Hi. I am looking for input. Earlier I posted that my D, age 17, is now being home-schooled due to illness. In high-school she finished the first semester of Algebra 2 with a B+. She began using Teaching Textbooks to complete Semester 2. (but really, it doesn't matter what text she is using, at this point....) Anyway: it has been only a week into TT and D began at chapter 4, early on in the book, to do a refresher. She took a Chapter Test and she scored a 13 out of 25 wrong on "easy stuff" that she says she has known since middle school. Scientific notation, dividing fractional algebraic expressions, etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg. I have known, all along, that there are some gaps in my daughter's education. In 6th grade she was out sick from p/s for 6 months, September through February, having only a 2x weekly tutor from the public school come to our house and try to keep D current as much has possible. In 7th grade she took 7th grade math. In 8th grade she was pushed into Algebra, skipping Pre-Algebra. She got a B in Algebra but hubby and I felt that she didn't know her material, so we had her re-do Algebra in 9th grade. This time she got a C. In 10th grade she took Geometry and got a C. In 11th, thus far, a B+. Here is our dilemma: D is adamant that she is doing "okay and she doesn't need anything more than to just to memorize the formulas enough to get by. Her SAT (taken in September at age 16 when she first began Algebra 2) was a 500, unfortunately high enough so that she can go right into College Algebra. Her IQ, in comparison, is 140 English (genius) and 144 Math (genius). I sense that D can do the monkey see, monkey do of math: she memorizes how a problem is done and copies it, and she can test ok (enough to satisfy her without having to do a lot of work),but in terms of understanding? Forget it. I would like to pull her all the way back to middle school and have her start all over again. [she had a friend who was doing just that, she was in AP Calculus and she ended up going to Sylvan 4x a week to learn how to do fractions and percentages correctly, etc...] I have explained to D that when she goes into College Algebra she will be expected to do the work of Algebra 2 and Pre-Calc and she will have to do it in half a year...and does she want to be miserable that half a year? My words fall on deaf ears. I am prepared to do battle, because that is what will happen. I want to find the best way to re-train her mind so she can do math conceptually. Typical texts will not help. I was wondering if Singpaore Math will help her do math, Asian style. I have read that the technique teaches the student to see math in a different way, more like a manipulative (mass) methodology. Also I was considering having her read Math Doesn't Suck and Kick My Math to learn how to see math in a different way. I am at a loss. I tried her on manipulative in 3rd grade when she was having troubles with fractions (her teacher had a nervous breakdown mid-year and the sub who came in was to a math teacher, couldn't teach it) but D never mastered the manipulatives....don't know why, she is such a visual girl with OCD tendencies. She is turned off by female voices. She is easily frustrated because of her high IQ and inherent laziness (if it comes easily fine but otherwise, forget it) Please, any and all suggestions!

Yes, and D scored something like a 227 out of 306 or something, intermediate algebra. It was accurate in showing her weak areas. And great point about practicing simple arithmetic skills, because I know for a fact that my girl cannot do simple decimals (10%, 20%) in her head...forget trying to figure a tip in a cafe! We are reviewing TT on a trial right now. What prompted this is an editorial on the Math Mammoth boards: it made me re-think the whole concept of how to learn math, including the higher maths. My concern is the overall approach to math, regardless of whether it is TT, LOF, Saxon, or whatever...this is where I need clarificaiton on what Singpaore Math is (the methodology) and what it is not. TT has a very in-depth explanatory approach, but nevertheless, is the methodology to teaching math really any different than any other US source? With MUC it was really cool (for me) because when I started using the manipulatives, all these lightbulbs went off in my head, and I could see how the abacus system in China worked...base systems that could be observed and, well, manipulated. As an adult I felt, intuitively, that MUC gave me a connection between what was real and what was abstract, and conceptually I would be able to transfer material things into ideas. For my daughter, though, who relies entirely too much on (selective) memory...well, memory doesn't cut it when you get into higher levels of math. Witness my husband and D's boyfriend: neither of them could do anything more than the first step of the word problem. No fault of TT: it is the way we in America approach math. So no, I am not dissatisfied with TT, I am just wondering if it is "more of the same" (though with a kindlier approach) US math. Likewise, I am wondering if Singapore Math is so much different and the pedagogy behind it.

