I should add that we also plan on offering extensive support as we are able. Absolutely it is about attitude and entitlement. I've seen it go the right way, with adult children receiving *substantial* to complete support from parents and extended family and accepting with gratitude and grace. In the few cases (observed over a lifetime) it was temporary and the 'kids' were working hard toward self reliance or specific goal. Extended families are a beautiful thing largely under appreciated here in the US, IMO. I hope my kids don't need me when they are grown, but also hope they do. OP, it would be different if she came to you with a humble and grateful heart, wouldn't it? Is this a case where it would help to sit down and translate the money into hours SHE would have to work at her current job? Remind her that those are hours she will have to work to pay back loans later? Gardenmom: I love that your ds moved in with your dd. I've encouraged my kids to consider leapfrog supporting each other through college to avoid debt and still have some of the pricier places as options.

I think having friends like this are the biggest part of the problem. My sister went through a change to total entitlement when she found herself surrounded by people with such family support. Some families do this and provide quite a bit of support for adult children. I will say that I have rarely seen it without strings attached. If your dd can find more friends with a mindset of self sufficiency and sacrifice she will probably change her perspective.

I have some nutty relatives, but this is a whole different level. Is there any way at all you can get the kids? Maybe have a Disney vacation or cruise or once in a lifetime activity, then sell it as a chance for the couple to have the end times together? Adults make their own choices, but how horribly scary leaving the kids wih someone in such a mindset. I also think the school should know. Someone in the office needs to see the link to the Amazon book. Our criminal SO neighbor's second cluster of victims after his first prison term were from little league, which he was coaching. Dangerous, manipulative people feel no obligation to tell the truth or follow the law. What if bil gets new guns? What if he does his students what he decides is a favor and shoots them to spare them the apocalypse? I have never personally known someone like this, but from the description can imagine him doing something bad even if not on such a scale.

The recap: We signed a lease on a new place, but quickly wondered what kind of mess we walked into. The landlords live across the street. The agent swears they are super nice. But.... They said they were replacing carpet before the lease start and did not, leaving behind carpet with dog hair, pieces of plastic/glass. There was hair in two separate bathroom drains. I paid a cleaning team to go over the place and sanitize. The agent asked us to pay for the cleaners out of pocket and not tell the landlords because it would be distressing. When Dh told the landlords about our hiring cleaners and the problems, they expressed happiness that we are clean people??? There's more. Ok. They're slum lords, I'm thinking. I did document. We went out of town for over a week, approving the landlords to come back to fix broken blinds, refrigerator while we're gone and tend the yard. We get back and there's a kitchen ceiling light tile - the large ~2x4' kind - on the floor in the kitchen! There's a burned out electrical socket (as in brown scorched and slightly melted) not fixed. The blinds are not fixed. The refrigerator makes weird noises. I sent him an email. But then... while we're at the house, the landlord brings his son's large German shepherd into our fully gated back yard!! We specifically got in writing that the dog wouldn't be around because it had lived here before and I wanted to avoid territorial issues since I have a 1 yo!! Not only that, but when I confronted LL he was rude and unapologetic. He said he thought we were gone. Wait?! So it's ok as long as I don't find out about the lie? I told him we were ending the lease. This hassle is the last thing I need, yet I am grateful to escape a bad situation after only two weeks. Lesson learned: when that hinky meter starts dinging... RUN! And no, all promises aside, I have no idea why he was walking the dog in our yard when he has his own across the street.

