created a Nature Study space in our homeschool room. It's a space for the field guides, our nature study "kits" (more about those later), flower presses, card sets, collections of nature finds, several magnifying glasses, bug jars, critter keepers, and so on. We've had wasps nests, snake sheds, a muskrat skull, a random bone, an empty tortoise shell, deer moss, lichens, tree bark, sticks (and more sticks!), various pine cones, leaves, seeds, acorns, rocks, soil samples, magnets, shells, sand dollars, driftwood, pressed flowers, grass, a robins' nest (in a plastic bag) with eggs (fell out of a tree), insects, spiders (released after a while), a few tadpoles (later released), and more in our Nature Center. We've tried to grow plants there, too, but I can't grow anything for very long. :blushing: We assembled simple, portable, and compact nature study "kits" for each person. Each kit is in a sturdy plastic box and includes a small (unlined) notebook, pencils, colored pencils, a small magnifying glass (actually a jeweler's loupe), and some other items that the girls want to include. We take these kits on most outings, along with nets, critter keepers, and a few buckets, just in case we come across something awesome. The summer before last, it was assassin bugs, in all their many instars (stages). So scary! Last summer, it was damselfly nymphs at the local creek. That sparked a whole investigation of the life cycle of insects that are aquatic in their lymph stage. Amazing stuff! This summer, to tell the truth, we wimped out and stayed inside, it was so hot and humid. But we'll get back out in September. I also put together a 3-ring binder with information on some of the nature study opportunities we have near us -- an arboretum, a botanical garden, a fish hatchery, an aquarium, a zoo, rock collecting sites, wildlife management areas, watersheds, nature classes, federal parks, state parks, county parks, and so on. We've been able to get out more, simply because we know what's available to us locally. It's very helpful to collect the brochures at state parks; they are a well of information. Also, if you have a nature center near you, use their layout to glean ideas for your own nature study. If you have a fourth grader, you may be able to get a free year-long pass to federal parks, if they decide to renew the program for another year. At present, they haven't posted the registration for the new school year. We'll see if they do, since I have two fourth graders this year! https://everykidinapark.gov/get-your-pass/ If you decide to study birds, Cornell Ornithology is a goldmine of ideas and resources. Winter is a lovely time to study birds, depending on where you live. We put out bird feeders all winter long, and have truly enjoyed our winter guests over the years. We feed the hummingbirds in summer, too, and are sad when they leave us. If you find something and don't know what it is, you can snap a photo of it and research it later at home, using an online search. Look for "dichotomous key" and then whatever you want to identify. For example -- "dichotomous key" leaf -- if you can't identify a leaf. The National Wildlife Foundation has some good articles on nature study. Here's one on phenology, a topic most people don't consider when thinking about nature study. https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wildlife-Conservation/Phenology.aspx HTH.

The thing is, though, except for increasing responsibility, we don't replicate any of that at home, either in elementary or in middle school. I mean, unless you count coming down the stairs and turning left, my kids didn't "walk to school" last year (3rd/3rd/5th). :) And they won't ride the bus this year (4th/4th/6th). Homeschooling is just different from public school, so how can we take our cues from that other world? I think that if we are doing something so different from our own childhood school experiences, we have to accept that as our choice, with all of its possible repercussions, regardless of how unaligned it is with "typical" elementary or middle school experiences. We're just not on that road, so I don't see how we can (or why we would want to) add in those aspects of public school. A locker? Why? That's like giving my kid a tent peg, because when I was young I went camping. What does she do with it in her own life? Her life is her life, not a replication of my childhood. But... I suppose there might be reasons to try that I just haven't encountered at this point. Last year with all three girls, we moved towards much more independence and autonomy in their work day. Also, much more independence and autonomy in their household chores, room maintenance, meal jobs, exercise, hygiene, pet care, thank you notes, church memory work, choir homework, and so on. Other than that, and somewhat streamlining the workload, I can't think of much else that shifted. Hormones? Yeah, definitely the hormones shifted. Theirs and mine. That's enough to deal with, without having to find three lockers. :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

:iagree: There are so many other books that are better suited to 4th graders. But then, I may be the only person on these boards who does not like the Hakim books (at all). I've checked them out so many times from the library, and I can never continue reading them. Her tone just turns me off. And I feel the same way about her science books, so it must just be a mismatch, I guess. If your library has them, you might want to preview the books for yourself. HTH.