Hi, I'm new here and looking for insight. We pulled our D out of ps and she was halfway through Algebra 2. September 2009 she was 16.5, 1 month into Algebra 2, and her SAT score was 500...good for some, but with an IQ over 140+ , an SAT score of 500 shows a lack of something and and she knows it. For a variety of reasons her math scores do not reflect her abilities. She has had some bad math teachers, bad math textbooks, bad health, bad attitude, and an apathetic high school experience. Anyway: After much research I ordered TT (through Pre-Calc) for her, thinking that the program would fill in any missing gaps and bring her up to speed. This past week she has tried it. She likes the pace and the "man's nice voice". However, her mindset is like that of many other ps students: rush through, get a good grade, move on as fast as possible to get this over with. I am trying to have her understand that if she does this right, and takes her time and learns this information--both current and whatever she missed way back in pre-algebra--the RIGHT way, then the payoff will be greater: if she scores a 680 or higher on her SAT she will be exempt from College Algebra (essentially a repeat of Algebra 2 hs level) or she will be able to CLEP the College Algebra and College Mathemtics tests. At the very worst, having to take College Algebra will be a breeze, if she is well-prepared. Last night I gave my husband (a chemistry professor) and my daughter's boyfriend (a pre-med student) an Algebra 1 problem I found in the TT. Here it is: Mr. Cash invested $80,000 in various stocks and bonds. He earned a 7% dividend on his stocks and 5% interest on his bonds, for a one year profit (from both stocks and bonds) of $4,900. How much did Mr. Cash invest in bonds? After 45 minutes my husband became irritable and gave up trying to solve this. After a 5 minute attempt my d's bf announced "there is no solution". This morning I awoke to an email from my husband with the incorrect answer. Now, this is not a hard problem. Yet here we have 2 educated individuals, both math whizzes, and neither could master a simple algebra word problem. Nor, for that matter, can I...I watched the explanatory video 3x and "got" the way it was done, but that was it. I can't do another, similar problem without assistance...the only way I can do this type of problem is to draw a picture! And my daughter? She just skips over these, figuring that if there are 10 problems, and only 1 word problem, she can get the other 9 problems right and score a 90. This tells me something is wrong with the way we teach math in the US. While perusing other material I came across the methodology behind Singapore Math. I agree with the concepts: it is better to master fewer concepts than have a superficial knowledge of many bits and pieces (the US method). Also, it seems to stress a different way of "looking at" math. Questions: 1) Can I start D off at Singapore Math at a primary school level to "get her brain thinking that way"? (She'll hate me!). 2) Is Singapore Math really that different a perspective or is it just more repetition? Meaning, doing 50 word problems (instead of one) until you memorize the process. Is it like Math-U-See, which I had her try in elementary school--I loved it but she hated it. 3) Or is it actually UNDERSTANDING the process of interpreting a word problem? 4) Is it literally a whole 'nother mindset, seeing math as more concrete than abstract? (which would work wonders for me!) 5) Is there a better way that is NOT Singapore Math? 6) Can I mix the Singapore Math with TT? Are they diametrically opposed? Thank you so much for your help!

Well, hope I cna help (somewhat). From age 5 to age 8 my D was homeschooled in a small group, we paid a tutor to teach all 6 children from different families. We lived on a n island and the public education wasn't great. Our D excelled, we had her tested (gifted) and once a week she broke from the homeschool to go to ps for the afternoon and mix with other gifted students. It was okay for her but she liked her homeschool group best, the children were all from very similar families. Then we moved to the mainland and our D went into public school, gifted program. She was okay with it in the younger grades but by middle school she was asking to be homeschooled again, she was having anxiety attacks. My hubby was adamant and said no, so D stayed in ps. She did okay there, socially, but her grades slipped and although she is a very bright girl (IQ 140+) she tried so hard to fit in...even her teachers told her that she was such a different child she may find the ps high school a difficult fit. In h/s we put her into a 100% gifted school, it is public, and D hated it. It is really a pure college prep school with lots and lots of academic busywork and no creative thought: veyr anxeity-producing for D. So D asked to be transferred to regular ps, some of her friends were there. Well, it has been a rocky 3 years in ps to say the least--D hated it so much that she doubled up on her classes to graduate a year early!--but by Christmas D came down with 2 long-term illnesses simultaneously and we were forced to make a decision 1) let D remain enrolled in the ps school system but have a home tutor (form the school board) work with her while she is out of school, which would delay her graduation another year [she would graduate on time vs. a year early, as planned] or 2) homeschool her ourself. SHE chose the latter. D could do much better at home, in less time, with fewer distractions. Much of ps is busy work. Also, another thing is that she was in ps taking Algebra 2 and we realized it was the very same material being taught in College Algebra at the local CC. So we said to ourselves, why waste a year of doing the same thing twice--and be unprepared from the ps Algebra (most kids need remedial math at the cc). Additionally, our D took her SAT at age 16 and she scored very high, especially in English (a 710/690). Her high school went and enrolled her in a DE English Class to cover ENC1101. Come to find out, the state unversity she is applying to (and many of our state universities) exempt their Frehsman from ENC1101 if they score higher than a 650 in critical reading, which our D did. So again, the ps was having her take an unnecessary (duplicatate) course just to fulfill a certain number of X graduation requirements. Also, our D was trying to advance in Spanish (we travel frequently to Latin countries and she has a good knowledge of the language). She was put into Spanish 3 at hs and found it was nothing more than a repeat of Spanish 2, she was bored to tears, worksheets and more worksheets. She went into Spanish 4 but there she learned she should be in Intermediate Spanish at the local cc. Her ps would not let her take it or get credit for it, they had a certain number of electives requirements (mass media, board games, etc) that she absolutely had to take at her school to graduate, an Intermediate College Spanish Class wasn't "good enough". So by this time D was just marking time to get enough credits to graduate. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) she became ill. She is much happier at home, she is learning more (although we are still working on the math issue) and she is less stressed. Also, she drives now and my hubby doesn't worry about the homeschooling interfering with her social life...not that she has much time for one, what with her homeschool stuff, her hobbies and interests, her exercise (she goes to the gym everyday for 45 minutes) and her boyfriend. Hope this helps!