This is still bothering me. I suppose I could see my own kids caught up in some kind of mess like this and getting completely traumatized. These are academically gifted kids. The oldest deferred acceptance to a math program at Stanford to wait until his sibling could go too. They are probably extremely sensitive, especially to justice. I suspect this case is very close to home for this judge. The only other explanation is that she abuses power and is verbally abusive on a regular basis. Someone like that should not be in a position of power. She insults the kids, not just by comparing them to Manson's cult, but also by telling the oldest (paraphrasing) that she hears he's smart but doubts it. She cuts him off when he is clearly trying to understand what is happening. It's incredibly painful to read. The 'kid' is 15. There is a petition to remove the judge from office. Maybe it is time for her to give up power like her husband did. These kids deserve a fresh start with the legal system that does not include her, at the very least. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/remove-judge-lisa-o-gorcyca-from-office

I have had my older kids at each new sibling's US. It worked out, but then I had no other options. I brought books and games. I also lucked out with chatty sonographers. If there is a problem the sonographer is not suposed to say, but should get the doctor to speak with you. You will have two extra adults with you! Someone can take the kids out for a snack. They can bring the kids in whenever you feel comfortable.

Whenever giving pain meds over the span of more than a day I like to write down times administered. Also, if he hasn't had the medications (like codeine) before keep an eye out for allergic reaction.

Yes. Of course there's much more to this story and extraordinary situations can call for extraordinary solutions. I would think actions apeak louder than words in a case like this. The kids don't want to hear anything their dad has to say. But there is value in seeing proof that he actually cares. They can sit in the car and he can sit outside of the car. It seems to me that doing that once a week would improve their relationship far more than locking up the kids away from their mom and each other.

And because I have insomnia... Further reading about how the prosecutors got together shows they won't be getting any parent of the year awards. Just maybe also have a personal stake in this issue, as in she probably identifies with the dad. Interviews show a couple of fairly impassioned prosecutors. I hope she makes this situation right. Not even letting the kids see each other is IMO actually in the cruel and unusual realm. They may end up needing more therapy as a result of this judge's actions than from their home situation.

If a hospital setting is appealing, there are good jobs to be found as radiology tech or surgical tech. They are 2 year training programs. Medical coders are always in demand. I'm not sure how long the cert takes, but I think it's only 1-2 years. Have you considered substitute teaching? I know a couple of people who freelance edit. It seems to lack some security, but gives the opportunity to work as much as is desired. Kind of. In one case the person I know doesn't want to risk losing a good client so won't turn down any projects.

I apologize if this was already talked about. I looked up the last name of the judge and found this: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/06/01/wendrow-julian-thal-facilitated-communication-oakland-county-dave-gorcyca/28320065/ The judge's husband (former DA) lost a huge lawsuit for accusing a father of rape of the man's own autistic daughter. It was found to be baseless. The father was imprisoned. Sounds to me like this couple has some serious, serious issues. He has since left his position. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/07/09/michigan-judge-bullies-children-in-open-court-for-refusing-to-see-their-dad/ Court mandated family counseling seems entirely appropriate. What's happening is craziness. Edited: fixed autocorrect corrections. Adding that it looks like the DA already had stepped down before the lawsuit.

<brief interruption-sorry> Will one of you please pm the location of this pool?! We love the KCLS!!!

Mrs. W, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. i think it is worth listening to the advice of women who have been through this or watched loved ones go through it. I want to offer hugs and aknowledgement that the reality of implementing this stuff is hard. Things don't go as planned. The first counselor or two might be worthless. Same as with lawyers. It's probably impossible for you to turn off the grief and fear. I do think it would help for you to reframe how you see the situation and get angry. As for reconciliation... your best chance for making it work out is, ironically, to do the same thing you would if divorcing. Rediscover you. Be strong and find confidence in making a life for yourself that is not based around your Dh. Of course it's hard. One quick cautionary tale. When my parents divorced they both snatched and hid every penny they could from each other. They undermined each other financially until there was nothing left. If at all possible, open accounts for your children and sock away money that neither parent can touch. College savings account? Maybe a trust even? Thinking of you. Edited: removed personal distracting info

Ds bought a basic old school kindle from Amazon. It stopped working after ~6-7 months. No battery issues. It just froze up. He found it didn't support the bulk of books he wanted anyway. He ended up taking over dh's iPad and is one of the library's best customers.