I'll tell you what I would do, and what has worked so well here with my girls, who also read history books for fun: I would purchase all four hardback volumes of Story of the World, along with all four sets of the audio CDs. Yes, that will be an investment, but well-worth doing, IMO. My girls have listened to the CDs over and over, and sometimes they follow along in the books, or just read the books in their free time. Having these resources "on hand," especially the CDs, has allowed the girls to painlessly absorb an overview of history, usually without me having to assign anything. I would start to build up your home library, by purchasing engaging, living books on whatever era of history you want to focus on. For example, when we focused on American History, we filled our shelves with wonderful books on every topic from the first people to come to the New World, all the way up to recent US history. I labelled the books as "American Story," with a date (or range of dates), and the girls are free to pull books from the American History Bookshelves whenever they choose. Last year, we turned our focus to Ancient History (which we will continue this year), and we again built up our home library with wonderful books that the girls are free to read at will. By having the books here at all times, they can revisit old favorites ;), and the most I ever have to do is to assign "Read from History Book Basket." The History Book Basket is the selection of books that cover the topics we focus on that week (or 2-3 weeks), and these rotate in and out. But it's a low-key way to provide interesting history material for your daughter, at her own pace and to the extent that you have time in your routine. If you have the budget for it (and you think your daughter would learn well this way), I would invest in other audio books that address history topics. Peace Hill Press now sells Jim Weiss' CDs (his company was called Great Hall Productions), and many of these deal with history topics -- Thomas Jefferson's America; Abraham Lincoln & the Heart of America; Galileo & the Stargazers; Egyptian Treasures: Mummies & Myths; Carry On, Mr. Bowditch; I Said I Could & I Did; Gone West; Women in Blue or Gray -- and many more. My girls have listened to all of Jim Weiss' CDs over and over again. I think they have some of them memorized! :) Your library might have some of these, as well. Finally, I wouldn't worry about history too much at this stage, if you decide to have other priorities for a year or two. It's content, and content can get filled in later. Skills take time and consistency to build and strengthen. I agree that if your daughter is behind on math, that is the higher priority. So these (above) are kind of easy ways to get some content, in a relaxing, low-key way. History doesn't have to be a formal subject in 4th grade, IMO, if you have resources on your shelves that your daughter will use. ;) Also, FWIW, we didn't follow the "ancients first" philosophy here, and I have no regrets about that. In fact, I'm very pleased that we did it the way we did: Bible Stories + Biographies + Folk Tales when they were little Then a homemade "Around the World" geography study when they were a bit bigger -- library books & videos + crafts + cooking + "costumes" + music & games + map work (a ton of fun & we retained so much!) Followed by a few years of American History -- our bookshelf + American Girl books + audio books + history notebook pages + drawing history pictures with Draw-Write-Now + US Geography (we LOVED all of this!)... Followed by a year (so far) of Ancients -- our bookshelf + Mystery of History + Story of the World (audio & book) + history notebook summaries + a wall timeline + map work... This upcoming year, we plan to finish Ancients, with a bit of time to spare at the end for US Geography review Welcome to homeschooling! I have twin 4th graders about to begin, and I'm excited. Fourth grade is so much fun.

I don't know if this will be sufficient help, since we're just starting with CLE LA this year, but there are additional resources available for "just" diagramming instruction and practice. We purchased all of these items, because we want to really focus on diagramming this year. We also plan to work through only the grammar assignments (not spelling or writing or penmanship), and only half a level per year. HTH. https://www.clp.org/products/basics_of_diagramming_1637 https://www.clp.org/products/cle_english_handbook_767 https://www.clp.org/products/extra_practice_sheets_diagramming_2611 https://www.clp.org/products/extra_practice_sheets_diagramming_answer_key_2610

:iagree: Spanish is all over the place, Mandarin is easy to find, French a bit harder to come by, but German is tough here in the US. I agree with 3ladybugs, you have to snap up German learning tools when you find them! :) 3ladybugs -- We are focusing on French (for now), but we do have an interest in adding at least two years of German at some point down the road (9th & 10th?). I don't know any German, though, except numbers and colors and a few other things. Without a background in the language, it has been hard to know what resources will work with children.

Votes for Rabbits! Votes for Rabbits! We voted this morning, and here are the results: Sa = Rabbit Ha = Rabbit Ma = Rabbit Mama = Rabbit Okay, it is unanimous. Votes for Fish = 0. Votes for Rabbits = 4. We are rabbit folk. :biggrinjester: Talk about impulse anything! I was at a Bible study over two years ago, when the pastor's wife asked, "Would you like a totally free bunny for your girls?" I knew they had a litter they were trying to find homes for, and I have three girls, so I impulsively replied, "Thanks! We'll take three!" Now, all that hay and bedding later, here we are, happy rabbit people. :001_wub: :blink: Yup. Those "totally free" rabbits have eaten up and pooped out my retirement.

New Jersey has no requirements for days, hours, testing, portfolios, evaluations, or supervision. Just "equivalent instruction elsewhere than at school" is all we have to go by.