Thanks, all. Her boyfriend is taking College Algebra at the local community college and he is a very nice math geek who isn't the most motivated person I've met. He said the last 2 weeks of his college algebra class (aka MAC1105) they covered topics he had not learned in Algebra 2 at high school...I guess this is where the TT Pre-Calc comes into play??? Today D took the ALEKS assessment test and she rated appx 2/3 through (237 out of 309, or something like that) Intermediate Math, which is a college-level, elective college-credit course preceding College Algebra (doesn't fulfill math credit, but does garner 3 general credits). I believe it is comparable to TT Algebra 2?? Correct me if I am wrong. Tonight D took another look through the TT textbook and went over more of the CD lectures. She is absolutely adamant that her progress--at public school last semester--ended at where TT picks up at chapter 4. There are 15 chapters in TT Algebra 2 you have an idea of where D's class at public school was, midyear--less than 1/3 of the way through TT Algebra 2!!!!. I feel that right now, the most important consideration is my daughter's relationship with her "instructor", and if it takes a "man with a nice voice" to help her overcome her math phobia, then, that's what it takes. My D's education in math has been truly hit-or-miss since 6th grade, and it can't harm her at all to feel confident and comfortable about a firm math foundation. I would rather that she be a bit behind her peers and thoroughly "know her stuff' than be among the 66% of students who, though they were honor students in high school, end up taking remedial math in college.

i'm a newbie here, hello. Had to pull my daughter (17) out of school for health reasons and, after a 2-month reprieve, she is finally able to get back to work (somewhat) and we are homeschooling. (She loves it--says she is learning more, faster, than she ever did at ps) The clincher here is Algebra 2. She is an overly-sensitive, gifted girl (with some audio/visual issues) who has a high (140+) IQ in math, but over the years the ps system has taken its toll on her and now she is mathphobic. I am finding out how little my daughter learned, despite high grades. She hasn't had a good math teacher since 7th grade and this has affected her learning. Most importantly, she has lost faith in herself and her abilities. I have asked D to sit down and demo many of the courses I think she would like best--Thinkwell, Chalk Dust, Saxon Teacher, Kinetic, ALEKS, LOF, VideoText, Teaching Textbooks, etc etc etc. She LOVED Teaching Textbooks--"no distractions, the man's voice is nice, and it is absolutely perfect for my learning style"--tolerated ALEKS, and thumbs-downed the remainder of them. While in public school in December my D finished out the first semester of Algebra 2 with an A. Now, as she is browsing through TT, she sees that she is "only" up to Chapter 4 in TT, and she is realizing how very little material they covered in public school. As a "consolation", her boyfriend, who is a freshman at the local college, just completed his College Algebra course, and he looked over the Teaching Textbook Algebra 2 book and he said it is identical, in coverage, to what he just completed in his College Algebra course! So now D wants to continue with TT (we have it here at home on a trial basis) so she can go on and CLEP the College Algebra test. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Any suggestions? D is not going into the math/science area and has no interest in those fields. Thanks!