I'm updating because I like to know what happened when I read other people's threads.â˜ºï¸ I'm definitely not seeking legal advice, here or elsewhere, because it isn't necessary. We have clear conditions for breaking the lease. We are on the hook for rent until another renter is approved and for costs associated with finding a new tenant. If I advertised on Craigslist there would be a line of people within an hour. We offered well beyond that to break the lease in part to gauge the situation. Getting a new tenant in here would have cost us less than the cleaners. I am genuinely confused about the weirdness level of this situation. This year has messed with my head and radar. WTMF has a nice cross section of folks with a variety of perspectives. The neighborhood is amazing. There are kids of all ages, a homeschooling teen across the street, over-educated parents, international flair, close to parks, all on a cul-du-sac at the end of a no outlet neighborhood (ie: no thru way so no crazy drivers other than those that might live here). It's quiet aside from the kids and birds. The next door neighbor, who I met yesterday, had a dad who taught piano out of their house. We do a lot of music playing. Having an enthusiastic neighbor is a huge plus. We hired a professional cleaning team. They did a thorough job and the place is now sanitary. I dropped the painting issue because a once over with a washcloth removed a lot of the stuff stuck on the walls. I have documented the chips. It was more time, money and effort than we wanted to put into this move. We also decided to let the dust settle, but before the end of the month we'll sit down with the landlords and talk about it. There's something very off about the way the agent functioned. I'm not sure everything she did was legal. She only handles the leasing. The landlords personally manage. So wish us luck. It's been a tough year. We've been tossed around a bit and had more than our share of stressors. It would sure be nice to have smooth sailing. At least we put a lot of thought and planning into how to make that happen so it would be nice to have it work out.

Eaglei, I'm so sorry.

-The condition was as of our lease start date. -We are not inclined to look to a lawyer as a first action. We tend to believe in the goodness of people until proven otherwise. I called the agent early this morning and had a lengthy conversation about these issues. She indicated that the house is in reasonable condition, although she agreed that hair in the shower drain was gross. She said she knew that they did the steam cleaning and that the people who did it are obligated to return and redo if the job isn't satisfactory. She agreed to have me document in writing and pictures the move in condition of the house. She also assured me that the landlords are great people. Apparently the wife is the one who usually handles things, is meticulous and the businessperson. The husband is retired, bored and a sweet old guy who doesn't hear well, per agent's description. The agent told me the wife would be horrified at the condition, but had an accident recently and is bedridden with a bad back. The husband is trying to be helpful and needs clear communication on boundaries and expectations. I told the agent we would need to have the place professionally cleaned, to which she asked if we could handle that ourselves. She also asked us to keep these issues documented between us. She said the landlords would be saddened and devastated at our complaints. Ok, a little weird, but I felt she was speaking from the heart. I mentioned the carpet to the landlord- the husband- when he was in the yard and he said he would vacuum the whole place. I gave her an easy out. I told her (agent) that we would eat a couple months of costs, not occupy the house and knew she could easily find new tenants. I made it clear we would make it profitable and easy for them to get out of this year's lease. The agent assured me that she felt this was a good fit and that the landlords were truly good people. So, it's wierd and protective of her to ask us to eat the cleaning costs (except the steam cleaning) but turn down two months free rent for them. Given the agent's response and the market conditions we will move forward with extensive documentation. Then we'll have the place cleaned before moving in. It's more hassle than we wanted, but I am getting the impression that our expectations are higher than many. I hope this is the right move.

To clarify: the SO moved in with his family next to the house we *own.* The SO is a bad, bad dude. We are moving to be away from him. The new rental house is in an awesome and safe neighborhood. As long as we're moving, why not move where we really want to live? Selling and buying is not, IMO, easy.