Thought A: Your #1 reason to homeschool, perhaps? Jean, I have watched as, time and time again, you and your daughter have found a path to learning and growth, doing whatever it takes to meet her where she is and finding ways to make it work. And, IMO, you have done this while prioritizing both the joy of learning and your mother-daughter relationship. You haven't (from what I've read of your posts on the AT threads) ;) sacrificed those precious things for the sake of checking off the "right" boxes. I think you have what it takes. My two cents. ************************* Thought B: I haven't done this yet, of course, hence my own personal, occasional panic. We will take it a year at a time, a child at a time, and see where we end up when we get there. But when I think about it, if I'm honest about my own public high school experience, one of the top motivations I have to (hopefully) homeschool the girls through high school is that I had so many seriously poor teachers throughout those years. And I think that, going through it at the time, I knew that they were poor teachers, that I was stuck with them, and that they weren't really capable of teaching me anything. They were truly terrible at teaching! Overall, they were essentially mediocre, bored, boring, bureaucratic, dull, lazy, and profoundly uninspiring. Sure, they put in the time, they showed up most days, but I can't think of a single teacher I had in those years who communicated in any way that learning was a wonderful, beautiful gift to be sought after and treasured. No, school was about "putting in the time." I contrast this to myself, quite frankly. I do, because I know that, whatever else my failings, whatever my weaknesses may be, I am not a fire already put out. I am not sure how all the logistics will work, but I know that I do have passion -- passion for Christ, passion for my good husband, passion for lifelong learning, passion for people, passion for my sweet daughters, passion for health & wellness, passion for the brokenhearted, passion for global missions, and passion for proper punctuation! :) Will I send my girls to our public high school so they can soak in a "qualified" teacher's Pool of Lethargy and Apathy? If there are teachers on fire, I never met any until my last two years of college, and thank God I did then! They redeemed the gift of education for me, and I am grateful to them. And so, I would like to retain the autonomy to line up teachers who inspire, who are on fire, who do more than show up. Whether this means myself or someone else, having the freedom to choose "good teachers" is so important to me. Otherwise, our kids are stuck in the Pool. HTH.

:svengo: Okay, now I want to hide under a rock until 2025, when it will all be over. I remember when I was pregnant with the first child, thinking, "Only one way out of this fix and that is through." My next pregnancy was with twins -- two months of bed rest (while somehow raising a toddler), after having had thyroid surgery and cancer treatment the previous year, and a second C-section to get out yet another foot-first baby. I only had 1 out of 3 realize her head was supposed to be down. The other two liked kicking my bladder and sciatic nerve for four months straight. Piece. of. cake. I don't know.... equating high school-level homeschooling to labor.... somehow.... :leaving:

Galen and the Gateway to Medicine (Jeanne Bendick) Herodotus and the Road to History (Jeanne Bendick) Black Ships Before Troy: The Story of The Iliad (Rosemary Sutcliff) -- or Padraic Colum's version The Wanderings of Odysseus: The Story of The Odyssey (Rosemary Sutcliff) Twice Freed (Patricia Saint John) God King: A Story in the Days of King Hezekiah (Joanne Williamson) Hittite Warrior (Joanne Williamson)

Link, pretty please?

:001_wub: Another kindred spirit. Funny story about this -- When our twins were born, there was a nurse at the hospital who suggested we put nail polish on one of the twin's big toes, so we could tell them apart. Well, I didn't want to do that, so instead we just color-coded their socks! One day when they were still just a few weeks old, my husband was bragging about how he could always tell them apart, blah blah blah. He went out of the room, and quick as a flash, I changed their outfits and socks! When he came back in, he was calling Squeaky "Squishy" and Squishy "Squeaky." We had a good laugh out of that. I love color-coding my kids, it just makes so much that much simpler. It helps that they all like "their" colors. As you can see from my signature line, oldest is purple, then green and red (or pink) for the twins. Every now and then they mix it up, and I am left like this: :blink: I still can't wrap my head around them switching colors. "You mean you have a purple bath towel? Aren't you green?" Proceed with caution, Monica, or you will start to think of your children as their colors. :biggrinjester:

Well, I originally wasn't going to use Phonetic Zoo with any of the girls, but I changed my mind. The oldest (6th) was going to "done" with spelling, while the twins (4th) were going to use the spelling in CLE Language Arts. Then I looked at the CLE spelling and thought about the fact that I already have all three levels of Phonetic Zoo, and why not use them? Oldest on C, twins on A. Duh. Phonetic Zoo takes spelling almost entirely off my plate, and the girls will enjoy having yet one more independent piece. So, the only thing I needed to purchase was two sets of little zoo cards for the twins. $10. That's my impulse buy limit, LOL.