The flip side of this is that we were lucky to even get the house. Places here really are rented within minutes to hours becoming available. It's a good place to live. For the same price we will be heading to a tiny apartment most likely if we give this place up. Basically the landlords can get away with this. Nothing we say or do will harm the agent's reputation. This place is a good deal for this area. The neighborhood is great for kids. The location is safe and convenient. The landlords have lived in their house for decades. The rental was purchased for income about a decade ago. The rental listing photos were from when they bought it, before it fell into disrepair. I commented on that to the agent when we first saw the house. She said nothing.

The lease was signed remotely. We saw the condition when we picked up keys. I was foolish and didn't walk through because I had all four kids with me and we had come from 1.5 hrs of music lesson. They were all eager to move around. One is a baby. I screwed up. I know that. I'm trying to fix it without making bigger mess of things. Nothing about the painting or cleaning was put in writing. We are also landlords. We have had excellent tenants and wonderful verbal agreements. Granted, we're good people and make the same assumption about others. I think there are so many red flags here.

Techwife, we own our home. We drove out to take possession of the new leased house. We are in the middle of camps, performances etc so we brought sleeping bags and planned on staying only a couple of days anyway. We planned on moving stuff this coming week. We aren't fully moving in until fall. Having our own home gives us the luxury of this timeline. The landlords and agent knew this. We even told them to take their time and that they could paint in July when we officially started the lease. They made it clear when we picked up keys that they consider the house ready. We probably don't need a lawyer involved. We can keep the lease and there is a provision to break it that involves paying until a new tenant is found. The market is super hot and that will not be an issue. This has been a stressful year. It will be a few months before other stresses are lessened. I'm worried about adding to our problems by getting into a messy living situation with this new place. The money we lose from two months is nothing compared to what we might lose from being trapped in a bad situation.

We can't live with our criminal neighbor next door (level 3 SO) and feel a move is necessary. We recently signed a lease on a house elsewhere in a hot market. The agent showing the house only showed it for 30 minutes and we were one of 5 applicants who submitted during the showing. We got the place, learned that the landlords live across the street and met the landlords. They were apologetic for the condition of the house, told us it would be painted and carpet cleaned. Their son and his German shepherd were the prior occupants along with the son's part time/custody older teens. The place was pretty dirty at the showing. I arrived at the house on the move in date with my 4 kids. Only the living room was painted. The bedroom walls were still scuffed and had chips. The carpet was not clean. They told me it was steam cleaned, but we found fragments of plastic/glass like from a colored light bulb or ornament, dog hair, general stuff in the carpet. The vinyl in the kitchen looked clean, but when one of the kids dropped something and I wiped it up with a paper towel a dirt layer came up too. Ew. We stayed overnight, discovering some of these things by morning. The shower drain had a bunch of hair stuck in it. The curtain rod was drooping on one side. Three sets of blinds didn't work for various reasons. Screens have holes. Part of the refrigerator is still waiting to be replaced. Additionally, the landlord hung around puttering in the yard and asked if he could come back to do more yardwork later. The lease calls for them to mow, but I definitely sensed some boundary overstepping right off the bat. The lawn was dead anyway. My oldest son tried to water, but found that the hose was cracked. We stayed one night and left. I already signed. We're willing to take a loss to get out of this place before being stuck with slum lords if that's the best plan. I'm wondering what people think is reasonable to say to the agent/landlords. Dh says he'll offer two months rent for them to find another tenant. Remember that this is a hot market and they will probably find someone else immediately. How should we word it? We still have our home and will need to start looking again. Are we fools to think we'll find better in a crazy market? We do have a couple of months to spare even though living with the creep next door is stressful. Or should we just get some professional cleaners in and make it work? If we do that we should document all of the mess, right? The weirdest part is that the lease calls for me to vacuum daily. I'm genuinely at a loss as to what to do. What would you do and how?

I have seen cocoa kept in a large crockpot. It was less messy than using packets.

I get it as a non-cryer. You have plenty to complain about and reason to cry. You can still look at the positives- with that and a sense of humor you can get through anything. I hope today was easier.

Was this online or text? intro or intermed? If you don't want to write your own test could you use the 'do you need this' from the classes on their website?